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FatPappy
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Posted: May 4th, 2006 09:18 pm |
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wepete wrote:
Nope she would not because that report does not exist.
Pappy's rale confused. Up yonder you say the report does not exist, then down yonder you give a description of it. What happened in-between?
BTW His report was about 2 or 4 pages long. ... Heath used their findings and research.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
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Waytago
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 02:24 am |
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FatPappy wrote: I agree we should comply with all laws. What I don't understand is why Crawford thinks the town ought to take a special stand on this issue out of all the other issues.
Amen Pappy
Citizens should obey ALL laws.
And it does not fall on the Town of Summerfield to police businesses on compliance.
Council members, you have more important things on your plate than this subject, stick to business !!!
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wepete
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 02:22 pm |
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Should I feel personally attacked now??
Wow! Do I stand here confused but I think its been that way since I first heard "USGS Groundwater Report".
First I was trying to say in my memory Heath had not done a formal start from scratch water study but had given a short paper saying the USGS report was wrong. If that's all you got out of years of discussion Pappy ...well sorry for you.. geeze
Second, my point Jane, was not that being paid influenced his report... just that he would not have anything to sell if he agreed with the USGS report. Duh!
I did not mention the fellow from state who memory recalls was an assistant professor who reached a similar conclusion with Heath and was paid by the same folks who paid Heath. I'd bet it would not be hard to find an ASSISTANT professor to say just about anything. I never saw his qualifications as anywhere close to the USGS folk
I do remember something about Heath doing his own report and trying to bill the town. I seem to remember completely discounting his effort because of the way he went about it. Obviously if we used it we might have been required to pay for it.
The funny thing here is It was the developers that wanted small lots and thick density in Summerfield who fought the hardest against Summerfield using the USGS report. But it was Jimmy Beeson in the employment of Paul Miliam who first called it to the towns attention (at least mine). Then some folk who were highly supportive of the large lot movement and spoke against most new subdivision requests who got on the Heath bandwagon and attacked the USGS report most vocally. Its a like when the council was against DC's petition for how the mayor was elected then spending so much time arguing with him when he publicly withdrew his support. Again... geeze
I never understood why folks who said they wanted to protect our ground water were so quick to discount the opinions of TWO highly respected folk who had absolutely no interest one way or the other and provided us with the most conservative report and the only research into runoff, absorption etc. When it comes to expects I remember the hydrologists for the quarry folk wanting to build here stating the dewater zone was 45 degree cone shaped. In Mebane they testified it was vertical. I remember McCraken stating rock quarries did not effect property values. In the finance industry we called such reports MAI... Made As Instructed ... not saying it happened here... just that it happens so often it has a name.
All I really care about now is I worked very hard for a number of years doing everything I could to do my own research, fully understand ALL the reports, and protect our groundwater for the betterment of our community. Its a shame most of the whiners limited their involvement to just whining and never really took the reports apart and understood them. As I type this the movers are packing my stuff... ya'll treat YOUR groundwater however you want. Its no longer my fight. But I wonder if the folks so against the USGS are the same folk pushing central water and all that comes with it.
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FatPappy
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 03:20 pm |
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| No personal attack intended from me, we. The thread of your narratives is very hard to follow, especially fer some o' the people readin' who may not have been involved in years of discussion. Just hoped I could get you to clarify.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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wepete
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 07:09 pm |
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| Thanks for the follow up Pap. I think I may owe Jane a mea culpa. I thought that was her then I saw it was Mr Jim... Hi Jim! Good to read your voice after all this time. Do you remember my comment when you told us about the USGS report? I did not remember you are a hydrologist. But I am getting old! I have been racking my brain to figure out that mystery you mentioned. My best guess is he wrote it and then tried to sell it. (guess I should have said sold it) I am pretty sure the town never voted to authorized that study. There would be a public record if we did. If he proceeded without payment authorized, I have to assume it was speculative work. I can assure you I know of no conspiracy to get him to waste his time or provide a free report. Last edited on May 5th, 2006 07:35 pm by wepete
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jbeeson
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 11:43 pm |
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We,
Good luck with the move. I don't think that you fully understand the things that any professional scientist should hold dear. The issue for the scientist was not the density of Summerfield at the time, it was that the scientific facts were being distorted. The density of Summerfield should be decided by the people, or their representatives, of Summerfield. That decision should be based on FACT! I and others take exception when distorted science is represented as FACT. I hope that I have kept my personal feelings in check while I arrive at scientific conclusions. I'm sure that in this case confusion did run and still does run high. I can only point you to piles of research conducted by USGS, East Carolina, NC STATE and Duke. Although some of the research was conducted by "assistant professors". There is also a short course offered by the NC extension service, if any body would like to learn more on the subject of groundwater hydrology. I will tell you that one of the instructors is Mr. Heath!
http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/swetc/hydro/2006/hydro06.htm
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wepete
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Posted: May 7th, 2006 01:33 pm |
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JB
Thanks for the good thoughts. I understand what you are saying. It frustrated me as a council member /mayor with my community's best interest in mind that I was not able to ever get a to get an absolute answer. I know what is one scientist's fact is another's fiction. For example, some say global warming is here others do not agree. Another is the shape of the dewatering cone like I already mentioned. Did you hear... at least for this week aspertine no longer causes cancer?
I agree that there is a lot of meaningful research by Assistant professors... that is one way to become full professor and get tenure,,, gotta be published you know. I mean absolutely no disrespect, I have taken classes at the community college level, undergraduate and post graduate level and even in the corporate environment. I even taught private seminars and at the community college. That one is a teacher only means they were able to get a job... this year. That in itself does not mean they are right or wrong. Just that you can probably find an AP willing to argue either side of a discussion. I would be wrong to accept someones report simply because they teach... at any level.... ag extension or Harvard
I think the point is.. not to take any report on face value and just accept the conclusions.... you gotta get into it, understand the motivation, understand the math understand the basis, understand the research and the methods... understand they can, and frequently, draw an incorrect conclusions. I think the often quoted last part of the USGS report says a lot... nobody actually knows the answer... and with that caveat, why not err on the conservative side? (Unless the goal is to maximize utilization)
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: May 10th, 2006 04:28 pm |
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wepete wrote: Does anybody know what happened to Michael Brandt's request to the council for a building maintenance committee? Its been many months since he and I discussed the bricks disintegrating in the Town Hall front wall. He told me he was going to ask the council to make provisions for repairs. Now the bricks are almost completely gone and you can see under the building from the road. Can you say "building fall down and go boom"?
Wepete... I saw a masonry truck up at Town Hall this morning and a man appeared to be "checking out" the bricks on the sides of the building.... Perhaps things are moving along now and they'll get it fixed soon.
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: May 22nd, 2006 10:11 pm |
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Whew! Dust bunnies in here!
I was just getting around to perusing my May 18 issue of the 'other' paper... the one with a Rhino on it... and I noticed on page 10 that "Mom" has been harrassing the Greensboro City Council.
As you might recall, we reported that she had broken her foot or ankle, however the actual details were fuzzy. She's also been notably absent from the SF town council meetings since her unfortunate accident.
Well, according to this paper, she tripped over a food cart at the Greensboro Coliseum and broke her ankle and is having trouble walking properly.
She has presented to the city council a long list of improvements that she would like to see at the Coliseum including the type of ice cream she'd like for them to sell.
Seems Mayor Holliday had trouble getting her to sit down and shut up when her time was up.
Imagine that.
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Waytago
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Posted: May 23rd, 2006 12:12 am |
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The TC meeting last Wednesday was not well attended, but still had some interesting moments:
BS now wants the Finance Officer to provide an "up to date" listing of checks written between the time of the financial report cutoff date, and the TC meeting. Stated she "was reponsible for the spending of taxpayer money, and wanted to know where the money was going". So now we may wind up paying the Finance Officer more money to publish information nobody is interested in but BS. Waste !!! Good job Dena on letting it be known she didn't want anymore trees wasted to produce information that would be presented the following month. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so.
Bill Hill gave a short presentation on the implications of the "illegal immigrants" resolution that DC can't live without. Bottom line, the town can adopt the resolution, but has no enforcement mechanism. Mike Brandt let it be known he didn't want to become an enforcement officer (good job Mike !!). George Holub advised this resolution could very possibly mean higher prices, ie he related a case of planting flowers where $2,800 was spent, obviously the labor done by some portion of Illegal Immigrants. A similar job with legal Americans would have been more like $6,000. BS stated "that (the cost impact) is not good enough for her". So here is another case where BS & DC are pushing agenda's that might cost the taxpayers more money. The towns "enforcement mechanism" is to sign a sheet of paper stating that contractor doesn't employ illegal aliens (are they signing under oath???). It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS & DC say so.
BS gave Mike Brandt a mild rebuke for using a separate printer & bulk mailer to send out the town newsletter.......took a few days more, but saved the town money. BS said it would have been better to get the information out sooner, even if it cost a few more bucks. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so.
BS also advised there was some contractor Summerfield has been dealing with that hasn't paid their state fees in some lengthy period of time. OK, shame on the contractor, but why is that the Town's business? Does Summerfield audit contractors books?
If BS & DC want to put all these safeguards in place for the towns contractors, then Summerfield needs to have, at a minimum, 1) a contractors policy book or more practically 2) a full time purchasing executive to administer all these policies. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS & DC say so.
BS also asked Bill Hill if she could "listen to neighbors (residents) and tell developers "I don't want to hear from you until the TC meeting?" " Hill said yes, BS appeared delighted.
Two alternative ABC reps were presented. BS made a motion to appoint one, DC 2nd'd, motion failed 2 - 3. Carol Collins made motion to appoint the other, BS then stated this candidate resigned some other board due to health reasons, and that was her only reservation. The lady was obviously highly offended, and stated out loud "my health is fine, thank you for the concern". Motion passed 3 - 2. Would have been easy to conclude BS was trying to plant a CC on the ABC board??
Mike Brandt stated when he submits the budget on June 2, it becomes the TC budget, not his. BS stated she had enough time to change it after June 2.
It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS & DC say so.
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: May 23rd, 2006 01:45 am |
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| Thanks for the update Cracker and Waytago. I also hear we taxpayers are getting to pay for the endless copying to disks of all the meetings held in Summerfield for DC, who is too busy to do it himself, so you and I are paying for the Town Clerk to do it. It is leterally hours and hours of tapes being converted. Don't you sleep better at night knowing how frugally the cc's are with our tax money?
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: May 23rd, 2006 02:23 am |
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Waytago wrote: BS gave Mike Brandt a mild rebuke for using a separate printer & bulk mailer to send out the town newsletter.......took a few days more, but saved the town money. BS said it would have been better to get the information out sooner, even if it cost a few more bucks. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so.
Waytago.... WOW. The entire post was beautifully stated. Thank you so much for the update. I was unable to attend that meeting.
About the newsletter... I did want to add that there was a VOLUNTEER committee in place to put the newsletter out and BS was dead set against any volunteers putting together a newsletter even though anything sent out would have to be approved by council.
Instead, Michael Brandt was charged with putting out the newsletter by himself. As a result he was forced to do this on taxpayer time and other things that needed his attention (for example, the Brittan Bldg. repairs) fell to the wayside so the newsletter could get out by Founder's Day.
It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so.
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: May 23rd, 2006 02:31 am |
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And another thing......I wonder what BS has against volunteers?? I realize she doesn't EVER volunteer and doesn't even come out into the community for various events (Tree Lighting, Founder's Day), but why would she have a problem with others volunteering?
She was positively gleeful when the town core committee was put on hiatus, balked at the mention of some other committee (Conservation?) coming off of hiatus and then the newsletter committee thing.
She didn't even show up for the volunteer appreciation celebration that the town council hosted for volunteers. Seems to me like she'd be thrilled with volunteers since they work for free- her being the "taxpayer's councilwoman" and all......
Do you think she wants to do away with all volunteers so we won't be privy to her backstage shenanigans?
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StewartM
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Posted: May 23rd, 2006 11:38 am |
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Thanks Waytago and Cracker for the updates, I had to work late Wednesday night and was out of town on business since last Friday, this helps me catch up. Volunteers are a very important part of our town. Most of the Town Council knows this, The rest of them better wake up. If BS wants a update on every check when its written (doesn't want to wait for the monthly report), then she can stop by town hall every day and look at the checkbook. She needs to quit wasting staffs time and the towns materials for her daily reports.
It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so.
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FatPappy
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Posted: May 23rd, 2006 12:37 pm |
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Thanks Way and Crackah! Pappy's been too busy to keep up lately. This is an invaluable service. I think we should double your usual fee.
Maybe we should call all volunteers "The Taxpayer's Volunteers." That might make the right connection in her brain.
What's next? I wouldn't be surprised to one day hear her say to her town clerk, "Call down to the barn an' have the boy bring my horse around."
It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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