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Lacka
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 02:35 am |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Even though that college roomate connection happened eons ago.... I still think that's way too close for comfort.
Crackah, you mean the glamour shot is not real?
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FatPappy
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 12:43 pm |
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Lacka, the glamour shot is deceptive? I'm shattered!
Pappy wouldn't underestimate that bunch. I got the feelin' a lot of the ones they counted as members were not really card carryin' members, they just went along with the leaders because it sounded good. If the leaders make a good enough sounding case they'll do it again. It's kind of like having a zombie army at your command. Just say the magic words and they do your bidding.
We just need to make a little noise ourselves and reach a larger audience: letters to the editor (NWO and mumbled name), letters to council, continue on the forum. The forum is getting there. People are reading.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 02:27 pm |
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You've heard of false advertising?
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EditorPS
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 02:28 pm |
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Lacka wrote: ... It makes me nervous that she suggested, correct me if I am wrong, a firm that represented other towns. Could that not be a conflict if interest, and a poor choice on our part?
Lacka, I think that we do actually want an attorney who has municipal experience. Just as with the numerous varieties of doctors we have now (internists, oncologists, gynecologists, dermatologists, etc.), the laws are so expansive and complex that having someone who specializes in municipal law (versus real estate, wills, business incorporations, divorce settlements, etc.) is exactly what we need.
The very first town attorney that Oak Ridge had was a real estate attorney. He was a nice guy, but made me very nervous because he just didn't know the ins and outs of public hearing protocol, rezonings versus subdivision and site plan approvals, rights of citizens, etc.
A municipal attorney that does not represent another town close by might be the ideal candidate, though at one time Bill Trevorrow represented Oak Ridge, Summerfield and Stokesdale simultaneously. There were advantages to that at times -- issues that came up in one town were often similar to issues that came up in another town, since all three have many of the same trials and tribulations. However, some thought that this presented at least a potential for a conflict of interest, if not a proven conflict.
I hope that prior to making a decision, council members will stipulate what is needed in a town attorney and put it in writing to use as a guideline when interviewing applicants: i.e. someone who has past experience with, or at least has proven to be very knowledgeable in the field of municipal law specifically; someone who has no ties to a particular council member; someone who understands the unique personality and challenges that the town of Summerfield is currently facing (threatened lawsuits, ACLU warnings, etc.) and is fully prepared to deal with them from day one; someone who is diplomatic (not just brilliant because they know the law, but also citizen-friendly), clearly understands their responsibility to the town's officials and to the citizens of the town; someone who is capable of educating when needed (i.e. explaining legalities in laymen's terms). Oh, and a personal request of mine -- someone who would actually explain legalities as they relate to the town to those of us in the media and not avoid us like the plague. 
What do you all think about these attributes, and do you have more you would add to the list?
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 02:38 pm |
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Vicki White-Lawrence
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 02:43 pm |
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Good morning, Patti!
I agree with your list and only thought of one more criteria: That the attorney explain, not just to the media but to anyone needing to know, in terms we can understand.... I think sometimes council members are reluctant to ask questions even if they don't totally understand what is meant. I'm not saying the attorney needs to address specific questions by citizens, but that s/he does need to make sure council members understand. It is council's responsibility to address citizen concerns, and they can forward those questions on to the attorney as they deem necessary. The attorney, as I understand it, represents the town and answers to the town council.
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EditorPS
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 03:00 pm |
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Yes, Vicki, that's exactly what I meant when I said, "someone who is capable of educating when needed (can explain legalities in laymen's terms)." I think this is where a good municipal attorney is like a teacher - they don't sit back and wait until the class is ready to take a test to determine if they understand the subject matter, but they're constantly gauging expressions, depth of questions, etc. to ensure that the information, issues, and potential ramifications of decisions are being processed and understoond.
My comment regarding the media was just that, because we're in a unique position, attorneys are often so cautious in what they say to us that they won't give us any valuable information, even when we're not asking about anything that's controversial or involves protected information. For example, a couple of months ago I asked a municipal attorney a question that had to do with something that one of our readers had asked and was not about anything contentious(really); he just danced all around it without adding anything of value (sorry to those of you who are attorneys, or married to one, or are friends with one, but I think attorneys must take a course in how to say a lot without saying anything -- the same course that politicians take). We ended up having to go to the state-level to get the question answered.
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Billyboy
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 05:42 pm |
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| What needs to be determined are what criteria are considered important to the people doing the interviewing and hiring.
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Steve Adkins
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 08:24 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
I ditto the above ditto with regard to Patti's and Vicki's comments
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S. Smith
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2006 10:05 pm |
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Just thought I'd throw in a little info here.
I believe all the attorneys/firms being considered for this position have municipal law experience. John Wolfe represents Kernersville. Another name mentioned was Marshall Hurley, as was Kevin Berger, son of Sen. Phil Berger.
Guilford County is evidently offering some kind of early retirement, and Jonathan Maxwell (the county's attorney) was mentioned, as was Susan Moore (deputy attorney for the county and I believe also attorney for the sheriff's department). I do not think anyone had contacted either of them personally to see if they were interested.
The firm Becky recommended was Roberson Haworth & Reese in HP. I believe they also have an office in Greensboro. This firm represents Jamestown, Archdale, Sedgefield Sanitary District, the Jamestown ABC Board, etc. This firm was hired by the town to represent them at the next zoning board meeting. I believe their hourly rate is $190. Carolyn Collins pointed out that this was $65 more per hour than Trevorrow had been charging the town.
I understood Becky to say she used to work for someone who was the college roommate of the firm she was recommending, but I cannot swear to that because sometimes it is difficult to hear in that room.
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bama80
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Posted: Jan 23rd, 2006 01:08 pm |
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| So, (uninformed me wants to ask) what exactly was trevarrow doing wrong that put SF in this need for hiring another attorney. I understand he resigned, but it still seems even more ridiculous that you should even be in this situation. Just my $.02. Ignorance is bliss, and sometimes I just like to roll all in it.
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Roll Tide and Go Pack. Maybe or maybe not in that order. [insert profound quote here]
This post will self destruct in 10.......9......8....
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wepete
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Posted: Jan 26th, 2006 07:11 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote: In this letter he states: "Remember, Summerfield's Leadership also enticingly promised us "no services, no taxes" If we would only vote to incorporate."
It's a lovely, powerful statement don't ya think? Just gives his letter that oomph it needed. The problem with that little statement is that it is NOT TRUE.
First of all Mr. Flowers... we did not VOTE to incorporate. A few citizens who felt passionate about our area volunteered their time and went DOOR to DOOR and got petitions signed by adjoining property owners to incorporate. This was all done without the City of Greensboro's knowledge and in my opinion it was a major coup.
If I can do this with only one of his sentences, imagine what I could do to the rest of his fairy tale……
You are just so wrong..... AGAIN
Once upon a time there were Beesons, Deckers, Friddles, Lyngles, Petersons, and many others who formed a committee to incorporate Summerfield. There were as many as 30 or 40 of us altogether. We did our homework, put out flyers, held public meetings, attended group meetings like home owner associations and neighborhood groups, and did what ever we could to get the word out. We told folk what we knew and by a show of hands received overwhelming community support to proceed. We even sought Greensboro's assistance. They lied to us with promises of support then worked against us in Raleigh. The bill failed to get out of committee. Several years later the Beesons, Petersons, Lyngles, Friddles, and others got back together when the republicans gained control over the NC legislature. We redrew the bill and submitted it for approval. We held a few public meetings. At one of those meetings, the folks from Hillsdale Lake, Polo Farms and Alley Road did their best to be a pain in the rear. They wanted to be included but the bill had already gone part of the way and we did not want to withdraw and resubmit. They did not want to accept an offer of annexation. They argued and brow beat us so much I nearly quit. They threatened us that either we would add them to the bill or they would work against the incorporation. Joan and I offered to resign and let anyone else take over. No one wanted the job. The bill we submitted continued its way through the legislature and we were rewarded with the right to hold a vote. The votes flooded the polls and approved the incorporation by some 90% (its been a while, so don't hold me to that.)
The folk you mention who took petitions door to door did so long after the fact, Folks sighed up for annexation not incorporation.
Mr. Flowers was right. Our flyers did say things like "Keep Summerfield Summerfield" "Local Control for Local Issues" "No New Taxes" I know that for a fact. They were put together by me on my computer.
Greensboro knew what we were doing but we had blindsidded the the second time. They were powerless to stop us. We played our cards just right. You were right about that... I'm real proud of pulling that off.
You were wrong and should say so to Mr. Flowers.
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wepete
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Posted: Jan 26th, 2006 07:31 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: I have long maintained if we are going to be incorporated then we needed to act like a town. I think to say no services is very misleading when the minute the town was incorporated then a certain level of services was mandated by state and federal government.
Jane...
Would you please enlighten me as to what services we were REQUIRED to provide by state and federal law.
I know there was a state law enacted after we incorporated that required new towns to provide a minimum number of services from a list. Greensboro got it passed so new towns would have to collect taxes. It did not apply to us. I do not remember you ever bringing this up in the years we served together
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Jan 26th, 2006 11:46 pm |
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Actually Bill I hadn't thought of those services that were passed by law after Summerfield was incorporated although I did get lectured by Howard Coble one Founders Day about why Summerfield wasn't providing water and street lights. I think I may have been on the council when that law went into effect.
I am not sure what you meant by you never heard me discuss that. I think you probably heard me say many times if Summerfield was not going to act like a town then it should unincorporate and give the money back to Guilford County who would certainly put it to good use.
The services that come to mind that we have to provide are planning, zoning, inspections also we escaped the storm water regulation this past year but it is just a matter of a little while before the incorporated Town of Summerfield will have to manage its waste water. I think the Town once is incorporated is required to keep its citizens safe and while that is taken care of by Guilford County as budgets get tighter it could certainly change. Those are the services that I was thinking about as we had to provide.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Jan 27th, 2006 12:10 am |
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| Pappy's just gotta say, "We really appreciate you, Jane!"
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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