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Cracker Jax
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Posted: Mar 12th, 2007 08:15 pm |
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I just wanted to interject that Ryan Seals has written an article about BS's letter to the PartF people....
http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070312/NEWSREC0112/303120004/1058/NEWSREC0112
Thanks Ryan!
Now back to business......
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: Mar 12th, 2007 08:46 pm |
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happycamper wrote: You would be surprised at the number of people out here that do not even know the park has opened.
I'm not surprised at all happycamper. I met someone just the other day who didn't know about the park and I jokingly asked them if they'd been living under a rock or something. 
It is our duty as citizens, no matter what side of the fence we side on, to encourage others to pick up a paper once in a while and learn something about what is going on in the community...
You can't blame those who are busy volunteering in the community on a project for the past 8-9 years with no dissention, for not wanting to throw up their hands in defeat.
Surely you must see how frustrating it is for the people who have worked all these years on seeing the park vision become a reality, to hear the people who don't care enough to learn what's going on, until somebody screams "your taxes are being spent and are going to be raised at any moment!" at them and gets them all in a dither so that they feel compelled to jump in at the eleventh hour and say "stop!"
You said that you aren't opposed to a truck or athletic fields. I think that's great. What about at least 800 somebodys out there who would like to have a park?
I wonder. Do you have a mental picture of what the proposed amphitheater will look like? I'd seriously like to know what folks who don't come to the meetings, don't go to town hall and see the drawings and are only listening to the propaganda floating around out there think the amphitheater is going to be like.
Ms. Dunham would have you believe that it is a 4 million dollar complex that will impose a hardship on the infrastructure of our community. It is in fact a couple of levels of grassy areas where scout troops, classrooms and citizens can gather for group events. You're gonna even have to provide your own chair or blanket. The 4 mil wouldn't cover chairs.
The amphitheater is not going to be a tax burden as they would have you believe.
Are you aware happycamper that the 500,000 grant money that was being applied for was a "rebate" of taxes that you have paid in already?
Your tax money that will most likely go to another community.
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StewartM
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Posted: Mar 12th, 2007 09:03 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
the 500,000 grant money that was being applied for was a "rebate" of taxes that you have paid in already?
Your tax money that will most likely go to another community.
Why would you want another Town to get your Tax Dollars.....
BS and Mom is trying to give your Summerfield money to another Town....
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FatPappy
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Posted: Mar 12th, 2007 10:35 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
The amphitheater is not going to be a tax burden as they would have you believe.
Very good post, Crackah. You made some excellent points.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 12:59 am |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Are you aware happycamper that the 500,000 grant money that was being applied for was a "rebate" of taxes that you have paid in already?
Your tax money that will most likely go to another community.
Please explain how state grant funding is an income tax rebate from Summerfield taxpayers?
I think if you will check your FACTS you will discover that grants from the State of North Carolina are derived from revenue sources from taxes paid by all residents throughout the State of North Carolina including all 100 counties. Please correct me if I am wrong, but a $500,000.00 grant from the State of North Carolina IS NOT a $500,000.00 tax rebate to Summerfield which was paid into the State of North Carolina by Summerfield citizens.
I also think some of you are playing foot loose and fancy free with your FACTS in order to deceive and obfuscate the issue that real property taxes on Summerfield taxpayers and land owners WILL be used to help pay for any proposed park or any other local government services.
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Baseball Buddy
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 01:05 am |
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PartF Grants are not just given out free will. They are limited. They are our past tax dollars that we have already paid. Please correct me if I am wrong.There will be no tax increase to receive the PartF Grant. Who ever said that would happen is using a scare tactic to cause a knee jerk reaction from people who just are not educated about the proper facts.
Summerfield has spent $20k that was voted on and passed by the council to move forward with the PartF grant aplication. To send out kill letters at the last min. is wasting $20k in Summerfield's tax dollars. So, who is wasting your tax dollars now?
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 01:11 am |
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Summerfield has spent $20k that was voted on and passed by the council to move forward with the PartF grant aplication. To send out kill letters at the last min. is wasting $20k in Summerfield's tax dollars. So, who is wasting your tax dollars now?
Given what you got for $20K is a waste for what you got, which is an unscientific survey which would not pass muster with any legitimate pollster and which by the very nature of the questions asked and the questions not asked, led to the conclusions which were intended all along by the initiators. Finally, this 'survey' didn't even attempt to contact nor solicit the very most affected citizens of Summerfield, the real property owners.
I could outline dozens of reasons this survey isn't and wasn't worth the paper it is printed on if necessary, and I also know quite well several reputable publicly recognized pollsters (both nationally and regionally) and polling experts who would agree with me.
Again, what you're holding out to be a poll of citizens attitudes is unscientific and the margin of error in sampling is probably greater than 100%.
For less than half of the $20,000.00 which Summerfield has spent, you actually could have gotten a genuine and genuinely reflective and truly accurate snapshot of resident attitudes which would have actually been quite meaningful. In other words, a real poll of citizen attitudes.
Last edited on Mar 13th, 2007 01:23 am by Jim Flynt
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macca
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 01:12 am |
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| Did I hear that someone killed the application last year, before it ever got this far? Or did something to prevent the town from applying for this same grant?
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Baseball Buddy
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 01:19 am |
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| Jim are you a expert in this field? The people that Summerfield hired are. That is what they do for many cities and towns. I believe and most of the heavy hitting pollsters I have spoken to feel the same, I guess it just matters what circle you run in. My circle is very broad and of all walks of life from all age groups. Just remember your opinion does not count in this matter unless you are a voter in Summerfield.
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 01:32 am |
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Jim Flynt wrote: obfuscate
Do you spew spit when you say that word? I tried it and my keyboard got all slippery.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 01:37 am |
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Jim are you a expert in this field? The people that Summerfield hired are.
Glad you asked the question. While I don't consider myself an 'expert' on 'polling' per se, I have been heavily involved as either a campaign manager, political consultant, or campaign staffer for several regional and state wide political campaigns, including successful races for Governor, US Senator and US House of Representatives and NC Council of State offices. In those capacities, I have worked closely and frequently with many nationally and regionally recognized pollsters both in formulation of polls, conducting of polls and interpretation of polls. I understand well the meaning and effect of leading polls and leading questions which lead to the conclusions desired, but which reflect meaningless data and inaccurate conclusions.
Additionally, I am a Fellow of the North Carolina Institute of Political Leadership and spent a semester in residence at various locations throughout North Carolina along with 19 other Fellows studying in depth political campaign tactics, strategies, and the tools and techinques of political campaigning. We trained in political polling, in writing and conducting polls and in interpreting polls and then conducted state wide telephone political polling. Additionally, I have attended numerous leadership and leadership development courses at the Center for Creative Leadership as well as having been invited back as a speaker for other leadership courses.
I also served first as Chief Page and then, as the Administrative Assistant to the Speaker of the NC House (Speaker Earl Vaughn) in the NC General Assembly for the 2nd half of the legislative sessions, following my good friend and former UNC classmate, the former Lt. Governor of NC, Dennis Wicker, who served in the same capacity in the first half of the 1969 session. I was also selected as a member of the 1st class of Leadership Greensboro and have personally managed 28 political races, winning all but one, and the one lost by only 8 votes.
So yes, I do believe I have the political credentials and expertise to possess more than a passing knowledge of polling and proper polling techniques and methodologies.
I even have quite a few polling textbooks and handbooks laying around the house, and not even a cursory reading of any of them would confer any integrity or the propriety of generally accepted methods to the so called 'survey' which so many of you are proclaiming as reflecting accuracy of Summerfield citizen sentiment.
As I mentioned earlier, I could probably right off the top of my head outline dozens of problems with your survey in the mishandling of recognized polling techniques and methodology which led to an unscientific sampling with unacceptable margins of error. The questions asked were leading and questions which should have been asked were not asked. Finally, the survey takers can't even tell you "who" the polling sample consisted of and there would appear to be some contamination of the poll sample by those outside the personnel who were responsible for conducting this survey.
Finally, if I am to understand correctly, the so called experts that Summerfield hired to conduct this 'survey' are/were actually university personnel who's expertise is in recreation and not statistical measurement and polling. Please advise us of any polling credentials these folks may have and any recognized polling experience they have as well.
A simple reading of the actual survey used as well as the conclusions by ANY recognized polling expert or pollster (as I mentioned earlier) as well as what is an obvious statistical bias in the actual audience polled would be laughable to anyone with even a hint of real polling expertise and experience. You couldn't sell your survey or the polling techniques employed to any real pollster in America. They would laugh at you at the mere suggestion.
Last edited on Mar 13th, 2007 03:40 am by Jim Flynt
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Shamu
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 01:41 am |
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In response to BBBuddy from a few pages ago. I don't know how many times Becky Strickland has participated in town events or organizations. I don't know what that has to do with anything...so I pass.
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macca
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 01:52 am |
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| Usually town functions are a good way to mingle with people of the town, and for them to get to know their elected officials a little better. If no one recalls seeing them at events held in the town, that is just as telling as, say, folks who recall seeing Howard Coble at all kinds of events. He has a reputation for attending as many public events in the district he represents as he can.
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 02:00 am |
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macca wrote: Usually town functions are a good way to mingle with people of the town, and for them to get to know their elected officials a little better. If no one recalls seeing them at events held in the town, that is just as telling as, say, folks who recall seeing Howard Coble at all kinds of events. He has a reputation for attending as many public events in the district he represents as he can.
I agree with you that public functions are a good way for candidates and leaders to meet with voters and constituents, yet I am also mindful, that even here in Stokesdale, many of our town councilmen are rarely seen at public events other than perhaps if you visited the church they may attend.
While it is a positive thing for both candidate/leader and the public, it is not a requirement of elected officials. Most political campaigns these days are not won the old fashion way of handshaking and backslapping, but rather by way of television, radio, mass mail, email and other more cutting edge technologies which allow a candidate to leverage exposure to a greater number of voters/citizens.
I do agree with you that my friend Howard Coble does an outstanding job in getting out and mingling among people as well or better than most any other candidate I have ever met. And I say that even though Ol' Howard is a member of that other political party. I hold Howard in high regard and his first campaign for NC House many moons ago was also the impetus behind my first efforts to help a political candidate as a teenage volunteer for Howard.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 13th, 2007 02:14 am |
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Just remember your opinion does not count in this matter unless you are a voter in Summerfield.
Oh, I don't know. You know, I actually know quite a few people in Summerfield too and believe it or not, several pass through and interact with my life on a fairly regular basis. Many I have known since childhood and it is worth remembering that family, social and business connections in the Northwest area run much deeper than many may realize. So while my vote doesn't count in Summerfield (perhaps even some of the Summerfieldians votes don't count either), I do think that perhaps I might have some influence with some of your citizens and they might actually listen to my opinion, even if you elect not to or don't.
Finally, while my opinion may not count with you, I suppose I can always make my opinion more viable to others by simply sending a generous political contribution in the future to candidates in Summerfield who somewhat share my views in the hopes that such a contribution might assist them in contacting the only people who's opinion does count, the Summerfield voters.
Last edited on Mar 13th, 2007 03:18 am by Jim Flynt
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