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macca Member

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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 12:41 pm |
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So those families, who spend money in our town while they are here, should take their kids elsewhere? None of these farms you helped clear for ballfields when you were younger were across the line in Rockingham or Stokes County?
____________________ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 01:57 pm |
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macca wrote: So those families, who spend money in our town while they are here, should take their kids elsewhere? None of these farms you helped clear for ballfields when you were younger were across the line in Rockingham or Stokes County?
With regard to your first point, I again suggest that the citizens and Town of Stokesdale have no obligation toward those kids. If they choose to utilize recreational facilities here, then they should be subject to paying a user fee.
With regard to your second question, the answer is No. The Stokesdale kids in those days only used whatever facilities we had here in Stokesdale (Guilford County).
The greater question I suppose is what obligation if any, any town owes to those living outside of their corporate town limits. And my personal answer is: very little.
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macca Member

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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 02:03 pm |
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ALL participants in recreation programs pay to play, unless they cannot afford to. Then scholarships are provided for them.
____________________ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 02:09 pm |
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macca wrote: ALL participants in recreation programs pay to play, unless they cannot afford to. Then scholarships are provided for them.
I was not aware of that, but I do agree that that is the way it should be. Perhaps if they simply charged them all a little more that would provide the funds needed for all these new fields you mentioned that are needed?
I will be more than happy to contribute to the scholarship fund for disadvantaged kids. They especially deserve our attention and support.
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Cracker Jax Member

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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 03:04 pm |
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I tried so hard not to jump in here...... Darn it. Y'all can run me back over to SF if you want to.
I see Jim's point that Stokesdale isn't OBLIGATED to provide ballfields for Summerfield's (or any other town's kids), however, I'm not clear if he feels that the town is obligated to pay for ballfields for Stokesdale's kids.
As for paying more, I can't pay more than I'm paying. We're not talking 5-10 bucks here Jim. We're talking (In Summerfield anyway) a minimum of $100.00 per kid per sport. Lots more if they need equipment or if you want pictures or trophys. Gone are the days when kids hit the ballfields in their KMart tennis shoes and Jeans.....
Speaking as a SF kid who grew up next to Greensboro, If it hadn't been for Greensboro's Rec Centers, parks, Libraries and other amenities paid for by their taxpayers, Lots of kids wouldn't have had all of the wonderful opportunities that we had when we were growing up.
It's not like macca's proposing that you provide ballfields exclusively for SF and surrounding towns. Greensboro provided the above listed amenities for their children and we were fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of them as well. Often times were were offered different opportunities than were offered out here. I don't know about Stokesdale, but in Summerfield, we don't have soccer or football. Kids have to go to neighboring towns to play these sports.
I just think it's a good thing.
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Starcatchr Member

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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 03:07 pm |
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Jim Flynt wrote: macca wrote: It also doesn't account for kids in neighboring communities who feel a connection to Stokesdale and participate in activities here.
Sorry Macca, but I don't think the citizens nor the Town of Stokesdale have any obligation to provide recreation for those kids.
This has been a most interesting and informative debate. One of my concerns would be the exclusion of kids outside the town limits. We have built walls around our neighborhoods. Please let's not build walls around our towns. I'm thankful that free services in Greensboro such as the libraries, museum, gardens, and parks are available to outlying areas. Also, at the present time, the pools, tennis courts, ball fields, and many and varied classes offered by their parks and rec are available at the same rate for us as for those who live in the city.
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Cracker Jax Member

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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 03:14 pm |
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Starcatchr wrote: Jim Flynt wrote: macca wrote: It also doesn't account for kids in neighboring communities who feel a connection to Stokesdale and participate in activities here.
Sorry Macca, but I don't think the citizens nor the Town of Stokesdale have any obligation to provide recreation for those kids.
This has been a most interesting and informative debate. One of my concerns would be the exclusion of kids outside the town limits. We have built walls around our neighborhoods. Please let's not build walls around our towns. I'm thankful that free services in Greensboro such as the libraries, museum, gardens, and parks are available to outlying areas. Also, at the present time, the pools, tennis courts, ball fields, and many and varied classes offered by their parks and rec are available at the same rate for us as for those who live in the city.
Wow Starcatchr! You know what they say about great minds......
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 05:14 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote: I see Jim's point that Stokesdale isn't OBLIGATED to provide ballfields for Summerfield's (or any other town's kids), however, I'm not clear if he feels that the town is obligated to pay for ballfields for Stokesdale's kids. Speaking as a SF kid who grew up next to Greensboro, If it hadn't been for Greensboro's Rec Centers, parks, Libraries and other amenities paid for by their taxpayers, Lots of kids wouldn't have had all of the wonderful opportunities that we had when we were growing up.
Greensboro provided the above listed amenities for their children and we were fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of them as well. Often times were were offered different opportunities than were offered out here. I don't know about Stokesdale, but in Summerfield, we don't have soccer or football. Kids have to go to neighboring towns to play these sports.
Crackah, I will try and answer your question and share my thoughts on your other comments.
As you can no doubt tell from most if not all of my posts, I subscribe to the school of thought and political philosophy that we should only look to government for those things we cannot do for ourselves. I believe that government should be our resource and solution of last resort, not first resort. Where and while others see government as the solution to problems, I generally see government as the core of our problems.
Having said that, my earlier questions to Macca were an attempt to understand the scope of what the problem is in Stokesdale with regard to a scarcity of playing fields? It is difficult to address solutions until we can quantify that scope of need versus demand.
As I have further stated in several threads, I fully support the creation of more parks in Stokesdale and throughout the Northwest. I further support the preservation of more open space, woodland and agrarian lands for the benefit of future generations. I for one, am willing to help pay for those additional parks as well as roll up my sleeves and help to find innovative ways to achieve those goals. I believe even more intensely that a 'park' should be more than playing fields. Especially single use playing fields. As someone mentioned, there are no soccer or football fields available here in Stokesdale or Summerfield, and that simply ought to be unacceptable.
If you will recall, a week or so ago, I suggested in one of the Forum threads that the three communities of Oak Ridge, Summerfield and Stokesdale should have discussions about regional planning issues as well as discussions about a regional park which could provide greater resources for all of the Northwest communities. Through economies of scale, much more in the way of offerings could be made available to our Northwest youth than would likely be available only through the efforts of any one town. A larger consortium might well provide those football fields, soccer fields, and various and sundry other opportunities which would otherwise be lost. My line of thinking would be that such a regional park might also increase the possibilities for more county and state funding than the smaller grant programs offer, which would result in a greater net benefit for all.
If you will carefully read my earlier comments, my criticism of the Stokesdale Town Council was not in the purchase of the acreage or their concept for a park at that location. I fully support that concept. My criticism was and is that the relocation to that site for the construction of a new town hall sends the wrong signal for the historic and vital town core, and it will further lack the central access and visibility that a town hall should have. With the possible exception of Oak Ridge which Sandra points out, most of us would be extremely hard pressed to name more than a handful of towns which do not have their town halls or government centers in the central business district of those communities.
Recall that several writers here a week or so ago were saying how prescient were the visionaries who envisioned and then planned and constructed Central Park in New York City were. But those visionaries did not build that park in the middle of Queens or the Bronx or Brooklyn and that is in fact, why it is today called CENTRAL PARK. I doubt many here and even most in New York could name even one or two parks located in those other boroughs.
Like Crackah, I too grew up enjoying the benefits of some of the offerings which Greensboro provided to those of us who were country bumpkins living outside of the city.
I appreciated those opportunities then and they enhanced my life and growth as a teenager and have continued to enhance my life as an adult.
However in fairness to the City of Greensboro and the Greensboro taxpayers, I would not have objected nor would it have deterred my use if the City had charged 'outsiders' a 'users fee' (which if I am to understand correctly, they do to some extent charge for some activities today). (I subscribe as well to the "there is no such thing as free lunch" theory). I think the concept of user fees should certainly be looked at as an additional source of funding revenue. I also believe some sort of interchange agreement should be negotiated or acknowledged which would allow kids and citizens from Stokesdale, Summerfield and Oak Ridge to share in the use of the parks and recreational facilities of all three communities without charge.
If one examines closely the changing demographics of an aging population, it becomes clear that government is having a more and more difficult challenge in continuing to provide services without raising taxes, which generally none of us support. Government at every level is seeking innovative ways to provide funding including a lottery to supplement educational needs and privatization of services to leverage capital costs. Therefore, one of the most difficult challenges ahead for government and taxpayers will be trying to prioritize those needs which are most essential for the well being for the greatest number of citizens.
Government at every level has recognized what we as citizens must recognize as well, the ever decreasing supply of government funding resources with the ever increasing demand for services. With obviously looming shortfalls for a continuous expansion of government services and citizen wish lists.
Therefore, your question with regard to what obligations a town owes her citizens is a question larger than one person or one group or one taxpayer is entitled to answer. I do know that there are senior citizens in our community on fixed incomes who barely have enough to make ends meet and lower income dual working families overworked and stretched to the maximum with costs of living. And while they may constitute a small minority, I do not believe that they should be required to sacrifice much for the enjoyment of the few. And in many cases, a privileged few.
The first question the governing should ask before voting for an expenditure should be: is this an absolutely essential service which cannot be provided outside of government and does it benefit all of the members of the community. If the answer is no to either, it does not represent to me, an expenditure which should be made with community funds.
So, while I do support the playing fields for this new proposed Stokesdale Park, I do think there are certainly limits to the number of playing fields and new parks that can or should be built. And that can and should be financially maintained on an ongoing basis through the resources of the local towns. And I also think that the forces which are driving the increased demand, i.e., new growth, should be asked to pay their fair share for the new parks that will be required as these Northwest area communities continue to grow. By either a direct pro-rata assessment added to the planning and development costs to the developers or to the price of new lots in these communities.
Last edited on Jan 29th, 2007 07:06 pm by Jim Flynt
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FatPappy Member

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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 06:57 pm |
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Interestin' discussion.
As far as combinin' the resources of the three NW towns to make a regional park, Pappy's a little leery o' the savin's that consolidation offers after seein' the "benefits" o' the Guilford County/Greensboro City school merger. I say keep it simple.
Last edited on Jan 29th, 2007 06:58 pm by FatPappy
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Hairbrush Member
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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 07:05 pm |
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Okay, I wasn't going to jump in and you can chase me back to Summerfield also. I love the idea of a town hall downtown but I also understand the concern that as the town grows will there be enough space to house all the government services in the same place. I mean way back in the day New Bern was the capital of North Carolina but some where along the way someone had the vision to move the capital. If I was to guess it probably had something to do with transportation and trade routes but I do know that it was one of the few US cities planned and built to serve as the state's capital.
Now as for the ball fields I think we do owe our children (whether we have some or not) a safe place to play. I also want these children to be healthy and happy. Obesity is on the rise and eventually my tax money may be help paying for these children's insurance as they get older. I do believe it takes a village to raise a child. If I am going to pay taxes to a town then I want to be able to spend my money on something I will get a return on and I feel children are the best investment.
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 07:53 pm |
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I sure am glad that a majority of folks here in Stokesdale aren't in love with the concepts of all the big tax and spenders over in Summerfield.
Quite frankly the poor folks over here in Stokesdale couldn't afford your tax and spend ideas. I would be willing to bet that there is not an inconsiderable number of people over in Summerfield who likely feel the same way.
I still love all of ya'll, but you obviously look to and love big government while some of us still think less government is more.
Last edited on Jan 29th, 2007 07:54 pm by Jim Flynt
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 29th, 2007 08:09 pm |
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As a footnote to my last post, I still find it interesting that despite all of the comments portraying a great need for more playing fields in Summerfield or Stokesdale, that not one single poster has quantified that need. Which begs the question of whether the need advanced is more perceived than real?
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FatPappy Member

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Posted: Jan 30th, 2007 01:14 am |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
As a footnote to my last post, I still find it interesting that despite all of the comments portraying a great need for more playing fields in Summerfield or Stokesdale, that not one single poster has quantified that need.
Dang, Mr Jim, as much ground as your arguments are coverin', I figger if we wait long enough, you'll get around to quantifyin' it fer us, just to make sure we do it right. 
The parks an' rec situation we're talkin' about is not gonna turn old people out in the street. I think that's a ridiculous argument in this case. Are we talkin' general theory or a partic'lar case, because the broad arguments you make don't always apply to specific cases. Big tax an' spenders? I don't see any outrageous tax an' spend goin' on in this particular case. We've done right well, I think.
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ff12 Member

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Posted: Jan 30th, 2007 02:30 am |
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I played ball for Harry Osbourne akaSanta Claus , in the 80's and in mite league we played in Oak Ridge. Little league in Stokesdale where there were 4 teams total, most of our team including myself lived in Rockingham county. Pony league team was made up of both sides of the border and we played at Colfax , lewis Rec. and that field you can se from Wendover. Colt league was with mainly peple from NW high school and we played at Stoner White Stadium. I write this to compare what 20 years difference makes, there are so many kids playing in Stokesdale its unbelievable, and thnaks to Greensboro parks for allowing us to play there. And as far as playing where you live not everyone has the same oppurtunities, thanks to Stokesdale for letting us kids from across the border have a place to play.
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ff12 Member

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Posted: Mar 26th, 2007 06:51 pm |
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Will the new park have fields enough for adult softball tournaments? It will be in a place where the neighbors wont be as affected as the old ballfield. of course if it had been properly patrolled back then maybe the neighbors would have had to be so against people parking in there yards and such.
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