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macca
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 12:10 pm |
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| So if the ordinance is the law, what needs to happen now to make sure what it describes is enforceable?
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wepete
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 12:13 pm |
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| Election day I had a chance to speak with a long term friend who lives on Summerfield Road. He was planning on selling his house and moving to Rockingham County because he did not want to live in the "Town Core" Seems he had bought a house in a residential area and did not like the idea of being forced to give up part of his small yard for sidewalks. He hated the idea of loosing the age old stone walls and some of the trees that line the street just so he could live close to a mixed commercial use. (have you ever seen a mixed use area that did not go mostly commercial cause folks move out??) He was also concerned that the committee forcing these changes on him had members who will not be affected. (I have no idea if that is true). I don't have a dog in this fight and would support whatever the folks who live there want to do... just thought his feelings were germane to the conversation.
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macca
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 12:19 pm |
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| Good info, wepete. Thanks for sharing. Always good to hear from all sides, and that seems a valid point... Is it true that most mixed use areas eventually go mostly commercial? What about areas where apartments are over businesses, or buildings that have been commercial are converted to living space? I guess in older towns that is what happens, right?
____________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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wepete
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 12:35 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: I understand there is tremendous pressure right now on the Town Core from Commercial developers. What legal document does the Town have in place to protect those home owners from those pressures while allowing people to develop their land to its highest potential? you are right Jane... but how can we say no restaurants, fast or slow, when we strive to allow folks to develop to the highest potential and we must act like a town?. We have to remember there is no requirement for the town to provide for the highest return on a property only reasonable use. If there was such a requirement folks could build anything right smack dab next to anyone. That's why we have zoning. But in writing zoning we have to be very careful. Oak Ridge once adopted a County recommended ordinance provision that would allow a dry cleaning plant (not a store but very explosive plant) to be built next to a home with 10 or 15 foot setbacks in a certain district.
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StewartM
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 12:41 pm |
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macca wrote: So if the ordinance is the law, what needs to happen now to make sure what it describes is enforceable?
The town planner enforce the ordinance now. The council controls what is in the ordinance. The committee is only working on a plan right now. I agree with Bill the people living in the core area should come up with the plan.
Sidewalks would be built by the owner (paid for by the owner) only when they want to develop the property. Bill I would never want the rock walls to be alter in any way. This should be in the plan made by citizens in the area.
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wepete
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 01:10 pm |
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macca wrote: Is it true that most mixed use areas eventually go mostly commercial? What about areas where apartments are over businesses, or buildings that have been commercial are converted to living space? I guess in older towns that is what happens, right?
Sociology 101 teaches the normal growth pattern of cities. I don't know if you can compare most mixed use areas with the Summerfield Town Core as they are probably not analogous due to the size difference. Whatever, its not that easy of an answer. There is so much that goes into it. Size, price, convenience, commuting, tax considerations etc., ad nausea. I assume, like cities, each area has its own pattern.
I am not sure I have seen much multi-story mixed use in very small CBD's.
One thing is for certain... the TC definition seems to say "we want to convert this area to a CBD and attract folk to it." I can certainly understand the wank of folks who live there hearing how they have to change their neighborhood because someone who doesn't live there wants a town core to drive by on their way to Wal-Mart in Greensboro. Perhaps John Harman would take the project on. (He did State Street)
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macca
Member
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 01:22 pm |
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| Appreciate the different persepective.... I thought they were trying to define the town core in order to preserve it and keep it from being uncontrolled growth... to preserve what is there and make anything else that might be allowed be more compatible with what is already there....
____________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 01:53 pm |
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Now Bill you know that no plan does not guarantee these folks no change. There is already commercial development all through Summerfield Rd. With no plan what stops the people next to the post office from requesting a commercial zoning. What guidance does the council having to deny the zoning? Sorry I agree with Macca I view the Town Core plan as guidance for the Town in the future to keep the very thing you are talking about from happening. Uncontrolled growth which runs the residents out.
I am sorry that the person moved where ever because he didn't want side walks in his front yard but I think he must not have understood the Town Core plan at all if that is why he left. Never ever has the Town Core committee advocated the Town Core tear down the rock walls for sidewalks. They have discussed the possibilty of running a sied walk right along the road and other options but one of the goals of the Town Core is to protect the residents from commercial rezoning.
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donw
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 02:25 pm |
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There will be many questions by citizens who currently live in the town core area, which will create a lot of uncertainty. When a small group of people plan the future for citizens who live in the town core area - everything needs to be explained very - very well. Right now the idea of a town core sounds good, so that Summerfield can say "we created a town core".
Lets not forget that many, many people enjoy Summerfield like it is and there are many who want it to change. The bottom line is we need to ask those directly involved. Those living in the town core area. If they over rule the idea I believe we need to repect their thoughts and their investment- it is their property you are trying to change.
There is no easy answer-- But I side with those who live there and if they say no - then no it is.
As far as the rezoning goes-the council can deny this and keep it residential. PROBLEM SOLVED!
Last edited on Feb 9th, 2006 02:29 pm by donw
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 02:30 pm |
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| There have been years of monthly meetings with invitations to all the neighbors directly involved open to the public of course. The meetings are advertised in the newpaper, 2 public hearings properly advertised which were attended by several dozen people. I don't think the Town Core committee can do any more to involve the citzens. The committee has several Town Core members on it. What else can be done?
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StewartM
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2006 03:27 pm |
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Hi Don glad to see you back.....
The Town core needs to start with a smaller area. Let the owners work on their plan. We cannot just take a chance on developers to do the right thing, There must be some type of plan. Zoning does not take care of everything. This needs to protect the residents, not harm them. Remember they are the Town.....
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Hairbrush
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Posted: Feb 10th, 2006 12:26 pm |
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| Don, how do you know that the next town council won't be very commercial friendly? Without the proper plan and ordinance in place you can't depend on the fact that council will uphold the vision of the people. I would like to think that would happen, but we have already stated that everyone has a different vision. The council has already rezoned commercial for the Yost and Little property, what is to keep the next house and then the next house from zoning commercial? Not anything but the town council right now I expect. And without ordinances in place you would be hard pressed to deny the next person a commercial re-zoning when you already passed one right up the street.
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wepete
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Posted: Feb 11th, 2006 08:15 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Now Bill you know that no plan does not guarantee these folks no change.
I am not sure I have ever said that it did. Even after the flames I'd like to think I am not that stupid.
I hate that I missed the meeting from which DC forwarded me some audio. It was very interesting. There was more than 10 minutes of a lady who lives on Tannery and spoke very well about neighborhood concerns. Another real attention grabber was references to two BB memos written several months apart that were reported to say ANY plan would require water and sewer. If Bruce was right then it seems there needs to be a wheel spinning award issued here. Duh-huh!
For the history buffs... The oldest version of the LTP I have easy access to is #4 dated April 2000. It would seem reasonable to extrapolate Summerfield has discussed the TC since sometime in 1999. The concept came to Sumerfield through the vision of Michael Brown who, at the time, was our contracted Guilford County Planner and the only member of the committee with actual planning experience.
According to LTP Daft #4... " The Town Core District (TCD) is an "overlay designation" which strives to preserve the small town character of Central Summerfield and is intended to encourage residents to visit the town center. By encouraging traditional development patterns where one encounters natural and non-intrusive mixing of commerce, residential and civic uses (churches, schools, playgrounds, etc.,), the Town Core provides access for the daily needs of its residents. The diversity of the district and the integrity of the various sections that comprise the district will be important considerations in land-use planning. The overall goal of the district is preservation of the "small town" character of Summerfield."
Jane, not to pick, but isn't that saying the early intent was to keep it like it is?
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wepete
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Posted: Feb 11th, 2006 08:24 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: With no plan what stops the people next to the post office from requesting a commercial zoning. What guidance does the council having to deny the zoning? Er... not to be flippant but I'd guess that would be because of the fire station on one side and I think the other the other was already rezoned for conditional commercial use when we served together on the council. (don't bother... I know what you meant.... but why start on the premise that you want to deny?)
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Feb 11th, 2006 08:29 pm |
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| With out further clarification of the LTP that vision will not stop the two supposed commercial projects that are in the works right now. The only thing stopping the commercial development will be 5 council members and as I have said before while I think these 5 will continue with the vision what about the next council? What stops somebody from building McMansions ? Is that part of the vision? Does McDonalds fit in that vision? The vision needs to be further spelled out or we will potientially end up with something we didn't invision.
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