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Doug Canavello
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 01:23 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
On this topic at least, Candidates Flowers, Canavello and Wendelken seemingly aligned themselves squarely with the Concerned Citizens and spoke in opposition of allowing the citizens to make the decision for themselves.
Why is there so much acrimony in Summerfield? Throwing labels of "Concerned Citizens" is certainly one of the main causes. I don't need to 'align' with anyone to express my opinion on a subject. So consider that perhaps you are a source of the problem!!
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 01:43 pm |
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That's exactly what they would like for you to believe Mr. Canavello. I did not however, come up with the label "Concerned Citizens". They've done a fine job of making a name for themselves without any help from me.
So if you were indeed expressing your own opinion and not the opinion of the Concerned Citizens, how do you answer to the fact that you spoke in opposition to giving the public the right to vote on the issue?
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FatPappy
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 02:08 pm |
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I'm not sure where all the acrimony came from, but a big load of it was imported from Illinois. Have you never been to a town council meeting and seen and heard the industrial strength acrimony spat out by Strickland and Dunham for the past two years and more? Why not ask them why?
The acrimony and finger pointing started when the Concerned Citizens became active and began polluting the water with their poison of mistrust, innuendo, accusations, our-way-or-nothing attitudes, and half-truths.
Finger pointing in itself is neither good nor bad, but it can be put to good or bad uses.
Good use:
Pointing out who poisoned the water hole.
Bad use:
Pointing to who didn't poison the water hole and saying they did.
(Hint: This is what the Concerned Citizens do.)
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GRITS
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 02:30 pm |
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Doug Canavello wrote: Cracker Jax wrote:
On this topic at least, Candidates Flowers, Canavello and Wendelken seemingly aligned themselves squarely with the Concerned Citizens and spoke in opposition of allowing the citizens to make the decision for themselves.
Why is there so much acrimony in Summerfield? Throwing labels of "Concerned Citizens" is certainly one of the main causes. I don't need to 'align' with anyone to express my opinion on a subject. So consider that perhaps you are a source of the problem!!
Doug Canavello, please express in your opinion as to why you oppose the citizens the right to vote on their form of government? I am not a participant of either group and would like to understand better why you oppose this. I currently do not know where I stand on this issue and I would like as much information as possible. However, I do not disagree in asking that the citizens vote on this issue.
Are you currently pleased with our form of government as it is? What do you think needs to be changed to resolve problems instead of creating problems?
Also, how long have you been a resident of Summerfield, and where are you originally from?
I propose the above questions to any candidate.
Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 03:14 pm by GRITS
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 02:44 pm |
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GRITS wrote:
Also, how long have you been a resident of Summerfield, and where are you originally from?
Ah Ha. The old US versus THEM political campaign tactic. (We should have seen than one coming)
Also known as the old INSIDERS versus OUTSIDERS smear campaign.
Your question might be considered a fair one if you posed it to every single candidate. But then would you measure a candidate's worthiness for office solely on their length of residence or tenure in Summerfield?
Your inference is that unless someone is born and bred in Summerfield, their voice and vote and opinion and their participation doesn't count for much.
Let me give you a little helpful hint:
With all of the residential growth in the past 10 years, there are now lots more of them (outsiders) than there are of you (locals).
And THEY VOTE TOO.
Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 03:02 pm by Jim Flynt
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Hairbrush
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 02:58 pm |
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Grits I think those are great questions. I too would like to see why some people oppose not only the form of government but why do they oppose giving the right to the people of voting whether they want to vote for a change of government. I think that got a little lost last night. If you don't want a change of government then vote no.
I too think that if you are going to be a candidate for a member of a town council then it seems logical to want to know how long they have lived in the town, what brought them to the town, what vision they have for the town, how many council meetings they have attended, what committees they have worked on or what boards they have sat on. These are important to me.
I don't need to know what group a candidate has aligned herself/himself with, but I do need to know what they stand for and why, not just what they stand against. That leaves a lot of open area for me to guess on what someone might stand for.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 03:21 pm |
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Hairbrush wrote:
I too think that if you are going to be a candidate for a member of a town council then it seems logical to want to know how long they have lived in the town, what brought them to the town,
That kind of question is right out of a Karl Rove or Lee Atwater political campaign play book. ('wedge issue')
The very nature of the question is designed to DIVIDE rather than UNITE a community. (Let's be honest here, a continued community division is the intent and goal of both sides)
The question reflects extreme xenophobia by those who fear and feel threatened by a loss of power at the hands of folks who are not one of them.
Karl and Lee would be so proud.......
Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 03:23 pm by Jim Flynt
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GRITS
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 03:23 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
et me give you a little helpful hint:
With all of the residential growth in the past 10 years, there are now lots more of them (outsiders) than there are of you (locals).
I challenge you to provide the statistical proof.
Am I to just rollover and just except what all these outsiders want simply because you say they out number me? Does my expectation of what I want from my government not count because you say I am a minority? Are you saying outsiders votes are superior to locals because again I am a minority?
Fortunately, I appreciate others knowledge of other types or styles of leadership as long as it leads to a positive solution--and it is worthy to know participant's location and what their outcomes were under their form of government.
Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 03:38 pm by GRITS
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 03:31 pm |
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GRITS wrote: I challenge you to provide the statistical proof.
If you will please remind me on the morning after Election Day, I will be happy to provide such proof.
If one cannot read the county board of elections historical data as well as building permit demographics and reach the conclusion that I did, nothing I could say or tender as proof would ever change such a closed mind.
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Hairbrush
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 03:45 pm |
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| So let's see if I understand this Grits, you and I are trying to be informed voters, but we should just vote by the seat of our pants. We shouldn't worry if someone has an understanding of the community they are living in or what is important to that town. I guess only the newcomers are important. But I feel there must have been some reason the newcomers wanted to move to this area and there must be some things they want to see done in the town as well as the long lived residents, as well as the residents that haven't been here for generations but have lived here for awhile. But that doesn't seem to matter. As long as a candidate was living here before the filing date and paid her/his money then she/he is perfectly qualified to sit on the council. Am I understanding this correctly Grits? I thought I was pretty educated but I guess am not. I guess all these years of researching my candidates was just a big joke. Shoot I don't even now why it matters if they are Republican or Democrat. Now talk about a divide.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 03:49 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
Ah Ha. The old US versus THEM political campaign tactic. (We should have seen than one coming)
Also known as the old INSIDERS versus OUTSIDERS smear campaign.
Jim Flynt wrote:
That kind of question is right out of a Karl Rove or Lee Atwater political campaign play book. ('wedge issue')
The very nature of the question is designed to DIVIDE rather than UNITE a community. (Let's be honest here, a continued community division is the intent and goal of both sides)
Some could consider your posts a smear campaign. You can believe and say what you want, but it don't make it true. A continued divided community is certainly not my goal and I don't really think you believe it is.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 03:51 pm |
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Hairbrush wrote: Shoot I don't even now why it matters if they are Republican or Democrat. Now talk about a divide.
I thought Summerfield Town Council Elections were NON-PARTISAN.
Is political affiliation part of the whispering campaign too?
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 03:58 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: A continued divided community is certainly not my goal and I don't really think you believe it is.
A simple reading of the posts here from all sides leads to no other conclusion.
In Summerfield, the dialogue is never about issues, but rather name calling and finger pointing by one side against the other.
Both sides are equally guilty and equally at fault.
The divisive dialogue and community division will only change when both sides see far greater disadvantage than advantage in continuing with the current divisiveness.
Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 04:03 pm by Jim Flynt
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jkinneman
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 04:12 pm |
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Mostly responding in reference to the number of outsiders versus locals. How long you have to live some place to be a local is one question I would ask but census data seems to support there are more "outsiders" than locals if we look back to the 1990 census as a starting point.
Based on Census data in 1990 Summerfield had about 2051 people (all ages). Since Summerfield was not an incorporated town in 1990 it was designated as a "census designated place".
In the 2000 Census there were 7018. I couldn't find a good number for 2007 but likely the growth since 2000 has been more due to people moving in than by birth from someone defined as a local.... 
Whether a higher percentage of "locals" vote than "new comers" or vice versa I don't know any easy way to find that out. As mentioned above how long do you have to live some place to be a local?
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GRITS
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Posted: Aug 15th, 2007 04:14 pm |
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FatPappy wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:
Ah Ha. The old US versus THEM political campaign tactic. (We should have seen than one coming)
Also known as the old INSIDERS versus OUTSIDERS smear campaign.
Jim Flynt wrote:
That kind of question is right out of a Karl Rove or Lee Atwater political campaign play book. ('wedge issue')
The very nature of the question is designed to DIVIDE rather than UNITE a community. (Let's be honest here, a continued community division is the intent and goal of both sides)
Some could consider your posts a smear campaign. You can believe and say what you want, but it don't make it true. A continued divided community is certainly not my goal and I don't really think you believe it is.
Mine neither, therefore Hairbrush keep educating yourself and inform me on what you find out--we are the ones that have to live with the outcome of the vote "we are the locals" if you know what I mean.
Unity is coming! Keep being positive.
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