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zippitydoodah
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 03:25 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
For some reason the town core people came out in droves so I am assuming that they were lied to about what Milam was presenting. I am glad that they were there to see how their elected council members (and MOM) behave. It's really embarassing. MOM came in at least an hour late started scraping chairs around and then proceeded to stand up and walk around passing out papers to the town core disciples while the council was trying to conduct business.
I think a lot of those town core people are mad at Paul Milam because of the re-zoning of the Yost & Little office. I think when he re-zoned it he just said it was going to have that office there, but when the actual plan was shown it has some more buildings on it.
Sometimes with developers its not just what they say but what they don't say. You have to learn to read between the lines and ask the right questions. You have to be carful not to get duped, and thats what happened here and I think thats why they are still so angry. They will never trust him again. Now probably anything Milam tries to do they will be against or at least be paying a lot closer attention.
Now I still don't understand why they wouldn't want a town core plan that would specifically say what you could and couldn't do in this area. It wouldn't necessarily say you could put commercial developement in certain areas. But I guess this is a mute point because it will be covered in that comprehensive plan.
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zippitydoodah
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 03:28 pm |
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zippitydoodah wrote: I heard from some people there that the papers that were passed out were campaign contribution forms. Evidently Paul Milam had given some money to Mark Brown's campaign for mayor. The form came from the board of election and there was nothing illegal or hidden about it.
I don't know what difference this makes because Mark Brown can't vote on any issues that came up in front of the town council. I think people runing for council always need to be careful who they accept money from because it might come back to bite them, but don't see that it makes any difference here since the mayor can no longer vote.
Is Mark Brown now in Paul Milam's pocket and beholding to his every whim??? Enquiring minds want to know.......
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macca
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 03:38 pm |
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FatPappy wrote:
I agree, Zippity. As long as it's legal an' out in the open, I don't see a problem. Mark Brown is about as honest as they come anyway. I'd just as soon see that whole political contribution system done away with anyway fer all the problems it causes.
That's how the Concerned Citizens brew their poison. Seasoned with just enough facts to make it seem palatable, then they stir it up with innuendo an' lies an' manage to get some people to swaller it. Notice they usually target people who are already upset about somethin' an' lookin' fer somebody to blame an' are therefore more inclined to swaller somethin' to make 'em feel better.
So, when she was distributing this literature, did she only give it to people that she knew were already upset?
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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FatPappy
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 04:03 pm |
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macca wrote:
So, when she was distributing this literature, did she only give it to people that she knew were already upset?
So it would seem. There's two ways to look at it. Florence Nightengale passin' out poultices to the wounded? Or a buzzard hoverin' over her victims?
Sure, it makes sense to keep an eye on developers an' politicians an' any other "players". We all got a point o' view to sell (me included), some good, some not so good. Let the buyer beware. Especially beware of some o' the "package deals" bein' offered; facts packaged with pre-drawn conclusions.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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FatPappy
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 04:12 pm |
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zippitydoodah wrote:
Is Mark Brown now in Paul Milam's pocket and beholding to his every whim??? Enquiring minds want to know.......
Mark Brown is a very conscientous, civic-minded an' honorable man to my way o' thinkin'. No need to take my word fer it, though. Let's just watch what happens. An' while we're watchin', don't ferget to watch the other watchers.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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zippitydoodah
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 05:47 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: zippitydoodah wrote:
Is Mark Brown now in Paul Milam's pocket and beholding to his every whim??? Enquiring minds want to know.......
Mark Brown is a very conscientous, civic-minded an' honorable man to my way o' thinkin'. No need to take my word fer it, though. Let's just watch what happens. An' while we're watchin', don't ferget to watch the other watchers. I didn't mean to imply that Mayor Brown was less than honorable in any way. I hope nobody took it that way.
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S. Smith
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 05:53 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: Sure, it makes sense to keep an eye on developers an' politicians an' any other "players". We all got a point o' view to sell (me included), some good, some not so good. Let the buyer beware. Especially beware of some o' the "package deals" bein' offered; facts packaged with pre-drawn conclusions. Interesting conversation on this topic. What do you think it means, if anything, to accept a campaign contribution that is legitimate, legal and documented from a developer or any other person or group that might bring things before the council? And does it make a difference if the contributions are made to an candidate that can't vote?
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 06:20 pm |
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Anybody can donate to any campaign. Paul Milam donated to Mark's. He offered to donate to mine but I turned him down mainly because I thought the ramifications were more than I wanted to explain. Would not have changed my thought processes at all. I was and continue you to be an advocator of smarter developing and more parks, open space and trails. I dealt with all issues from that perspective regardless of who was bringing it to the council.
It is a matter of public record what money Mark took. But you know interestingly it does not appear to be public record where the concerned citizens are getting their money which surprises me since they are such advocates of open government. Information doesn't seem to need to flow both ways in their minds. I guess that means BS and DC can hide their contributions behind the curtain of the CC's so the public is not aware who is donating. Hadn't thought of that until Sandra asked the question.
Where is Macca PI when I need her?
Whether the mayor votes or doesn't vote she/he has tremendous power in the direction of the town.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 06:27 pm |
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zippitydoodah wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that Mayor Brown was less than honorable in any way. I hope nobody took it that way.
I understood where you was comin' from, Zippity. Pappy weren't aimin' nuthin' at you. The big point in all this that I wanted to make was that conclusions should come after the facts, not before, an' we all need to be very clear whether what we're hearin' is in fact a fact or somebody's spin disguised as a fact.
For example, it's a fact that several committees identified a need fer a town truck, the council agreed with tht need an' budgeted fer it. It's a fact Mayor Brown scoped out a deal on a truck an' him an' George Holub went to test drive it. Those are the facts. Where the trouble comes in is what conclusions are drawed from these facts. Pappy concluded that it sounded like they found a good deal an' the town would be gettin' the truck it needed sooner than later. BS, on the other hand, apparently decided those facts meant Mayor Brown had duped us into buyin' his ol' buddy George a truck an' accused 'em of it outright.
My conclusion from that is that she will boldly an' brazenly say whatever she thinks she can get away with if things don't go exactly her way.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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FatPappy
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 06:48 pm |
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S. Smith wrote:
What do you think it means, if anything, to accept a campaign contribution that is legitimate, legal and documented from a developer or any other person or group that might bring things before the council? And does it make a difference if the contributions are made to an candidate that can't vote?
In general, I don't like the idea of anybody contributin' money directly to a particular candidate or party. It opens the door fer all kinds o' real an' perceived abuse. On the one hand, if a candidate doesn't accept contributions, they run the risk of bein' outspent by an' losin' to the opposition. On the other hand, if they do accept contributions, they run the risk of bein' guilty by association. I think we need campaign finance reform to cut the direct flow an' have a pool that legitimate candidates can get equal he'p from. Or somethin' like that.
The reality of the present situation leaves a candidate, especially in a small town, no good choices. The best we can do is keep thangs as out in the open as possible.
Jane makes a good point about the concerned citizens and where their money is comin' from. It wasn't from me in case anybody was wonderin'.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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Baseball Buddy
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Posted: Aug 6th, 2006 10:02 pm |
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As I have said before " Where has the love gone." BS and DC use hate filled tactics and half truths to try and sway people into thinking that someone is wrong or doing wrong with the taxpayers money. Every time Mom disrupts the meetings she should be asked to leave. Every meeting she attends she is out of order or disruptive. She should not be allowed to pass out propaganda to try and sway the crowd during a meeting. When this happend last meeting it was very rude of her. This is a Town meeting for Town Biz not a CC campaign. Does the meeting have a Sargent of Arms to control this? If not one is needed!!
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zippitydoodah
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Posted: Aug 7th, 2006 02:04 am |
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Does the meeting have a Sargent of Arms to control this? If not one is needed!!
Isn't it the mayor's job to run the meeting and to maintain order?
Of course I think some mayors are more prone to banging the gavel than others are.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Aug 7th, 2006 01:13 pm |
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I agree about town meetin's bein' fer town bidness. I think Bill Hill an' Mayor Brown made some good moves last time. I trust they will keep it up.
I would also like to see them address the rudeness an' disrespect fer citizens that comes from Becky Strickland durin' meetin's. We should be able to expect our leaders to speak to the citizens with respect an' decency, no matter what views are expressed.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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happycamper
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Posted: Aug 9th, 2006 06:11 pm |
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Does anyone know if in the past the candidates for town council and mayor had any open discussion/ questions in a debate type format where the citizens could ask each candidate where they stood on certain issues? I would like to see this happen in the next election... I just recently got interested/involved in the local issues, but I do think it would be good to have an opportunity to have a question and answer session . My thinking is that the next 2-3 years will be pivotal in the future of Summerfield.,
I guess it is a matter of who you associate with. For the most part, folks seem to me to be most concerned with ( in order)
a) development
b) taxes
c) Spending
I find myself talking with a lot of people about town issues lately, something I tried my best to stay out of. As I speak with these folks, they seem more upset over being "over run" by large scale residential developments, and/or drug stores,sandwich shops, and offices. And although some would argue that this is "progress" for the town..I wonder if council members have a grip on how to handle this growth..Some, to me, seem all for it..Some all against. Where is the middle ground? To me ,true progress is making the decisions now that will make life better for those that come behind you...ie. Our Kids. To me the best thing that we could hope for in the next election is that the folks voted in have the willingness to work with one another for true progress, .....limiting growth and development.,keeping taxes down, and resposible spending..
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FatPappy
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Posted: Aug 9th, 2006 08:24 pm |
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To my way o' thinkin', cooperation an' respect fer opposin' views is where we're gonna hafta start afore we come up with any kind o' meanin'ful solutions to anythang. Judgin' by the deplorable treatment o' Paul Milam, George Holub, an' the SRA at the last SF council meetin', not ever'body on the council shares that opinion. Summerfield's good folk have endured some harsh treatment since that plague o' Concerned Citizen locusts darkened our sky an' started devourin' decency right an' left. As long as the opposin' views o' citizens (even majority views) are stomped on an' volunteers are verbally lynched or arrogantly dismissed (but with 48¢ a mile! Wow!), we're gonna see another season end without no decent crop o' cooperation an' respect sproutin' up in this hard ground.
Pappy's proud we got us some decent an' capable leaders an' volunteers willin' to brave such harsh conditions while they plant the seeds o' future growth, despite that dry ill wind always a-blowin' no good.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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