| Moderated by: Steve Adkins | Topic closed | |
| Author | Post | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Anna Diemer Member
|
I'm not sure how much those of you who are not in high school or do not have children in high school know about the parking situation at Northwest, but in my opinion, it's a fiasco. Here's the system: All the parking spots were numbered, and at the beginning of the year, students came and stood in line to get a good spot. Obviously, everyone was not satisfied with their parking spot, and many people who got to school early because they have a "zero" period had to park incredibly far away from the school, even though the rest of the parking lot was three-quarters empty. Before too long, there were no more parking spots left at the school. I went at the beginning of the year to try to secure a parking spot, although I could not get my license until October. Officer Pass told my mother and me that this was not allowed; however, there were people who didn't have their license who got parking spots. Also, when a student gets in a wreck, they loan their parking spot to their friends. This is unfair to those who have been on the waiting list since school started. Frankly, I think that the whole system was a mess. A vote to change the student parking was scheduled to take place at the high school, but it never happened. I heard that the new principal, Mr. Kidd, said that the current parking situation would do for the second semester. Since the space is limited, I think that the parking should be a privilege for only upperclassmen and those who have a "zero" period. I have a parking spot in the temporary lot beside the vocational building right now because my father is recuperating from surgery and I no longer have a ride to school. However, I do not want to lose my parking privilege after these six weeks are up. I have a "zero" period class, and I often stay after school for clubs and rehearsals for the musical, and it is a nuisance for my parents to drive back and forth an extra half-hour out of their way to pick me up from school. Any thoughts on this issue? I know that I am a strongly opinionated young lady, but I don't like to be deprived of privileges because of someone else's poor planning. |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member 
|
Anna... I don't have this problem yet, however I am interested because it will be an issue for my child next year. While some changes might need to be made immediately when a new principal comes on the scene, he must choose his battles wisely and take time to think them through....If he's a good one anyway. I don't know how OP feels about the parking procedure, but I am assuming it was his idea and he likes it as is. Mr. Kidd probably doesn't want to alienate staff by "nay saying" staff ideas until he can see how they work and offer solutions. Just a guess. I do have a question about your proposal. You say that only upperclassmen and zero period kids get parking spots.... what about kids who are in after school activities and sports? I would think some parking system is needed, otherwise 100 kids might show up one day and there would be no spots left. I definitely don't think everyone is going to be happy, no matter what system is implemented. |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Anna, This has been a popular topic of conversation in our household this year. My daughter got her license in October and there were no parking spots left in the student lot. Because she has a zero period and several after school activities, like you, she was able to get a temporary parking pass for the vocational building lot. It is my opinion that because there is no bus service for zero period, the school must provide parking for any student taking a zero period class. It is also my opinion that parking at school is a privilege, not a right. I believe that grades and conduct should be used as criteria for parking privileges in addition to zero period (I would think any student motivated enough to take an extra and EARLY class probably has good grades anyway!) And I agree with you, upperclassmen should have first dibs. I heard all about the vote that never happened. Actually, I think maybe it was a good idea that it didn't happen. There has already been so much confusion and hard feelings over the parking fiasco. It would probably be better to just start over next year with a well planned and thought out parking policy. And I think that's the root of the problem right there -there just wasn't enough planning from the start this year. |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member 
|
Anna, good forum. It's refreshing to hear about some of the "other issues" that concern students. This one has also been a topic of concern at our household There is nothing wrong with "strongly opinionated" persons who are willing to listen to others. It beats those that walk around with a "don't care" attitude. Last edited on Jan 21st, 2006 02:09 am by Steve Adkins |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
I'll add one more thing - driving for teenagers (and even some adults  ) should be a privilege and not a right. I think if more parents would believe this and put their foot down, we wouldn't even have a parking problem at Northwest. OK, where's Cracker's soapbox. I need it. |
|||||||||||
|
Bubba Guest
|
There has been a lot of talk about this and with a school at 2300 students, most of which can drive - can't fit into 709 parking spaces! I do know that only 2 things were changed in how you got a parking pass last year from all previous years. PTSA volunteers did not help OP (PTSA has never been in charge of distributing passes) and the spaces were numbered. Things that stayed the same - Seniors and Juniors were sold to first. They had so many, overflow took all but 6 (Hello!!! 6) spots that went to sophmores in the lower lot. I can not believe how many people have gotten mad about this and directed most of that anger to OP, instead to all the parents that LIED to get a pass for their child. I hope there are numbered parking spots next year, but I know OP will be making changes this time and not do what has always been done. Last edited on Jan 21st, 2006 03:42 am by |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Bubba wrote: I can not believe how many people have gotten mad about this and directed most of that anger to OP, instead to all the parents that LIED to get a pass for their child. I think part of the problem from the very beginning was that Officer Pass was naive to the lengths students (and their PARENTS) would go to in order to get a parking pass. I think Officer Pass is one of the nicest people I have ever met and that's the thing - he's so nice that he probably never anticipated that some people would be dishonest for a square of asphalt. I think that assigned parking spots are a problem because it gives folks the mistaken impression that they OWN that square of asphalt. I know that Officer Pass has tried to get some students who are not even using their spot to give it up and they and their PARENTS won't do it. They think they own it and it is their right to keep it - whether they are using it or not. That's ridiculous. I have gone to the school in the middle of the day, driven through the entire student lot and counted the number of empty parking spots. One day, I counted over 100 empty spots. Several of these "belong" to students that I know who are not even driving to school. Some of them got the parking spot in August and they didn't even have a drivers license at that time. I hope when passes are sold next year that things will be handled more thoroughly. |
|||||||||||
|
Vicki White-Lawrence Member 
|
I do not have a student at the high school at this time, but I was involved for several years with PTSA when we were asked to sell the passes for the school. (This was when everyone who wanted a space could have one, because there weren't that many students eligible. PTSA volunteers had no power in detemining who got a space and who didn't; we just sold the permits as a service to the school.) As has been noted, the problem is that now there are not enough spaces for everyone who wants one -- yet another issue for a school with too many students. Are students who wish to purchase a permit required to SHOW their driver's license? That would take care of a lot of the issue as to who is or isn't eligible to drive at the time they go on sale, usually just before school starts. If people are "offended" by having to prove their eligibility -- too bad. We have to do that all the time when we wish to participate in something that is restricted -- ie, purchase alcohol or tobacco, vote, etc. It shows we are indeed eligible. I agree with Kris about parking/driving being a privilege as well. Don't athletes and others who participate in extracurricular activities have to maintain a certain GPA and standard of behavior? Our problem, as Bubba pointed out, is that each class gets bigger and bigger. If there are just over 700 parking spaces, spaces are sold to seniors first and 700 seniors purchase them, only seniors will be able to drive to school. Maybe, as has been suggested, other criteria needs to be considered...Of course, we need to encourage more carpooling, but then you get into the issue of parents needing to be sure they know who their child is with and that they are responsible.... EVERY child who is 16 doesn't need to be driving to school, and of course there is the restriction about having passengers in the car for a while after you obtain your license. A lot of it gets back to parental responsibility and sharing resources. Some people are going to push for everything because they think it is "due" them, without thinking about the impact it might have on someone else who really NEEDS a parking space..... I don't know what the solution is, and I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make the decision about it! Are Officer Pass, administrators, Leadership Team, etc seeking input from students/parents? It seems if they got a head start on next year, let people have a voice and then got the word out early about what the criteria is and who would and wouldn't be eligible, then there would be less hard feelings about it. I would hope everyone would be working together on this.... To keep it in perspective, I'm sure there are other high schools in Guilford County who would like to have this as the"hot" issue that is disturbing their students. |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Good post Vicki! OK, one more thing to say (I've got Crackeritis on this subject  ) I have heard that there are students with parking passes who have been kicked off the bus (banned from riding the school bus). HELLO, what is wrong with this picture?? If my child did something so bad as to be banned from the bus, he/she would have to be chauffeured to school by me. I'd put big pink curlers in my hair and wear a bathrobe and big fuzzy slippers. I would drop shem off right at the front of the school and I'd get out for a stretch when we arrived  Problem solved.Last edited on Jan 22nd, 2006 03:05 am by Kris McNeill |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member 
|
WOULDN'T IT BE NICE IF MORE PARENTS APPROACHED IT THIS WAY, INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE SCHOOL AND DEFENDING WHATEVER IT WAS THAT LITTLE JOHNNY/JANIE DID, OR BLAMING IT ON SOMEONE ELSE? OR INSISTING THAT, SINCE THE PARENTS "HAVE DONE SO MUCH FOR THE SCHOOL" OR "THIS ONE LITTLE INCIDENT SHOULDN'T RUIN MY CHILD'S LIFE" THEN THE ADMINISTRATORS SHOULD PRETEND IT DIDN'T HAPPEN? BTW: How did these students get parking permits? Or are they using someone else's space? |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
YOU GO GIRL! I just love a mom in pink curlers! |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member 
|
Lets think of it this way.....if there is no control there is usually mayheim. Most of society is controlled one way or the other by some rule or regulation. It is not unusual to have control of parking at local schools. I am sure that your situation is like a lot of others who find themselves without a permit at all. Most people like to complaint about the problem without offering a solution. I guess that is the American way. I do support your efforts to make things better for yourself, but this situation is not yours alone. Others are in worse conditions and in need of being able to drive to school, however, if there are a known amount of spaces, then only the amount of spaces known can be filled. I would presume that the numbered spaces are put in for contol and to minimize the traffic hazzards on NW Sch Rd. Think on this. There are a lot of elements that add to the traffic problem there; parent driving their children to school when there is ample provision for transportation through Guilford County Schools Transportation; Students who want to drive just to be able to drive to school, not because there is a need but simply because they can. Hopefully, next year the administration team at NW High School will look at the parking situation and decide to allow only seniors, zero period students, and student driving to Weaver, and special conditions park at the school. This will minimize the amount of students driving to school. Most of the accidents that have occurred at NW is believed to be committed by students between 16-18 years of age. We need to think about other pros and cons for driving to school besides the convienence of it all. The school's population is too large to allow the convienence of driving for the sake of driving. Parents and others who are part of the problem need to think about more than themselves. This is not to you personally, but to all who read this email. It frightens me to know that I see the "all about me" attitudes in this area. It makes me ashamed to be a part. If we all would look at the parking situation with as much effort as we take trying to protect our so-called rights to do whatever we want, we can make NW and other schools better. gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
Bubba Guest
|
That's great but we also have students that have work after school, too. And with 2300 students I think with your suggestions and mine that is more then 709. One good thing about numbered spots it really, really slows down speed limit in the lot. They are not flying across an open lot to get that closest spot. Second good thing, they will get a graet feel for what most colleges are like. Most times you don't even get to have a car let alone a "space". And NW is as big or bigger then some colleges in NC. Last edited on Jan 21st, 2006 04:20 pm by |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
Lets not speculate on what is and what isn't. The truth of the matter is this; if you are a parent and have a complaint, you need to get involved. Stop jaw jacking and put their action where their mouth is. I heard that next year only those students who are seniors, zero period, and maybe Weaver student and who have a license to drive will be able to. I believe that OP has chosen a group of students made up of the Student Leadership Team and Student Council to determine the permit proceedures for next year. I say why not....student attend the school and should have input as to how parking should be setup to minimize conflict. Our children need to know how to get involved in making decisions for themselves at an early age. It was surprising to me to know that parents of seniors and juniors came to sign their child up for a parking permit; a simple procedure that a middle schooler could have performed. Maybe that was the reason for all the problems associated with parking at NW. I say enough is enough! Let's grow up act in a responsible way and help out around Northwest instead of pointing fingers. It kind of remind me of our folks in Washingon. No one takes the blame for the problem, even though we all are a part of it. gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
EditorPS Administrator 
|
gotobeme wrote: It was surprising to me to know that parents of seniors and juniors came to sign their child up for a parking permit; a simple procedure that a middle schooler could have performed. I was one of those parents -- my daughter, a junior at NW, was working at a camp in Williamsburg this summer so it wasn't possible for her to get her own parking permit. I know one student who was on a mission trip for most of the summer and three who were on family vacation the week that permits were sold, so just wanted to point out that if you saw parents buying permits for their kids, it shouldn't be assumed that it's because our kids can't handle a "middle schooler" task on their own. At least in a couple of cases I know there was a much more legitimate reason. I took off work twice in one day to get the permit for my daughter since she wasn't in town -- the first time I went, the line was ungodly long and since I hadn't planned on being gone from work a couple of hours, I had to turn around and go back. The second time I went it was much later in the afternoon and I got the permit with no problem. Having a school with 2,300 students, with some of the supporting facilities such as parking lots being built for less than half that amount is a problem for sure. I agree that a lot of kids drive to school when it's not necessary, but in fairness, also remember that many of the students are very active and either have zero period classes before the regular school day begins or tutoring, jobs, sports, clubs, or other extracurricular activities that they participate in at the end of the school day which prevents them from using the bus for transportation. Having more senior and junior students than student parking lot spaces does call for a creative solution and with classes getting larger each year (over 600 freshmen this year) we definitely can't handle parking as we have in the past. Last edited on Jan 21st, 2006 08:37 pm by EditorPS |
|||||||||||
|
Vicki White-Lawrence Member
|
Gotobeme: Unless the policy has changed, parents must sign the form verifying the information on the form.... Some parents may have accompanied their child in order to complete the form... And, as mentioned, others had extenuating circumstances that necessitated their being there.... |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
macca wrote: BTW: How did these students get parking permits? Or are they using someone else's space? Macca, from what I was told, these students got parking permits back in August by standing in that long line, filling out the paperwork and paying $5. I know it would be a lot of work for someone but I think more "investigation" needs to be done before a students receives the PARKING PRIVILEGE. Check their grades, have they been suspended before?, etc. I agree with what has been added here - students who take classes at Weaver or who have after-school jobs should get first consideration along with zero period students, athletes, band students, or other after school commitments. BUT, consider their academic standing FIRST. If my child didn't have the grades, he/she wouldn't be driving to school because he/she wouldn't even have a drivers license! A driver's license is a privilege, not a right. |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Vicki White-Lawrence wrote: Gotobeme: Unless the policy has changed, parents must sign the form verifying the information on the form.... Some parents may have accompanied their child in order to complete the form... And, as mentioned, others had extenuating circumstances that necessitated their being there.... Vicki, you are correct. Parents must sign the form. In my opinion, I think the parent should HAVE to accompany their child to get the parking privilege. And bring a copy of the student's last report card. And SHOW the students driver's license (not just write the DL number on the form). |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
gotobeme wrote: Lets not speculate on what is and what isn't. The truth of the matter is this; if you are a parent and have a complaint, you need to get involved. Stop jaw jacking and put their action where their mouth is. I think some fine suggestions have been made here. Many thanks to the NWO for providing this forum for the sharing of ideas. And thank you to Anna for starting this topic! Patti, could some of these ideas be included in the paper? Maybe this is a good topic for an article? I think that by sharing good sound ideas here, parents (and others) are being active in helping to solve the problem. Last edited on Jan 22nd, 2006 06:25 pm by Kris McNeill |
|||||||||||
|
Anna Diemer Member
|
It's so exciting for me to have provoked such interesting discussion (really, it is). This is one of the issues about Northwest that bothers me the most, and it's at least refreshing to know that something will be done eventually, and that I'm not the only person who feels the way that I do. I was actually going to write an editorial to the NWO about this, but I decided to post it on the forum first and see what happened. I'd love to see something about this in the paper. Vicki and Kris, I agree with you. Parking is a privilege that I am incredibly glad to have, and it saves my parents time as well. Also, it bothers me that the parents of children would help them to be duplicitous. What happened to southern hospitality and the pleasant manners that accompany it? It is sad that adults can be just as disrespectful as high school students and not think twice about it. But that's another topic. ^_^ Thanks for everyone's input! |
|||||||||||
|
Jacob Boyd Member 
|
Okay, as ANOTHER student at Northwest, I have not had a problem at all with the parking "problem." In fact, I was unaware that it was such an issue worth STARTING A COLUMN ABOUT (Just Kidding Anna  ). Here is the deal, in my view. It is unfair that Zero-period students did not get first choices at parking since, hey I get up an hour earlier than everyone else to be at school. However, Big whoop-de-doo. I am crying over spilled milk.As for the students' "duplicity" well, who is truly honest? Who would not take an advantage of a situation if one were given to them? HONESTLY, I definitely would loan my friend my space in order to keep my parking spot. And as for the others, you cannot change peoples' mentalities. As for the change in parking from last year, it was absolutely NECESSARY to assign students parking spaces because of the growing number of students. And as of now, Sophomores have no right to a parking spot before a Junior or Senior. Now, something worth talking about would be the "traffic issue" which I do not believe is nearly as bad as it has been in the past. I have heard that the problem will soon be remedied. |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Jacob Boyd wrote: As for the students' "duplicity" well, who is truly honest? Who would not take an advantage of a situation if one were given to them? HONESTLY, I definitely would loan my friend my space in order to keep my parking spot. And as for the others, you cannot change peoples' mentalities. Jacob, I appreciate your honesty but I must say that I KNOW of many students at Northwest who follow the rules and who would not take advantage of a situation like the parking privilege system. It is very easy to fall into the mindset of "well everyone else is doing it" but it takes real character to follow the rules even when you don't agree with the rules. |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Jacob Boyd wrote: Now, something worth talking about would be the "traffic issue" which I do not believe is nearly as bad as it has been in the past. I have heard that the problem will soon be remedied. The new car rider loop should make a big difference. If I remember right, I think it will be ready in the fall. It's about time, it's been "in the works" and "promised" by GCS for at least 2 years now. In my opinion , the traffic is just as bad as ever on Northwest School Rd - we desperately need that loop. |
|||||||||||
|
Jacob Boyd Member
|
Kris, don't get me wrong, I follow rules and I am a good student. But, unless I am asked to do otherwise, I MIGHT HAPPEN to LET one of my friends park in my spot. No one is perfect, not even those "students at Northwest who follow the rules..." All human beings are inclined to imperfection and as such, EVERYONE typically puts his or her own interests before others' sometimes. And AS a Northwest student, I would not dare to waste my time with even the THOUGHT of losing my parking permit. I have way too much to worry about anyway than being concerned with how I am going to get to school. This is all hypothetical by the way, I have not ever done this. But one thing I think would be wise for everyone to remember is that no one knows the situation that every person is in. An example would be that both my parents work during the day so I would there is NO WAY that I could afford to lose my parking permit and yes, I would use the means necessary to keep it, if it meant begging. But who would beg if they could just have a friend hold their parking spot? |
|||||||||||
|
bama80 Member 
|
hmm cha$ching cha$ching. I think I will buy some land near the school and charge ungodly prices befitting the laws of supply and demand and rent spaces to students muu hahaha. I have seen this at Universities where a business will rent maybe 5 spots and charge exorbitant rates a semester and will rent all spots with other students begging for more. I wonder why they cant get the land across the st. or other land nearby that nothing but kudzu currently inhabits. (money obviously) Even a rent/contact situation for 3-5 years would enable the property owner to make money and still retain their land for future development/enterprise. May be a good senior project to raise money for a new lot. just food for thought. However, currently I think the 0 period/ senior rule is the best fit regardless of afterschool activities (work/athletics/clubs, etc). One can always A. ride the bus 2. Carpool or C. wait a few minutes longer until someone (parent, relative, friend that already had left) come pick them up. I remember people even paying for friends gas for rides to/from things in my day. |
|||||||||||
|
Anna Diemer Member
|
Jacob, Jacob, Jacob. And once more we find another issue that we don't really agree on. ^_^ I can understand that you would lend your parking spot to a friend for a short time that you'd be gone, maybe a week or so. However, if you were to lose your car for a long time due to an accident, then you should surrender your parking spot to Officer Pass. (And this isn't just directed at you, it's toward everyone with a spot.) There have been students on the waiting list since near the beginning of the year that aren't getting to park because students lose their cars and give their spots to their friends. Of course, we are all a bit hypocritical: I know that I'd take my friend's parking space if he or she offered it to me. But if a student gets in an accident that was their fault, they should lose their parking privilege because of that. It's their responsibility to drive safely so that they can retain their privileges. I can't complain that I want a real parking spot because I doubt the system will change until next year. I can only lament that more careful thought wasn't put into the system this school year. And Jacob, I was referring more to the "duplicity" of some parents. It's twice as bad when adults, who are supposed to be mature, help their children to cheat. That's not setting a good example for the kids. Also, I've experienced parents of high schoolers being disrespectful in other ways, such as talking through concerts and performances. But of course, all you adults posting on the forum are wonderful parents who are concerned about their community and local schools (since you're here on the forums). bama, that's actually not such a bad idea. I have friends across the state who have to pay up to $120 a year to park at school. I realize that it excludes those who could not afford to "rent" a parking spot, but this is a wealthier district...I know there are families out there who have multiple students driving to school in separate cars! This is making my head spin. |
|||||||||||
|
Vicki White-Lawrence Member
|
Some good thought being given here.... Anna, Wanted to let you know that when I was involved with PTSA at the high school (when Ms. Murr was still there) we were working to try to get security cameras installed around campus, including the parking lots. We discussed increasing the cost of parking permits as a way to help cover the cost of such a system but were told by Guilford County Schools that we could not charge any more than the current rate, which at that time was $5.00, I think. I also wanted to let you know that I TOTALLY AGREE with your comments about adults being rude during meetings, performances, etc. In addition to being rude to people around them, performers, speakers, etc. they are setting a horrible example for their children. I feel very strongly about this and have considered writing an editorial about it for the paper.... |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
How would you suggest that the problem be fixed. I guess this forum is as good as having a meeting at Northwest. Maybe we can come up with good ideas. Northwest's problem is simply putting money where our mouths are. Even creating the new school will not solve the issues with such a large population constantly growing around us. I suggest this. Allowing the Senior priority choice, then students with zero periods, and students who drive to Weaver and work, and lastly a lottery for the remaining spaces. I think this will do for starters. But I still hold to the idea that parents are ultimately responsible for how their child gets to and from school; via bus, driven or walking. It is never the school's problem. The school simply get information as to how the student will travel, then provide transportation based on their desires. I feel that more students should ride buses, but I know that will not suffice for this community. Nevertheless, lets try together to work this thing out so that we wont have the problems we've had this year. gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
ff12 Member 
|
Instead of first come first served,why not a lottery for the parking spaces. |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Woo! That might just cause a riot ff12! I still think it ought to be based on need... If you take a zero period (and bus service is not available) or you have legitimate afterschool activities, you need a parking pass. I don't care what grade you're in.
|
|||||||||||
|
Anna Diemer Member
|
Vicki: I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing these kinds of things. If you'd like to write an editorial, I'm fully behind you. It'd be good to have the problems recognized in the community. ff12: I think that a lottery would work for the rest of the parking spots that are left...first, students should get spots in an order something like this... 1) Seniors 2) Zero Period or Weaver kids 3) Students who have after school activities or a job after school 4) Students who have a special situation (ie: both parents work or something like that) And all the rest of the spots could be a lottery for the juniors that don't have spaces yet. Sorry if I've left out anyone in the order, but you get the idea. |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Anna~~ Why should a senior automatically take precedence over a kid who takes a zero period class or a kid who is involved in after school activities or a kid who has a job? What if you have a senior who does none of the above.... You're saying they should have the spots over a kid who probably deserves it more??? |
|||||||||||
|
Anna Diemer Member
|
Sorry, Cracker, you're talking to someone who's going to be a Senior next year and knows how high schoolers are...^_^ Remember when you were a senior in high school? Did you think that you were better than the underclassmen? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but...if all the seniors weren't offered spots, there would be a HUGE fuss. I don't know if you're being facetious, but I do know that seniors would be offered spots first anyway--it's how Northwest works. Seniors get to leave for lunch early, seniors get to leave school 5 minutes early to get to their cars...seniors should get to park at school. My class (next year's seniors) has about 550 students in it, and I think that we have at least enough parking for that. I'm not saying that a senior who doesn't do any of that deserves it more, but as a senior, they should have the privilege. It's just the way high school is. Anyway, good news! I was called to Officer Pass's office today and had a nice little chat with him. The original reason I was there was because I had parked in the staff parking (in the temporary lot) one of the exam days because there were no more spots left--I got there for the second exam. One of the teachers actually took pictures of my car and license plate, which freaked me out a little bit, but Officer Pass understood my situation. I asked him if there was a possibility that I could get a permanent parking spot. He didn't asnwer my question, but he asked me whether I wanted to be on the parking planning committee for next year. Of course I said yes...^_^ and started explaining the discussions that we'd been having on the forums here. I gave him the link to the site and hopefully, he'll come and take a look at our suggestions. Talking to Officer Pass made me realize that he is really a sweet person with the students' concerns at heart, instead of the "evil parking cop" image that I had of him. He seems fully willing to take suggestions and make the parking system better. Hopefully I'll remember to be polite and not open my big opinionated mouth so much. |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Anna Diemer wrote: I asked him if there was a possibility that I could get a permanent parking spot. He didn't asnwer my question, but he asked me whether I wanted to be on the parking planning committee for next year. Of course I said yes...^_^ and started explaining the discussions that we'd been having on the forums here. I gave him the link to the site and hopefully, he'll come and take a look at our suggestions. Anna! This is AWESOME that you directed Officer Pass here! There has been some excellent exchange of ideas here and I really hope that he and/or the parking committee will take these ideas into consideration. You are right, Officer Pass is a WONDERFUL person. I KNOW that he really cares about each and every student at Northwest. He told me that he WANTS to be at Northwest over ALL the other schools in Guilford County. He's a "keeper" and we need to support him:-) That was a good, candid respond regarding Senior privileges at NW. I agree with all you said. It's been quite a long while since I was a NW high schooler myself  but some things have not changed! It is just a long standing "tradition" to give some privileges to upperclassmen (and that's probably not just at NW). The only thing I would add is that grades be factored into the equation. A failing senior should not have the privilege of parking at school. Last edited on Jan 25th, 2006 04:43 pm by Kris McNeill |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Anna Diemer wrote: Sorry, Cracker, you're talking to someone who's going to be a Senior next year and knows how high schoolers are...^_^ Remember when you were a senior in high school? Did you think that you were better than the underclassmen? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but...if all the seniors weren't offered spots, there would be a HUGE fuss. I don't know if you're being facetious, but I do know that seniors would be offered spots first anyway--it's how Northwest works. Seniors get to leave for lunch early, seniors get to leave school 5 minutes early to get to their cars...seniors should get to park at school. My class (next year's seniors) has about 550 students in it, and I think that we have at least enough parking for that. I'm not saying that a senior who doesn't do any of that deserves it more, but as a senior, they should have the privilege. It's just the way high school is. Sorry Anna... You haven't convinced me. Granted it was a tad bit more than a short time ago since I attended Northwest, however, saying it's "just the way high school is" doesn't make it right. We've discussed the teachers teaching without classrooms and the fact that you are attending school with 2000 and some students. That's also the way your high school "is." Does that make it ok? I understand that you are biased because you are going to be a senior and I am trying to be unbiased because I have an underclassman who won't be driving until she is a senior, however I still think there needs to be some type of formula/criteria in place. I do not think being a senior should automatically give you a parking spot. My guess is that the 2 perks you listed above, leaving school and for lunch early probably have more to do with crowd control than anything else. It's just a bonus for Seniors due to circumstances. And you say that if seniors are gonna raise a Huge fuss if they don't get spots....WAAAAA! What do ya think folks are doing now? Everybody is not gonna be happy no matter what the decision. A zero period kid, no matter what grade, needs a parking spot until bus service is offered for those kids. I do hope OP visits the forum. Thanks for letting him know about it. I would like to say to him that I do not envy his job one little bit! Thanks OP! |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Cracker Jax wrote:
I stand corrected in my complete agreement with Anna on Senior privileges. Cracker Jax is right - zero period students should have first priority. I think it should go like this: Zero Period Students (regardless of grade) with a 2.5 GPA or higher Weaver (or other off campus classes) Students with a 2.5 GPA or higher Seniors with a 2.5 or higher (first priority to after school activities or jobs) Juniors with a 2.5 or higher (first priority to after school activities or jobs) Sophomores with a 2.5 or higher,etc.... |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
And I am just "tickled pink" that this forum has been provided and that it appears that it may just help to facilitate a solution to this problem! Thank you NWO!! |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
Anna, I guess out of all this talk about NW parking situation, we will come to a reasonable conclusion, it needs help. One thing I feel that everyone forgets about is that the parking is big and need management. This may be an area for a volunteer parent(s) who have the time to join in a help manage parking. I heard that there are over 700 parking spaces at NW. Now in my little mind I do believe that administrators and teachers have their hands full with teaching, testing, grading test, meetings, and other requirements set by the School's Superintendent. So I'll say this as I have said it before. We need to put our money where our mouth is and become part of the solution instead of voicing anger and frustration. Believe me, all of us are at this point and it does look like it will get any better soon. gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Kris McNeill wrote: I stand corrected in my complete agreement with Anna on Senior privileges. Cracker Jax is right - zero period students should have first priority. I think it should go like this:
|
|||||||||||
|
Bubba Guest
|
Great suggestions! And with the NW leadership team and administrators they should come up with a great plan. But remember we will be talking about about 1500 students ( 550 seniors, 600 juniors and 700 sophomores). I know they all won't be driving - but it's going to be close and probably a waiting list. And let's not forget the 100-150 new students that move here through the school year. And what's happened with the security cameras they were going to put in, So the campus hot spots - like parking lot could be better monitored? |
|||||||||||
|
Anna Diemer Member
|
All right, Cracker, all right. No offense meant or taken. I know I can't help being biased. However, if you asked the opinion of most of my peers, you would get the same response--seniors should automatically get parking spots. I do agree that grades should be a factor, though, even for seniors. You shouldn't be failing all your classes and still be able to have that privilege. Kris: Your idea looks pretty good, except I hope you're referring to unweighted GPA. It's not that hard to make a 2.5 weighted at Northwest because of all the honors and AP classes. My weighted is around a 5.0...I'm not sure about the GPA thing, though. I don't know how difficult it is to maintain a 2.5 taking regular courses...so I apologize for this paragraph. I highly doubt that any sophomores will be able to park next year, however. MAYBE if they have a zero period and if that, they'll probably have to park in the temporary lot. Oh, Cracker, I forgot...there is some weird zero period bus system, but it picks kids up at around 6:30 or something ridiculous like that. I have a friend in my zero period that rides the zero period bus. But don't hold me to anything I say about the bus--I only know that it exists. gotobeme: I agree with your idea of parent volunteers. If there's going to be more requirements for parking, there will have to be more helpers to regulate it. If you don't mind me climbing up on my soapbox...The only bad thing about requiring a certain GPA is the increased importance of grades. With standardized testing, SAT, PSAT, AP, and all that jazz, students are getting labeled with a number. That is NOT COOL. One little number isn't going to determine whether I'm happy for the rest of my life. I am a human being--I am so much more than grades and test scores. One of the sad things about public education... Er, sorry. ^_^ *steps off her soapbox* |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Anna....I certainly did not mean to offend either....
As a gesture of goodwill, you can borrow my Soapbox anytime... Don't have one who looks a little less angry... sorry...
|
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Anna Diemer wrote: Kris: Your idea looks pretty good, except I hope you're referring to unweighted GPA. It's not that hard to make a 2.5 weighted at Northwest because of all the honors and AP classes. The only bad thing about requiring a certain GPA is the increased importance of grades. Yes, unweighted GPA and 2.5 was just my best guess at a good cutoff. I think this would be something the parking committee could better determine by considering the range of GPAs at Northwest. I see no problem with tying the privilege of parking to GPA. Grades ARE important. Throughout history, performance in school has been measured by grades. Some students need incentives - like maybe the privilege to park at school. |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
gotobeme wrote: This may be an area for a volunteer parent(s) who have the time to join in a help manage parking. I would be willing to help. Are you available gotobeme? I can get in contact with Officer Pass and let him know that we are willing to help. |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Yes... Grades are important. Yes kids might just need that extra incentive. And guess what Anna honey... Out in the real world, you are just a number too.
Kris, I think I'll just let you do my talkin' here from now on..... You are doin' a FINE job of it. |
|||||||||||
|
Bubba Guest
|
What if a student stays after school everyday for tutoring to raise shem's GPA? Just one more thing to think about |
|||||||||||
|
Anna Diemer Member
|
Thanks for the soapbox privilege, Cracker; I'm sure it'll get some good use. ^_^ One of the things that upsets me about life is that we're all just a number and a birth certificate somewhere. Oh well, c'est la vie. I guess it would be a good incentive for grades. Doing it by grades would be a better way than just having a lottery for the rest of the spots. We are going to need LOTS of help, though, if parking is going to be so conditional. Maybe we could contact the PTSA at the school and ask to form a parent parking committee to get more help. So, when a student goes to get their parking spot, they'll have to bring 1) their license 2) their parent (? suggested by someone earlier, I think...) 3) their last report card/transcript 4) their class schedule 5) a list of after school activities, job, sports, etc. Or something like that? Trying to consolidate everyone's ideas... |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
I don't see why the parent would be needed if all the other stuff checks out. Do you? Maybe I missed that post... oops! I was gonna let Kris do my talking.... Did ya'll really believe that? |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Anna Diemer wrote: One of the things that upsets me about life is that we're all just a number and a birth certificate somewhere. Oh well, c'est la vie. Anna, don't LET the numbers define you! You have to have a birth certificate, social security number and driver's license (if you are privileged to have one:-) number. That's just a fact of life. If you are talking about GPA and standardized test scores, just don't let them define you. If you do your best in all you do then whatever the "numbers" come out to be doesn't really matter. N'est pas? oooh, I'm probably gonna get an off topic I've never gotten one before  |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Anna Diemer wrote: So, when a student goes to get their parking spot, they'll have to bring I had previously suggested having a parent come with the student. My original thinking was so the signature on the parking application wasn't forged. But with proper documentation of everything I guess a parent wouldn't be necessary. Maybe the parking committee could draw up a new parking application that includes a place to list after school activities, job, sports,etc ?? |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
Kris McNeill wrote: oooh, I'm probably gonna get an off topic Although your comments are 100% correct, and very good advice............you are correct that you are..........  |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
Crackerjack, I see both your ideas and Anna's and believe that both of you have good suggestions, but reality is this; the senior thing will be forever more. Seniors deserve to be recognized for their accomplishments. This is not to say that other students aren't making the same or better acheivements. However, life in High School has a protocol which allows for Seniors to be recognized and given certain perks because of their position. This is not different from normal everyday job experience. We see it with every aspect of life; jobs, church, government etc... so lets not lose our mind when trying to make a decision about what should happen at NW. Seniors probably will get first choice. I even heard that Seniors will be registered before any other grade level will be registered, so I believe that even after school begins, some students will not be driving before all seniors are registered. Frankly, I think it should be this way. I personally think that only seniors should drive. That's the way it was when I attended school. We knew that it was that way and every excepted it and waited their turn. I have a hard time dealing with what I hear from people who feel like they are due something. No one is due anything except to learn and graduate. Also, those who feel like the school have to provide a space for their child because their child works after school, should really re-examine their thoughts. That's like asking the school to make arrangements for getting them their also. I believe that is the responsibility of the parent who allow them to have a job in the first place. That is not the responsibility of the school to provide a space for afterschool extra-curricular activity. So lets look at this realistically. The school provides and should provide for those students who are being rewarded for getting to the top, ie. seniors. Everyone else who gets a space ought to thank God. Gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
I really wished I could, but my schedule won't allow to meet during the day or early evening. I will contact Officer Pass and see what I could do to assist in any way I can. Maybe even do some work during the summer to help prepare for next year. Gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
The school won't be able to meet all request for parking. I think that is real. We need to narrow the scope and be honest about what we are looking at. Too many drivers and situations to be able to meet every need. Gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
gotobeme wrote: The school won't be able to meet all request for parking. I think that is real. We need to narrow the scope and be honest about what we are looking at. Too many drivers and situations to be able to meet every need.Good point.........they can put up portable classrooms, but nobody has invented portable parking lots yet. |
|||||||||||
|
Waytago Member 
|
Just out of curiosity, does anybody have a feel for how badly overcapacity the parking situation is? I think I read someplace there are 720 parking spaces. How many do we really need? 800? 900? Does anybody really know. If the school is at 140% of student capacity, does this automatically mean parking is 140% over capacity too? (Logical) Alot of good comments above, just having trouble understanding if the problem is 1) overcapacity (which of course is yes), 2) selection criteria or, 3) #1 leading to #2 Sounds like #3. |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Waytago, I think you're right - it's #3. It's a problem that just really came to fruition this year. Younger McNeill #1 graduated last year - about 380 in her class. Younger McNeill #2 will graduate next year - 575 in her class. The sophomore class is even bigger - I don't have numbers though. In my opinion, more selection criteria should have been put into place this year. I just think a lot things happened that were not anticipated. Younger McNeill #2 tells me that there are 698 parking places. I know there is a "waiting list" but I'm not sure how many are on it. My guess-timation is that at least 75% of the 575 "next year seniors" will want a spot so that could account for over half of them. If GPA is used as a criteria, that might lower it. Last edited on Jan 28th, 2006 12:09 am by Kris McNeill |
|||||||||||
|
Bubba Guest
|
I don't think they are going to let a job be part of the mix because it has nothing to do with school. this year they have 709 spots and there isn't anywhere else to make any new spots. I think I heard their are a couple hundred on the waiting list. So they are looking at a possible 1000 kids next year needed spots. I don't think the GPA thing will work because it just adds more busy work for staff or volunteers and that could be time used more wisely. Sorry if I am always being the down one, but I just would like everyone to know it's not going to be a win-win situation and there is going to people that might need one and aren't going to get it. Might be a good idea to make a plan B for if you don't get one and prepare now. |
|||||||||||
|
commonsensesum Member
|
I was mentioned in an earlier post that GCS limited parking passes to $5.00 max. Why can't they give the schools more freedom to do what they need to do to make things work? Our parking situation is simply one of supply and demand - 709 spaces available and 1,000 plus needed. We need to raise the price to the point we only get 709 people who want to pay price x and the problem is eliminated. At $100 per pass that is $70,900 available to put in a fund for additional parking spaces. At $500 per pass, that is $354,500. This money can be used to add more spaces until the supply issue is resolved. That sounds like a lot of money, but over 9 months, it is only about $55/mo. At $100, it is about $11 per month - not a lot of money. Of course, I'm sure Dr Grief and staff would never go for it, especially at Northwest. |
|||||||||||
|
Vicki White-Lawrence Member
|
I think we've been talking about having parking allotted more on a need base than on a "who can afford to pay it" base... Some of the kids who need it most may have a hard time coming up with $100, much less $500. I think we sometimes forget that, while this is an area of great wealth, there are also families who struggle ... I don't think we need to highlight yet another area to identify the "haves" and "have nots." |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Bubba wrote: I don't think the GPA thing will work because it just adds more busy work for staff or volunteers and that could be time used more wisely. Bubba, what other criteria could be used instead of GPA? As I see it, some set of criteria has to be agreed upon and put into place. The alternative would be "first-come, first-served" which is what we had this year and it did NOT work well. The perfect plan that pleases everyone is never going to happen BUT I certainly hope that the parking committee will make its best effort to TRY for the perfect plan and maybe get as close to perfect as possible |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Vicki White-Lawrence wrote: I think we've been talking about having parking allotted more on a need base than on a "who can afford to pay it" base... Some of the kids who need it most may have a hard time coming up with $100, much less $500. I think we sometimes forget that, while this is an area of great wealth, there are also families who struggle ... I don't think we need to highlight yet another area to identify the "haves" and "have nots."
|
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
I gotta agree with Vicki and Kris on this one. Guess I've identified myself as a "have not" but I can hardly afford to keep my kids in blue jeans! |
|||||||||||
|
StewartM Member 
|
I agreed ....$5 is enough....put me on that have not list....... |
|||||||||||
|
Bubba Guest
|
Kris McNeill wrote: The alternative would be "first-come, first-served" which is what we had this year and it did NOT work well. The perfect plan that pleases everyone is never going to happen BUT I certainly hope that the parking committee will make its best effort to TRY for the perfect plan and maybe get as close to perfect as possible "first-come, first-served" is how it's been done for years! It didn't work last year because there is more need then spaces-I don't think there is a solution to this problem, but to carpool. No matter what committe you have. There is always going to be somebody that needs or thinks they are due a spot. SORRY - spots available 709! |
|||||||||||
|
Bubba Guest
|
Last edited on Feb 2nd, 2006 01:54 am by |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Well, maybe the folks in this area will learn a little about sharing.... Carpooling would help with the traffic, decrease pollution AND save people some money. If they're not driving so much, won't have to put so much gas in those cars! ♥♥♥ |
|||||||||||
|
commonsensesum Member
|
I hear you about the cost. My $500 example was an extreme to show how much money could be raised. However, I don't think $11 a month ($100/yr) is extreme. If you can afford a car to drive to school, I think you can scrape up another $2.50/week. |
|||||||||||
|
Kris McNeill Member
|
Bubba wrote: I don't think there is a solution to this problem, but to carpool. I completely agree that carpooling would help the situation. Carpooling is a great thing - my husband works in Winston Salem and carpools in with 3 co-workers. How many folks here carpool to work? Carpooling aside, those 709 parking spots have to be distributed in some fair manner. My preference is that it be done by some set criteria. |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
I think that the suggestions Anna and Crackerjack submitted are plausible, however, I do not believe that Sophmores will have a chance to get parking spaces unless they fall into the listed categories. The GPA thing may work, but not for all grades. There will be approx 550 juniors graduating to 12 th grade and approx that many 10th graders going to 11th grade. Once the total of both grade levels submit for passes, there will be no spaces left for 10th graders. Again, we fall into this dilemna.....no space to accommodate all. (No room in the Inn) The next question is this; who will manage all of the this???? Someone will need to be available everyday to workout parking situations. Thus another problem. Managment of the parking lot is a must if all is to work well. I can tell you this, the staff, from what I have seen can not handle it alone. Gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
I simply do not believe that because a student has a job, they should get priority for parking. I do except the notion that if a student has Co-OP classes they should have as much of a chance as a senior, Weaver, zero period and Juniors.... The job after school is a matter of planning and should be done from the home and within family restraints. It is my belief that the school has little to do with that. When my son or daughter wanted to work after school, we sat down and looked at the possibilities of doing so within our family structure. If it was not possible, we made changes to our schedule or they could not work that particular job. We did not rely on the school to make arrangements, and that's what it seems to me that many are asking. There are just some things that are only family matters. Gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
I dont' have anything to contribute to this discussion, so maybe should off topic myself in advance...................but lost Monty?? Anyhow.......just wanted to first thank all contributors to this topic for all the various viewpoints being expressed. This topic has been a picture perfect example of how many different viewpoints there can be regarding one topic. Also, how one topic affects people in so many different ways on a relatively personal level. There probably is no one ideal solution, any solution is a compromise. Gotobeme said it very well - There are just some things that are only family matters. Don't stop posting, keep the discussion going, I just wanted to comment on the great success of this topic. |
|||||||||||
|
DToney Member 
|
I've seen a lot of talk on this forum about the cost and lack of spaces... even one about off campus areas charging a fee for parking... that is already happening. The lovely lady next door (I heard) is charging $50/year to let some kids park in her yard. Just one more indication of how the overcrowding affects our students.... but at least some have learned there are more options than sometimes meets the eye. |
|||||||||||
|
Jacob Boyd Member
|
I have the BEST solution to the problem, right here. Give the Seniors the parking places first, then the Juniors, and either do the following for the Sophomores Take the OLDEST Sophomores Do a Lottery |
|||||||||||
|
DToney Member
|
I agree with Jacob... that's the way they did it at our old school... with Seniors getting the best spots. They actually had certain spots earmarked for seniors in a preferred location & you had to have a Senior sticker or you could not be parked in that area. Upperclassmen should get some "perks"! Last edited on Mar 30th, 2006 01:41 am by DToney |
|||||||||||
|
Waytago Member
|
I'd have to say Jacob has a good idea also. When constrained beyond capacity, you have to set priorities somehow, you'll never get everyone to agree, so a lottery is probably random enough to be fair. |
|||||||||||
|
Jacob Boyd Member
|
Here is another problem with students parking off campus (in the vacant lot beside the school). Because their vehicle is not parked on the school, that means that the parked cars are not subject to searches without a warrant. |
|||||||||||
|
bama80 Member
|
I dont understand the problem with that since the car is not on school property. You want kids to park on school property just so their car can be searched? If someone wants to bring something to school with the intent of doing harm, I dont think they are going to stop at the school property border and say "oh i better park out here with my AK instead of driving right up to the door with it. Anyway,.. I dunno. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Yes, but I think that may well be why some people choose to park off campus.... To avoid the risk. And if they have something in their car they want to offer to someone else, they are taking less of a risk if they are not on school property... |
|||||||||||
|
bama80 Member
|
good point. I am not sure what my point is. There are too many sides to it. ill think about it for a while and might add a bit more. |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
The problem with assumptions are these; we sometimes believe what we have heard instead of what we actually know. Students who park off campus should know that regardless of whether they park off campus or on campus they are subject to the law. I am sure OP could get the permission from the owner to be on his property. The owner has told me that he does not allow all of the students parking to be on his property and will not allow it next year. Most of the students parking on his property did so without permission which places them in a trespassing kind of state. Now who is subject to search? I guess it would be the students who are on his property without permission. Does he have reason to request a tow truck to remove students and can those cars towed be inventoried by law enforcement and the towing company. My guess is yes. Protection comes with permission and no assumptions. Has anyone as an officer about such things? Gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
gotobeme Member
|
Hey Yall, Today I heard that parking for the remainder of the year will be open to all who drive since the Seniors are gone. And the rumor about the parking situation for next school year will be that the Seniors will register first and foremost, then the remainder of spaces will be given to zero period Juniors. Spaces left after that will be put in a lottery and given to the names chosen. Again, there are only a little more than 700 spaces on campus for students. This tells me one or two things. Everyone will not get a space and or the criteria for keeping a space will be tightened. I dont see things getting better since the population of students is still growing. Come on Northern High!!!!!! Gotobeme |
|||||||||||
|
DToney Member
|
gotobeme wrote: I dont see things getting better since the population of students is still growing. Come on Northern High!!!!!! It won't get any better until we have proper infrastructure to support the numbers... I am afraid that even with Northern taking the 500 students from us, there will still be issues at NW. |
|||||||||||
|
Vicki White-Lawrence Member
|
DToney, You seem very concerned about Northwest High but also mention that you work full-time so think you cannot volunteer. I hope you will reconsider that. While some PTSA volunteers (and volunteers in other areas -- band, sports, etc) do not work outside the home, more and more people have AT LEAST one job in order to maintain the lifestyle they want. Some still find ways to be involved, whether that is working on a committee, or volunteering to help with one particular project, etc. I would encourage you to get involved at whatever level you can, because it will help you to better see for yourself how things are done while you learn more about the school itself. It will also benefit your child, and of course, it will benefit the school and our community. Many times people don't realize they have a lot to offer when in reality they do.... It may just require a little creative thinking and scheduling in order to make it happen. I hope you will give it a try! |
|||||||||||
<~~~~~For Kris
I knew I liked you for a reason Kris!!! 