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donw
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Posted: Feb 13th, 2006 04:31 pm |
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Lets not forget ---- Ordinances are subject to change. Nothing is 100% sure. When new council members do get elected they will have ideas and are capable of tweeking ordinances.
Bottom line-- That is why we have elections - so we can get people who stand on principles and do what they say.
If citizens want their neighborhood changed - than they need to opproach the council requesting change or the other option is to vote for candidates who won't change their neighborhood.
Something to think about! 
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StewartM
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Posted: Feb 13th, 2006 11:23 pm |
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| Don, Citizens should always direct a plan for their neighborhood. We need Ordinances and a Town core plan to make it harder for a council to change things. We all know at any given time council can change things, at least with a plan it will show a path to travel......
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donw
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Posted: Feb 14th, 2006 12:51 pm |
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Mike,
You are right and I understand where you are coming from. I am only helping citizens understand that an ordinance is subject to change. Also I am pointing out the importance of elections and getting out to VOTE for candidates that will fight for you. 
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wepete
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Posted: Feb 14th, 2006 04:18 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote: Please stop being so negative and let's see if we can't find a solution to the problems.... YES or NO: Are you saying that a compromise between the Town Core committee and the residents is not possible???
Sorry... Was not trying to be negative. I can see how my comments might be taken that way but that was not the intent.
I agree that planning is necessary. I established the Long Term Planning Committee, Chaired the Committee that rewrote the County zoning ordinance to fit our need, Chaired an ad-hoc committee of three that took the abandoned long term plan off the shelf and wrote recommended changes to the ordinance. There is a lot more... but I think as I told Pappy I have established my dedication to planning and actually getting things done.
Planning isn't just setting a goal like "We need sidewalks." Its also asking what problems will we face if we actually build them. I don't know if there is an answer to how to build them in the residential area. It looks to my eye we would have to move a lot of front yard to build them and property tapper hills and keep them a safe distance from the road.
The most important first step of planning is a clear statement and understanding of the goal. Do we still see preserving what we have as the goal or are we looking to build a new CBD? Clearly if we build a CBD it will not be a multistory mixed use district like old Greensboro or Tate Street. Demographics have changed and are just plain different in Summerfield
Are there businesses we don't want? Jane mentioned McDonnalds but what if a local wants to build a What-a-Burger? We looked at a lot of restrictions like no drive through windows, nothing over a stated square footage. The rule of unforeseen consequences is clearly in play. We have to start with what is it about a business we don't like? Arches? Low Prices? Perhaps a archless McDees would be ok.
But to me the biggest concern is if we are going to try and change it the folks who suffer the effects must be considered. They were there first and have a lot invested. Protecting that right is THE reason we incorporated the town. What gives anyone the right to force it on them if there is not a public necessity. So is a compromise even in order? I don't know. Are we dealing with wants or needs? Thinking as I go, one answer might be to separate the district into TC-Mixed Use, TC-Residential, and TC-Commercial designations. Protect the residents and provide for the other uses nearby.
Now Pappy is insulting and attacking me but did you read his answer? I asked if he owned land in the area that was subject to increase in value. He said he did not as the question was asked. Well duh... there's a great big yes to a question such as "do you any land in whole or in part in the area?" So its not a slam or a flame. Its an attempt to find out what motivation he has if any. That's not to say its wrong. And I did think it was directed at one person.... nothing cryptic about that one.
I 've actually been mostly agreeing with Jane. Just looking for details. What I hear from folks who live there is they don't want a TC. They want it to remain residential. I am sure we can provide a TC and protections and reach an "agreeable to all" but to do so we have to know were we are going and why we are taking the trip. So we ask as many questions in advance as we can. To me that includes establishing the motivations of those most strongly for or against.
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Skiddles
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Posted: Feb 14th, 2006 06:04 pm |
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wepete wrote: The most important first step of planning is a clear statement and understanding of the goal. You are correct wepete, this should be the first step, a clear statement. What I have been hearing is possibly a problem to establish this. Is this correct? The Town Core committee will put into writing, a plan to establish the way in which the Town Core district will grow? This committee will establish guidelines to which will be, in this area. A guide or plan?
But to me the biggest concern is if we are going to try and change it the folks who suffer the effects must be considered. They were there first and have a lot invested. Protecting that right is THE reason we incorporated the town. What gives anyone the right to force it on them if there is not a public necessity.
Your concerns are heard wepete. If the folk that live in the Town Core area know these meetings involving them and their property are happening then they have a personal decision to make... do I become involve or not. I would hope that all would become involved and be proactive in establishing the "goal" and then possibly a "plan." It should be driven by them, hands down. As to the ones that do not become involved, what do you do??? How do you get the people out to help themselves, protect themselves and not surface at the 11th hour as a disruption to a fair process. Some may even think that they are being forced to change when they have had a multitude of chances to let their voices heard, but chose to do nothing??
Now Pappy is insulting and attacking me but did you read his answer? I asked if he owned land in the area that was subject to increase in value. He said he did not as the question was asked. Well duh... there's a great big yes to a question such as "do you any land in whole or in part in the area?" So its not a slam or a flame. Its an attempt to find out what motivation he has if any. That's not to say its wrong. And I did think it was directed at one person.... nothing cryptic about that one.
Wepete, as I have heard several times on this forum.... the property owners (like the folk with the rock wall) are the ones that should drive this committee. Now aren't they the land owners? Glad you aren't slamming or flaming about, because it is the landowner's motivation which will give you their opinions. It's just hard to figure out what cards everyone are holding, so why play poker if you have the town best interest at heart... and I believe you do. I 've actually been mostly agreeing with Jane. Just looking for details. What I hear from folks who live there is they don't want a TC. They want it to remain residential. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a TC help in this? I know every ordinance is subject to change, but wouldn't it give the Town Council a guide to what the TC should look like, given to them by this committee, many of the residence in the area? Trying to understand here. I am sure we can provide a TC and protections and reach an "agreeable to all" but to do so we have to know were we are going and why we are taking the trip. So we ask as many questions in advance as we can. I agree... let's look to the future wepete. Thanks for your insight Last edited on Feb 14th, 2006 06:11 pm by Skiddles
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FatPappy
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Posted: Feb 14th, 2006 09:34 pm |
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Pappy's gonna give you a "Well said, Ol' Bean," on that one, wepete. You're comin' in loud an' clear now. I'll even take you at your word that you weren't tryin' to be negative an' attack Jane an' all that an' maybe I just misunderstood what you were tryin' to say.
Anyway, I agree with the gist of what you're sayin' here. Got no argument with it. The people who live there should have the biggest say in what happens in their front yards, we need a good plan with all the holes plugged, not just a wish list, not just some romantic vision, etc. I agree.
I don't agree that I should feel the need to answer to you about any business dealin's I may or may not have. If anyone else on the forum thinks I need to explain further, then I'll reconsider. An' furthermore, I don't understand why you're questionin' my motivation to begin with. What's your motivation for that? I haven't been goin' around sayin' "We gotta have a town core now!" or anything like that. Why you keep barkin' up that tree?
What I'm strongly for is Summerfield. That's my motivation.
Wait, I do own somethin' that just went waaaaaaay up in value. Pappy's ol' huntin' dog. He don't never bark up the wrong tree!
On second thought, I couldn't sell Ol' Calhoun on Valentine's Day.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
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macca
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Posted: Feb 14th, 2006 10:51 pm |
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| It seems to me that what we are about here is just discussing things, so I don't understand why ANYONE needs to divulge ANYTHING. I mean, sometimes people just want to play the "devil's advocate" in order to get people to consider all sides of an issue.... To try to force people to identify themselves in a forum where they are not required to seems unfair. No one is being forced to participate here and no one is being pressured to "buy into" any particular set of beliefs. It seems that people are just engaging in discussion of issues, which I believe is healthy. I don't see the need for the personal innuendoes or questioning of anyone's motives.
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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Skiddles
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Posted: Feb 14th, 2006 11:06 pm |
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macca wrote: It seems that people are just engaging in discussion of issues, which I believe is healthy. I don't see the need for the personal innuendoes or questioning of anyone's motives.
YEP, well said!
Last edited on Feb 14th, 2006 11:07 pm by Skiddles
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StewartM
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Posted: Feb 15th, 2006 11:36 am |
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Skiddles wrote: macca wrote: It seems that people are just engaging in discussion of issues, which I believe is healthy. I don't see the need for the personal innuendoes or questioning of anyone's motives.
YEP, well said!
I'll second that......
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: Feb 15th, 2006 01:04 pm |
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Hey ya'll... I moved ALL the town core postings over to the Town Core topic under Summerfield. (I somehow missed that we had a Town Core topic... Sorry Sandra!)
Anyway, please carry on with any Town Core discussions over there since we have an entire topic for that if you don't mind.
THANKS!!!
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Opinions in this post are mine. Do not copy, distribute, mass mail or quote out of context without my consent.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Feb 15th, 2006 01:37 pm |
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Tapin' at meetin's.
Whether 'tis proper for individuals to tape record durin' meetin's was brought up durin' the Town Core meltdown, but I reckon it needs to be cussed, I mean discussed here in the Town Council forum.
Pappy did a little Googlin' on the subject whilst my coffee beans was boilin' and found some different opinions aroun' the country concernin' tapin' at meetins'.
One bunch says it's a public meetin' an' tapin' ought to be allowed.
The other bunch says only the governin' body involved should be allowed to do the tapin' so ever'body ends up with the same official version. One place in Tejas made a ordinance against individual tapin', so there is a precedent for it.
Pappy sees three problems with individual tapin'. One: A man had ought to be able to talk to the person beside him, sotto voce like, and not worry about some techno geek audio voyeur with a mini directional parabolic diabolic microphone pickin' up what ought to be a private conversation. Two: I don't want any taped version altered an' then passed around as the real thing tellin' folks this is what was said. They could do that with the official version too, o' course. Three: If someone's tapin' somebody else, the people bein' taped ought to know they're bein' taped and by whom. ("Whom?" What's in them beans, Pappy? Javajavajavajavajava.)
Considerin' the possibilities for abuse with individual tapin' or the appearance of abuse, which can be just as damagin', Pappy is leanin' toward agreein' with the second bunch that wants to ban individual tapin'. Also considerin' the level of mistrust between two factions in the town, allowin' tapin' might what they call exacerbate that situation. 'Course bannin' it could cause a ruckus too.
It's a worrisome subject worthy of ponderin.'
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Feb 15th, 2006 02:04 pm |
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On t'other hand, maybe we could all just buy one o' these spy pen microphones just like the Equalizer an' the Man From Uncle carried an' we could all be packin' heat!
Custom Lithium Powered, Amplified "Pen Microphone"
This unique microphone looks exactly like an ordinary ball point pen. Hidden within, however, is a small omni-directional electric condenser microphone, 300 hour lithium power cell, and 10X amplification circuit capable of picking up conversations at over 25 feet away! Unit comes complete with 5 ft. mini-cable, carry case and lithium battery. (Spare lithium battery also included)
PM-10 Lithium Powered Pen Mic with 3.5MM Mini Plug Price: $150.00
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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StewartM
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Posted: Feb 15th, 2006 03:36 pm |
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| Does that $150 include attorney fees..........I have seen one that looks like a clipboard..... Last edited on Feb 15th, 2006 03:38 pm by StewartM
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S. Smith
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Posted: Feb 15th, 2006 03:45 pm |
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I am checking into this issue and will let you all know what I find out ASAP.
Yikes, you guys are scaring me with this Equalizer/Man from Uncle-type equipment. Guess everybody better watch what they say! 
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Steve Adkins
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Posted: Feb 15th, 2006 09:06 pm |
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Steve Adkins wrote: What do you think about the Town Council Meetings? The last elections placed two members of the Concerned Citizens on the council. What has been the impact of this membership change? How is the Town Council performing with the change in cross section?
How do you feel about recent Town Council decisions / votes?
Since the Town Core discussions have been moved to the Town Core topic (thank you CJ), I have copied the original topic questions above so we can get this topic re-focused to Town Council related topics.
Blog on..............
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