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wepete
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Posted: May 23rd, 2006 07:23 pm |
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| How frustrating to read council members are putting staff through a wringer. There is no room for each member to make independent demands! What if one member wants something directly opposite to another members desire? I sure hope Mark will fix this one in a hurry. It is very important that the council members understand (and the voters demand) that the council members obey town policy. Unless its been changed, town policy (I know, I wrote this one) was employees work for the mayor under the direction of the council (not individual members) When Mr. Brandt was hired he became "supervisor." The chain of command became bottom up through the manager to the mayor with council blessing. It is not bottom up to each and every council member independently! I understand staffs desire to maintain a relationship with each council member who can vote their continued employment BUT a single council member saying "I WANT....." should be told by the mayor (and forced by the public) that the request must be in the form of a motion during a public meeting and only during a public meeting. Five equal bosses is not fair to staff or the voters.
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FatPappy
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Posted: May 23rd, 2006 11:56 pm |
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Frustratin' is right, wepete. There's plenty o' legitimate bidness to keep the council busy. It's a shame all these little dramas that same bunch keeps a-stirrin' up continues to cause so much wasted time, energy, and, holy mackeral, taxpayer money! Reminds me o' ol' Senator Sam Ervin back in the Watergate days. He said concernin' gettin' sidetracked from the main objective, "It would be like stoppin' to shoot rabbits when you set out to hunt bears." (It sounded better when he said it.)
Be nice to see some teamwork outta them two. They' ain't been very effective so far. They seem to like to do their tallyin' in negative numbers.
____________________
How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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Steve Adkins
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Posted: May 24th, 2006 12:23 am |
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There was some positive that came out of the TC meeting (I think)
Unfortunately I am not familiar enough with all the background to tell the whole story here, but will tell what I understood, and others can maybe fill in the gaps. Forgive the omissions and the vagueness.
Mike Brandt made a presentation with blueprints about a property that could be a "maybe" sports field, couple ballfields, couple soccer fields. Unfortunately the land use was limited due to a septic field. Nice try, but around 20 - 25% of the land would not be usable, adequate parking space questionable, the SRA President also was concerned the fields would be unlighted, so it would only be a "daytime" sports facility, wouldn't really solve the space constraints of today.
Someone made a suggestion (George Holub?) there was a larger chunk of land that could be "horse traded" to get land, ball fields, adequate space, etc, instead of this small piece of land. (I'm really embarrassed I cannot explain this better).
Mike Brandt was empowered to discuss this concept further with appropriate persons. It sounded like a win win situation if it works out.
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wepete
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Posted: May 24th, 2006 12:02 pm |
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Waytago wrote: Bill Hill gave a short presentation on the implications of the "illegal immigrants" resolution that DC can't live without. ... George Holub advised this resolution could very possibly mean higher prices, ie he related a case of planting flowers where $2,800 was spent, obviously the labor done by some portion of Illegal Immigrants. A similar job with legal Americans would have been more like $6,000.
I have to question the accuracy of the numbers but for the sake of argument lets say they are accurate and planting pansies costs $2,800 with illegal labor and $6,000 with legal labor. That is $3,200 that would have gone into the pocket or to the benefit of the workers. That is money that would have been used to pay market wages, social security, unemployment taxes and workman's compensation premiums. At that price difference you have to know something is wrong or illegal.
What is actually being defended here? Use illegal labor to save money??? So to save a buck, the town should knowingly aid and employ an ongoing conspiracy to violate the minimum wage law, North Carolina Tax Law, Federal Tax Law, workman's compensation law, federal immigration law and do it all on the backs of some folk living in poverty who can not object without fear of deportation????? And Harry Reid says English as a national language is racist!!!!! Working out the numbers I found that comes at a savings of about 40 cents per Summerfield resident. Just how cheaply will the town sell its integrity? Do we now teach our children its ok to steal from Wal-Mart to save a buck or two? (I really want to curse here but won't so I can obey the rules!!!!!) *!@#%&* $^%(*&@!
If we can not afford to act legally with honesty and integrity maybe we should wait to next year to plant the darn pansies
Last edited on May 24th, 2006 01:50 pm by wepete
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FatPappy
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Posted: May 24th, 2006 02:54 pm |
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I agree wholeheartedly, wepete. The town should never knowingly engage in illegal activities. Period.
But, I also have to wonder if the resolution against illegal aliens wasn't really aimed at stopping or slowing progress on the park. Was construction on the so-called "political park" (an ignorant and offensive term, by the way) the real "offending act" the resolution was meant to stop? Was somebody using illlegal aliens to do some dirty work and not even paying them? I wonder.
____________________
How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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Waytago
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Posted: May 24th, 2006 03:08 pm |
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wepete wrote:
What is actually being defended here? Use illegal labor to save money???
I think you're going off on a tangent. The point was......there will be a cost impact to narrow the contractor base. Nobody is supporting violation of law.
What is being defended here is, to what degree does Summerfield micro-manage their contractors with our extensive town staff & purchasing executives? Summerfield has minimal purchasing policies, illegal immigrants is the flavor of the week, BS is already starting to grease the skids for next weeks flavor with "this contractor hasn't paid their state fees". Since she "used to work for a lawyer", I'm sure there will be 50 more flavors to fill in the rest of the year. What a waste of TC resources.
A town would normally get 3 competitive bids for a job, and assume the three responsible contractors have their noses clean, since they're going to another sheet of paper stating so. And we're going to trust them to tell the truth.
You mention Walmart in your comments.....so I'll ask WHY do you shop at Walmart (because they're cheap !!), WHERE does Walmart source a huge portion of their products from (offshore from China & Malaysia sweatshops that are paying less than illegal immigrants are paid in USA) ??? Why did Walmart abandon their "made in America by Americans" slogan?? Are you willing to pay double price at Walmart for products made in America (you can answer)?? Bad comparison.
The point is.....we can draw these lines in the sand, but there will be a cost impact, so get ready. If we don't mind a cost impact, then all is well.
Last edited on May 24th, 2006 03:09 pm by Waytago
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: May 24th, 2006 06:45 pm |
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Walmart gets into another issue. ( I don't shop Walmart. I don't support Walmart) and that is the largest company in the richest country not only buys its goods off shore but does not provied affordable health care for 90% of its workers.
To my knowledge unless the illegals are being paid under the table they are paying taxes, social security etc which because they are illegal they can never collect. So where is the drain on our economy?
41% of Americans do not have health care so what are a few illegals going to do to the system?
If in fact as was published recently homeowners are the greatest employers of illegals then the enemy is us not the contractors.
I feel that the Town has done everything required of it legally by local, state and federal laws and that is all we can and should do.
We can not be the police for the rest of the country.
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Steve Adkins
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Posted: May 24th, 2006 10:00 pm |
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Alot of good comments, but the above string of Walmart & China comments are watering down the original topic, which we need to get back to.
Pls keep focused on topics related to Summerfield and the Town Council. It should give everyone plenty to talk about.
Thanks
SMS
Last edited on May 27th, 2006 12:48 am by Steve Adkins
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: May 24th, 2006 11:37 pm |
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| Oops! Sorry Super Steve.
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Steve Adkins
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Posted: May 25th, 2006 03:15 am |
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Jane, that wasn't directed at you (only), it was referring to comments made by Bill, WTG, and yourself during the course of the day. None of the comments were bad, I'm not going to drag out the forum policy guidelines, the conversation was just starting to wander too much.
Blog onward.............
Last edited on May 25th, 2006 03:17 am by Steve Adkins
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wepete
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Posted: May 26th, 2006 11:07 am |
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Steve Adkins wrote: Jane, that wasn't directed at you (only), it was referring to comments made by Bill, WTG, and yourself during the course of the day. None of the comments were bad, I'm not going to drag out the forum policy guidelines, the conversation was just starting to wander too much.
WTG's original comment indicated it was ok to employ illegals because doing so would save the town money and a resolution attempting to limit such practices was not in the towns best interests. That would seem to be directly on topic.
The portion of my response regarding wal-mart was an extreme reference to illustrate that stealing from anyone, big or small, is wrong and is it is wrong even if we do it as a town because it makes good policy to save a few bucks. I wasn't about Wal-Mart being good or bad. If it makes folks feel better they could read it to say "Bud & Marys Tea Shoppe" (whatever) instead. WTG continued to use the Wal-mart example and made some incorrect assumptions and obviously misinterpreted my comment but did make some good points regarding pricing.
I rarely defend Becky but I was speaking directly towards the suggestion she is wrong because she is ok with spending more money to do things legally.
So how did my message get branded off topic? Steve, if it isn't on topic what exactly would you have us discuss in the Town Council forum and if we can not use text book examples how should we do it?
Last edited on May 26th, 2006 11:27 am by wepete
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Steve Adkins
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Posted: May 27th, 2006 12:56 am |
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wepete wrote: The portion of my response regarding wal-mart was an extreme reference to illustrate that stealing from anyone, big or small,
So how did my message get branded off topic? Steve, if it isn't on topic what exactly would you have us discuss in the Town Council forum and if we can not use text book examples how should we do it?
OK, Monty dropped his off topic sign above. As Bill states, the comparison to WalMart was an extreme example, I'll assume the other comments were on the fringe also.
Participants please strive to tie any comparisons you make back to the Summerfield situation. You know what you are trying to say, but it may not be immediately obvious to other readers.
Thanks.....and blog onward
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Skiddles
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Posted: May 27th, 2006 09:44 pm |
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Thanks everyone for the updates.
”Not enough time”: Frankly, if I didn’t have the time to gather the necessary paperwork or information that I needed to make sound decisions to do my job, then I would have to review, or my boss would do it for me, why I was doing this job in the first place. Plus, if I didn’t “have the time” to do my tasks, I would not feel comfortable or feel it was appropriate to ask others, over and over again, to take their time out of their paying job for me. Listen, a nice person will lend a hand to help, but to be asked again and again, then to have it bitten is obviously too much. I agree with you wepete, it is not fair to our town’s employees to have 5 different bosses. This is not the correct chain of command. I also hope that Mayor Brown will look into this matter. FYI: I have seen the paperwork piled high… 3 plus inches which equals: time, supplies and money. I hope this councilman could find a few minutes to go to town hall, pull up a chair and do the research and copy what she needs on her own dime and time... I would.
Volunteers: Volunteers are extremely important to our town. If we didn't have volunteers we wouldn't have a town. Volunteers started Summerfield (thank you Bill and others) and volunteers continue to make up most of our town's decision making body. I believe our elected councilmen (volunteers themselves) should support and applaud the many caring and good volunteers that work hard to do a good job for their town. It is confusing to me, why a councilman would choose not to or couldn’t find the time to come to at least one of these town’s events; the Volunteer Dinner, the Tree Lighting or Founder's Day. These events are terrific occasions for a councilman to talk and interact with the citizens they represent. It makes me wonder, do they really care about the people and what they might want to share with them?
Illegals: Now about the illegals, first of all, what contractor in their right mind admits to having illegals on their work staff? It’s illegal … jeez! Two, who in the town is going to investigate and look at every workers documentation or do we… oops, need to happen into a situation to find out if an illegal is employed by bidding or contracted company? Thirdly, who is going to prove, enforce and then turn in these companies and people? Forth: Jane is correct; most of the people here illegally are employed in homes. I believe the thought is admirable, BUT COME ON, let’s let the Federal government take care of this one! Why spend the time and energy on this issue when we have current important issues concerning Summerfield at hand.
Last edited on May 28th, 2006 02:54 am by Skiddles
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FatPappy
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Posted: May 28th, 2006 11:38 pm |
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Yee haw, Skiddles!
Volunteers are the backbone o' this town! Like you said, we wouldn't even have a town.
Pappy gets the impression BS is too good to associate with us peasants. She don't serve us, we serve her. How she must suffer to be in such close proximity with the rabble durin' council meetin's.
Her an' DC appear to have their own agenda an' their own constituancy. They go about their own bidness an' only recognize the rest o' Summerfield when it gets in their way or if it pleases them to have a peasant from its ranks attend them. They sorta got their own volunteer force, too, but I heard it hurt its foot an' ain't back up to full speed yet.
They make a big fuss about ever'body else's accountability, but where is their accountability? Who do they answer to?
____________________
How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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wepete
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Posted: May 30th, 2006 01:05 pm |
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| deleted Last edited on May 30th, 2006 01:19 pm by wepete
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