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rasin
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Posted: Sep 21st, 2006 07:01 pm |
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Exactly, we knew about it and didn't plan for it. Rummie just about forbid any planning for after the invasion.
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mstone
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Posted: Sep 21st, 2006 07:30 pm |
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| Are you saying that the administration knew there was medical and industrial radioactive material in Iraq, but we didn't have a plan for stopping people from stealing it? We also didn't have a plan for stopping the looting of the museums, palaces, and businesses. But think about it - we're in a war. Are we going to fight terrorists or are we going to protect furniture in a hotel? Perhaps my priorities are a little off kilter on this one, but since my Marine is on the front lines, I want the bad guys dead first.
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FatPappy
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Posted: Sep 21st, 2006 08:01 pm |
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mstone wrote:
Are you saying that the administration knew there was medical and industrial radioactive material in Iraq, but we didn't have a plan for stopping people from stealing it?
Yes, I think that was rasin's point, that after the invasion, the known nuclear material became less secure due to poor planning.
I don't understand what furniture has to do with it.
____________________
How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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rasin
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Posted: Sep 21st, 2006 08:08 pm |
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We knew where the material was and did not have a plan to protect it. We are not talking about furniture here. Protecting this material would have been something to have done.
All the military planners knew the initial fighting would be over quickly. Quite a few of them tried to raise the issue of dealing with the reconstruction.
Expecting looting in general and having a plan in place to address it would have been wise. Allowing an atmosphere of lawlessness to exist only made the job of reconstruction harder. Having a complete plan to deal with the reconstruction would have made it safer for your Marine.
GB and Rumie thought we could waltz into Bagdad, be welcomed as liberators and everything would fall into place. One reason other administrations including the first GB didn’t take over Iraq is they knew there wasn’t anyone to replace Saddam and run the country, which meant we would need to run it.
Blowing up a country is the easy part, putting it back together is the hard messy part. Considering that planning for the invasion pretty much started in earnest just after 9/11 they should have had enough time to have in place a solid reconstruction plan.
After the invasion just as in a company take over there is a small window of opportunity to establish a positive relationship with the citizen/employee. If they see you have no plan chaos tends to fill the vacuum. Employees tend not to resort to civil unrest, in a war it tends to be seen as an option. This chaos has turned out to be more deadly than the invasion itself.
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Sep 21st, 2006 08:30 pm |
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| I also think we are confusing two issues here. Saddam was not the person responsible for 9/11 so we have deposed a dictator, reduced a country to rubble in places with anarchy. Had no plan to protect legitimate nuclear material so that the terrorists could get a hold of it and use it against us. Who besides Haliburton hasbenefitted from all this? There is probably a moral here somewhere.
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mstone
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Posted: Sep 21st, 2006 09:29 pm |
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Let's see... In addition to Haliburton, there are 117 American companies that have contracted with either the American government or directly with the Iraqi government to provide goods and services to Iraq. There are 6 North Carolina companies on this list. There are over 20,000 private contractors (individuals) on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan from the US alone that are not Haliburton employees. The number of private contrators in Iraq and Afghanistan from other countries dwarfs the American private contractor presence.
Iraqi citizens have electricity, water, and open markets that were not available prior to the invasion. Iraqi citizens have security forces on their streets (both international and Iraqi forces) to protect them. They are provided with food, clothing, and shelter from the military and private companies. They are given jobs by private contractors that pay more in a month than what they earned in a year under Saddam.
That's who is benefitting from all of this.
DOGGETTJA wrote:
Who besides Haliburton hasbenefitted from all this?
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ff12
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Posted: Sep 22nd, 2006 04:20 am |
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Has anyone else heard about how a majority of the Iraqi people have welcomed us? Most people that have been there say that is true. The truck driver from Louisiana that was kidnapped and rescued by our soldiers told in the Progressive Journal(this is a farm publication , he is a farmer who took the job to get out of some debt) how he was welcomed by most everyone he met. Even one of his captors helped fre him.
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Steve Adkins
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Posted: Sep 24th, 2006 12:52 am |
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ff12 wrote: Has anyone else heard about how a majority of the Iraqi people have welcomed us? Most people that have been there say that is true. The truck driver from Louisiana that was kidnapped and rescued by our soldiers told in the Progressive Journal(this is a farm publication , he is a farmer who took the job to get out of some debt) how he was welcomed by most everyone he met. Even one of his captors helped fre him.
Yes, I have seen photos of folks that went there, gave balls, bats, soccer balls, etc to the kids and had some really good times.
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PeachMan
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Posted: Sep 25th, 2006 01:52 pm |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYNI5RPOlp4 < video link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQmrtuQUnI < video link
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060925/D8KBR21G0.html < article
I've always thought that people act really defensive when what they're being accused of is true.(see Bill Clinton)
How can he compare 8 years of literally letting Bin Laden go to Bush sending thousands of US troops after him post-9/11? & how in the HECK can he make the statement about the current Administration not being questioned about such things?, the current Administration is questioned, trashed and ran through the ringer constantly/every single day about UBL and Iraq and anything else bad that happens in the World.
Last edited on Sep 25th, 2006 01:52 pm by PeachMan
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PeachMan
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Posted: Sep 25th, 2006 01:54 pm |
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Yep, it's Mr. Maul....the Lib's would compare him to VP Dick Cheney. 
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ff12
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Posted: Sep 25th, 2006 03:06 pm |
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| Speaking of liberals we only have to look at our own State goverment. Democrat Jim Black who in the face of proof of bribery will not step down. People on his staff connected to lottery games,but that would not cause any undue influence. No more so than former Ag Comm Meg scott Phipps campaign accepting contributions from the company that just happened to get the contract for the NC State fair after she took office. Besides she only had a token relation to Agriculture operations which is a requirement for office.
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ff12
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Posted: Sep 25th, 2006 03:08 pm |
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We also had the former absentee Sen. John Edwards. He even claimed he was one of the common people.
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macca
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Posted: Sep 25th, 2006 03:18 pm |
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We started out so well without criticizing people, just discussing issues.....
If you want to talk about this kind of thing, examples can be cited from either side....
What about Trudy Wade (I don't think she'd appreciate being called a "liberal"), who even though the voters elected her opponent refused to give up the seat?? ♥♥♥
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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FatPappy
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Posted: Sep 25th, 2006 03:37 pm |
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We was all out o' raw meat an' gunpowder fer breakfast, so I reckon I'm gonna crawl back up on the porch fer a bit an' let the big dogs have at it.
Meanwhile, here's a poem I found y'all might have fun maulin' while I'm gone.
The Blind Men and the Elephant
It was six men of Indostan, to learning much inclined,
who went to see the elephant (Though all of them were blind),
that each by observation, might satisfy his mind.
The first approached the elephant, and, happening to fall,
against his broad and sturdy side, at once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the elephant, is nothing but a wall!"
The second feeling of the tusk, cried: "Ho! what have we here,
so very round and smooth and sharp? To me tis mighty clear,
this wonder of an elephant, is very like a spear!"
The third approached the animal, and, happening to take,
the squirming trunk within his hands, "I see," quoth he,
the elephant is very like a snake!"
The fourth reached out his eager hand, and felt about the knee:
"What most this wondrous beast is like, is mighty plain," quoth he;
"Tis clear enough the elephant is very like a tree."
The fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said; "E'en the blindest man
can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an elephant, is very like a fan!"
The sixth no sooner had begun, about the beast to grope,
than, seizing on the swinging tail, that fell within his scope,
"I see," quothe he, "the elephant is very like a rope!"
And so these men of Indostan, disputed loud and long,
each in his own opinion, exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right, and all were in the wrong!
So, oft in theologic wars, the disputants, I ween,
tread on in utter ignorance, of what each other mean,
and prate about the elephant, not one of them has seen!
John Godfrey Saxe (1816 - 1887)
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
--Abraham Lincoln
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macca
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Posted: Sep 25th, 2006 03:44 pm |
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| As usual, Pappy, you have a way of putting things into perspective.... Thanks!♥♥♥
____________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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