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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 10:20 pm |
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| Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:31 am by Jim Flynt
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Gestalt
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Posted: Apr 13th, 2007 12:25 am |
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S. Smith wrote: What about the people (which would probably be most) without the resources to fight back? Somebody on CBS news estimated the parents of these kids had spent a combined amount of $3-5 million (yes, million) on their defense.
Incredible
Yes, the outcome was probably different since these kids were part of "haves" family vs if they had been part of "have nots".
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SaltyDog
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Posted: Apr 13th, 2007 01:32 pm |
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| As I have watched the evolution of this case since it first became public knowledge in late March 2006 I have often asked myself - "Can Nifong really be that stupid?" and the answer has always been a resounding "Yes!" Last edited on Apr 13th, 2007 02:42 pm by SaltyDog
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mstone
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Posted: Apr 13th, 2007 04:49 pm |
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I'm going to type this very slowly so I can choose my words very carefully.....
A lot of debate ensued at the outset of this case that centered around the immediate reaction when the rape charges were first announced. "Hang 'em all" was the often heard battle cry. No facts were in, just accusations and charges of "rich white boys" gang raping a "poor black girl" at some drunken party that employed strippers for entertainment. The Duke lacrosse players' planned activities at their party were certainly poor judgment. However, stupidity and a lack of moral ethics is not a crime.
Then some of the stories, and information, and rumors, and inuendo started to come out. While this was happening, the defense attorneys, the players, and their families started talking to the press. The university passed judgment on the team and called off the season. They also passed judgment on the players (accused, tried, and convicted without a trial). Then stories changed, characters were attacked, sorted past sins exposed. Nifong went on the offensive and (in the words of A.G. Roy Cooper) became a "rouge" prosecutor, ignoring facts and hiding evidence.
OK - fine. So the story goes from those dastardly rapists to those poor innocent boys. It goes from that poor girl to that troubled liar. And all of this happens outside a court of law. This is playing out in the court of public opinion. And we were quick to judge based on what the media fed us.
Now here's where I'm going to get hammered...... Mike Nifong is under investigation by the state bar association for possible violations of ethics and perhaps violations of laws. Once again, stupidity is not a crime, and I don't think there's an "anti-rouge" law on the NC books. Who are we to judge and convict Mr. Nifong in the public court? Do we know he's guilty of a crime, or is it that we perceive that he's guilty based on what's reported in the news media? Is it even remotely possible that there is some scrap of evidence that has not been disclosed or reported that may explain or exhonorate his actions? Perhaps, but then again, perhaps not. I don't know. But then again, I'm not sure that any of us know.
Am I offended at his actions? YES! But that is not the American system of justice's test for proving guilt or innocence. Is Mr. Nifong innocent? Yep - innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Being charged with an offense does not make one guilty of an offense. We should have learned this from what the Duke players went through. I'm just a little suprised that folks climbed on this roller coaster only to find out the very real difference between perception and fact are now the same folks lining up to ride again.
I have my own opinions about Nifongs antics, but that's another post for a later time. God Bless America. Now let the verbal tongue lashings begin.
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Gestalt
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Posted: Apr 14th, 2007 02:05 am |
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mstone wrote: Who are we to judge and convict Mr. Nifong in the public court?
Well, since it's physically impossible to convict anyone in a public court, it's kind of a null point, but still interesting to discuss. My take is the public expects officials to be held accountable. Public opinion does not wait on the snail paced legal system we have, our opinions are now & today.
So my lowly opinion is........I am disappointed at the REPORTED behavior of Mr Nifong, I hope the legal system THOROUGHLY investigates his behavior, and if it turns out to be as irresponsible as the news media is reporting, I hope he is punished to the max.
but if his behavior isn't found to be so bad...........then why in the heck is he feeling compelled to publicly apologize to the lads?
Last edited on Apr 14th, 2007 02:14 am by Gestalt
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mstone
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Posted: Apr 15th, 2007 08:55 pm |
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Gestalt wrote: mstone wrote: Who are we to judge and convict Mr. Nifong in the public court?
Well, since it's physically impossible to convict anyone in a public court, it's kind of a null point, but still interesting to discuss.
Try telling those lacrosse players that they weren't convicted in the "public court". I'll bet they'll disagree. The difference here is that you don't go to jail, but you can lose your job, your position, your livelihood, an educational opportunity, and have your good name and character assassinated.
I do agree with you though - Public officials are to be held accountable for very high standards, and "behavior" whether legal or not IS an important aspect of the job. It is very odd that Nifong would apologize. Either he was doing his job properly as a public servant, or he was an inept rouge prosecutor. My opinion is that his apology is the opening actions of his defense. To little, too late if you ask me.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Apr 16th, 2007 12:02 am |
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| Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:32 am by Jim Flynt
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Gestalt
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Posted: Apr 16th, 2007 12:17 am |
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mstone wrote: Try telling those lacrosse players that they weren't convicted in the "public court". I'll bet they'll disagree. The difference here is that you don't go to jail, but you can lose your job, your position, your livelihood, an educational opportunity, and have your good name and character assassinated.
Yes, I certainly agree, and it follows you around forever thanks to Google searches
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Gestalt
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Posted: Apr 16th, 2007 01:54 am |
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mstone wrote: Try telling those lacrosse players that they weren't convicted in the "public court". I'll bet they'll disagree.
I just got thru watching the 60 minutes segment for tonight, thanks to the wonders of DVR technology.
You know mstone..........after watching what happened to those boys, I have to eat my words above about the court of public opinion, and side with your comments. Holy Cow !!!
I was not aware until this evening about the crowds staging the protest rallies outside the boys homes, beating on the pots & pans, holding up the signs.......in general being judge, juries, and executioners (j, j, & e's). Saw the clips about the boys walking thru the crowds with the j, j, & e's following them, almost expected to see a grim reaper with a cicle (sp?) in the crowd.
The saddest comment (in my eyes) was the boy who said when he died, people would still say "here's one of the rapists from Duke university".
Agree with Jim Flynt.......history won't be kind to Nifong. Lest I fall into the trap of being a j, j, & e, (which is really tempting after hearing Ray Cooper's comments tonight).....but I hope Nifong gets appropriate "justice".
And I hope North Carolina takes a serious look at it's legal machine to ensure situations like this don't happen again.
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mstone
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Posted: Apr 16th, 2007 04:08 am |
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Be very careful when agreeing with me ... on anything. Nothing good can come of that! 
The interviews showed the power of the media to influence public opinion. One has to wonder if any of the new media are willing to step up and admit that they also rushed to judgment and passed sentence on these young men. Not likely.
I can only assume that the Nifong will not have to endure the same treatment as these young men. He's not going to be targeted by college students with pots and pans, visits to his home, or protest signs as he walks down the street. His political and legal connections will keep some of this harrassment at bay.
I do believe Nifong over-stepped all boundaries of proper ethical actions and common decency. I hope that we will learn why he did this and how to prevent it from happening again. If the answers aren't delivered in front of the sate bar, I'm confident he'll have to come up with a response during the civil trials that will surely follow. This thing ain't over by a long shot.
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S. Smith
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Posted: Jun 14th, 2007 03:12 pm |
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| Anybody keeping up with Nifong's trial?
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Jun 14th, 2007 06:16 pm |
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| Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:32 am by Jim Flynt
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smileyfaces
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Posted: Jun 14th, 2007 10:16 pm |
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As I'm not a Summerfield resident, reading the going ons with the council is sometimes very entertaining. It's amazing the lack of respect that some members have for each other and the residents.
As for Nifong, what goes around comes around. The Brad and Britt Show had it right this morning in that Nifong should just come into court one day with his license ready to turn in. If he manages his way out of all this, what will it say about our legal system. And...what about Paris Hilton?
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macca
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Posted: Jun 15th, 2007 07:59 pm |
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| Well, as I've said before, EVERYBODY reads our forum.... so, of course, Nifong followed your advice and announced his resignation today...
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Jun 15th, 2007 08:06 pm |
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| Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:33 am by Jim Flynt
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