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Vicki White-Lawrence
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:15 pm |
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| In researching articles for the Northwest Observer, I've talked with people in the local and state Board of Elections offices. They certainly do not recommend putting everything before the voters. As has been said, we have a representative form of government. In addition to making the process very slow, it is expensive to hold a referendum, especially if there is not a major election to draw people out to the polls.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:21 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: I will ask you to leave out the judements on my character.
Jane, my comments had absolutely nothing to do with your character.
My point iis and was, that I simply think you are afraid to let the voters of Summerfield decide these two very important issues, for the simple reason you fear their decision. As I pointed out earlier, letting the voters decide would put to rest forever and eternally this silly debate going on in Summerfield where neither side is winning, and again as I pointed out, if you truly believe in both the rightness of your cause and the strength of your support, you should be leading the charge for letting the voters decide rather than running for cover with specious arguments.
As Robert Kennedy once said: Some men see things as they are and say why. Others see things as they never were and ask why not. Why aren't you and others on your side asking the question: Why not let the voters decide? What is your side's fear?
The only cowards in this debate are those who would fear the ultimate decision makers and real owners of government: the voters.
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"Take no prisoners"
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:27 pm |
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SaltyDog wrote: So Jim - everytime there is a split vote on the council those in the minority could and should call for and be granted a referendum? If those on the minority side want a referendum couldn't they muster up enough names on a petition to make it happen?
Salty, I am not in favor of using citizen referendums on every issue, but I do think they have a necessary place on the really important issues which are divisive to a community. And it seems to me, that parks in Summerfield and a town imposed taxation certainly rise to the level of being extremely important issues of major interest to most voters.
I do believe that you are correct, that a referendum could be initiated by either side initiating a petition, but in the instant case, it would make more sense for both sides to agree to initiatives and then the town council could place these matters on the ballot for the next scheduled election which would eliminate any costs or charges to the town (as Vicki refers to in her post).
Obviously, if I truly believed in the rightness of my idea and the strength of my support, I would elect to be the Leader for change, rather than simply a Follower.
There seems to be a lot of fear in Summerfield right now and it ain't all coming from just one side of this debate either.
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"Take no prisoners"
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macca
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:29 pm |
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If I understand this grant application process, the Town of Summerfield held hearings and gathered input from its citizens. The guidelines are very clear, and the town met them. As with any funding source, there is lots of competition for these funds. If Summerfield misses this round, it will be at least another year before they can even apply. If they wait for a referendum, this would delay it even longer. In the meantime, lost opportunities for the families and children....
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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Skiddles
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:31 pm |
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| I find it very concerning that Ms. Strickland has taken it upon herself to sabotage and be deceitful to to have what she thinks is best to happen for the citizens of Summerfield, regardless of the majority vote. This isn't right! She has had her say and her vote... you can't have your cake and eat it too.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:33 pm |
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| As far as I'm concerned, as a Summerfield resident an' voter, the decision has been made by our elected officials in a fair an' open process. The question I ask is why should we agree to let these TWO individuals, Strickland an' Dunham, put that decision aside on their own? That's not how it works.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:34 pm |
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macca wrote: If I understand this grant application process, the Town of Summerfield held hearings and gathered input from its citizens. The guidelines are very clear, and the town met them. As with any funding source, there is lots of competition for these funds.
To paraphrase what you just said in my own words: the grant application process is a political process from one end to the other. And all parts in between.
And we both know what can happen when politics and politicians get involved. in anything...........
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:37 pm |
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Ok Jim I am going to try to make my stance clear one last time then I will leave this discussion to some one else. I do not understand why you feel is necessary to assign pejorative words such as fear to my opinion. I first off offer that you have no idea how or why I arrived at my opinion. Maybe I view your solution as a direct slam against a representative form of government, maybe I as a tax payer do not want my tax money spent having to have an election everytime the council splits on the vote, maybe I understand that the majority rules and if I don't agree then I will work harder at the next election to make my views the majority. I under no circumstances "fear" the voters decision.
Having said that I will go back to the original topic which is the fact that Ms Strickland as a representative of the Summerfield Town Council went behind the backs of the other council members to thwart the Town getting a $500,00 matching grant. I view this as a flagrant abuse of the power vested in her as an elected official and if she were to do the right thing she would resign because she obviously does not understand a representative form of government. She needs to go back to being a private citizen.
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macca
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:38 pm |
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| Paraphrase all you want... I wrote what I meant to say. I don't know nuthin' 'bout no politics as it pertains to the application process ....
____________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:40 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: As far as I'm concerned, as a Summerfield resident an' voter, the decision has been made by our elected officials in a fair an' open process. The question I ask is why should we agree to let these TWO individuals, Strickland an' Dunham, put that decision aside on their own? That's not how it works.
Minorities challenge majority decisions every day both in the courts of law and the courts of public opinion. Simply because anyone is an elected public official does not mean that person doesn't have a right to continue to lobby for and fight for the minority position in whatever manner of one's choosing.
Even the 'dissenters' or minority voters on the US Supreme Court are allowed to proffer dissenting opinions to the public case.
As the old saying goes, All's fair in love and war, and as you said Pappy in describing the situation in Summerfield, let's get back to the war. There sure ain't no love lost on either side neither.
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"Take no prisoners"
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macca
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:41 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote:
I hope that there will be a lot of people coming to the Town Council meeting Tuesday night to say democracy is important. We do not want to be represented by some other form of government that takes alway the majorities rights. Come Tuesday night to Town Council and speak out against this abuse of power.
What time does that meeting begin, and where is it held?
____________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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FatPappy
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:44 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
macca wrote: If I understand this grant application process, the Town of Summerfield held hearings and gathered input from its citizens. The guidelines are very clear, and the town met them. As with any funding source, there is lots of competition for these funds.
To paraphrase what you just said in my own words: the grant application process is a political process from one end to the other. And all parts in between.
Isn't a referendum a political process?
____________________
How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:46 pm |
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| The State and PartF process tries very hard to make sure the majority of people who care are heard. There was an indepenent survey, There were meetings at churchs, associations and finally meetings with people to get their opinions. The results were over whelming positive as was the opening of phase one of the park with an estimated 800 people. If Ms Strickland has the backing of a majority then let her come forward with a legal petition and get these issues on the ballot otherwise I will continue to think the majority of the people understand the tax and want recreational areas in our town.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:46 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Ok Jim I am going to try to make my stance clear one last time then I will leave this discussion to some one else. I do not understand why you feel is necessary to assign pejorative words such as fear to my opinion.
Jane, I too am tiring of the back and forth.
My point again, was would either side fear letting the voters decide?
Obviously, as an advocate for one side of the argument, you and your 'side' of the debate were simply being asked by me, what does your side fear in letting Summerfield voters decide? Your response has been heard loud and clearly.
I think you have answered my question as best you can for the visitors and residents from Summerfield which was the original point of my post as well. So Thank you for your honest response.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Mar 11th, 2007 03:49 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:
macca wrote: If I understand this grant application process, the Town of Summerfield held hearings and gathered input from its citizens. The guidelines are very clear, and the town met them. As with any funding source, there is lots of competition for these funds.
To paraphrase what you just said in my own words: the grant application process is a political process from one end to the other. And all parts in between.
Isn't a referendum a political process?
Absolutely.
A political referendum is the ultimate political process in being the only one that lets the real owners of government, the citizens, have their voice and say to be heard as the final definitive word.
____________________
"Take no prisoners"
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