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DOGGETTJA Member
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Posted: Jan 5th, 2007 10:39 am |
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I also wonder how they can have that rezoning approved when they have not forfilled the conditions on the previous zoning. I am not sure that Jim does not have a good idea that some No to Armfield signs shouldn't go up in Summerfield.
This is exactly what we worried about with the zoning ordinances and open space 10 years ago. Developers would come in promise all this open space to get their development and then come back years later and try to use the open space to develop.
I hope there is a lot of oposition Tuesday to this.
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 5th, 2007 11:35 am |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: I am not sure that Jim does not have a good idea that some No to Armfield signs shouldn't go up in Summerfield.
Jane please let me know if you need a contribution to the 'No To Armfield' sign fund. I would be more than happy to contribute.
Last edited on Jan 5th, 2007 11:36 am by Jim Flynt
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summerfieldrd Banned
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Posted: Jan 5th, 2007 11:39 am |
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Jim Flynt wrote: DOGGETTJA wrote: I am not sure that Jim does not have a good idea that some No to Armfield signs shouldn't go up in Summerfield.
Jane please let me know if you need a contribution to the 'No To Armfield' sign fund. I would be more than happy to contribute.
I second that!
____________________ The only constant in the universe is change.
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macca Member
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Posted: Jan 5th, 2007 12:03 pm |
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summerfieldrd wrote:
Jim Flynt wrote: DOGGETTJA wrote: I am not sure that Jim does not have a good idea that some No to Armfield signs shouldn't go up in Summerfield.
Jane please let me know if you need a contribution to the 'No To Armfield' sign fund. I would be more than happy to contribute.
I second that!
Surely with all that wood Pappy has had Mammy choppin' there is enough scraps to make some darn good signs!!! I can help with the spellin'!
____________________ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 9th, 2007 10:49 am |
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I was tipped off yesterday (and have confirmed) that Summerfield Properties, LLC. deeded 30 +/- acres to the Town of Summerfield on December 29, 2006 (the last business day of 2006) at 4:37 PM. The deed is recorded in Guilford County at Deed Book 6656, Pages 744-747. Obviously, by recording such a deed on the last day of the year, whomever recorded it, had to have been aware and probably desirous of the fact that this real estate transfer information would not be published in the local newspapers nor made public prior to tonight's Summerfield Town Council meeting.
As a note, a 'grantor' cannot legally deed property to a grantee without the permission of a 'grantee', so the question arises as to whether or not the Town of Summerfield had adopted a resolution to accept this 30 acres, or whether this is simply an ill conceived yet shameless stunt to surprise the Summerfield Town Council with tonight in hopes of providing the developer with a bargaining chip. In any event, it would seem to certainly indicate that the Armfield developer is trying to force the Town of Summerfield into accepting what would be a good deal for the developer and a bad deal for the Town of Summerfield.
Anyone can verify the information I have posted here about this real estate transfer by simply visiting the website for the Guilford County Register of Deeds and then doing a property transfer search.
I plan on attending the Summerfield Town Council meeting tonight to see how this drama unfolds.
My questions to all are:
What's Up?
What's the Inside Scoop?
Is the 'fix' in?
Has a 'deal' already been 'done' behind the scenes in some smoke filled backroom?
Last edited on Jan 9th, 2007 10:58 am by Jim Flynt
____________________ "Take no prisoners"
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Posted: Jan 9th, 2007 11:48 am |
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Jim that is pretty interesting. I was not aware that the Town had finished negotiating the park issue with Armfield's but maybe they had.
Again I hope the council will listen to the zoning board and turn down therequest to rezone 50 more houses? Was the number of houses requested the first time not part of the conditions of rezoning? Can a developer just come back in later years and say " Oh yeah we don't like those conditions so here are some different ones?"
I hope the residents in Armfields come down and offer opinions tonight because I think they have the right to expect to live in a certain community with out it suddenly enlarging tremendously. Armfield's was sold as a community that open space was important and with lower density now suddenly its not so important.
I feel like the Town has never been told the truth from the beginning on this project and that atitude continues.
Look forward to seeing you tonight Jim and hope lots of others.
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 9th, 2007 11:53 am |
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Jane, one other note that I might add. It is my understanding from the 'word on the street' in the real estate (development) community (from sources which have been reliable in the past), that the reason for this request for higher density for the Armfield project, is because the current developer has experienced less than expected financial returns and that a large (national) builder is waiting in the wings to buy this project or the project lots IF the Town of Summerfield ups the density and gives in to the current developer's demands. Should this occur, the promises made by the current developer would thus be passed along to the new buyer to fulfill. A second developer I might add, who may or may not elect to even follow what would amount to the first developer's new second agreement or set of conditions on developing this property. The same first developer, who I might also add, failed to keep his promises for his first set of zoning and development conditions.
The plot thickens.
Last edited on Jan 9th, 2007 12:47 pm by Jim Flynt
____________________ "Take no prisoners"
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summerfieldrd Banned
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Posted: Jan 9th, 2007 06:02 pm |
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Thank you, Jim!
____________________ The only constant in the universe is change.
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macca Member
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Posted: Jan 10th, 2007 02:11 am |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
I plan on attending the Summerfield Town Council meeting tonight to see how this drama unfolds.
My questions to all are:
What's Up?
What's the Inside Scoop?
Is the 'fix' in?
Has a 'deal' already been 'done' behind the scenes in some smoke filled backroom?
So, Jimbo, I see that you're on the forum now.... Inquirin' minds want to know......
____________________ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 10th, 2007 02:17 am |
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Macca, I will leave it to the Summerfield folks to give you all the details but will say that the Town Council voted (unanimously I think) to continue the Armfield rezoning hearing until their February meeting.
I did happen to see Sandra, Cracker, Hairbrush and Jane and lots of others folks who I knew and it was good to see Jane out and about and looking a lot better than her words have described. Pappy was probably there too, but we missed each other amongst the large crowd of real estate developers and builders.
Oh. And I did finally get to see this 'Mom' I keep hearing about.
Since this was my first visit to a Summerfield Town Council meeting, I suppose it can be said that I have finally lost my innocence.
____________________ "Take no prisoners"
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macca Member
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Posted: Jan 10th, 2007 02:24 am |
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Jim Flynt wrote:
Oh. And I did finally get to see this 'Mom' I keep hearing about.
Since this was my first visit to a Summerfield Town Council meeting, I suppose it can be said that I have finally lost my innocence.
To quote a wise man: "Tee Hee"! Thanks for the update! Looking forward to more details!! ♥♥♥
____________________ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright
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Cracker Jax Member
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Posted: Jan 10th, 2007 04:55 am |
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I think Carolyn Collins summed this one up when she said "This is a mess!"
Before I begin, let's make it clear that we are not dealing with the same people who made the original promise to Summerfield. I don't really know what the legalities are when it comes to holding the new folks to the promises made by the original developers so I'll leave all of that to Jane.
I do want to say that from everything I've seen and heard from and about the new Armfield managers or whatever they are called, they seem to be pretty straightforward and on the up and up. And for the record, I do not know, nor have I ever met any of them personally.
As for the meeting tonight, the land was deeded to Summerfield as Jim Flynt stated, and the Armfield folks admitted that it was done this way for tax reasons (so they wouldn't have to pay tax on the property) but it was also pretty clear to me that they did not do so for any reasons other than the tax reasons and that they didn't want the rezoning case to be misconstrued as being contingent on the park land donation.
After discussion and questions directed at the Armfield folks, the council voted to deed the property back to Armfield (with them paying all costs) until it is voted on to accept or not accept the donation. (for liability reasons)
Armfield it appears was on the verge of bankruptcy before the current investors stepped forward and took over the reins to try to save it. Now the average person might say "so what?"
However, if you think about it, do we really want a portion of our community to be in that kind of trouble? First of all, if they go bankrupt, Summerfield gets NOTHING. Also, though it is not the town's sole responsibility to swoop in and single handedly save Armfield or any other development, do we not have some type of obligation to our community as a whole and to the residents of the 33 homes already established in Armfield to do what we can to help?
Several residents of Armfield spoke up tonight in approval of the new rezoning. They said that the new investors had bent over backward to do everything they could to make the residents happy and had always followed through on promises made since taking the reins. Residents of Armfield were notified 4 times of the proposed rezoning and several attended information sessions with the investors. No Armfield residents spoke in opposition.
It was stated tonight that if they were to go bankrupt and the land was sold to the government (who'd love to have a large, attractive chunk of land such as this) then what's to stop them from putting slab homes or tract housing etc. there?
Anyway, evidently a lot of info (other than the surprise deed issue) came to the forefront AFTER the zoning board denied this rezoning so a lot of new info needed to be considered by council before making a decision.
Council discussion:
Crawford asked to continue it so the zoning board could revisit it. Robin Smith stated that it would have to be denied and taken back to the zoning board.
Dena restated the disadvantages of foreclosure and the threat of twin homes or worse.
Williams asked if there were any zoning board concerns that weren't addressed. Robin told him that she thought everything had been covered. (side note: wasn't there something about frogs? Amphibians? Maybe someone who was there could clarify if that was noteworthy or not)
Strickland motioned to deny the rezoning, (she didn't state her reason, but I think it was so they could take the new info back to the zoning board) but the motion died for lack of a second.
Crawford motioned to continue it until next month and Carolyn seconded.
Motion carried and we'll be doing it all again next month.
Strickland did announce that she did not want to be "lobbied" by any contractors, developers or builders regarding this issue.
____________________ Opinions in this post are mine. Do not copy, distribute, mass mail or quote out of context without my consent.
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StewartM Member
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Posted: Jan 10th, 2007 11:22 am |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Williams asked if there were any zoning board concerns that weren't addressed. Robin told him that she thought everything had been covered. (side note: wasn't there something about frogs? Amphibians? Maybe someone who was there could clarify if that was noteworthy or not)
They put extra pipe under the road for the frogs to cross (Why did the frog cross the road?)
Strickland did announce that she did not want to be "lobbied" by any contractors, developers or builders regarding this issue.
What? A elected official who will not listen to voters..
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 10th, 2007 12:17 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
It was stated tonight that if they were to go bankrupt and the land was sold to the government (who'd love to have a large, attractive chunk of land such as this) then what's to stop them from putting slab homes or tract housing etc. there?
Which government? Local? State? Federal?
When was the last time that any 'government' stepped in and bought land at foreclosure?
The argument is specious.
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Jim Flynt Member
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Posted: Jan 10th, 2007 12:24 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Before I begin, let's make it clear that we are not dealing with the same people who made the original promise to Summerfield. I don't really know what the legalities are when it comes to holding the new folks to the promises made by the original developers so I'll leave all of that to Jane.
Zoning laws are such that zoning and zoning conditions attach to a property and not to the individual. When a government body rezones a property, that rezoning and whatever uses are allowed in the particular zoning district, attach to the property, and those conditions neither expand nor contract under any new or different ownership.
I do not think that the Summerfield Town Council was clear on this concept last night, and I hope they will wake up to an understanding that there is never any guarantee that once a property is rezoned it will be developed by the owner requesting the change. It happens all the time that developers do not purchase a property until after the property is rezoned for a higher use. (The 'Shields family' land at the intersection of Highway 68 and Haw River (Bethel Church) Road) in Stokesdale is a perfect example of this.
Our governments should be of laws and not men.
Zoning laws follow that same precept in that land use laws and regulations regulate the use of a property without regard to person so long as the person meets the requirements of that zoning district and they do not vary from man to man given the same zoning district. (I do think the Summerfield Town Council missed this point last night and probably does in general as well).
Last edited on Jan 10th, 2007 12:39 pm by Jim Flynt
____________________ "Take no prisoners"
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