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FatPappy
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:52 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
Minorities challenge majority decisions every day both in the courts of law and the courts of public opinion. Simply because anyone is an elected public official does not mean that person doesn't have a right to continue to lobby for and fight for the minority position in whatever manner of one's choosing.
No, not in any manner of one's choosin'. Challengin' the majority is fine, subvertin' the process behind the VOTER'S backs is not. That's not the way fer an elected official to behave if she expects people to trust her. Trust is important. The end does not justify the means.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:53 pm |
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| The Summerfield Town Council meeting is Tuesday night at 6:30 at the Community builidng which is on Center grove road behind Summerfield elementary school. There is a period at the begining that allows people to stand and speak for 5 minutes on non agenda items.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:58 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:
Minorities challenge majority decisions every day both in the courts of law and the courts of public opinion. Simply because anyone is an elected public official does not mean that person doesn't have a right to continue to lobby for and fight for the minority position in whatever manner of one's choosing.
No, not in any manner of one's choosin'. Challengin' the majority is fine, subvertin' the process behind the VOTER'S backs is not. That's not the way fer an elected official to behave if she expects people to trust her. Trust is important. The end does not justify the means.
Maybe she really is supporting a majority of Summerfield citizens who do not support town imposed property taxes and tax supported parks.
Perhaps the only real minority here are the 3 votes on Town Council which do not reflect the larger community majority viewpoint.
As far as ends and means, I think we both would agree (if we were both being intellectually honest), that it depends entirely on who's ends are being met as to whether the means are justified. The duplicity of the argument cuts both ways.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:58 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
And we both know what can happen when politics and politicians get involved. in anything...........
Jim Flynt wrote:
A political referendum is the ultimate political process in being the only one that lets the real owners of government, the citizens, have their voice and say to be heard as the final definitive word.
Which side are you arguin' here?
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:01 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: Which side are you arguin' here?
Obviously, I am arguing only for the side of the citizens and voters. I didn't known there was any other side?
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macca
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:03 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
Perhaps the only real minority here are the 3 votes on Town Council which do not reflect the larger community majority viewpoint.
If this were true, wouldn't people have come out AFTER the vote to say, "Whoa!!! This is NOT what we want! Do NOT go ahead with this application!" ??? When was this vote held? Wasn't there plenty of time for voters to come forward to stop the process if that's what they wanted?
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FatPappy
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:04 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
As far as ends and means, I think we both would agree (if we were both being intellectually honest), that it depends entirely on who's ends are being met as to whether the means are justified. The duplicity of the argument cuts both ways.
Some people think Judas Iscariot believed it was up to him to get Jesus to "do the right thing" and that's what motivated him to betray him, to force the issue. The end never justifies the means. Never.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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FatPappy
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:07 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
Obviously, I am arguing only for the side of the citizens and voters. I didn't known there was any other side?
And you're doin' that by sayin' let's settle this with a political process because the political process is not to be trusted? Interestin' ...
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:12 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: The end never justifies the means. Never.
Oh come on Pappy, you know better than that.
If the ends in World War II were to stop Hitler and his genocide, were there any means which would not have been justified in furthering those ends?
If the ends in any society are to abolish an oppressive political dictatorship, are you saying that would not justify using whatever means necessary to abolish such?
Judas Iscariot was a nice red herring though. Where did you catch that one?
Last edited on Mar 11th, 2007 04:16 pm by Jim Flynt
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:15 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:
Obviously, I am arguing only for the side of the citizens and voters. I didn't known there was any other side?
And you're doin' that by sayin' let's settle this with a political process because the political process is not to be trusted? Interestin' ...
What I said was pretty simple and clear when read in complete context: I have always believed that the voters are the ultimate and best decision makers, as they should be.
I suppose I just have more faith in the intelligence and wisdom of the voters than you do.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:16 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
If the ends in World War II were to stop Hitler and his genocide, were there any means which would not have been justified in furthering those ends?
If we killed ever'body on the planet, that would stop Hitler an' Idi Amin an' the Invisible Knights o' the Klu Klux Klan, but I don't think that noble end would justify the means.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:18 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:
If the ends in World War II were to stop Hitler and his genocide, were there any means which would not have been justified in furthering those ends?
If we killed ever'body on the planet, that would stop Hitler an' Idi Amin an' the Invisible Knights o' the Klu Klux Klan, but I don't think that noble end would justify the means.
That is called a non sequitur argument in debate Pappy, so I won't respond from my end to such tomfoolery in logic.
Let's see: You've tried the ad hominum, the red herring and now the non sequitur. What's next: the ad nauseam?
Last edited on Mar 11th, 2007 04:23 pm by Jim Flynt
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FatPappy
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:24 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
FatPappy wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:
If the ends in World War II were to stop Hitler and his genocide, were there any means which would not have been justified in furthering those ends?
If we killed ever'body on the planet, that would stop Hitler an' Idi Amin an' the Invisible Knights o' the Klu Klux Klan, but I don't think that noble end would justify the means.
That is called a non sequitur argument in debate Pappy, so I won't response from my end to such tomfoolery.
I was just answerin' yer question by showin' a extreme example that refutes it. I think Stephen Hawkin' uses that one. I'll look forward to your end respondin' on some other subject then.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:27 pm |
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I'll look forward to your end respondin' on some other subject then.
With that end in mind, I think I will take leave now and go enjoy a beautiful day outside folks. Ya'll have a great day and find something to smile about today while letting go of the small stuff.
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SaltyDog
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 04:31 pm |
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| Question - Has any individual or group been clamoring for a referendum on parks and they have been denied? If so who and when?
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