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Steve Adkins Member 
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What do you think about the Town Council Meetings? The last elections placed two members of the Concerned Citizens on the council. What has been the impact of this membership change? How is the Town Council performing with the change in cross section? How do you feel about recent Town Council decisions / votes? |
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Cracker Jax Member 
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I see what you've been up to Steve! |
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Skiddles Member 
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WOOO, STEVE GOOD JOB |
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Skiddles Member
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THEY ARE BEING RUDE...PERIOD! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Let loose folks !!!!!!!!!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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RUDE. I Concur. Now, that can't be classified as name calling can it Skiddles??? |
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Skiddles Member
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NO JUST THE FACTS CRACKAH |
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Lacka Member 
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Crackah, I think I read somewhere that you would not be allowed to relieve yourself at the park, it seems that it will be too expensive to maintain the toilets long term. If you guys don't want to listen to the rehashing of the council meetings while riding around I have a few copies of the "History of Door Hinges" if anyone needs one. Sound System, HUM. Don't think I will vote on that tonight, I think I want to mull that one over. |
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Skiddles Member
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IT IS SKITTY'S AND MY OPINION THAT THEY COULD CONDUCT THEMSELVES IN A MORE MATURE AND LIKABLE WAY. THE OLD SAYING...AND WE HAVE ALL HEARD IT.. YOU CAN CATCH MORE BEES WITH HONEY THAN WITH VINEGAR... WELL THEIR VINEGAR IS CAUSING THE BEES TO DROWN. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Did you not recieve info on that in your packet Lacka??? Is that not why you GET a packet?? So that you can MULL it over before hand and be prepared to vote on it?? |
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Skiddles Member
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HISTORY OF DOOR HIDGES... YOU MAKE ME LAUGH LACKA!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FUNNY HONEY! uh...I mean Skiddles!! |
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Lacka Member
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It was not in my packet, OK to be honest I didn't read it, yet. I didn't know we were voting on it tonight. Skiddles, I do have the history book in my car, I don't have extra copies, but you can borrow mine anytime. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Would y'all check your PM's pls. |
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Skiddles Member
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THANKS LACKA.. I MIGHT DO THAT IF I CAN'T GET A COPY OF THE MEETINGS FIRST. I WAS THINKING ABOUT TAKING SOMETHING INTERESTING ON MY TRIP TO TAHITI. ME, MY HEADPHONES AND A COPY OF THE TOWN MEETINGS ON TAPE, SOUNDS PRETTY INVITING DOESN'T IT? MAYBE WE CAN SEND JANE COPIES WHILE SHE IS SAVING PEOPLE. |
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macca Member 
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Question: Are the packets mailed out to Council members ahead of time, or do they just get them when they arrive at the meeting? I know at one time I read that the CC's were not putting in appearances anywhere... I would think there would be some place they could pick up mail, etc ahead of time; just wondering if they do. |
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Skiddles Member
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MACCA THE COUNCIL DOES GET A MEETING PACKET IN ADVANCE OF THE TOWN MEETING. HOW LONG IN ADVANCE, I'M NOT SURE. DOES SOMEONE KNOW THIS ANSWER? |
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macca Member
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OK, Lacka. I want a copy of The History of Door Hinges -- on tape -- and I don't want to have to pay for it. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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One comment I haven't read anywhere, unless I missed it, was the comment BS made about "I don't like change orders". Change Orders mean more money. It appears we've got project planners doing everything possible to ensure the park comes in on time & on schedule. They are saving every nickel, and need to issue change orders for the saved money, the overall project budget remains unchanged. Not sure who the guy in the blue shirt was that spoke, but he deserved a medal. People asking for needed flexibility to do their jobs, and BS snarls at them like they're trying to embezzle the funds. |
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Lacka Member
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Steve, Crackah thinks (via pm) that the speaker that you are speaking of is George Holub. Mr. Holub was also the individual who got the Summerfield signs for free that BS and DC disagreed with, and yes he does deserve a medal. Last edited on Jan 5th, 2006 02:20 am by Lacka |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Someone mentioned (Honestly don't remember who) at the SF TC meeting that Strickland and Crawford would be attending a class to "teach" them the Essentials of Municipal Government in Rocky Mount in January. I would think that we (Summerfield Taxpayers) are footing the bill for this 3 to 4 day trip. I was interested in exactly what would be taught at this class so I took a stroll over to the League of Municipalities Website to check it out. Please feel free to have a looksee. If I am not mistaken, THE SAME class is offered in FEBRUARY, less than a month later, in GREENSBORO that they could attend daily and save us the travel expenses. Am I correct? Is it only ok to "waste" our money if it is spent on them? Reminds me of Bruce Davis and the County Comissioners taking that "business trip" to Hawaii that we footed the bill for! |
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FatPappy Member 
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Well, Dang, Crackah! That don't sound right. Those duly elected stalwart stewards of our communal resources, spending it unnecessarily! How can that be? Uh, I mean, thank-you Cracker. You deserve our humble thanks for bringing this egregious matter to light. Last edited on Jan 5th, 2006 03:01 pm by FatPappy |
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Lacka Member
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Hey did anybody else click that link that Crackah sent? It looks like they still have time to sign up for the GSO deal, and actually save the town money. |
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macca Member
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I agree, Crackah. I'm sure new Council members could benefit from such a class, but it does seem that they could wait a few weeks and save some $$$. (Hey, at least they didn't suggest that they attend the one in Asheville!) |
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bama80 Member 
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Yeah really. Rocky Mount WOOHOO! Still. They should just wait a few weeks and attend the one here. It would save money and they could support the Greensboro area at the same time. |
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bama80 Member
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Or wait. Isn't Greensboro the enemy? I can't keep track of all this. |
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Bubba Guest
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Why are they going at all. They don't need any more education to nasay everything. They want nothing! But please correct me if I 'm wrong and their is anything they support other than no new taxes (that one is always used). I'm one who always tries to find the good so any help would be greatly appreciated. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I sent an email to DC to ask him who is footing the bill for the travel, let's see what he comes back with |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Rocky Mount.... Hawaii... what's the difference Bama if we are paying for it?? Bubba... 'fraid you might be outta luck on this one... Been looking for "the good" and can't seem to turn any up. Steve Thanks for contacting CC (Councilman Crawford) for us! Can't wait to hear! |
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Lacka Member
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Steve, When you contacted DC, did you copy the other council members? You might be more likely to get a response if all council members are contacted when trying to ask one of them a question. |
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FatPappy Member
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I don't understand; they want to leave town and y'all are quibblin' about money? Pappy says pass the hat! Let's see how far we can send 'em! But seriously, I'm interested to see how, or if, anyone responds. Why can't they wait if it will save money? |
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Lacka Member
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LOL Passin the hat Pappy. You just kill me. Maybe Steve will email some others incase we don't hear back from DC. OF Course DC, I mean CC could join us on the forum and just tell us himself, why this little trip was planned this way. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Ok... passing Pappy's cavalier hat...taking up donations to pay for the trip.... Wonderful idea Pappy! Of course, being public officials, they'll be needing a chauffeur.... Ms. Dunham? Great idea Lacka! I agree with Lacka on this one Steve... contacting all council members might be more effective. (Don't really know Councilman Crawford's track record for answering emails, so it isn't for that reason) I think that it wouldn't hurt for all council members to know we are questioning the expense!
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Cracker Jax Member
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Noticed on the Summerfield Website that there is another Town Council meeting tonight at 6:30. I think they are meeting with the zoning board maybe... I was unaware of it. Hope someone I know attends so we can get an update! |
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FatPappy Member
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Does anybody know what those bills they're voting on are? |
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DOGGETTJA Member 
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I'm still working on my computer problem - this is a TEST. |
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FatPappy Member
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Comin' in loud and clear, Jane. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Don't know nuttin' bout them bills Pappy! Sorry! Jane, let me help you with that computer problem... I am good at it... Here....  |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Lacka wrote: Steve, Lacka, to answer your question, no I just directed the email to DC, will give him the benefit of the doubt.........for 24 hours. If he doesn't answer back, then I'll broaden the email distribution, won't even mind cutting/pasting on this forum for all to see (did it with Terry Grief's emails on NWHS) Good suggestion..........Thanks |
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Steve Adkins Member
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From: Adkins, Steve Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:39 PM To: 'jcrawford@triad.rr.com' Subject: Essentials of Municipal Government Dwayne During the town council meeting Tues night, I heard you & Becky say you were going to training soon in Rocky Mount. Others have told me this training is Essentials of Municipal Government. Is this correct? If so, who is paying the expenses for this trip? Is this being paid for by Summerfield, or are you absorbing the expenses yourselves, or other? There is another class Feb 14 – 16 in GSO that would avoid travel expenses.
Steve Adkins |
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Skiddles Member
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Well done Steve. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Good job Steve. We were not of course insinuating that he would not answer you. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Town Attorney Bill Trevarrow RESIGNS! See the full sickening story on the CC forum! |
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bama80 Member
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I wonder what donw would say about all this. I kinda liked him. I know he thinks he wanted to be elected but I think this is enough to make anyone resign. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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DonW is probably sitting there thanking his lucky stars that he is not sitting beside her instead of Crawford. I liked DonW too. I might just have to campaign for him next time, (depending on the candidates of course.) I know! Steve, why don't you pm him and see if he has time to come back! I know he was at the TC meeting on Tuesday night and I'd be real interested to hear his thoughts. |
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macca Member
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I've seen his name listed as being on the forum this week... Guess he was just observing but didn't feel compelled to post... Maybe that'll change. |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member 
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Have been reading the postings and just had to comment. I don't know Mr. Bruce, the (now former) town planner, but I do know Bill Trevorrow. He is such a nice, genteel man. I'm sorry he was subjected to what sounds like a public humiliation. I know he has been an invaluable resource to all three towns in our area as they were incorporating and growing. I guess I don't understand the need to be ugly about taking care of business. I think people can handle things without personalizing it.... |
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bama80 Member
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or publicizing it |
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Skiddles Member
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Steve have you heard from DC regarding their trip yet? |
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StewartM Member 
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We have lost 2 good employees of the town. Who will interview and hire their replacements??? Who is next to go........ |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Skiddles wrote: Steve have you heard from DC regarding their trip yet? Yes I have..........give me a few minutes to summarize his comments & my reply |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I received a reply back at 2:00 am, too long to post, so I'll summarize: DC basically stated he & BS were trying to weigh the benefits of getting trained before the Feb TC meeting, so they wouldn't go thru another meeting without proper training. Yes, the taxpayers are footing the bill. He asked for my opinion on their logic. I replied the logic was horribly flawed. They have spent the past year attacking the TC, they could do things so much better, now they're in office expecting the taxpayers to train them, told him I for one am not interested in footing the bill for a 3 day vacation for them. Suggested to him if he & BS are going to "walk the talk", then cancel Rocky Mount, go to GSO class, and let the CC's foot the bill, do something positive for a change. Asked him to reply back to me with their decision. Personally, I think we need to light up the TC's emails with objection to using taxpayer money to training our newest TC members. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Not sure this is a good place to put this but if not Patti just move it but I am concerned about the prospect of the Fire department building a burn tower and buring cars in the Town Core district of Summerfield. Guilford county is already out of compliance with air quality facing sanctions and to increase the air polution in the densest populated area of Summerfield does not strike me as being good. We had residents complain when the Town burned the building on Old Summerfield Rd and although they may not do it every week this proposed activity by the Fire Department it will certainly impact the school and neighbors. I hope you will let you council members and the Fire Department know how you feel about this. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
I sent him a PM........we'll see |
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bama80 Member
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He was here briefly.. probably just long enough to check the PM, post in one topic, and left. If he ever intends on running again, he may not want to tip his hand too much on here. |
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Lacka Member
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Well Steve thanks for the edited version of the email that DC, uh I mean CC sent. I thought they already knew everything, whats the rush? I vote save the money and go to the Greensboro meetings. I will be writing Mayor Brown and others to voice my views on this matter. |
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Skiddles Member
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Ditto Lacka |
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Cracker Jax Member
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You know what? I wouldn't mind so much footing the bill for the actual class if they chose the one in Greensboro, as long as the entire council agrees that it would be a class that would benefit the average TC member. It's the unnecessary travel expenses I object to. C.C could probably benefit from the experience, but I don't expect B.S to come away from the class with any new knowledge. She is already thinks she knows it all..... Seeing that there is only one TC meeting in between the two classes, I'd say their logic has been OUTWEIGHED. Thanks for emailing him Steve!!! Last edited on Jan 6th, 2006 07:34 pm by Cracker Jax |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I heard BS has close family in Rocky Mount. Hmmmmm!! |
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Skiddles Member
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Hey Steve glad you are feeling better. Thanks for the update with DC. Crackah keep making those lists! Skitty and I have totally worn ourselves out running today and I still have a few more trips to go.... ugh! Bubba my knuckles have now gone from red to white |
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Skiddles Member
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Crackah - I'm with you, I don't like all the scrolling |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Nuh uh Jane! Are you kidding??? adding that to list.... Skiddles.... do ya reckon we could get her impeached?? Last edited on Jan 6th, 2006 09:32 pm by Cracker Jax |
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Skiddles Member
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Don't know... maybe we should take a survey in front of the Food Dog |
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macca Member
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Probably a good idea to make sure there is the "sweet" fragrance in the air the day you do the survey.... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Maybe we could all dress up in scuba outfits for the next TC meeting which by the way appears to be on 1/12/06 (special called) and carry signs saying "Hawaii" Naw that is probably too subtle. |
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macca Member
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Jane, Jane, Jane! I'll bet there are folks who'd say we've been a bad influence on you! Little do they know how reciprocal it's all been! I like your idea, but you're right, way too subtle ... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Oh no Macca you are just seeing the true me. That nice reserved council person is an absolute lie. I always wished I could say to people the things I was thinking but I would have been lynched. |
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Skiddles Member
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You can let it loose in the playground |
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macca Member
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We'll protect you now, TC Emeritus Jane! |
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Skiddles Member
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You are safe with us Jane!! |
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Lacka Member
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Macca maybe Sadie could come by and set up a booth or something beside our table and people wouldn't notice the smell, or maybe our campaign could be. What is stinkin' up Town Council?
Then the smell would be appropriate. |
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Lacka Member
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Maybe I will be the new Jane when I grow up. Last edited on Jan 7th, 2006 02:54 am by Lacka |
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Lacka Member
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Jane is 1/12/06 not the night of the Parks meeting? Do you think there is a reason there is an emergency meeting that night? Do they think that the Parks meeting is so unimportant that they can schedule on the same day? Am I wrong? Maybe I have my dates confused. Does anyone know why there is an emergency meeting. Please tell me that we have not hurt anyone's feelings again, I just don't think I can take anymore of that. |
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donw Member
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After attending the last meeting I really understand why the resignations are taking place. Once you think the elections are over Ms. Dunham steps up to the microphone and starts rambling on about old council meetings. Blaming and making accusations as usual. I truly believe that Dunham and her current puppets on the board (Strickland and Crawford) have created an atmosphere where personal attacks are a way of politics in Summerfield. Before they (Dunham, Strickland and Crawford) go after others (non-politicians) they are getting out before there name is smeared. This is my observation and believe our town is going to be labled, which will make it very difficult to get good experienced personnel to work for the Town of Summerfield. When you vote for people who don't have good public communication skills and act as if they are the ones who are always right you are asking for trouble. Unfortunately the Summerfield Town Council is going to get confused with the Guilford County Commissioners. DONW Last edited on Jan 7th, 2006 12:12 am by donw |
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Lacka Member
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WOW a new DONW, well said. It is a shame that this is a reflection on the entire town and the TC. It is a circus, and I am embarrassed to be associated with the nonsense. It makes me sick to think that people will look at our little town and this is what they will see. To be so unprofessional and rude makes us look like we are uneducated and well, just down right common. OUR ENTIRE TOWN APPEARS TO BE COMMON, how sad. Don thanks for coming back and joing in. It is nice to have you back. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Thanks Don, we appreciate you coming back to join us |
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Lacka Member
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Hey Stacka, didn't know you were not feeling well, until I caught up. Glad you are feeling better!!!! Last edited on Jan 7th, 2006 12:38 am by Lacka |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Well I don't know what I did to my last answer. The 1/12/06 meeting so I understand it to discuss the current resignations and what to do. I don't know for a fact that the parks meeting has been cancelled but I would hope we don't have to choose which meeting we are going to. |
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macca Member
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What is stinkin' up Town Council? That was pretty much what I was suggesting for the survey! |
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FatPappy Member
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Don, I agree with what you said (scary, isn't it), but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this part: "Before they (Dunham, Strickland and Crawford) go after others (non-politicians) they are getting out before there name is smeared." Jane, maybe your computer cable has a kink in it like a garden hose and your answers are building up in a big bubble. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Yeah FAtPappy and the hose will explode and I will surpass Crackah in responses. Naw she is way ahead but it is a goal. |
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FatPappy Member
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Keep your scuba gear handy! I hope the rest of us ain't downstream when the tsunami lets loose. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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I am confused by what seems like a double standard. How can people who campaigned based on little/no spending now spend money when it suits them? While I didn't agree with them, I guess I sort of respected their opinion because they were consistent -- give nothing, take nothing. I think donw ran on a similar platform (at least the limited spending part) but was much less obnoxious about it. What is up with spending money on a new sound system? Maybe it is justified (although the one the town has was pretty expensive and is only a couple of years old I think), but can they just pick and choose what THEY want to spend money on? And what about the training in Rocky Mount? Even if one member has family there, will they both stay with her family? Who will pay for meals? What about mileage? Again, another instance of what THEY want to spend money on. Frankly, I'm disappointed ... and insulted. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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donw wrote: After attending the last meeting I really understand why the resignations are taking place. Once you think the elections are over Ms. Dunham steps up to the microphone and starts rambling on about old council meetings. Blaming and making accusations as usual. I agree Don. I think however that they've already "gone after" the employees and the committee volunteers. Or at least they are questioning, requesting extra information and work and hounding them so much it has become too much for these employees and volunteers to take. But like you said, who would want their ethics questioned publicly or be accused of buying playground equipment for personal gain? Well said. and thanks for coming back. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I like to call the "New Jane" CITIZEN JANE She's a pistol and I'd be honored if she surpassed my postings. Zippy...I was disappointed when the election was lost because 2/3 of the voters did not step up to the plate. All we can do now is try to keep them educated... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Hey donw remember the good old days when were just debating policy on the forum? Welcome back. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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donw - I didn't mean earlier that you or your campaign were obnoxious. I just meant you seemed to have some of the same objections as the CC on the council's spending. Crackah - You are right. If you can't vote, don't gripe. But be an informed voter and make certain you know who and what you are voting for! Unfortunately, I think most of those who did vote were only concerned with their pocketbooks. Most people don't come to town council meetings and never will. Probably the bottom line for them was "I don't want to pay any more taxes." And the CC played right into their hands. |
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Lacka Member
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Pap, can you get us some little smiley faces that are doing the cabbage patch? Might have to ask the younguns what that is, but htey will know. Zip needs the cabbage patch smileys after that post. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy will ponder that cabbage patch one. Cain't find no dang young'uns when you need 'em. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Hey everybody, I started a topic some time ago, but nobody responded. I was asking how people thought the town's property on Summerfield Road should be used. I just got my first response. Why don't you go over there and give some input? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Hey let everybody know the Parks meeting on 1/12 is still on. Lets go show those Sparcies (Summerfield Park Assoc is all I know) that we not only want the Summerfield Park up and going but we want more recreation areas for our town. |
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FatPappy Member
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Thanks for the info, Jane. Love the new avatar. I liked the old one too. Made me think of spring and diggin' in the dirt. |
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FatPappy Member
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Since Dwayne and Becky claim to be in touch with the people, how about they actually get in touch with some of us people outside their little group and actually find out what we want? Why don't they join the forum or by some other means explain to the people their reasoning behind some of their recent decisions: Bill Trevarrow's needlessly humiliating public excoriation, NO on saving money on the park equipment the people wanted, YES on spending money on a new sound system the people didn't want, YES to going out of their way to spend more money than they needed for their training? Instead of tearing everything apart, why don't they help build something? Instead of always being negative, why don't they offer something positive? Instead of working against, why don't they work with? All I've ever heard from either of them is summed up in that lop-sided load of manure they mailed out before the election which was absolutely insulting to anybody with a brain. We deserve better leadership from them! We deserve better explanations from them! I'm beginning to think Dwayne and Becky don't care what anybody else thinks. |
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FatPappy Member
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YES park! YES town hall! YES Summerfield! Last edited on Jan 8th, 2006 01:43 pm by FatPappy |
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Skiddles Member
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I agree with you Pappy, I would like to know how their decision were made and what hard facts they have to back them up. I believe we deserve an answer as we are citizens of Summerfield and they are our Council. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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All members of the council are representatives of the people. Since Summerfield doesn't have districts or zones, certain council members don't just represent certain citizens. They all have a responsibility to listen to their constituents and do their best to represent them. I'd encourage residents to contact all their council members (including those who may not necessarily share their views) and make sure those representatives know how you feel. Email addresses are listed below and I think phone numbers are in the phone book or are available from town hall unless someone on this site has them and would like to share. Mark Brown, Mayor edard48@bellsouth.net Dena Barnes, Mayor Pro Tem denabarnes@triad.rr.com Carolyn Collins, Council Member nursecty@aol.com Dwayne Crawford, Council Member jcrawford@triad.rr.com Becky Strickland, Council Member stricklandbecky@hotmail.com Bob Williams, Council Member hosswms@aol.com |
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zippitydoodah Member
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I just ran across a very applicable quote by a former representative: "You have to listen to as many citizens who are willing to take a stand on a issue. We will never hear from everyone or even a majority. Live by your vote and die by your vote. Just do the what is best for the town." - StewartM, on the Substation forum page Thanks Mike. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Zippy and others: Got this contact info off of the Concerned Citizens website which has not been updated since October 2005 but I am assuming no phone numbers would have changed.... Dwayne Crawford 643-1245 Becky Strickland 643-4067 Mark Brown 643-4843 Dena Barnes 643-5972 Bob Williams 643-4848 Carolyn Collins 643-7417 Call them or email them ya'll!! |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Good job, Cracker. Mana for you! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Thanks zippy! And did I mention how much I like your name?? Wish I'd thought of it first! Oops! OFF topic! Contact your council members folks! |
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FatPappy Member
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Thanks everybody for the good info. Park, yes! Town Hall, yes! Zoo, no! TWO many talkin' animals already. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Park Yes! Town Hall Yes! TWO Funny! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I talked to DC yesterday. He has decided to attend the Rocky Mount class, but will defray the travel, lodging, & food expenses himself. Therefore the Rocky Mount Class will not cost the taxpayers anymore than if he attended the GSO class. I have not talked to BS, DC did not want to comment for BS, so I do not know what her plans are. Last edited on Jan 9th, 2006 12:39 pm by Steve Adkins |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Thanks Crackah. And I like yours as well. You are one of my favorite snacks. Now back to the subject at hand... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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BRAVO DWAYNE!
I know that sounds quite unusual coming from me, but I think it's a good thing he's done. Shows he's listening to the people. I like to think that he would have done this on his own, without the public outcry, but I don't know. Time will tell. Let's wait and see what B.S. does about her "Hawaii" trip. That ought to be interesting. |
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bama80 Member
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As an outside observer, she sounds too strong willed to give in to this type (internet forum, non-CC types) of pressure. I think the only people she would give in to would be her CC buddies and not just the general population. |
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Hairbrush Member
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Sorry, I haven’t posted since my initial post. I know it might seem strange, but I have no internet at the house. I was reading through the responses and it reminded me of point that BS or DC said in the last town council meeting. They were upset because the new survey that the town had sent out had only been sent to registered voters and should have been sent to property owners instead. So a couple of thoughts occurred to me: One, as far as BS or DC is concerned, as long as you are a renter you can have no input into how the town spends their money, seems a little elitist to me. Also you could own land in Summerfield but not live or vote in Summerfield, but could still decide how the town spent its money. Seems to me registered voters is a good way to get input on what is important to people. They should be the ones that are voting for the town council and deciding on the referendums so why should they not decide on what the town should spend its money on. I just hope more people filled out their surveys than turned out to vote. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Beautiful Hairbrush. Just Beautiful. Well said. |
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FatPappy Member
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Well said, Hairbrush! I hope you get internet at your house soon. It's hard enough to keep up with all the doin's o' all the critters roamin' around here. There's two or three that really need watchin'. |
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Lacka Member
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Hairbrush, wow just wow! |
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bama80 Member
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yeah what I said. wow just wow. haha |
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FatPappy Member
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Has everybody called or emailed the town council with your input on the park, town hall, water, and anything else you can think of? |
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Bubba Guest
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Page 12 bottom right "Business from Council" in the Jan 13-19 issue of the NWO not only got my attention, it almost gave me a heart attack. I'm very concerned about the role that Mr. Crawford is proposing for himself as internet/ email czar of the town of Summerfield. "Crawford said while he could do it for free, he would need to be in control because of the equipment needed." HELLO PEOPLE!!!!!! If this isn't a perfect setup for abuse of power and conflict of interest then every henhouse owner in Summerfield should hire a fox to watch it. FREE at what cost to your personal information-a firm has guidelines without a personal ax to grind.  When is the new technology committe meeting? When, Where and Time I hope they will be open to the public and their input. |
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FatPappy Member
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Good one, Bubba! You're right, the Town Council needs to nip that idea in the bud! Way too many chances for him to abuse the situation and control information. Not that he would, of course. But if he could... |
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FatPappy Member
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Park, Yes! Town Hall, Yes! Internet/Email Czar, NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Whoa Bubba! Thanks for pointing that one out.... Loved your fox watching the henhouse analogy! Thanks for the offer DC, but no thanks. |
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SMU98 Member
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It is unfortunate that the level of vitriol and accusations previously witnessed at Summerfield Town Council meetings has become formalized by a certain recent addition to that Council. I don't live in Summerfield, but I have followed the drama of the last 18 months regularly. It is regrettable that Bill Trevorrow has resigned, ostensibly because he is smart enough and too old to want to deal with a constant barrage of smears and accusations that would probably persist at least until the next election. Trevorrow is not only the attorney for Summerfield, but also for Oak Ridge and Stokesdale. These three towns are all similar in size and character. They all face the same issues, and Trevorrow knows these well. Summerfield has lost valuable guidance due to the unproven smears by a certain member of that Town Council. Despite his many years of experience in municipal law, this council member apparently believes he can't do anything right. I'm sure she is relying on her own years of law school and practicing municipal law to support her position on Mr. Trevorrow's abilities and understanding of the law. Still, the State Bar of North Carolina has no record of her being a licensed attorney, and I know that it is against the law to impersonate an attorney or practice law without a license... For the record, I am an attorney. I don't just play one on t.v., nor am I someone who apparently believes that previous experience working in a non-attorney support position for the US Attorney makes one a legal authority. In fact, even the vast majority of licensed lawyers AND judges in North Carolina are not board certified specialists in any area of the law. All of this seems to be lost on Trevorrow's chief critic who obviously believes she has a special talent for pointing out what the law is and is an expert on what it should be. I find it laughable that this person believes that the Summerfield Open Floor Speech policy should be scrapped, rewritten, and that the attorney who drafts this "new" policy should not be paid. Perhaps she hasn't gotten the word yet that involuntary servitude was banned by the fourteenth amendment. Or perhaps she believes that Trevorrow should work pro-bono for the town on a regular basis. Forget that in addition to the cost of his education, he sacrificed seven years of earning an income in order to get the education necessary to practice law. Forget that he has a family to provide for and that he has to pay for office space, staff, annual bar dues, mandatory continuing legal education every year, malpractice insurance, and clients that stiff him on paying their bills. There are plenty of codes in North Carolina that would greatly benefit from a complete overhaul, but the Summerfield speech policy is not one of them. It can easily be corrected as Bill Trevorrow pointed out without much fanfare or upheavel. Our state legislature does this every session. Laws are constantly being tweaked to correct practical realities. The huge Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2005 is a fine example. Congress knows that unanticipated problems will arise with it, and that is why it is still subject to modification. But a modification is not a complete rewrite. The desire of this new member of the Summerfield Town Council to ignore Trevorrow's suggestions and instead start from scratch leads one to the inexorable conclusion that this person wants to draft this policy herself. Further, if she believes that Trevorrow has falsified a HUD, let her complain to the State Bar and try to prove her case. Trevorrow simply doesn't need the aggravation. Of course, this isn't the only policy change that this person seems to believe that she alone is competent to address. Perhaps the only move that will placate her is to dissolve the town council and make Summerfield a benevolant dictatorship with her in charge. Obviously, she believes that everyone else is incompetent or corrupt. Although we are witnessing this on a micro-scale, it is certainly reminiscent of other megalomaniacal despots in history. The pattern is identifiable: Use your right to free speech to gain a following, then rewrite the speech code when you gain power to prevent others from exercising their free speech to criticize you. In fairness, this person has not made any statements that she would make the policy tighter. In fact, she has stated that she believes the current policy is too restrictive. However, some of those people that she is very closely aligned with have suggested that Summerfield can now return to civility and end the name calling now that elections are over. How convenient. Apparently, name calling is out but personal smears and damaging the professional reputation of others is in. Although it may be too early to tell, things don't look very bright. I have always had a fondness for rebels with a cause, and I support those who question government. However, as things are progressing it appears that her agenda is not about improving government but instead it is about imposing her recalcitrant agenda on everyone else by accusing good people of bad things when she does not get her way. We reap what we sow. Perhaps it won't be too suprising if there is a stunning fall from grace in the future. My advice to the fair minded people of Summerfield is that you do get the government you deserve. Do not allow well-minded people to be driven from public service and allow the desires of a few control your destiny. Some of the past criticisms made by her newly crowned highness are valid and warrant further discussion, but that doesn't mean they all are. Nobody on the Summerfield Town Council is right about everything. But before long, she may become that which she claims to despise- a person in power for the sole benefit of herself and her friends. Good luck. I'll be watching. Last edited on Jan 14th, 2006 03:17 am by SMU98 |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Encore! Encore! SMU98, WHERE have you been all my.... uh I mean for the past 18 months!!! HELP US PLEASE! SAVE US FROM THIS PLAGUE THAT HAS INVADED OUR TOWN Don't just watch....POST! Oh, and a HEARTFELT
WELCOME TO THE FORUMS SMU98!!! |
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FatPappy Member
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Thank you, SMU98! Music to Pappy's ears! Hitler and the Beer Hall Putsch, for example! Who would have thought that comical little buffoon would have amounted to anything. The only thing I question is that "benevolent" dictator part. You were being too kind. Thanks for lending a hand. You're welcome back anytime! |
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FatPappy Member
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Park, Yes! Town Hall, Yes! Internet/Email Czar, NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! |
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Starcatchr Member 
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Welcome SMU98! I only hope that those CCs who are lurking in the shadows see your message. You said it well. Yippee!!! |
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Bubba Guest
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SMU98 well said If a outsider can see what's going on-citizens of Summerfield open your eyes! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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SMU98... I Sent you a PM (private message - upper right corner). Please check it. Sorry ya'll... I KNOW that's rude and I have rules against such behavior, but I swear I am not talking about you behind your backs... I just didn't know if SMU knew what PMs were, being a newbie here and all...I swear I was just giving SMU some background he/she needs... You'll thank me one day.... |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: ... You'll thank me one day.... Thank You Crackah !!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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If you are just arriving to this forum, please go back to page 6 and read the letter from SMU98. I know a lot of you don't like to "catch up" but this time it's worth it! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Another concern I have, uhhh ohh does that make me a concerned citizen? Horrors!!! Anyway if I understood the special called meeting discussion the other night 2 of the attorneys that the town is interviewing out of three have connections to BS. She went to school with one and worked for the other. While those two facts in and of them self are not necessarily a problem it does cause me pause for concern. Did anybody else pick up on those facts? |
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Bubba Guest
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You understood right Jane. Humm......... the law and maybe all technology of the town in just a month in office. I guess a conflict of intetrst doesn't apply to them. |
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bama80 Member
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the letter.. oh. how witty. how concise. how powerful. -> " For the record, I am an attorney. I don't just play one on t.v" hahah the 14th amendment, involuntary servitude = slavery hahaha. awesome. keep it up smu98 |
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FatPappy Member
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No, they don't have a double standard, they just have one and they apply it fairly: they're always right and everybody else is always wrong. But let's be fair and not jump to conclusions. Maybe he has a legitimate reason to want to control the town council's email. You need to have proof of wrongdoing, like he always does, before you make any wild accusations. Now if he had a Sheriff for a husband, let's say, then that would automatically prove he was guilty of collusion. But I don't think he has a husband. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I received the statement below in an e-mail from Becky Strickland, who said I could post it in its entirety. I will also post it on the Concerned Citizens thread. "I have a job I was elected by the citizens to do on November 8 and have had no formal training for it. It is now January 12 and I have already sat at 2 regular council meetings and at least 2 special meetings. The first Tuesday of each month I am asked to vote on crucial Town matters including re-zonings and land use involving many legal Ordinances. In order to serve the citizens properly, it is critical that not another meeting go by before I am formally trained as a Council member. An ethical issue arose this week, which I will make public at next meeting, which I did not know how to handle because I have not had the benefit of training. If training had been held at all anywhere in the State in December, I would have gone then. It is a necessity--not a luxury. This month the 3-day training is in Wrightsville Beach and Rocky Mount, respectively. I chose Rocky Mount for taxpayer reasons. The costs for lodging at Wrightsville Beach are astronomical compared to Rocky Mount. I do have family near Rocky Mount and will be combining this trip with a family visit. Therefore, I will not be asking the taxpayers for mileage reimbursement, which would be significant. Nor will I ask for meal reimbursement as I would have to eat anyway regardless of where I am. I do not think 3-nights lodging and seminar registration fees are an unreasonable Town expense under the circumstances. The Town Administrator or Clerk can give the nay-sayers the exact dollar figures. Taxes do and will continue to factor into all my decisions while a Summerfield Town Council member, as they did in this one. I simply must be formally trained to do my job as soon as possible, and Rocky Mount is the quickest and most frugal site." |
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FatPappy Member
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It took 10 days to come up with that? She could have just gotten on the forum herself a week ago and said it. You know, actually talk to the peasants, I mean people. Maybe they'll teach her some humanity in Rocky Mount. If she changes her mind and wants to go to Wrightsville Beach, I hope she knows how to get there, because I'm not very good with directions. The best I can come up with is: Keep going east till your hat floats. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Pappy, you are baaaadddd...... I've heard there are other things that float, and I don't mean sugar. |
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FatPappy Member
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Zippy, you devil. I know what you mean. I gotta get outta here for a while before I get in trouble. |
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Bubba Guest
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Ok. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the training thing even though you seemed to claim to know it all before you took office. But, PLEASE!!! The humble act--I don't think so, honey! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I hope BS and DC get what they are expecting out of this training class. Having attended 2 of them I found them to be wonderfully educational in concepts and ideals but not a lot of real hands on how to's. The networking was very beneficial and it was very interesting to see how other towns are doing things but..... I didn't bring home anything that helped in the day to day running of Town Council and the town. Just an overview of things. |
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FatPappy Member
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Good one, Bubba! Thanks for the insight, Jane. She also has three experienced council colleagues to seek advice from in the meantime. Not to mention recovering council members like yourself. |
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SMU98 Member
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"I have a job I was elected by the citizens to do on November 8 and have had no formal training for it." But I obviously am so well schooled in matters of law sufficient to point out all the legal deficiencies in Bill Trevorrow's work, even though I have no training for that either. But I DID work for a lawyer before... "In order to serve the citizens properly, it is critical that not another meeting go by before I am formally trained as a Council member." Just as I twisted the statement of the Piedmont Local Governments Council that "good legal advice" was the number four goal of Summerfield to mean that Bill Trevorrow was not competent, so too can you twist this statement to mean that I have not properly served the citizens for the last two months. "An ethical issue arose this week, which I will make public at next meeting, which I did not know how to handle because I have not had the benefit of training." Yeah, I know it was me who actually raised the ethical issue that I didn't know how to handle. Maybe I should have waited until I knew how to handle it before I raised it. Maybe I should have had some evidence to support me before I raised it instead of raising it and then saying I'll make it public at the next meeting. Maybe I am having all my concerns reviewed by my own attorney who can do the second guessing. Maybe I'll get my attorney a new job as the new attorney for Summerfield... Maybe if you ask 10 different lawyers to review the work of another lawyer, you'll get 10 different opinions. "It is a necessity--not a luxury." It's obviously a necessity in my case, because I clearly don't understand the meaning of the word "decorum". It probably won't matter anyway, because I've made it clear I'm going to do and say whatever I want. Hopefully, I'll pick up some new tips that I can use to destroy my enemies. "I do have family near Rocky Mount and will be combining this trip with a family visit." I could save the taxpayers money and stay with them, but I didn't run on a platform of saving taxpayers money, did I? "I do not think 3-nights lodging and seminar registration fees are an unreasonable Town expense under the circumstances." Only town funds used to pay for something anyone else wants is unreasonable. Yeah, I know I was adamant about wasting town funds, but hey, this money is being spent on ME! It's getting more amusing by the day. From a short distance I can view these events as entertainment. For you in Summerfield, I hate it for you. The hits just keep on coming. Last edited on Jan 14th, 2006 10:18 pm by SMU98 |
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FatPappy Member
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SMU98! EXACTLY! I'm speechless. I hate to break it to you this way, Mammy, but I think I'm in love! Last edited on Jan 14th, 2006 10:36 pm by FatPappy |
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Bubba Guest
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SMU98- Mana for you!!!! I'm so glad you joined this forum. Wish you would move here. And as far as all the hits we are taking- it has been longer than 2 months- try 18. I'm hoping the fog is lifting and the citizens can see the truth. Granted it would have been better if they had got it before Nov. 8 |
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Hairbrush Member
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I am disappointed in BS answer on the so called training she is attending. It seems that responsible spending is a matter of opinion. I thought spending for the park and for the town hall was responsible spending but I see that BS doesn’t agree with that, but to spend money on a seminar out of town when one will be held locally is responsible spending. I am sure the county commissioners thought going to Hawaii for a workshop was good use of tax payers’ money also. It is just a workshop and I don’t see why waiting 3 weeks would be a hardship. Of course if they teach an etiquette course then I could see pushing up the training. Maybe they will also discuss how to properly evaluate an employee/subcontractor about their job performance without one day getting sued. I don’t think they go into those courses though. Oh and should I kiss her feet because she is saving me so much money by attending the training in Rocky Mount instead of Wrightsville? Does that make things more right? |
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zippitydoodah Member
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SMU - On the statement "But I DID work for a lawyer before..." (as if that makes somebody a legal authority). Now I understand how to become an expert. I ain't as learned as some of y'all. But one time I worked fer a dairy farmer, so now I guess I am an expert on bull crap (can I say that on here?) |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Can somebody give me a bull avatar about now? Last edited on Jan 14th, 2006 11:45 pm by zippitydoodah |
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ff12 Member 
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I rememerber now .Not strange to me if you don't have internet, we just bought our first computer not long ago, less than a year.this message for hairbrush. Last edited on Jan 15th, 2006 12:17 am by ff12 |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Thank you again SMU98... keep 'em coming! Now, if we could just figure out how to drag SMU98 to a TC meeting.....Would love to see her get a dose of this in public.... Zippity.... Don't see why you couldn't say that.... BS has been spoutin' nothin' but bull crap for 18 months.... Will keep my eyes peeled for a bull for ya.... great idea! Sandra, thanks for acting as a "go between" between our elected official and her public. That can't be an easy job. We appreciate it. |
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macca Member
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SUM98!!! Thank you so much for your insight! I'm not a Summerfieldian either, but I think we need to support them as much as possible.... You make some good points, and I can see that our neighbors appreciate it.... (I gave you mana too...♥♥♥) |
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bama80 Member
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Im not on the town council.. but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. |
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Skiddles Member
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SMU98.. thank you for your insight from afar. I believe your words were very revelling!! Our situation here or as you said it, "the hits that just keep on coming," seem to be apparent to the proverbial outsiders looking in...wow!! SMU98 your vision is better than 20-20. Thanks, we can really use your observations here. Keep them coming neighbor! |
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macca Member
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haha bama...good one....welcome back |
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Steve Adkins Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Another concern I have, uhhh ohh does that make me a concerned citizen? Horrors!!! Anyway if I understood the special called meeting discussion the other night 2 of the attorneys that the town is interviewing out of three have connections to BS. She went to school with one and worked for the other. While those two facts in and of them self are not necessarily a problem it does cause me pause for concern. Did anybody else pick up on those facts? Yes, Jane, I heard the same thing. Matter of fact, I heard BS use the words "May I lobby?" before presenting her candidates. Not sure if everybody realizes it, but these BS-rent-a-torneys are costing $65.00/hour more than Mr Trevarrow was being paid. I noticed Carol Collins picked up on that quickly. This is supposed to be an "advantage" over paying Mr Trevarrow his $275/hr. Now it will be interesting to see long Summerfield winds up paying this premium on the rent-a-torneys, and how much MORE the replacement attorneys cost us. |
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FatPappy Member
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They make Pappy's skin crawl with their supremely aloof posturing and their self-righteous standards that they don't bother to try and meet, as if they could. And always that pervasive subtle threat of secret knowledge and THE LAW. To them, like all bullies, "respect "is synonymous with "fear." They ain't gonna get neither one from Pappy! Pappy's dog's got more common decency and better manners, not to mention better hair. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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And I bet Pappy's dog wears his glasses all the way up on his nose too |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy's dog's got a real good sense o' smell and since he generally keeps his eyes shut most of the time, he tells me he don't hardly need no glasses. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I'm sure he knows guano from shinola |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: I'm sure he knows guano from shinola
You know what they say about payback Steve-O! And Nudists ARE Naturalists! Gotta say I enjoyed the dog wearing the glasses up the nose comment though!
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Steve Adkins Member
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Touchee !!! Last edited on Jan 16th, 2006 12:31 am by Steve Adkins |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy thinks as a minimum qualification to be a town council member, we should require a passing grade on an entrance exam into the human race. Not even an "A", just a passing grade. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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For You Pappy!
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Next issue that the Town is facing is what to do about the planning department, Continue with our own department or go back to Guilford County. The county has recently cut their fees which makes them more attractive price wise but we still have the same issues that we had before. And if you want any examples of what happens when the great big County and little bitty Summerfield have a conflict then just drive by Stone Bridge on 150 where there are several examples of Summerfield not doing their own planning. The county issued a grading permit wider then allowed in Summerfield which is why there is the wide denuded area that serves as a road out. The planner at the time was forced by the County to recommend approval of the project even though it did not meet the Long Range plan. She subsequently quit. Please let your council members know that Summerfield wants to be a real Town and have employees in important areas paid by the citizens of Summerfield. |
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Lacka Member
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Jane, I really thought you would be at the attorney interview meetings tonight. Can you think of anything more boring?????? I was going to go, but I had something for dinner that may not have been the best choice, and I didn't think I could stomach..... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Lacka I just could not force myself to go. I will trust those I voted for to make the right decision. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Lacka I just could not force myself to go. I will trust those I voted for to make the right decision. |
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StewartM Member
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I agree with Jane we must keep our planning dept, we had too much problems with guilford county. It will still be cheaper to do it in house. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I too think we should keep our own planning department. I just wonder if anyone will be brave enough to come work for us. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Good Point Hairbrush. Bill Bruce's last day is tomorrow I think. WE WILL MISS YOU BILL! THANKS FOR DOING A WONDERFUL JOB! |
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StewartM Member
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BILL YOU CAN STILL CHANGE YOUR MIND. Thanks for what you have done for the town. You will be missed. Good luck at Guilford County... |
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StewartM Member
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Cracker can you do your computer thing and give Bill a going away party.... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Absolutely Mike!!! Great Idea!!! We usually do this over on MAAN, but this time I'll make an exception! Even though I am not the official party planner, I'll do my best since Kris is not here.....
GOODBYE BILL BRUCE!!!
We appreciate you and all of your hard work!
We are sad to see you go and we'll all miss you!
Sorry you had to put up with all of the rudeness
Thanks for doing a wonderful job for Summerfield!
Maybe your new employers will even provide you a spot to eat lunch!
Good luck on your new job Bill!
Woo Hoo!!
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Cracker Jax Member
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I'll even do the after party clean up
since the cleaning crew (also Kris) isn't in....
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StewartM Member
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Well done Cracker...you might take over the offical party duties....sorry Kris |
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FatPappy Member
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We'll miss you, Bill! You done good, Crackah. Pappy would rather be throwin' that party for somebody else, though. |
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StewartM Member
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AMEN PAPPY |
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Cracker Jax Member
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We'll definitely be throwin' a party on that special occasion fellas! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I'll also miss Bill. I always found him extremely willing to help educate me on matters of planning and zoning in Summerfield. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Do you feel the actions of some in the town are beginning to give Summerfield a "bad reputation"? Although no one can say this is what caused town planner Bill Bruce or some volunteers to leave, I think it's safe to say it definitely played a part in attorney Bill Trevorrow's decision. Do you think others will consider this type of information before coming to work or volunteering for the town, and what do you think the council should do to combat this? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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S. Smith wrote: Do you feel the actions of some in the town are beginning to give Summerfield a "bad reputation"? Although no one can say this is what caused town planner Bill Bruce or some volunteers to leave, I think it's safe to say it definitely played a part in attorney Bill Trevorrow's decision. I am quoting this so I can remember the points I want to make. Old age is not all its cracked up to be..... I don't think there is any questions that the constant harrassment that has gone on for the last two years affected everybody in this town and certainly made others outside the town wonder. We had a dream as a council to make Summerfield pretty, unique, healthy and safe. When Bill Bruce was hired, one of his charges from the Town Council, was to pursue the Town Core and try to make it unique with sidewalks, small shops and keep the look of a small town. The council visited different areas to see what they had done to achieve this. Then along came the concerned citizens and so many of the plans that we were learning about have gone to the wayside as the negative nabobs scream and shout. The problem is that not having a plan will not stop Summerfield from changing it will just mean we have no plan. If you don't believe that think back 10 years ago to what we were. The fact that Bill Bruce left after only 6 months would certainly indicate that there were issues with his job. He was exactly what we were looking for and I believe the Town needed , young, energetic, enthusiastic, well educated. He along with Michael got our planning department up and going in about 4 months. But the months of constant harrassment and questioning took its toll and now he is at Guilford County. As to volunteers are we surprised that good people are leaving. We have had our ethics questioned, been accused of being incompetent, on the take, liars. My surprise is that we still have volunteers. Having said all this I think it is time to stop these tactics and get on with the business of growing this town. Surely to goodness the concerned citizens have copies of every single piece of paper generated in this town over the past 10 years. They to my knowledge have found absolutely no wrong doing so lets give it up and move on to making Summerfield the place that most everybody said they moved to. |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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As an outsider looking on, it has been confusing as to how a minority has been able to create such chaos. Do you think people are more willing now to speak up and challenge them? It just seems that they have been afforded too much power... Now that these two have been elected to Council, don't they represent ALL of the town, and not just their faction? In order to speak for or represent the town, don't they have to be given that authority by Council? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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That's what got me through election week Vicki... Thinking maybe now their hands are "tied" and they won't be able to be as anti-Summerfield since they are supposedly representing all of us. Not to mention that they would be forced to stop talking and listen, perhaps even learn something and see first hand why certain decisions are made. Guess I'm a dreamer.... The Trevarrow incident proves it. She was not speaking for the people or for the council.
Oh! I LOVE the avatar Vicki...Haven't noticed it before!
Last edited on Jan 29th, 2006 04:10 pm by Cracker Jax |
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FatPappy Member
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Well said, Jane. This is, unfortunately, one of Pappy's "favorite" topics. Of course their actions affect everything and everybody, like a miasma of excrement from an open sewer. It makes Pappy's blood boil to think what they've done here. They put their own narrow self interests above the town's and have the absolute unmitigated gall to claim they are the voice of the people and they alone can be trusted, they alone know the answer! NEVER! They don't mind making sacrifices as long as it's somebody else's hard work or reputation they scarifice. Like other vermin, they operate best in darkness, so the more light that's shed on their actions the better. When someone from another town (SMU98) is so disgusted with their actoins that he or she is moved to write against them, that says a lot! I'll have more to say after I cool off a bit. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I know Pappy, I read Sandra's posting this morning and thought "oh my and this is Sunday too"! I had to cool off before I posted. Unfortunately they got elected, 8 more people vote for them which gives them a voice and a position for the next 4 years. I guess my goal is to try and see the vision that Summerfield was working on doesn't get lost in the "miasma of excrement". That next year we get forward thinking people on the Town Council who have a vision for Summerfield and that that vision is not to tear down everything that has been accomplished in the past 10 years. that we regain our civility and politeness that has so been lost over the past 2 years. |
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SMU98 Member
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I noticed in the last NWO that BS added some comments to her original remark regarding her training in Rocky Mount. She referred to her critics on this subject (meaning those who question why Ms. No Spending Unless its on Me- or Ms. NOSUM for short, isn't getting trained here or staying with her family in Rocky Mount) as "naysayers". Interesting that for the past two years she has been nothing but a naysayer herself. Isn't it ironic, don't ya think? Last edited on Jan 30th, 2006 12:46 am by SMU98 |
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StewartM Member
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Jane I agree with everything you wrote, it is time to get the town back on track...Summerfield is getting a bad reputation...I have heard county officials from Guilford and Rockingham laughing at us...call us the new Guilford county commissioner show |
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StewartM Member
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SMU98 wrote: I noticed in the last NWO that BS added some comments to her original remark regarding her training in Rocky Mount. She referred to her critics on this subject (meaning those who question why Ms. No Spending Unless its on Me- or Ms. NOSUM for short, isn't getting trained here or staying with her family in Rocky Mount) as "naysayers". Interesting that for the past two years she has been nothing but a naysayer herself. Isn't it ironic, don't ya think? Will we every grow up and stop calling names.....Council represents the people, ACT LIKE IT Don't just call us names..... |
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thepanther Member
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Mike, At least in Summerfield you have your enemies out in the open where you can see them. Up in Stokesdale there is a lot of smoke and mirrors and trap doors to fall through. I may ask Mayor Brown for political asylum. I would not lower the council's Ratings to that of the county commission, I think Stokesdale has that distinction with its patch work council 2 appointed three elected and 1 of those a hand puppet. Hang in there you're strong enough to get past It. On the prowl in The great Town of Summerfield... Thepanther |
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StewartM Member
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Panther come over and prowl anytime....we don't have any trap doors just brick walls...... |
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Hairbrush Member
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I was shocked at BS calling us who questioned why she was spending money as "naysayers". I find it hard to believe that if the council last year had decided to attend an out of town training when there was a local training being held 3 weeks later she would have sat quietly by. Instead I imagine she would have harassed them in the council meetings and emailed them about how irresponsible they were being. I guess everything looks different when you are sitting on the other side of the fence. |
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StewartM Member
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She is not showing us a good example of saving taxpayers money ....wait and see what a new attorney cost us.... Last edited on Jan 31st, 2006 03:16 pm by StewartM |
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StewartM Member
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Well there is another town employee leaving...Our town clerk put in her retirement notice... We will miss you Dianne good luck. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I heard yesterday that Dianne was leaving. Dianne is such a wonderful person and she will be missed terribly. She is indeed the hub of our town. I don't know how they will keep it together without her. You will never hear her say that she has decided to retire at this time for any reason other than family, but one has to wonder.... |
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StewartM Member
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She is real class act...... |
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Skiddles Member
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Oh my... Dianne is leaving??!!?? She is so sweet and really cares about her work. You are right CJ she is the hub of our town and a great employee. One does have to wonder! We will miss you terribly Dianne! |
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macca Member
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I know I'm an outsider ("Summernot" as Pappy would say♥♥♥) but it really seems that SOMEONE needs to talk about these issues of people leaving head-on. I mean, it doesn't look like a healthy environment. Maybe if someone could address it without pointing fingers but to say, "Hey, we need to make things better." SURELY these people can see what problems there are... that they AREN'T making things better... I mean, it sounds as though the attorney search isn't going well, and employees are scattering.... |
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Lacka Member
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We will have to hire an outsider for Diane's job. Who would want the job now. Many hours of yet another hiring process. Wonder if any of the CC would like to recommend someone that they are affiliated with? Maybe mom knows someone who would be interested. I know we will not ever hear Diane say anything other than she is leaving for family reasons, but that is just bull, and we all know it. I have never heard Diane say anything negative, ever. I was afraid this would happen. Who knows more in this town than Diane? Such a shame. Diane we will miss you more than you could ever know. We appreciate every thing that you have done, and don't blame you one bit. Hey now that you will have some free time come and join us on MAAN. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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TC meeting tonight ya'll.... Maybe Mom'll even be there! Wonder what her speech tonight will be..... hmmmm. Surely she's run out of stuff to complain about. I guess she's gonna have to resort to complaining about what folks are wearing.... |
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StewartM Member
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MOM needs some Cracker Jax....and a walk in the park.....Wait she doesn't want to pay for a park.....well let her walk on the side of road then....Its windy outside, like a good neighbor I will let her borrow my cap..... Last edited on Feb 7th, 2006 07:28 pm by StewartM |
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Skiddles Member
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My hats off to you two! Last edited on Feb 7th, 2006 08:54 pm by Skiddles |
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Lacka Member
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I can't even compete with the three of you. Hee hee, just hee hee. Mom better be careful walking on the side of the road, if the sun was just right, and somebody didn't have their cap at just the right angle, there could be a glare, it could be dangerous, one of ya'll needs to tell her, I wouldn't want her to get hit. I think it might be more safe to walk IN the park rather than on the side of the road, even if you don't like the park. Saftey first. |
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Starcatchr Member
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Dianne, your expertise, smiling face and wonderful attitude will be MISSED!! Please, please stay in view and don't give up on our town. See you at Town Council meeting...s |
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Starcatchr Member
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I set my cap to go to Council meeting tonight but had a conflict that I couldn't work around. Was a new attorney to be chosen tonight? If so, who? Last edited on Feb 8th, 2006 01:32 am by Starcatchr |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I was asked to post my comments to the Summerfield Town Council on 2/7/06 here for those who were unable to attend. To the TC's credit, the attorney firm selected for negotiation met all three criteria below. Good Evening, Mayor Brown, Town Council, and members of the audience. My name is Steve Adkins. I come to you tonight to express concern at recent events which are giving Summerfield a negative reputation. Specifically I am speaking of 1) the public tongue lashing of Mr. Bill Trevarrow 2) the attorney recruitment process 3) the Rocky Mount training trip in January 4) the park project First I’ll speak of Mr. Trevarrow’s situation: The manner in which Mr. Trevarrow was spoken to at the January Town Council meeting was rude, unprofessional, and reeked of a vendetta. If there were truly performance issues at hand, they should have been handled in a more diplomatic fashion, not with a public tongue lashing. The manner in which this situation was handled reflected poorly on this Council & Town of Summerfield. At a minimum, Mr Trevarrow deserves a public apology from this Council. Secondly the attorney recruitment process Now Summerfield is confronted with finding a new attorney: My personal opinion is: · The method of recruitment should be thru public notice, not thru private invitation. Interested attorneys should be solicited thru the media. · The attorney eventually selected should not have any links or relationships with any Town Council members, any such links would be a conflict of interest · Summerfield should pay the same hourly rate for a new attorney as what Mr. Trevarrow was being paid. Any greater amount would be a waste of taxpayer money. Third, the Rocky Mount training trip The training offered in Rocky Mount on Jan 18 – 20 is being offered in Greensboro on Feb 14 – 16. 28 days would not have made that much of a difference. The decision to spend taxpayer money for travel in January seems to have been made solely by the two Town Council members who attended the training. As a taxpayer I would have been completely satisfied with waiting another month to avoid travel expense. In my opinion, any travel expenses associated with this event should be absorbed by the two respective Town Council members out of their own pockets, not the taxpayers. Last, but certainly not least, the Park Project I am in favor of this park, want to see it completed, and based on the information I have seen, am convinced the majority of Summerfield citizens support it. The Volunteer Parks Committee & Project Manager are doing everything in their power to manage costs, plan for any unforeseen cost, and ensure project completion on budget. The recent request to empower Town Administration to execute Change Orders was certainly a valid method to enable completion on budget. The rude manner in which the Volunteer Project Manager was addressed in last months meeting was offensive & unacceptable behavior. None of us are born with X-Ray vision, a project of this scope & magnitude will certainly hold some unforeseen surprises. The Project Manager should not be dressed down for being honest with the taxpayers. My expectation is Volunteer Personnel be treated with utmost respect, all Town Council members solidly support this project, and the Town Council will approve a budget item this coming year to move into the next phase. The shallow assertion that “change orders mean more money”, indicates poor understanding of the big picture. I find it appalling any Town Council member would create roadblocks to the Park. To the newest two Town Council members, I say, the decision was made before you were elected to office, the ship has left the port, now lead, follow, or get out of the way, but don’t impede the progress of this park. To quote a popular author & TV personality: One of the depressing realities of our society is that a few people with loud voices seem to have an influence over our lives. They accomplish this with intimidation. If you have the audacity to disagree with them publicly or tell them something they don’t want to hear, there is no reasoned discussion. They give you a label, like “naysayer”, and you are supposed to tuck your tail between your legs & fade away. Being a bully is one of the oldest - and most effective scams around. Bullies abuse people, until they realize the bully is full of baloney, then they fight back. As citizens, we have the right to demand responsible behavior from each other, and from our government. If individuals among us behave irresponsibly, the rest of us should not be penalized, the behavior itself should be addressed. When it comes to victims, the people screaming the loudest are usually the culprits. The real victims, the majority of decent people, suffer in silence. Summerfield’s decent people are not willing to be silent when they see the Towns reputation being tarnished. My expectation is the above behaviors & issues will be addressed by this council in the near future, so that Summerfield’s good reputation be restored. Thank You Steve Adkins |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Starcatchr... They directed Michael Brandt to enter into negotiations with the law firm who was going to charge the same as Bill T. did. Steve asked how the firm came to be interviewed... Did they come to SF or did someone from SF approach them... Council answered that the firm approached SF, which I take to mean that the firm has no ties to council members. Dwayne pointed out that with this firm we are getting "Three attorneys for the same price we were paying for one attorney" which I guess means he's thinking three heads are better than one.... I have to question whether or not we will get the same personal attention that we are accustomed to with three attorneys handling town business. |
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macca Member
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WAY TO GO, STEVE!!! YOU MAKE US ALL PROUD TO KNOW YE!!! I HOPE EVERYONE THERE WAS DULY IMPRESSED!!!! ♥♥♥ |
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Cracker Jax Member
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They were impressed Macca... Lots of applause! Wish you could have heard Steve read it. He's a public speaker for sure!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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What I want to know is... Who told Mom where the TC meeting was being held??? Ok.. I am referencing a park meeting that she attended a couple of meetings back that she THOUGHT was a TC meeting or something...and upon finding out that it was a park meeting, she left in a huff. If she had actually stayed for that park meeting, could she not have obtained the answers to the questions that she wants instead of wasting TC meeting time asking for answers?? |
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Starcatchr Member
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CJ, thanks for the update on Town Council. Steve, thank you for setting us straight and for doing it in no uncertain terms! Last edited on Feb 8th, 2006 10:28 am by Starcatchr |
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StewartM Member
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Steve again great work.....!!! |
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StewartM Member
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I was at the interview for the new attorney. He did read about in the newspaper and then contacted the Town. Both him and council said they had no ties. They did offer that for one year they would charge $125. After the 1st year they will talk about the rates. Of all the interviews, this is the group (if their ref. check out) that I would have picked. |
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FatPappy Member
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You done good, Steve! Thanks for the updates, ever'body. Last edited on Feb 8th, 2006 12:44 pm by FatPappy |
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donw Member
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Steve, I am sorry I was not able to attend and listen to what you told the council. I was at my daughters basketball game and had to work the concession stand. You did a very good job in expressing the thoughts of many. Kudos! Don |
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Hairbrush Member
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The speech was very wonderful. Thanks for throwing the naysayers comment in there. They still gets me all upset that BS would say something like that. |
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Skiddles Member
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Steve, You are a stand up kind'a guy! You were clear and to the point... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Steve- Excellent job!!. Now folks lets get more "decent" people involved and keep this park moving and lets move on the ball fields. As I said about the Town Core plan last night " A Town with out a plan may not like the out comes it has." Talk about the Park at church, at the schools and in the businesses. Lets get everybody involved. We are powerful as a groupe. Lets don't lose the vision of having the best Town that we can possibly have. Ok Cracker where is the soap box? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Jane or Mike or anybody...... the town core plan... I am trying to understand it and why folks are so upset about it. I did not get a copy of the report handed out last night. My understanding is as follows.... 1. Whoever owns the property is going to do whatever they want on it right now as long as they comply with zoning and whatever normal regulations exist..... So theoretically someone could come in and put in a mish mosh of housing/businesses in that area. 2. The town simply wants to add some continuity to how things are developed and built. Along the lines of a Historic district where certain standards will have to be followed in order to develop the area.... Is that the gist of it?? Am I missing something?? Why in the world would that lady who spoke last night think that a parking garage would ever be needed?? I envision Mayberry when I think town core..... I never saw Andy park in a parking garage...... |
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Hairbrush Member
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That is the way I understood the town core. I feel like she was upset that the Yost & Little business had been allowed, but if I understand it correctly there is nothing at this time that prevents someone from rezoning to commercial. I would think the town core would help preserve the residential areas and control the commercial areas. Sounds like a win win situation to me. I know that someday that area will get water and sewer and I would hate to see a lot of McMansions built on tiny lots. |
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WB Member
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Hello, newbie here. Matter of fact this is my very first posting. I attended last night's Summerfield TC meeting as well, at least through the Committee reports. I got the seat directly behind Mr. Atkins. After Mr. Atkins' comments last night, there was considerable applause. It seemed curious to me that one of the people applauding was Ms. Strickland; even though many of comments made by Mr. Atkins were critical of her. Mr. Crawford was silent, but Ms. Strickland applauded. Seemed odd to me. Also odd were the comments made by Ms. Dunham. She seemed jovial and quite reasonable in her comments (although I have to say that I loved how George Holub responded to her comment on the Park). I attended last month's Parks meeting where Ms. Dunham appeared for a very short time and she seemed almost scary, like she had big chip on her shoulder and was ready to rumble. Last night was quite different. I wonder if anyone else had the same impressions. |
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FatPappy Member
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Interestin' comments, WB. Maybe she was decent 'cause we had comp'ny in the house. Or maybe all that trainin' took. Hee hee. No clue about Mom. You know how those stage moms are. Crawford, I dunno. Slow reaction time? Good cop, bad cop? Can you share the Holub remark? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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WELCOME TO THE FORUMS WB!!! Glad to have another pair of eyes and ears watching what's going on at those meetings.... I did see BS applaud. I have no idea why. Perhaps she wasn't listening. She has never had trouble not applauding in the past so who knows.... In answer to Pappy's question, and correct me if I have the wrong comment WB, but George was giving a park report and was speaking to council about the progress so far in the clean up of the dump sites that have been discovered. He stated something like we found two sites that have been cleaned up... and before he could finish, Dunham jumped up and tried to interrupt him. (She had visited the park yesterday and evidently thought she had uncovered a dump site that was unknown to George... was gonna surprise him with that info I guess) George in turn interrupted her and forcefully said "We are not finished, ma'am!" and went on to tell about another small site they were aware of that is on the list to be cleaned up. It was great.... GO GEORGE!!! |
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StewartM Member
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BS applaud because she got to be the center of attention. She just loves to be the news. She doesn't want to let you know that it got to her. I think Steve caught DC off guard, his Mom didn't teach him what to do if someone spoke back. George as always did a great job. Mom was wrong about the town core, they have had at least 2 advertised public meetings. She is way off trying to defend her kids. People living in the area of the Town Core needs to attend the meetings and help guide what they want. Jane is right, you need a plan. Don't just sit back and see what happens. There needs to be guildlines..... Last edited on Feb 9th, 2006 02:44 am by StewartM |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: Jane or Mike or anybody...... the town core plan... I am trying to understand it and why folks are so upset about it. Is that the gist of it?? Am I missing something?? CJ, you're bringing out some valuable points here, maybe without realizing it. The SUBJECT of town core has been tossed around for so long, the DEFINITION of town core has been lost. Folks are confused, I am confused. I stuck my foot in my mouth at the meeting, my wife asked me what the Town Core was, I told here I assumed it was to develop a "downtown" for Summerfield. Not 5 minutes later, the lady (can't remember her name) said "town core does NOT mean creating a "downtown". I got "the look". Peggy ?? mentioned the parking garage. You envision Mayberry. I envisioned a downtown. I think it would be helpful if the Town Core committee would take 10 minutes in the meeting to redefine what is intended for the Town Core. The concept seems to be losing support due to folks not understanding it, which is sad. As Mike states above Scuba Jane had a great comment, which I cannot recall exactly (Jane, pls post your comment), but it was something like "Summerfield is going to grow regardless, we can either grow with a plan & control the growth, or without a plan & not have control". So very true !!!!!! Last edited on Feb 9th, 2006 04:02 am by Steve Adkins |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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Steve/Cracker Jax: I found this on the Town of Summerfield web site, under planning... don't know if it helps or not.... TCD – TOWN CORE DISTRICT Town of Summerfield Development Ordinance ARTICLE IV ZONING 4-1 DISTRICTS ESTABLISHED In order to achieve the purposes of this Ordinance as set forth, all property within the jurisdiction of Town of Summerfield is divided into districts with the designations and purposes listed in Section 4-2 (District Descriptions). 4-2 DISTRICT DESCRIPTIONS 4.23H The Town Core District strives to preserve the small town character of central Summerfield and is intended to encourage residents to visit the town center. By encouraging old-fashioned neighborhoods where one encounters natural and non-intrusive mixing of commerce, residential, and civic uses, the town will provide access for the daily needs of its residents. There are two distinct areas included within the TCD, mixed and residential. TCD-Mixed includes a mixture of residential, commercial, and office uses that are compatible with each other. TCD-R is for residential uses only. These regulations are specified in Section 4-11 (Overlay District Requirements). Revisions Approved by Summerfield Town Council July 6, 2004 4-11.4 Town Core Overlay District (A) District Established: Boundary of the Town Core Overlay District is delineated on the Official Town of Summerfield Zoning Map. (B) Town Core District-Mixed (TCD-M) Requirements: 1) Uses: TCD-M uses are designated within the permitted use schedule as having a TCD-M designation. 2) Pedestrian Movement and Access: Adjacent non-residential uses will be linked by pedestrian access. New developments shall include sidewalks along all existing and new roads. 3) Setbacks: Setbacks from the street will be fifteen (15) feet from the front property line, or forty (40) feet from centerline of the road, whichever is greater. Setbacks are reduced to create a more enclosed, pedestrian scale. EXCEPTION: Properties fronting and accessing US HWY 220 will use underlying zoning setback requirements. 4) Building Materials: Materials such as brick, stone, wood, or other like and similar materials are required on all new construction and additions that are visible from a public right-of-way. The Governing Body may approve other building materials that meet or exceed the standards established by this ordinance. 5) Size: No single building shall be greater than 10,000 square feet of gross floor area, with a building footprint not to exceed 5,000 square feet and a height of no greater than 2 1⁄2 stories at grade, or 35 feet, whichever is greater. 6) Architectural Design: Long blank walls are discouraged. For every thirty (30) feet of building frontage, there shall be a change in front building façade, i.e. relief, elevation, design, building material, or other like distinction. The Governing Body may approve alternative building designs that meet or exceed the standards established by this ordinance. 7) Parking: Parking is discouraged in front of the building(s). Parking shall be limited to one single row in front of the building. All other parking shall be located to the side or rear of the structure(s). Adjoining commercial and institutional development is encouraged to share parking. This shall follow the standards established in article 6-2.6 Combined Parking. 8) Signage: All signage shall be limited to the Neighborhood District Standards, Article 6-1, Sign Regulations. (C) Town Core Residential Requirements: 1) Town Core Residential Development shall be compatible with the existing nature of residential community. The following requirements apply to new single-family construction. a) Single-family homes will orient toward the street; b) Accessory buildings will be constructed of the same or like materials of residential structures and will be appropriate in scale and design; and c) New residential dwellings will be required to plant and maintain a minimum of two canopy trees, as defined in article 6-3 Landscape Requirements. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Wow Vicki... Who'd have thought to look there... I feel dumb. THANKS! I don't know about you all, but that doesn't sound too bad to me. What town money is involved?? Sidewalks?? Is that it?? After a quick read thru I still don't see a mention of a parking garage... and I can't imagine there ever being a need for such... My interpretation is more along the lines of what the Summerfield Village shopping center has... several stores sharing a parking lot when they say combined parking.... Of course I have not read article 6-2.6 referred to above. I wish someone would contact this lady (Peggy? Sorry, I don't remember her name) and invite her in here to share her views with us. I would be interested in hearing why she is so against this plan. I'm not knocking her opinion, I just don't understand it. A nice parking lot shared by several businesses might also help to alleviate the problem of folks parking on her grass during town events. Hmmm... I need to study a map of the proposed town core as well. As for the Summerfield Rd. area which seemed to be her concern, there is only so much land that could be developed around there and I don't forsee a mall or anything requiring excessive parking moving in there.... Is she upset about the remodel of the Yost and Little house?? I am sorry, but I think it is beautiful (with the exception of the "not so attractive" yellow real estate magazine stand on the front porch). I would think the neighbors would welcome a quiet little business instead of something like Subway at lunchtime..... We all definitely need to educate ourselves further on the Town Core Plan. I am afraid we may be on the verge of losing yet another wonderful vision for Summerfield. Last edited on Feb 9th, 2006 04:49 am by Cracker Jax |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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Cracker Jax, I didn't mean to make you feel dumb. I look for things like this as I research for articles....just decided to check to see if it was there when you and Steve were talking about what it was. I knew Stokesdale's plan, which I know more about, includes descriptions of areas, so thought there might be something in Summerfield's.... Glad to be of help.... I'm hoping to attend a Summerfield TC meeting sometime soon. I have lots of experience with Stokesdale and would like to visit some other meetings sometime.... So far, I've had other conflicts... |
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StewartM Member
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Vickie what you are looking at is the Town Core Ordinance. What Carrie and the Town core committee are working on is a plan. Depending on what the committee recommends to council the Ordinance may have to be changed to match the plan. These ideals come from meetings the citizens have, and then they take it to council to vote on. All the big ideals that you see the Town take action on have been give to committees of citizens. They beat the ideals to death and then makes a recommendation to council. This has been know to take years before a recommendation is made. |
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macca Member
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Mike, What is the difference between ordinance and what they are talking about? Is the ordinance a guideline? I guess what I'm getting at is, if it's part of the ordinance, what is its purpose if not to help folks know what the goal is? I mean, it says some stuff about what the town core should be? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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The feeling I got at the TC meeting was all or nothing. Either we had a Town Core plan or the citizen from Tannery was advocating a no plan. I am afraid if the Town stops and there is no plan then we are indanger of having happen exactly what she envisions, Fast food restaurants, big parking areas. The only thing stopping this from happening now are the 5 votes on the council. So you say they know what we want so it isn't going to happen, well with out ordinances and a vision, what happens if the next council "doesn't know what we want"? What happens if Mr. Fast Food developer buys up some of the land for sale on Old Summerfield Rd. and advocates a fast food restaurant and he takes the Town to court. The judge would look at the Long Range Plan for Summerfield and conceivably allow the restaurant because we have no ordinances to stop it. I understand there is tremendous pressure right now on the Town Core from Commercial developers. What legal document does the Town have in place to protect those home owners from those pressures while allowing people to develop their land to its highest potential? Very little! This is why we need to work together to develop a plan that balances those two tensions so that the Town has a win win situation. |
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StewartM Member
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macca wrote: Mike, What is the difference between ordinance and what they are talking about? Is the ordinance a guideline? I guess what I'm getting at is, if it's part of the ordinance, what is its purpose if not to help folks know what the goal is? I mean, it says some stuff about what the town core should be? A ordinance is the law, it puts the bite into a plan. The plan is a guideline. It is two different things. They are trying to come up with a plan for the Town core. Then the Ordinance will make the plan legal to enforce. We have got to have some type of plan for our future. |
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macca Member
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So if the ordinance is the law, what needs to happen now to make sure what it describes is enforceable? |
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wepete Member
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Election day I had a chance to speak with a long term friend who lives on Summerfield Road. He was planning on selling his house and moving to Rockingham County because he did not want to live in the "Town Core" Seems he had bought a house in a residential area and did not like the idea of being forced to give up part of his small yard for sidewalks. He hated the idea of loosing the age old stone walls and some of the trees that line the street just so he could live close to a mixed commercial use. (have you ever seen a mixed use area that did not go mostly commercial cause folks move out??) He was also concerned that the committee forcing these changes on him had members who will not be affected. (I have no idea if that is true). I don't have a dog in this fight and would support whatever the folks who live there want to do... just thought his feelings were germane to the conversation. |
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macca Member
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Good info, wepete. Thanks for sharing. Always good to hear from all sides, and that seems a valid point... Is it true that most mixed use areas eventually go mostly commercial? What about areas where apartments are over businesses, or buildings that have been commercial are converted to living space? I guess in older towns that is what happens, right? |
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wepete Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: I understand there is tremendous pressure right now on the Town Core from Commercial developers. What legal document does the Town have in place to protect those home owners from those pressures while allowing people to develop their land to its highest potential?you are right Jane... but how can we say no restaurants, fast or slow, when we strive to allow folks to develop to the highest potential and we must act like a town?. We have to remember there is no requirement for the town to provide for the highest return on a property only reasonable use. If there was such a requirement folks could build anything right smack dab next to anyone. That's why we have zoning. But in writing zoning we have to be very careful. Oak Ridge once adopted a County recommended ordinance provision that would allow a dry cleaning plant (not a store but very explosive plant) to be built next to a home with 10 or 15 foot setbacks in a certain district. |
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StewartM Member
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macca wrote: So if the ordinance is the law, what needs to happen now to make sure what it describes is enforceable? The town planner enforce the ordinance now. The council controls what is in the ordinance. The committee is only working on a plan right now. I agree with Bill the people living in the core area should come up with the plan. Sidewalks would be built by the owner (paid for by the owner) only when they want to develop the property. Bill I would never want the rock walls to be alter in any way. This should be in the plan made by citizens in the area. |
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wepete Member
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macca wrote: Is it true that most mixed use areas eventually go mostly commercial? What about areas where apartments are over businesses, or buildings that have been commercial are converted to living space? I guess in older towns that is what happens, right? Sociology 101 teaches the normal growth pattern of cities. I don't know if you can compare most mixed use areas with the Summerfield Town Core as they are probably not analogous due to the size difference. Whatever, its not that easy of an answer. There is so much that goes into it. Size, price, convenience, commuting, tax considerations etc., ad nausea. I assume, like cities, each area has its own pattern. I am not sure I have seen much multi-story mixed use in very small CBD's. One thing is for certain... the TC definition seems to say "we want to convert this area to a CBD and attract folk to it." I can certainly understand the wank of folks who live there hearing how they have to change their neighborhood because someone who doesn't live there wants a town core to drive by on their way to Wal-Mart in Greensboro. Perhaps John Harman would take the project on. (He did State Street) |
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macca Member
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Appreciate the different persepective.... I thought they were trying to define the town core in order to preserve it and keep it from being uncontrolled growth... to preserve what is there and make anything else that might be allowed be more compatible with what is already there.... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Now Bill you know that no plan does not guarantee these folks no change. There is already commercial development all through Summerfield Rd. With no plan what stops the people next to the post office from requesting a commercial zoning. What guidance does the council having to deny the zoning? Sorry I agree with Macca I view the Town Core plan as guidance for the Town in the future to keep the very thing you are talking about from happening. Uncontrolled growth which runs the residents out. I am sorry that the person moved where ever because he didn't want side walks in his front yard but I think he must not have understood the Town Core plan at all if that is why he left. Never ever has the Town Core committee advocated the Town Core tear down the rock walls for sidewalks. They have discussed the possibilty of running a sied walk right along the road and other options but one of the goals of the Town Core is to protect the residents from commercial rezoning. |
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donw Member
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There will be many questions by citizens who currently live in the town core area, which will create a lot of uncertainty. When a small group of people plan the future for citizens who live in the town core area - everything needs to be explained very - very well. Right now the idea of a town core sounds good, so that Summerfield can say "we created a town core". Lets not forget that many, many people enjoy Summerfield like it is and there are many who want it to change. The bottom line is we need to ask those directly involved. Those living in the town core area. If they over rule the idea I believe we need to repect their thoughts and their investment- it is their property you are trying to change. There is no easy answer-- But I side with those who live there and if they say no - then no it is. As far as the rezoning goes-the council can deny this and keep it residential. PROBLEM SOLVED! Last edited on Feb 9th, 2006 02:29 pm by donw |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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There have been years of monthly meetings with invitations to all the neighbors directly involved open to the public of course. The meetings are advertised in the newpaper, 2 public hearings properly advertised which were attended by several dozen people. I don't think the Town Core committee can do any more to involve the citzens. The committee has several Town Core members on it. What else can be done? |
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StewartM Member
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Hi Don glad to see you back..... The Town core needs to start with a smaller area. Let the owners work on their plan. We cannot just take a chance on developers to do the right thing, There must be some type of plan. Zoning does not take care of everything. This needs to protect the residents, not harm them. Remember they are the Town..... |
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Hairbrush Member
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Don, how do you know that the next town council won't be very commercial friendly? Without the proper plan and ordinance in place you can't depend on the fact that council will uphold the vision of the people. I would like to think that would happen, but we have already stated that everyone has a different vision. The council has already rezoned commercial for the Yost and Little property, what is to keep the next house and then the next house from zoning commercial? Not anything but the town council right now I expect. And without ordinances in place you would be hard pressed to deny the next person a commercial re-zoning when you already passed one right up the street. |
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wepete Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Now Bill you know that no plan does not guarantee these folks no change. I am not sure I have ever said that it did. Even after the flames I'd like to think I am not that stupid. I hate that I missed the meeting from which DC forwarded me some audio. It was very interesting. There was more than 10 minutes of a lady who lives on Tannery and spoke very well about neighborhood concerns. Another real attention grabber was references to two BB memos written several months apart that were reported to say ANY plan would require water and sewer. If Bruce was right then it seems there needs to be a wheel spinning award issued here. Duh-huh! For the history buffs... The oldest version of the LTP I have easy access to is #4 dated April 2000. It would seem reasonable to extrapolate Summerfield has discussed the TC since sometime in 1999. The concept came to Sumerfield through the vision of Michael Brown who, at the time, was our contracted Guilford County Planner and the only member of the committee with actual planning experience. According to LTP Daft #4... " The Town Core District (TCD) is an "overlay designation" which strives to preserve the small town character of Central Summerfield and is intended to encourage residents to visit the town center. By encouraging traditional development patterns where one encounters natural and non-intrusive mixing of commerce, residential and civic uses (churches, schools, playgrounds, etc.,), the Town Core provides access for the daily needs of its residents. The diversity of the district and the integrity of the various sections that comprise the district will be important considerations in land-use planning. The overall goal of the district is preservation of the "small town" character of Summerfield." Jane, not to pick, but isn't that saying the early intent was to keep it like it is? |
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wepete Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: With no plan what stops the people next to the post office from requesting a commercial zoning. What guidance does the council having to deny the zoning?Er... not to be flippant but I'd guess that would be because of the fire station on one side and I think the other the other was already rezoned for conditional commercial use when we served together on the council. (don't bother... I know what you meant.... but why start on the premise that you want to deny?) |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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With out further clarification of the LTP that vision will not stop the two supposed commercial projects that are in the works right now. The only thing stopping the commercial development will be 5 council members and as I have said before while I think these 5 will continue with the vision what about the next council? What stops somebody from building McMansions ? Is that part of the vision? Does McDonalds fit in that vision? The vision needs to be further spelled out or we will potientially end up with something we didn't invision. |
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wepete Member
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Jane, I have every reason to believe you are correct. I remember the rezoning of the corner of Lake Brandt and 150. A council member said the Commercial Needs Assessment said the corner should be commercial. It was rezoned from AG to one of the most intensive zonings in Summerfield. The problem was the CNA stated it needed to be low impact commercial and the council failed to recognize that small detail. They can do the same thing with the LTP, In fact they can do it with the ordinance. But if what you are after is stopping McDonalds, or Exxon, or Wal-Mart, or whatever unpopular business de jour why in the world do you want to force folks to have sidewalks and parking and traffic and commercial and something other than what they intended to live near when they spent a big chunk on a home and set out to establish roots. Seems like you'd just make the bad boys persona non grata and let the bystanders be. Remember how much you hated the idea of being annexed into Summerfield when it would have absolutely no effect on how you lived your life or enjoyed your home? Think some of those folks on Summerfield Road feel even more intensely about the TC district and changes being forced on them? |
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FatPappy Member
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For somebody with no dog in the fight, wepete, I sure hear a lot of barkin' an' whinin', you petulant pup. Mostly whinin'. Audio from DC! Congratulations. Relationships are important. Wouldn't the concerns of the lady who spoke at the meetin' an' also your buddy who erroneously thought he'd have to tear down his rock wall be better served by havin' a plan that further clarifies the LTP and preserves the small town character of the town core? How does quotin' the LTP Draft #4 negate anything Jane has been sayin'? Change is goin' to happen one way or another, isn't it? Shouldn't we try to guide that change? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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"I hate that I missed the meeting from which DC forwarded me some audio." Bill I am concerned where DC got his audio. Since the lady from Tannery road was in the audience and not up at the microphone where did DC get the audio? Surely it is not legal for him to be taping the meeting with out our knowldege? Where are the microphones? Is this an example of the fair open government we can expect? |
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wepete Member
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FatPappy wrote: For somebody with no dog in the fight, wepete, I sure hear a lot of barkin' an' whinin', you petulant pup. Mostly whinin'. Audio from DC! Congratulations. Relationships are important. Wow! I had nearly finished a long detailed response to you in which I not only answered your comments with such precision and clarity world peace would surely follow, I had even neatly wrapped in a sly little slam regarding your comments on Sunday morning reflections yet slipping in still another flame. Then without warning something wrapped my port and would not let me access mysql (if the web master is reading it was line 25). I had to reboot and all was lost. So I give. Once again I fall victim to your rapier wit and desire to flame. Atta Boy Pappy! Me thinks I have established my desire to plan. 'Nuff said on that! Don't think I said it was his wall... but if your are gonna have flat straight sidewalks sufficiently far enough from the road to offer some safety then something like bushes, walls, flowers, trees, is gonna go. Take a drive and look And yes... relationships are important. Heck, I even talk to folks who post incorrect assumptions as fact, consistently flame folk, even folks who have lied and called others liars (when they were not). Never know when someone might let you know something like the head planner consistently wrote that without resources that were not available any version of the TC district would fail. Now ain't that a show stopper? YES OR NO: Is it true you have a financial interest in land in the TC district that may see a significant value increase if it is served by water and sewer? |
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wepete Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Surely it is not legal for him to be taping the meeting with out our knowldege? Where are the microphones? Is this an example of the fair open government we can expect?I don't know... You'd need to ask a lawyer about it being legal. My assumption would be a public meeting that uses recorded minutes as the official record would be public domain. The minutes certainly are public documents and as long as they are not altered with the altered copy being misrepresented as accurate I would guess they are freely distributable in whole or in part. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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bill... We are all trying to LEARN about the town core plans and have asked some good questions here. We are trying to be careful not to assume the word of the council members OR the word of the woman on Tannery who spoke at the meeting is the gospel.... We are trying to understand the concerns of the residents who live near the Town Core. You have the ability and the knowledge to offer us great insight, but your words are lost because folks are constantly trying to figure out the hidden meaning in your flaming posts and who exactly you are trying to slam... For instance, if you think any council member is being unethical, just say so and we'll investigate it and make our own decisions.... Don't make us continually guess who you are talking about. Too much busy work.... Please stop being so negative and let's see if we can't find a solution to the problems.... YES or NO: Are you saying that a compromise between the Town Core committee and the residents is not possible??? |
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FatPappy Member
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wepete wrote:
Sounds like you suffered the judgment of a Higher Pappy. Hee hee! Atta boy, Higher Pappy. Me thinks I have established my desire to plan. 'Nuff said on that! Huh? Pappythinks you have established nothing except your own petulance at being challenged. What exactly do you want for the town core? I can't figure out what you're talkin' about. "Desire to plan"? I thought you were against plannin' an' just wanted it left alone or something? Speak up, boy! Don't think I said it was his wall... but if your are gonna have flat straight sidewalks sufficiently far enough from the road to offer some safety then something like bushes, walls, flowers, trees, is gonna go. Take a drive and look OK, "a" wall, not "his" wall. You're right, though, I don't want any of that torn up either. Any ideas? And yes... relationships are important. Heck, I even talk to folks who post incorrect assumptions as fact, consistently flame folk, even folks who have lied and called others liars (when they were not). Never know when someone might let you know something like the head planner consistently wrote that without resources that were not available any version of the TC district would fail. Now ain't that a show stopper? I like talkin' to all kinds, too. I just about always learn somethin' valuable, too. Couldn't those missin' resources be made available? Hasn't this been known about for years? What's been goin' on all these years? YES OR NO: Is it true you have a financial interest in land in the TC district that may see a significant value increase if it is served by water and sewer? "NO" to the question as it is stated here. So do you think land value would really go up? How about you? What bone are you after in this, pup? I wasn't plannin' on joinin' the town core discussion till you just kept on talkin' down to Jane like she's beneath your mightiness an' you kept puttin' in what I'm sure you must have thought were clever jabs. Let the people who live in the town core speak up. I don't have any answers except plannin' is better than not plannin.' And one more thing..."I know you are, but what am I?" Hee hee hee! |
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FatPappy Member
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Well said, Crackah! This would be fun if it wasn't so tiresome. (Edited by SA) Uh-oh! Pappy suffered the judgment of a Higher Super Moderator! Last edited on Feb 12th, 2006 08:57 pm by FatPappy |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Well folks, I'm all for a spirited discussion, but this one is going downhill fast. Can everyone please take the testosterone down one octave, and get back to the issues? The Town Core discussion certainly provokes emotions & frustrations, which need to be out in the open. Thanks to all who are posting, this has been greatly informative, please keep the discussion going. SMS |
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Waytago Member 
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wepete wrote: Wow! I had nearly finished a long detailed response to you in which I not only answered your comments with such precision and clarity world peace would surely follow, Miss Congeniality would have been proud. |
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FatPappy Member
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Changed my mind about this one. Last edited on Feb 12th, 2006 11:58 pm by FatPappy |
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StewartM Member
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Bottom line we need a plan, too many things can happen without a plan |
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Hairbrush Member
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So Bill Bruce said that without sewer and water the town core couldn't go on as planned. I think Carrie made it very clear that there needed to be a town core plan and that she needed guidance and input from those involved. I still think the area needs a plan (whether I am right or wrong about what is already commercial and what is not) so that the residential areas can be protected as well as the school area. |
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Skiddles Member
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It sounds reasonable to think ahead in this case and not to leave things to chance or by crossing fingers. It is wise to state your desires, look towards the future and then plan your path. The residences directly involved and their “hands-on commitment” towards its design should drive this town core plan. The weight of a pink elephant moving in next door, would be mainly on its neighbors. Yes, we have zoning and Town Council final say sos, but would you want to gamble your home and happiness on the hopes that a future unidentified Town Council would see things the same way you see them? Why not plan and distinguish who your neighbors will be and what your town will look like in 5, 15 or 50 years. A well built plan will protect the residence and not harm them. |
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Hairbrush Member
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Well said Skiddles. |
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donw Member
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Lets not forget ---- Ordinances are subject to change. Nothing is 100% sure. When new council members do get elected they will have ideas and are capable of tweeking ordinances. Bottom line-- That is why we have elections - so we can get people who stand on principles and do what they say. If citizens want their neighborhood changed - than they need to opproach the council requesting change or the other option is to vote for candidates who won't change their neighborhood. Something to think about!  |
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StewartM Member
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Don, Citizens should always direct a plan for their neighborhood. We need Ordinances and a Town core plan to make it harder for a council to change things. We all know at any given time council can change things, at least with a plan it will show a path to travel...... |
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donw Member
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Mike, You are right and I understand where you are coming from. I am only helping citizens understand that an ordinance is subject to change. Also I am pointing out the importance of elections and getting out to VOTE for candidates that will fight for you. |
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wepete Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: Please stop being so negative and let's see if we can't find a solution to the problems.... YES or NO: Are you saying that a compromise between the Town Core committee and the residents is not possible??? Sorry... Was not trying to be negative. I can see how my comments might be taken that way but that was not the intent. I agree that planning is necessary. I established the Long Term Planning Committee, Chaired the Committee that rewrote the County zoning ordinance to fit our need, Chaired an ad-hoc committee of three that took the abandoned long term plan off the shelf and wrote recommended changes to the ordinance. There is a lot more... but I think as I told Pappy I have established my dedication to planning and actually getting things done. Planning isn't just setting a goal like "We need sidewalks." Its also asking what problems will we face if we actually build them. I don't know if there is an answer to how to build them in the residential area. It looks to my eye we would have to move a lot of front yard to build them and property tapper hills and keep them a safe distance from the road. The most important first step of planning is a clear statement and understanding of the goal. Do we still see preserving what we have as the goal or are we looking to build a new CBD? Clearly if we build a CBD it will not be a multistory mixed use district like old Greensboro or Tate Street. Demographics have changed and are just plain different in Summerfield Are there businesses we don't want? Jane mentioned McDonnalds but what if a local wants to build a What-a-Burger? We looked at a lot of restrictions like no drive through windows, nothing over a stated square footage. The rule of unforeseen consequences is clearly in play. We have to start with what is it about a business we don't like? Arches? Low Prices? Perhaps a archless McDees would be ok. But to me the biggest concern is if we are going to try and change it the folks who suffer the effects must be considered. They were there first and have a lot invested. Protecting that right is THE reason we incorporated the town. What gives anyone the right to force it on them if there is not a public necessity. So is a compromise even in order? I don't know. Are we dealing with wants or needs? Thinking as I go, one answer might be to separate the district into TC-Mixed Use, TC-Residential, and TC-Commercial designations. Protect the residents and provide for the other uses nearby. Now Pappy is insulting and attacking me but did you read his answer? I asked if he owned land in the area that was subject to increase in value. He said he did not as the question was asked. Well duh... there's a great big yes to a question such as "do you any land in whole or in part in the area?" So its not a slam or a flame. Its an attempt to find out what motivation he has if any. That's not to say its wrong. And I did think it was directed at one person.... nothing cryptic about that one. I 've actually been mostly agreeing with Jane. Just looking for details. What I hear from folks who live there is they don't want a TC. They want it to remain residential. I am sure we can provide a TC and protections and reach an "agreeable to all" but to do so we have to know were we are going and why we are taking the trip. So we ask as many questions in advance as we can. To me that includes establishing the motivations of those most strongly for or against. |
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Skiddles Member
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wepete wrote: The most important first step of planning is a clear statement and understanding of the goal. You are correct wepete, this should be the first step, a clear statement. What I have been hearing is possibly a problem to establish this. Is this correct? The Town Core committee will put into writing, a plan to establish the way in which the Town Core district will grow? This committee will establish guidelines to which will be, in this area. A guide or plan?
Your concerns are heard wepete. If the folk that live in the Town Core area know these meetings involving them and their property are happening then they have a personal decision to make... do I become involve or not. I would hope that all would become involved and be proactive in establishing the "goal" and then possibly a "plan." It should be driven by them, hands down. As to the ones that do not become involved, what do you do??? How do you get the people out to help themselves, protect themselves and not surface at the 11th hour as a disruption to a fair process. Some may even think that they are being forced to change when they have had a multitude of chances to let their voices heard, but chose to do nothing??
Wepete, as I have heard several times on this forum.... the property owners (like the folk with the rock wall) are the ones that should drive this committee. Now aren't they the land owners? Glad you aren't slamming or flaming about, because it is the landowner's motivation which will give you their opinions. It's just hard to figure out what cards everyone are holding, so why play poker if you have the town best interest at heart... and I believe you do. I 've actually been mostly agreeing with Jane. Just looking for details. What I hear from folks who live there is they don't want a TC. They want it to remain residential. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a TC help in this? I know every ordinance is subject to change, but wouldn't it give the Town Council a guide to what the TC should look like, given to them by this committee, many of the residence in the area? Trying to understand here. I am sure we can provide a TC and protections and reach an "agreeable to all" but to do so we have to know were we are going and why we are taking the trip. So we ask as many questions in advance as we can. I agree... let's look to the future wepete. Thanks for your insight Last edited on Feb 14th, 2006 06:11 pm by Skiddles |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy's gonna give you a "Well said, Ol' Bean," on that one, wepete. You're comin' in loud an' clear now. I'll even take you at your word that you weren't tryin' to be negative an' attack Jane an' all that an' maybe I just misunderstood what you were tryin' to say. Anyway, I agree with the gist of what you're sayin' here. Got no argument with it. The people who live there should have the biggest say in what happens in their front yards, we need a good plan with all the holes plugged, not just a wish list, not just some romantic vision, etc. I agree. I don't agree that I should feel the need to answer to you about any business dealin's I may or may not have. If anyone else on the forum thinks I need to explain further, then I'll reconsider. An' furthermore, I don't understand why you're questionin' my motivation to begin with. What's your motivation for that? I haven't been goin' around sayin' "We gotta have a town core now!" or anything like that. Why you keep barkin' up that tree? What I'm strongly for is Summerfield. That's my motivation. Wait, I do own somethin' that just went waaaaaaay up in value. Pappy's ol' huntin' dog. He don't never bark up the wrong tree! On second thought, I couldn't sell Ol' Calhoun on Valentine's Day. |
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macca Member
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It seems to me that what we are about here is just discussing things, so I don't understand why ANYONE needs to divulge ANYTHING. I mean, sometimes people just want to play the "devil's advocate" in order to get people to consider all sides of an issue.... To try to force people to identify themselves in a forum where they are not required to seems unfair. No one is being forced to participate here and no one is being pressured to "buy into" any particular set of beliefs. It seems that people are just engaging in discussion of issues, which I believe is healthy. I don't see the need for the personal innuendoes or questioning of anyone's motives. |
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Skiddles Member
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macca wrote: It seems that people are just engaging in discussion of issues, which I believe is healthy. I don't see the need for the personal innuendoes or questioning of anyone's motives. YEP, well said! Last edited on Feb 14th, 2006 11:07 pm by Skiddles |
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StewartM Member
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Skiddles wrote: macca wrote:I'll second that......It seems that people are just engaging in discussion of issues, which I believe is healthy. I don't see the need for the personal innuendoes or questioning of anyone's motives. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Hey ya'll... I moved ALL the town core postings over to the Town Core topic under Summerfield. (I somehow missed that we had a Town Core topic... Sorry Sandra!) Anyway, please carry on with any Town Core discussions over there since we have an entire topic for that if you don't mind. THANKS!!! |
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FatPappy Member
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Tapin' at meetin's. Whether 'tis proper for individuals to tape record durin' meetin's was brought up durin' the Town Core meltdown, but I reckon it needs to be cussed, I mean discussed here in the Town Council forum. Pappy did a little Googlin' on the subject whilst my coffee beans was boilin' and found some different opinions aroun' the country concernin' tapin' at meetins'. One bunch says it's a public meetin' an' tapin' ought to be allowed. The other bunch says only the governin' body involved should be allowed to do the tapin' so ever'body ends up with the same official version. One place in Tejas made a ordinance against individual tapin', so there is a precedent for it. Pappy sees three problems with individual tapin'. One: A man had ought to be able to talk to the person beside him, sotto voce like, and not worry about some techno geek audio voyeur with a mini directional parabolic diabolic microphone pickin' up what ought to be a private conversation. Two: I don't want any taped version altered an' then passed around as the real thing tellin' folks this is what was said. They could do that with the official version too, o' course. Three: If someone's tapin' somebody else, the people bein' taped ought to know they're bein' taped and by whom. ("Whom?" What's in them beans, Pappy? Javajavajavajavajava.) Considerin' the possibilities for abuse with individual tapin' or the appearance of abuse, which can be just as damagin', Pappy is leanin' toward agreein' with the second bunch that wants to ban individual tapin'. Also considerin' the level of mistrust between two factions in the town, allowin' tapin' might what they call exacerbate that situation. 'Course bannin' it could cause a ruckus too. It's a worrisome subject worthy of ponderin.' |
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FatPappy Member
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On t'other hand, maybe we could all just buy one o' these spy pen microphones just like the Equalizer an' the Man From Uncle carried an' we could all be packin' heat! Custom Lithium Powered, Amplified "Pen Microphone" This unique microphone looks exactly like an ordinary ball point pen. Hidden within, however, is a small omni-directional electric condenser microphone, 300 hour lithium power cell, and 10X amplification circuit capable of picking up conversations at over 25 feet away! Unit comes complete with 5 ft. mini-cable, carry case and lithium battery. (Spare lithium battery also included) PM-10 Lithium Powered Pen Mic with 3.5MM Mini Plug Price: $150.00 |
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StewartM Member
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Does that $150 include attorney fees..........I have seen one that looks like a clipboard..... Last edited on Feb 15th, 2006 03:38 pm by StewartM |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I am checking into this issue and will let you all know what I find out ASAP. Yikes, you guys are scaring me with this Equalizer/Man from Uncle-type equipment. Guess everybody better watch what they say!  |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: What do you think about the Town Council Meetings? The last elections placed two members of the Concerned Citizens on the council. What has been the impact of this membership change? How is the Town Council performing with the change in cross section? Since the Town Core discussions have been moved to the Town Core topic (thank you CJ), I have copied the original topic questions above so we can get this topic re-focused to Town Council related topics. Blog on.............. |
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StewartM Member
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So far the new ones have not practiced what they preached. They have caused the wasteful spending of tax dollars. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Since things are kind of quiet, this is probably as good a time as any to post this (you guys can blast me for this if you want). I went to the council's budget session on Saturday. I was kind of surprised to hear one of the council members refer to this as a "hate blog against two council members." The intention for us starting this site was not for it to be considered a "hate site" against anybody. I think the idea is for the open exchange of ideas. We certainly don't all have to agree -- in fact, it would be pretty boring if everyone did. That being said, I'd love it if some of those who disagree with what many of you seem to think would feel comfortable enough to get on here. I'd like to see some real debating -- issues, not personalities. Any ideas on how to make that happen? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I can't imagine why those two would think such a thing!!!! Ok.. I can imagine. Since the election however, I have made an EXTREME effort to be nice to folks who come on here voicing opinions differing from the current posting majority.... I am not making excuses, cause I was pretty nasty I would love to see more folks with varying opinions join the forum. I would especially like to hear from Dwayne from time to time. That being said..... Dwayne and Becky... We do know you are reading the forum... This is the only way we know to get our thoughts and views about your actions across to you and out to the public. If no one is here defending you, we can't help it. You are the chosen leaders and I think it is up to you to blaze the trail for your followers to join the forum. We are getting pretty popular so if you want your voice to be heard it might behoove you to join our discussions.... I WOULD LIKE TO CORDIALLY INVITE DWAYNE AND BECKY AND OTHER CONCERNED CITIZENS TO JOIN THIS FORUM I WILL PROMISE TO BE NICE (unless you continually slam volunteers) AND IN ADDITION, I WILL ENCOURAGE OTHER FORUM MEMBERS TO BE OPEN MINDED AND KIND AS WELL. (Lots of times they actually listen to me....) I truly have a lot of questions I'd like to ask you and I promise to do so respectfully. oh... p.s. Being elected officials, you gotta expect a little political "ribbing" now and again, so you might not want to hang out on the MAAN forum... Thank you Sandra for letting us know. |
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macca Member
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StewartM wrote:Skiddles wrote:macca wrote:I'll second that......It seems that people are just engaging in discussion of issues, which I believe is healthy. I don't see the need for the personal innuendoes or questioning of anyone's motives. Speaking as the person who wrote this, and showing that there has been support voiced for my thoughts, I'd say we've already shown that we welcome diverse opinions. I cannot speak for everyone, but I truly believe, based on my experiences here, that people do welcome varied opinions. I think the only time we've experienced any kind of difficulty here is when people have felt personally attacked for expressing their opinions. I believe we all support the right of ANYONE to express their opinions here. ♥♥♥ |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Well I have thought and thought about your posting Sandra and I was going to try and take the high road like Cracker and Macca but people would then know I was lying. So here is what I think. Poor new council members who have spent the last 3 years standing up in council meetings and humiliating everybody that dared to disagree with their vision or lack of vision for Summerfield are now offended by our blogging? I really feel " not my problem." Hate blog is pretty strong for what is going on here. I think a little self important also. I think what is going on here are a lot of very literate, creative people expressing opinions about things they feel very strongly about, their Town. Does it get intense absolutely. Do people get hurt? I would hope not. I guess I go back to the old saying about "Sticks and Stones". Do people get called for their statements absolutely but isn't that the purpose of blogging? An exchange of ideas? Bill Peterson and I have argued for years now and sometimes it gets too intense but on a blog we can just turn off the computer and walk away. I am sorry people don't understand or feel comfortable with exchanging ideas. Will they get attacked possibly but I really don't know how you know what you really believe if you don't take it out and examine it every once in a while. So Sandra I am sorry that people misunderstand what is going on here but again I think that is their problem not mine. I intend to exchange ideas and call people to task about things I don't agree with them on. They certainly have the right to try to point out to me the errors of my ways. Thanks for all you do. Now if I could just figure out how to spell check I would be happy. |
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Kris McNeill Member
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I am not a Summerfieldian but as the famous Macca once said, "I can play one on the internet" My mama always said, "Don't dish it out if you can't take it!" |
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Waytago Member
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Steve Adkins wrote:
Hmmmmmmm..........if the shoe fits???? Seems our newest TC persons don't like what they're hearing. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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ok... so maybe I can only speak for myself....
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StewartM Member
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Sandra this is not a hate blog. Look at all the hearts....This is a love of our Town blog, One thing the CC taught me the last few years is getting attack is part of the job of being on council. Now is seems they can't take the heat. Why are they afraid to come out of the closet and be a part of this forum. Could it be they would have to answer questions, that they are still running from. I would welcome them to the forum and not do personal attacks like the CC. But I will question their actions. Well Becky and Dwayne we know your watching. Lets get the truth out in the open. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy tries to take the high road from time to time too, but I'm a little scared of heights. Crackah and Sandra I can't promise to be nice all the time, but I'll promise to try an' keep a open mind along with my open mouth. Just like Billy Jack though, sometimes I just go BERSERK! Just so's you know, here's more or less where I stand right now. I have never seen the CC reach out to anyone in any kind of meanin'ful two-way exchange of ideas, ever, in the whole time they've been active. Never. It's always been their own choreographed, one-sided, them-against-us, monologue. MONOLOGUE. Never a dialogue as equals. Never. Hate blog? Oh yeah, well, they started it. Yes, I've poked fun at 'em, I've insulted 'em because frankly, I don't like 'em right now and I don't trust 'em because I've seen what they're capable of. I don't see any way to get aroun' that, except over time with open dialogue (two-sided, back and forth.) Their claim of bein' offended and callin' this blog a "hate blog" strikes me as just another in what I see as their continuin' efforts to discredit the North West Observer for speakin' out against 'em. Without the NWO and the NWO sponsored forum to speak out against 'em, they'd have it made! Is that what this is about? I don't know. But it's kind of flatterin' if it is. Pappy recently had a heated online exchange with another forum participant, wepete, which was some about issues and some about personality. In the end, he delivered a very well thought out list of points he thought we needed to be considerin' in the town core plannin' process. We both put our little personal jabs in, (well, his were little...) which were really gettin' out of hand, but the tally at the end was on the plus side. He might disagree with that. Hee hee! If Becky and Dwayne, or just Dwayne, or any of the Concerned Citizens can join us here, they may find out (shudder) we're not that bad and we might find out (gak) they're actually human. They've made some valid points from time to time that got lost in the blame game. They've also delivered some harsh words at others in the past claimin' the delivery style was justified and if the recipient can't take the heat, to get out of the kitchen. I think we can take it and I think we can dish it out too, but ain't none o' us leavin' this kitchen. (Unless Sandra or Patti pull the plug. D'oh!) No humble pie, but spicy, an' fulfillin' dialogue will always be on the menu. That's DIALOGUE--conversational interplay, a exchange o' ideas BETWEEN two or more people. (Caution: contents may be hot.) Have a seat, y'all an' let's see if we can't get past some o' this mess so's we can start chawin' on the main entree. Fresh groun' pepper on that? Hee hee. |
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Billyboy Member
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Considering the underhandedness and deceit of modern day government and politics, it's especially important that taping, sunshine laws, etc., etc., not be infringed apon. As citizens, it's important to be able to have an actual transcript of what is said, not some "doctored, redacted, PC" version that gets published. Even in Gbo, the citizens are squabblin' over what's goin' on with the police chief mess, and nobody has the real story(maybe for good reason!). However, if it's a public meeting, then it is just that - public, and if someone doesn't want something to be heard, then they probably better not say it. There's merit to not allowing unauthorized taping, but only if an official, unedited, version is published. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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S. Smith wrote: Since things are kind of quiet, this is probably as good a time as any to post this (you guys can blast me for this if you want). I went to the council's budget session on Saturday. I was kind of surprised to hear one of the council members refer to this as a "hate blog against two council members." The intention for us starting this site was not for it to be considered a "hate site" against anybody. I think the idea is for the open exchange of ideas. We certainly don't all have to agree -- in fact, it would be pretty boring if everyone did. Okay, thanks for your responses to this. I just wanted to let you know how this site is being perceived, at least by some. Also, according to Dwayne and Becky, they are NOT monitoring this site. Becky says she has never read it, nor does she intend to, and she also no longer reads our paper. Dwayne told me recently that he had not been on here since the day after the election, and things were so nasty he decided not to read any further. However, something was said recently that piqued his curiosity, so he got on again, and told me that he remembered why he had stopped reading what was being said here in the first place. He said he does continue to read parts of our paper. I applaud those of you who have gotten on here and had the courage to say what you think, without attacking others. Open dialogue is great -- it broadens our perspective. Even if I don't agree with what someone says, it often gives me cause to ponder a particular person's point of view, to put myself in their shoes so to speak. Sometimes I remain committed to my point of view, sometimes I come around to what they think (if their argument is good enough), and often my feelings end up somewhere in the middle by incorporating some of their points with my own. I have really enjoyed seeing some of the discourse on this site. Jane and Bill - it's great to see you two going back and forth. It reminds me of the old days when you were both on the council. So keep it up, everybody. But as Andy Griffith would say, "Y'all be nice, y'hear?" |
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S. Smith Moderator
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FatPappy wrote: No humble pie, but spicy, an' fulfillin' dialogue will always be on the menu. That's DIALOGUE--conversational interplay, a exchange o' ideas BETWEEN two or more people. (Caution: contents may be hot.) Have a seat, y'all an' let's see if we can't get past some o' this mess so's we can start chawin' on the main entree. Fresh groun' pepper on that? Hee hee. Pappy - I love hot stuff! Extra Tabasco on mine please! |
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macca Member
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To all my pals! I am proud of you!♥♥♥       |
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Waytago Member
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S. Smith wrote: "Y'all be nice, y'hear?" Aw.......gotta give the moderators somethin' to do, don't we????? Last edited on Feb 16th, 2006 03:18 pm by Waytago |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I am sorry (for her) that Becky is supposedly not reading the NWO anymore and especially that she's supposedly not reading the forum. However, I don't believe it for a second, (You know it's wise to keep your enemies close and she's no dummy) but if she wants to play the little childish "sticks and stones I'm not listening to you game", then so be it. Dwayne was very wise to admit that he reads it "occassionally"... That way if he ever slips up in public......you know. Dwayne, I know you are reading and I really think you can gain some good insight here. I would still welcome you to the forum (I'd even pull out one of my smiley welcome signs) if you decide to join us. The NWO and NWO forum represent the views of many citizens and Becky saying that she doesn't read them tells me that she doesn't care what our views are... or at least the views of folks who don't agree with her. Not good for a public official. Have you ever considered that the poor people who voted for her were just ignorant, misguided individuals and didn't mean for us to get into this mess and the concerned citizens really don't have any followers??? Is that why they are so poorly represented on here? Sandra, I don't think anyone who has posted here since the election with opinions differing from the loudmouths on here can honestly say that they have been attacked on this forum. (examples: donw, scoutnc) OTHER than bill(wepete)... who seems to enjoy a good written battle now and again, and might even instigate one occasionally, and I don't really worry about him because he is sufficiently equipped to handle anything we can throw at him. His knowledge of town history and subjects near and dear to Summerfieldians is invaluable when he chooses to share it. We do appreciate you Bill. We will continue to try to get the word out about the forum. And we will continue to do our best to see you defeated in the next election Becky, (Cause I know you are reading too...) unless you give us a reason not to. So far you have not given us that reason. Hey! maybe you CC's could put some info about this forum in one of your mailings! That would really help to increase our readership. Thanks!
Last edited on Feb 16th, 2006 03:34 pm by Cracker Jax |
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StewartM Member
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Cracker after all of that I can only say " WELL SAID" well maybe one more thing If you our representing the citizens why would you not read the Town paper. Thanks for reading Dwayne at least you don't close your eyes to the citizens. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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FatPappy wrote: Tapin' at meetin's. Here's what I've been able to turn up on this subject so far. According to the N.C. Open Meetings Law: § 143-318.14. Broadcasting or recording meetings (a) Except as herein below provided, any radio or television station is entitled to broadcast all or any part of a meeting required to be open. Any person may photograph, film, tape-record, or otherwise reproduce any part of a meeting required to be open. Again please remember that I'm not an attorney, and I don't play on on TV, in the newspaper, or anywhere else. There may be other info out there about this, so I'll continue to research. |
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StewartM Member
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Sandra do you charge $200 a hour....Did you interview for the Summerfield job?? Law Forum of Sandra Smith Last edited on Feb 16th, 2006 05:44 pm by StewartM |
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bama80 Member
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Hopefully if it was ever brought up, one would have to cite the official taping rather than their personal one. For example, they could listen to their own for reference but if it was used for any other purpose, they would use the official one. If they used their own taping, it should be challenged as suspect. Of course, in Summerfield's case, official may/may not be used loosely. |
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FatPappy Member
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Here's somethin' interestin'. This is from: http://www.ncopengov.org/openmeetingslaw.html#record Does a citizen have the right to address a public body? No. You have a right to attend and listen. You do not have a right to talk to the public body or participate in its deliberations. Am I readin' that right? |
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FatPappy Member
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Apparently the good people o' Willow Park, Texas went a differ'nt route. Things is harsh down yonder in Tejas. This is from: http://www.willowparktx.org/Ordinances/ORDINANCE%20220-86.pdf NOW, THEREFORE, LET IT BE RESOLVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF WILLOW PARK, TEXAS: See. 1. that the video tape recording for public or private use of any meeting of the Willow Park City Council, whether such meeting is held in its regularly scheduled time or a special called meeting or a workshop meeting, shall be prohibited; save and except that the Council may cause to be video taped or recorded its meetings. See. 2. Any person, firm, possessor, owner, association or corporation violating any provision of this ordinance shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon final conviction thereof fined in an amount not to exceed One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00). Each and every day any violation continues or is allowed to exist shall constitute a separate violation and shall be punishable hereunder. Sec. 3. The City Secretary is hereby authorized and directed to cause publication of the descriptive caption and penalty clause hereof an as alternative method of publication provided by law. AND IT IS 30 ORDERED. Passed this 12 day of AUGUST , 1986, by a vote of 4 to 0 . |
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FatPappy Member
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Calling Sky Captain! Calling Sky Captain!  Got yer ears on, good buddy, come on? |
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FatPappy Member
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Billyboy wrote:There's merit to not allowing unauthorized taping, but only if an official, unedited, version is published. Unedited! Exactly! |
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donw Member
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Who cares who is taping a public meeting. The only official recording is the valid one being completed by Diane. Just thought I would throw my 10 cents in this one. |
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Waytago Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Well spoken Cracker. I don't believe her either. I think she reads the NWO from cover to cover, and is one of the regular lurkers on these forums. Otherwise, why would she have put the comment about the "naysayers" in her letter stating she decided all on her own that the taxpayers should foot her vacation to Rocky Mount. Dwayne - there's still hope for you, you seem to be able to think on your own, just wish you'd join us here |
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Waytago Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Agreed |
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FatPappy Member
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donw wrote:Who cares who is taping a public meeting. The only official recording is the valid one being completed by Diane. Just thought I would throw my 10 cents in this one. You're prob'ly right, Don. It just made me nervous when I first heard about Dwayne tapin'. It sort of looks like a moot point anyway, from what Sandra dug up. I had visions o' somebody zoomin' in on private conversations amongst the spectators when they weren't aware they were bein' recorded an' such. Maybe the type o' abuse I'm thinkin' about is a separate issue from this anyway. Pappy can live with it either way, I reckon. Last edited on Feb 16th, 2006 10:58 pm by FatPappy |
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FatPappy Member
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Interesting; a voice analyzer lie detector for your PC... http://www.ukuug.org/newsletter/71/news@uk71-9.shtml For $150 or so you can now buy your own PC-based lie detector – a voice analyzer more accurate, according to its inventors, than the traditional polygraph. |
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FatPappy Member
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OK, one more an' I'll get away from the computer for awhile an' go have a healthy, nutritious supper. The whole problem here is not really technology. It's trust. My first reaction when I heard about Dwayne tapin' was, "What's he up to?" An' I really hated that bein' my first reaction. As long as Dwayne an' Becky stay behind their Great Wall o' Chiney, protected from us bloodthirsty savages, we'll never get to know 'em an' never get to trust 'em an' they'll never really be a part of the community they're claimin' to serve. The trouble with walls is, they keep some trouble out, but they also keep you in. Your mighty refuge suddenly becomes a prison. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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StewartM wrote: Sandra do you charge $200 a hour....Did you interview for the Summerfield job?? I did not apply for the job, Mike, because I didn't get an invitation from any of the council members. I didn't know you could interview without one.  Law Forum of Sandra Smith... I like the sound of that. $200 an hour -- I like that even more! Patti, can I have a raise? Oops, sorry Steve. I know I'm off topic, but I got excited. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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donw wrote: Who cares who is taping a public meeting. The only official recording is the valid one being completed by Diane. Just thought I would throw my 10 cents in this one.Don, You're exactly right. The town is the only one with the official recording. That is the only one that really matters. |
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StewartM Member
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S. Smith wrote: Law Forum of Sandra Smith... I like the sound of that.Patti said it would only be a 10 cent raise.....Never have found out what the Town was paying you.......thats town council Steve no off topic here.... Last edited on Feb 17th, 2006 02:58 am by StewartM |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: Oops, sorry Steve. I know I'm off topic, but I got excited.StewartM wrote: .....thats town council Steve no off topic here.... Not sure if y'all are ridin' the fence.......or stirrin' the pot.....or both. but sounds like you'd both wear an "off topic" like a badge of honor. |
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StewartM Member
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Steve are you recording this....Give me the OT sign...Don't want Sandra losing her raise.....you still in Mexico drinking the water.... |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I guess I just want to understand how some of you feel. Do you think it is a problem if a council member (or anybody else for that matter) is taping a council meeting for their own private use? I'm not talking about spying on anybody or taping private conversations. As far as I know, the taping is being done out in the open -- I believe other council members are probably aware of it and don't have a problem with it. This would allow a council member or citizen to listen to all or a portion of the meeting again later to review exactly what was said without having to bother the town clerk. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Another question -- would you have a problem if any other council member or citizen was doing it? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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StewartM wrote: Steve are you recording this....Give me the OT sign...Don't want Sandra losing her raise.....you still in Mexico drinking the water....  OK, OK...........if you insist, here's your badge of honor !!Yes, I'm still down here drinking the water, wearin' my sombrero during siesta time, and keepin' periodic tabs on y'all. Maybe you should start a new topic "Do you agree Sandra should get a raise?" |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: Do you think it is a problem if a council member (or anybody else for that matter) is taping a council meeting for their own private use? My humble opinion only, all are free to disagree in this open forum and I wont' get upset.............taping is not a problem. This is an open & public meeting, everyone knows it's being taped anyway, got Sandra there banging on her keyboard to put the whole mess in the NWO, this meeting ain't exactly a deep dark secret. Haven't seen anybody going up the mike saying "now what I'm about to say is confidential, so don't repeat it". Other opinions welcome. Last edited on Feb 17th, 2006 02:54 pm by Steve Adkins |
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bama80 Member
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I agree that anyone should be able to tape the session. People should remember however that this occurs and be leery of people's private recordings. You should know that editing/creativity can occur and therefore the recordings should be viewed as unofficial. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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S. Smith wrote: I guess I just want to understand how some of you feel. Do you think it is a problem if a council member (or anybody else for that matter) is taping a council meeting for their own private use? I'm not talking about spying on anybody or taping private conversations. As far as I know, the taping is being done out in the open -- I believe other council members are probably aware of it and don't have a problem with it. This would allow a council member or citizen to listen to all or a portion of the meeting again later to review exactly what was said without having to bother the town clerk. I don't have a problem at all with council members or citizens taping the public meetings for later reference. In fact Sandra, I don't know how you keep up with that stuff without taping it. Funny... I was at the last town council meeting and I kept thinking one of those Tannery people was clicking thier bic repeatedly and it was really getting on my nerves...Then I realized it was Sandra pecking away on the keyboard. Didn't bother me as much after that... Feel free to continue recording, Dwayne. |
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StewartM Member
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Open meetings no problem....But I do think they should let everyone know someone other than the town is taping. They need to watch out, some mikes may pickup private conversations....and I do have a problem with that. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy ain't got no problem with anybody, council or citizen, tapin' the open public meetin'. I share Mike's concerns about tapin' private conversations, an' I reckon that's what I was more concerned about. Maybe I'll take up Navajo Code Talkin' or play Johnny Rivers singin' "Secret Agent Man" when I need to say somethin' private. How about video cameras? Can I bring one o' them video cameras to the next meetin'? |
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S. Smith Moderator
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At the risk of sounding like a broken record... S. Smith wrote: Here's what I've been able to turn up on this subject so far.So smile, Pappy. You might be on candid camera. |
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StewartM Member
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Pappy will it be on America's Funniest video....well I guess the Town could use the $100,000 prize.... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Mike I agree with you. I would be much less bothered with this if Dwayne had said " Hey guys I am taping these meetings for these reasons...." I am also concerned though with all the new technology who is he taping that might just be having a private conversation? |
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bama80 Member
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This should apply to life in general. NOt much is private anymore. Especially when you are in a public place. |
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FatPappy Member
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StewartM wrote:Pappy will it be on America's Funniest video....well I guess the Town could use the $100,000 prize.... Hee hee! Maybe "America's Most Wanted" or "Jeopardy!" where the answer must be in the form of a question. I reckon we'll just all have to behave till we get outta range! |
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StewartM Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Mike I agree with you. I would be much less bothered with this if Dwayne had said " Hey guys I am taping these meetings for these reasons...." I am also concerned though with all the new technology who is he taping that might just be having a private conversation?I just find it strange that a town council person would want to tape a meeting that the Town was already taping. I'm just a old Summerfield boy who if you want to know something just ask your neighbor. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Mike - Amen. Just ask me and I will tell you. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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StewartM wrote: I just find it strange that a town council person would want to tape a meeting that the Town was already taping. We're all making the assumption there is a 2nd tape recorder going when we don't really know that to be a fact. I will contact Dwayne & ask him what technology he is using to copy the comments. It's possible he is using the official tape, and downloading commentary from it. |
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Bubba Guest
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Steve that's what I was thinking.....Is there a second taping or are we talking about the offical one? But I do think it is helpful to know what the rules are about this kind of thing |
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Waytago Member
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bama80 wrote: You should know that editing/creativity can occur I wouldn't mind editing some of BS & GD's comments with a whoopee cushion close to the microphone I feel an "Off Topic" coming Last edited on Feb 18th, 2006 09:38 pm by Waytago |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: StewartM wrote:I just find it strange that a town council person would want to tape a meeting that the Town was already taping. I don't believe so Steve. He has a little digital recorder. It's a nifty little gadget. WAYTAGO.... LOL... you won't get an off topic from me!! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Understood. You were not the only one to contact me with this info, so y'all are more on top of this than I am. Thanks |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: I will contact Dwayne & ask him what technology he is using to copy the comments. I emailed Dwayne & had a return phone call within 1 hour, which is commendable, so Thank You Dwayne. 1) Technology - yes, he has his own recorder, it simply records in a Microsoft compatible .mwa format. 2) Purpose for recording a meeting that is already being recorded - Dwayne said his original thoughts were actually geared toward other committee meetings where all documentation is being kept on paper. For minimal expense, all committee meetings could potentially be recorded. He mentioned the current technology mixer & microphones sometimes produce a garbled recording, there is better technology out there to produce a better recorded session, ie using lapel mikes & wireless transmitters. At this point, it's all been on his nickel, hasn't cost the town a dime. Comment - Dwayne did email me a copy of my comments to the Town Council, and I must say the quality was quite good. 3) Legal Basis for recordings - Sandra pretty well hit the nail on the head with her comment a few postings back with the statute. It's an open meeting, anybody can make a recording. |
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Waytago Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: 2) Purpose for recording a meeting that is already being recorded - Dwayne said his original thoughts were actually geared toward other committee meetings where all documentation is being kept on paper. For minimal expense, all committee meetings could potentially be recorded. He mentioned the current technology mixer & microphones sometimes produce a garbled recording, there is better technology out there to produce a better recorded session, ie using lapel mikes & wireless transmitters. At this point, it's all been on his nickel, hasn't cost the town a dime. I can't fault Dwayne for looking at better methods of communication. The communication systems the TC is currently using at TC meetings are pretty old school, and not the greatest. The idea of recording committee meetings to eliminate paper records sounds good too. Since Summerfield has some extra money laying around from not paving Strader Road, using some of it to upgrade the sound system might be worthy of thought. Some of my elderly neighbors say they don't attend the meetings because they can't hear alot of what's being said. If better sound systems would encourage more people to attend, a reasonable expenditure would be worth considering. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I agree about the new sound system. I have noticed that since the new seating arrangement was implemented it is MUCH easier to hear what's being said though. |
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FatPappy Member
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Waytago wrote:Some of my elderly neighbors say they don't attend the meetings because they can't hear alot of what's being said. I've heard people say they don't attend because they can hear what's bein' said. I'm also glad Dwayne's personal recordin' has all been on his nickel. That's where it should be. As long as he keeps his nickels separate from ever'body else's two cents, I'll be happy. |
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StewartM Member
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A lightweight easy to pack sound system would be nice...after every meeting the sound system has to be taken down, packed up and taken back to town hall..its a lot of wear and tear on the system.....be nice to have a building with a meeting room to have a good system set up. |
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Skiddles Member
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StewartM wrote: ...be nice to have a building with a meeting room to have a good system set up. Humm..... great idea Mike... a meeting room. I agree, Summerfield should have a place to hold it's meetings. I heard it's crowded for some committees in the Town Hall now. No need for grand convention centers here, just a place that is comfortable, and oh yeah, a good sound system too! Fine with me. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Just to verify my understanding of the Open Meetings Law, I contacted David Lawrence, a professor of Public Law and Government with the Institute of Government at UNC-Chapel Hill. David says the statute I quoted entitles anyone "to tape record an official meeting of a public body and make any use of the recording he or she wants to." |
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wepete Member
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Hi All Since a few days after the Super Bowl I've suffered from what I have been calling flu-monia. I highly recommend not getting it. Wash your hands and be careful who you kiss! Finally getting healthy enough to check back into Duke, (Never knew you could be too sick to go to the hospital) Anyway, something came to my fevered mind. Dwayne and Becky were criticized for going out of the area to attend a class and spending tax money needlessly. Know full well that I am not defending that choice but my question is: who actually approved that expense? As far as I remember individual council members do not have the authority to approve any expense (especially their own). Seems that unless the fees were approved by the full council in public meeting there is a problem. Do we need an audit of our internal controls? |
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Waytago Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Third, the Rocky Mount training tripwepete wrote: Dwayne and Becky were criticized for going out of the area to attend a class and spending tax money needlessly. Know full well that I am not defending that choice but my question is: who actually approved that expense? As far as I remember individual council members do not have the authority to approve any expense (especially their own). Seems that unless the fees were approved by the full council in public meeting there is a problem. Do we need an audit of our internal controls?Good question wepete. What is the training had been in Atlanta, or on California, would the two TC members have been able to decide to attend it there also. OK, let's assume it was isolated to NC, the same question remains, what are the Summerfield controls for travel?? |
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StewartM Member
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Come tonight to hear Dr. Sellers presentation of the park needs for Summerfield and let the council know that you support Parks in our Town. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy will be wearin' his trail walkin' boots! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Fat Pappy gather up the Missus and all the children also. Lets show our council we want parks. |
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Bubba Guest
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Saw survey thing-GREAT News! Left after that, was wanting to know if anyone stayed for Business from Council, agenda item 13. (ugh...13, I hope it didn't mean bad luck) Just couldn't stay and I always like to hear this. Anybody know? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Jim Sellers is my hero! (Sorry Pappy! Just for today.) The man told everyone in no uncertain terms that the community wants a park. Bet the CC's still didn't HEAR it though. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I thought they did an excellent job. They really did a great job fielding questions and explaining how the survey was performed and how to read the results. Kudos to them. |
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StewartM Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: Last night BS said she never voted against the park...Well right before Christmas she voted no to buying the playground Equipment....... |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Hairbrush wrote: I thought they did an excellent job. They really did a great job fielding questions and explaining how the survey was performed and how to read the results. Kudos to them.Agreed. Good Professional Presentation with factual answers. |
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FatPappy Member
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StewartM wrote:Cracker Jax wrote:Last night BS said she never voted against the park...Well right before Christmas she voted no to buying the playground Equipment....... Pappy's OK with that, Crackah! He's my hero too! I'm gonna eat barbecued chicken at the park in his honor. The CC keep actin' like nobody wants a park. If they would just talk to people outside their own little world, they might hear what people want. People want a park! Pappy knows it's hard to read trail signs sometimes, but what they heard last night was a blaze orange, neon lit, you-gotta-wear-shades-to-look-at-it trail sign! That's a trail sign you can sit in front of an' get a tan! That's a trail sign you can cook hot dogs on a stick in front of! That's a sign that'll barbecue a chicken! I reckon you gotta be purty blind or purty bold to say the people don't want a park after that. |
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Waytago Member
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StewartM wrote: Last night BS said she never voted against the park...Well right before Christmas she voted no to buying the playground Equipment....... Interesting.......BS was whining that all she is worried about is the maintenance on the park. Has never been defined. And if it had been defined, she's probably be worried about "is this maintenance budget accurate to the $0.0001"? Gave Michael high marks for actually assigning something to maintenance (properly) so she can keep harping on it. Wanted to assign on-going expenses for lights to park capital outlay (dumb move & inappropriate accounting). Good Job Michael !! This must be an example of the "hard questions" she said she planned to ask during her campaign. |
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Waytago Member
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FatPappy wrote: The CC keep actin' like nobody wants a park. If they would just talk to people outside their own little world, they might hear what people want. People want a park! Pappy knows it's hard to read trail signs sometimes, but what they heard last night was a blaze orange, neon lit, you-gotta-wear-shades-to-look-at-it trail sign! That's a trail sign you can sit in front of an' get a tan! That's a trail sign you can cook hot dogs on a stick in front of! That's a sign that'll barbecue a chicken!Well Said Pappy !! |
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Waytago Member
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Did anybody understand the point GD was trying to make with the lights? Michael had the lights down to a price that was rock bottom, ie $1,900 per year, GD proclaims the lights in Henson Farms cost $12,000. Never understood what Henson Farm lights had to do with lights around the community center. All she convinced me of was Michael had done too good of a job getting rock bottom pricing. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Wow waytago! I didn't know anybody actually listened to her anymore. I have never gotten any of her attempted "points". She's out there. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I thought GD comments about Henson Farms lights were just another excample of Big Smart City Woman trying to show us poor ignorant rednecks how stupid we were. She was trying to say that we didn't understand the cost of lighting, look at what Henson Farms is paying. Of course they have probably the most expensive lights you could buy at the time and scads of them. The Park is getting if not the cheapest close to it and 6. |
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FatPappy Member
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Copier paper, copier toner and personal assistance can add up, too. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: The Park is getting if not the cheapest close to it and 6.In Sycamore Ridge, we also have the $26.40 lights (7), they are about as cheap as you can go, still meet the ordinances of Summerfield, and still have some form of light coming out of them. Good Job Michael !!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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First let me say that BS looked really nice tonight. Good choice of outfits. (That was my Paula Abdul impression.. wasn't that nice??) I have noticed since BS was elected, when there is discussion, she hardly ever participates and NEVER makes a motion. It's almost like she doesn't want to go on record as being the one to make a motion IN CASE a citizen gets mad about it. The only time she ever makes a motion it seems is when she wants to UNDO something that the town has already done. Not a biggie, but it's something I'm gonna start watching..... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Let's move on to Dwayne... Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne... what were you thinking?????  There are a couple of basic facts of life that you were evidently not taught. You don't mess with the Tax man  and you don't mess with the SRA!!!!!  There were representatives from the Summerfield Recreation Association present at the TC meeting tonight and they had requested that the town actively pursue purchasing land for ballfields (or active recreation areas I think they called it). In addition, they asked for the town to donate $5,000.00 of our 8 MILLION dollars to help them make some repairs that are badly needed at the Summerfield School facilities. Town Administrator Michael Brandt strongly suggested that council do both (look for land and give SRA $$). Dwayne spoke up and said that he was getting ready to "earn his darts" for the evening. Ok.. this was a LONG and RAMBLING speech which I am taking the liberty of condensing.... He said that before SF was incorporated the SRA "found a way" without going to their neighbors and asking for money. He also preached the importance of teaching kids not to go to their neighbors and ask for money. Since when did OUR tax money become OUR NEIGHBOR'S tax money Dwayne???? Those parents approached council asking for some of the money that THEY paid in taxes be returned to support something they care about in our town. Needless to say, there were several incensed parents there tonight who went home and got out the dartboard. BTW.....When I left the meeting at 9:55, there were kids still playing ball on the ballfield at Summerfield School. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael Brandt (the other "pit bull" on the Armfield ballfield thing), stated that he had met with representatives from Armfield about the portion of land they promised SF that would be dedicated to ball parks. Armfield has stated that they are working out septic problems and will show a plan in April to council. They have stated that the ballfields will not be lighted so they will be daytime use only ballfields. We'll see if they try to throw in other restrictions.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OH! MOM wasn't there. I heard she broke her foot. I was gonna say something about it not fitting in her mouth, but I won't. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ One more thing... ya'll pay attention to the garbage issues around here. A presentation was made tonight about Solid Waste management which I did not hear until the end. She was talking about the White St. Landfill closing at the end of the fiscal year so all of our garbage will have to go to transfer stations therefore raising costs to transport garbage further, fuel costs, and they are not landfills owned by the county so the owners will mandate dumping costs.... Be sure to read the real scoop on this in Sandra's minutes. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Crackah- One correction BS did make a motion last night. This early in the morning I don't remember what it was but it was passed. I think Carolyn seconded it. I was distressed by Wayne's rambling last night about the SRA. I am sure my family has paid $5,000 in taxes to the town and I was going to volunteer to give my taxes. The first thing I think we have to look at is numbers. The Town has grown from probably 1,000 to over 8,000 in 30 years. I know when my kids graduated the graduating class was around 250. The SRA is using less ball fields then it was 30 years ago with 4 times or so as many children. The sheer wear and tear on things is so much greater plus they are already charging the children so much to play that is must be hard for parents with more than one child or one sport to afford just the basic fees with out the expense of trying to keep up the physical field and equipment its self. Plus if we are going to be a Town then we need to support projects that bring us together as a Town. If we aren't then lets just disband and go back to the county and let them or Greensboro decide what we need. What is the point of maintaining a gigantic fund balance but our children have to go out side the town to play ball if they play or we go to Greensboro to walk on trails or borrow books. |
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FatPappy Member
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Wow! Thanks fer the council update, y'all! BS and DC are a unusual duo. BS always seems to have somethin' or somebody in the crockpot on medium to high'. You just never know when she'll be ready to serve it up an' shove it down somebody's throat. BS definitely seems to be the brains of that outfit. Wonder what Dwayne keeps a-starin' at up on the ceilin'. That's a shame about Mom's foot. |
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Lacka Member
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Crackah, Scuba Jane is right, she did make a motion early on, don't you remember she used the word "everything" in the motion and then when Michael Brandt asked a question she snapped at him, looked over the top of her glasses and said something like, that is what I meant by everything. Jane shouldn't a motion be very specific, rather than vague, in order to keep confusion to a minium at a later date? The word everything seems dangerous to me. I would feel more comfortable it the motion was spelled out specifically. Come on guys, right after T-Ball practice today we are going out to earn some money. Those of you who are 5 can sell lemonade and those of you who are 6 can help wash cars if you are tall enough. Coaches pitch teams we need to collect your permission slips from your parents allowing you to use the lawn mowers and weed eaters. Blades are sharp, so try to be careful, you can't play ball if you loose a leg. We are going to learn some good lessons today. How to work hard for what you want. Mustang and Bronco, EOG's, Exams, and spelling tests are not important, you need to learn to work for your ballfields. Homework can come later. You guys are a little older, so get out there and make all the money that you can. Softball can go and head over to the park and clean those toilets. Oh wait, do we have toilets over there???? Who needs toilets? Maybe DC is confused and thinks his is really on the OR or SD TC, maybe it really is his neighbor's money. Look DC the tax money belongs to the people, it is the council's job to decide how to spend the money to best help the town. The future of this town is our children, we had better look at their future. Which means affordable housing, activities and teaching them that it is ok to ask for help if you need it. And it REALLY OK TO ASK FOR WHAT IS YOURS!!! Armfield ballfields will help a lot. You can fit a lot of hours of daylight into a summertime day. Jane the SRA at one time had a program in place so that if a child couldn't earn enough of their own money, as DC would have it, or their parents couldn't afford for them to play then SRA would step in. I remember when I divorced, whats his name, and was very low on funds I considered it. I could have qualified for it, but somehow it worked out. I did not apply, thinking that there may have been a parent that needed it worse than me. I am glad I had that option. Currently I have two kids that are playing ball and it is expensive!!! Not only for registration, but for their equipment and uniforms. Thanks for saying that you were going to offer your taxes Jane.  Maybe if we keep helping SRA out they will get some scuba lessons started for the older kids, like us. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Lacka wrote: Maybe if we keep helping SRA out they will get some scuba lessons started for the older kids, like us. I believe the dive team will be cleaning out the lake at the park next week, so you could practice there. Scuba Jane could teach the lessons. Last one in the water's a rotten egg, right Jane?! Wait, why don't we send the kids from the SRA in? Any scrap metal from old cars, appliances and whatever else is in there could be sold, and any money out of safes or cash registerers found down there could be kept. Just leave any bodies found in there -- they're not worth anything, unless maybe you find Jimmy Hoffa. (Then again, maybe any money found or made should be given back to the town to defray park costs. Then we could say no to the SRA and the town would make some money so we could have more than $8 Million in the bank.) |
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Lacka Member
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LOL Zip, you have made my day. I will meet you at the lake next week, I will be the one in the pink flippers. |
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FatPappy Member
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Lacka wrote:Maybe DC is confused and thinks his is really on the OR or SD TC, maybe it really is his neighbor's money. Look DC the tax money belongs to the people, it is the council's job to decide how to spend the money to best help the town. The future of this town is our children, we had better look at their future. Which means affordable housing, activities and teaching them that it is ok to ask for help if you need it. And it REALLY OK TO ASK FOR WHAT IS YOURS!!! Amen, Lacka! ¢rawford, ¢rawford, ¢rawford...you better stay on the porch, son. I don't know if'n you're ready to run with the pit bulls yet. |
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FatPappy Member
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Good one, Zippity! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Yes... Researched it... BS did make a motion to move forward with the comprehensive plan and "everything" that goes along with that...... meaning the disolution of the TC committee which is all she was after in the first place. I heard that she also made a motion to increase petty cash, but that must have been after I left so I can't comment on that. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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LOL Pappy!!!! Pit bulls... tee hee! I'm still miffed about DC's comments to the SRA When I was growing up and playing on the SF ballfield/gym, the concession stand was dilapidated, there were nowhere NEAR the fences that needed up keep and only one ball field for us to play on. To top that off, there was NEVER a working bathroom on the ball field or the gym..... Never in all my years do I remember anyone using one of those bathrooms. Evidently the SRA couldn't "find a way" to find the money back then after all..... We just crossed our legs I guess..... |
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zippitydoodah Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: One correction BS did make a motion last night. This early in the morning I don't remember what it was but it was passed. I was distressed by Wayne's rambling last night about the SRA. Jane - Why did BS make a motion early in the morning, and who is Wayne? Just teasing ya! I'd better be careful, or Jane might drown me in the lake instead of giving me scuba lessons. Then I would be of no use rasing money for either the town or the SRA. Lacka will be the one in the pink flippers. And I will be wearing a red carnation..... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Zippity- See how distressed I was? I forgot the boy's name!!! |
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FatPappy Member
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I just don't know how it's possible fer anybody to take ¢rawford seriously some days. By the way, fiscal responsibility had nuthin' to do with what he was sayin'. Nuthin'. Maybe we should just let the young'uns play ball in the road, since we're already payin' fer the roads. Somebody just yell "CAR!" when you see one a-comin'. That'll teach 'em to look out fer theyselves. Character an' reflex buildin'! Won't be no grass stains to warsh out, neither. Come to think on it, I'm gonna start keepin' a tally o' what I spend on my young'uns (if anything) an' present 'em with a bill when they's older. With interest. Why should I have to throw my money away on them? |
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FatPappy Member
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Not to change the subject, but the wind blew a big ol' cardboard refrigerator box into Pappy's yard. I was gonna borry a crayon from my neighbor to draw some windows on it an' call it the new municipal buildin', but I reckon I'll save up an' buy my own crayon since ¢ouncilman ¢rawford done awakened my ¢onscience . Hope the feller that lost that box don't come lookin' fer it. That's a valuable piece o' real estate! Last edited on Apr 5th, 2006 05:09 pm by FatPappy |
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Cracker Jax Member
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OH PAPPY! I know I've told ya this once or twice, but you are my HERO!!! I have tears in my eyes - and I don't know if it's from laughter or joy that we are finally gettin' our municipal building!! |
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Lacka Member
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I think it is from laughter Cracker. Wonder if a neighbor could buy a washer and dryer and maybe those boxes could float over to pappys too. We could flatten one of the boxes and have a big parking lot, and maybe a library. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy likes that parkin' lot an' library idea. I'm also plannin' to add a second story in Phase 2. Phase 2 will commence when I find out what them young'uns did with my roll o' duct tape. Also if'n I cut the door so it bends out instead o' in, we can get about a hunnert more people in thar. (Ain't we off topic yet?) |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Pappy's box + Lacka's 2 boxes + One more box to use as home base and you'd have a ballfield too!!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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In the absence of SMS, I will go out on a limb and make the executive decision that we are NOT off topic since the municipal building, the library and ball fields are all topics that the TOWN COUNCIL has discussed in the past and perhaps SHOULD discuss in the future. Besides... by the time he gets time to read this, we'll be back on topic again. |
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Lacka Member
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Pap, can you duct tape a windo or two and maybe a couple of those flower boxes just to add a little color? I like the idea of adding another box and making a ballfield, sounds good too. That was what we used to do when I was little, guess we weren't smart enough to earn our own money for a ballfield. Somebody could buy a dishwasher, i hear those boxes are quite nice. |
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Lacka Member
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Oh yeah and pap, I have some crayons and markers that I will let you use to draw the window and the flowers, I won't charge a thing to use them. They are my gift to you. I will drop them off with Patti if you don't mind picking them up. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Okay, I guess I will be the bad guy here and say... So am I to assume you guys think money should be given to the SRA? |
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FatPappy Member
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S. Smith wrote:So am I to assume you guys think money should be given to the SRA? I think them young'uns need ballfields an' we should figger a way to he'p 'em out. All options should be considered. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Yes. I do think the money should go to the SRA. I do not currently have a kid participating in SRA activities (Just like Dwayne) either. I just think if the town can't provide a service to our kids, they ought to consider helping out an organization who can provide that service. ....and we were NOT off topic. We were looking for building alternatives. (grumble grumble) |
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Steve Adkins Member
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FatPappy wrote: I just don't know how it's possible fer anybody to take ¢rawford seriously some days. By the way, fiscal responsibility had nuthin' to do with what he was sayin'. Nuthin'. Well, obviously I wasn't there and since we don't stream TC meetings over the internet (yet), don't know about DC's droning............but just sitting down here 2000 miles away wondering......after he got done running his mouth, what kept another TC member from going ahead and making the motion to give the SRA the money, and in all likelihood the motion would have passed 3 - 2 anyway? I should not speculate not having been there, but anybody have any comment? Agree with Pappy on the fiscal responsibility comment, tax dollars should go toward maintaining the infrastructure of the town & community services. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: Okay, I guess I will be the bad guy here and say...Yee Haa Sandra...........taking care of my boy Monty !!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Steve....If I am remembering correctly, DC's speech came AFTER The vote. I will verify this tomorrow and correct it if I am wrong.... Scuba J? Sandra??
I just read back and realized that I did not make it clear that the TC voted to give the SRA the money...BS voted for it. She knows about the IRS/SRA thing evidently.... Now all those motions and votes are running together in my head.... Sandra you edit this if I'm wrong... Last edited on Apr 6th, 2006 03:04 am by Cracker Jax |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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As I remember it Dwayne gave his speech about the American dream, working hard,fund balances, low property taxes, never taking hand outs etc then the vote was held. It was 5 to 1. I am proud that three of the council members are staying true to their vision. No grandstanding just plodding along trying to do the right thing. I know how hard it is. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Also Dwayne continuely brings up the fact he is sure there are people out there who could do a better job of leading and not spending tax payers money. We heard that speech about the park. He was sure there was private money and people who would do a better job now the SRA. My question to Dwayne, as a resident of this community for way more years then he has been alive, just what committees are you serving on? How many batches of brownies have you made, how much trash have you picked up, how many times have you been at the school for parties or just to let the teacher have a break, how many books have you read to classes, how many bricks did you clean? This Town is full of volunteers who are working very hard on the important things for our children and the community. For you to say oh let the SRA raise their own money is dismissive and offensive to all the people who volunteer hours and hours. We want our Town and our tax money to reflect our values and not just be a fund balance locked away in a vault for our politicians to count and hoard. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I still can't believe that DC has lived his whole life in Summerfield and thinks that the community is suddenly upset about the conditions of the ballfields. In his rambling he said something about neighbors being on different sides of the fence over the ballfields. I always thought the citizens were pretty much in consensus that the kids need ballfields and improved facilities. That was going on when I was using the ball fields and that is way more years then I would like to remember. I also remember our teams raising money in a variety of ways. I also thought that part of being a town was forming relationships and partnerships with organizations that were going to help your town be a better place to live. The SRA is a wonderful organization that has done amazing things with the funds they have been able to collect. Team sports is a wonderful thing for children to be involved in. It teaches them sportmanship, team work, and that hard work can pay off. Maybe DC and BS should have been involved in more team sports and things would go better on the council. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Well said Hairbrush. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jane is (one of) Pappy's Hero! |
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FatPappy Member
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Well said, Hairbrush! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Dwayne's speech actually came just before the vote. A motion had been made by Bob Williams and seconded by Dena Barnes to advertise for land to be used for athletic fields, to make an agreement with the SRA that they become the town's "recreation department" and that $5,000 be given to the SRA to make improvements needed now at the fields at Summerfield Elementary. The vote was 4-1 with all council members voting in favor except Dwayne. Cracker, What is the IRS/SRA thing? |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Anybody who knows anything about the SRA and the other youth athletic associations in the local towns would know that they are not in business to make a profit. They are there to provide sports activities for kids. Most of them have a mission statement saying that is their goal, and that they want to include as many kids as possible. These athletic associations operate on a shoestring budget. Even though they might do fundraisers, etc., they intentionally try to keep their costs low so they do not exclude anybody. They will NEVER have enough money to go out and buy land for ball fields. It appears to me that some council members have never understood the philosophy of being a team player (maybe they never played sports as a kid). I have heard it said that Dwayne Crawford was concerned about vandalism at the park. If kids are on the ball field, they don't have time to go out and vandalize things. Keeping kids busy and active is one of the best deterrents to crime and just generally getting into mischef. That and education, but we don't have much say-so about that. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:
Jane, you are right. I believe lots of people will be extremely offended by Dwayne's comments. But Dwayne has volunteered. He has volunteered to look into a new recording system for town meetings and he wants to make it possible to record all the commitee's meetings. I will definitely sleep better tonight, knowing my town's techno-geek needs are being taken care of....... Forget about the kids. They don't really matter............. Wonder what the next target will be in the name of saving "our" money????? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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S. Smith wrote: Cracker Jax wrote: Sorry... that was confusing... I meant Becky knows not to mess with the tax man and the SRA.... (from one of my earlier postings....) She's all about making the citizens happy you know... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Oh and thanks Sandra and Jane for clarifying when the speech vs. the vote happened. I really wasn't sure about that. Sandra.... You thought you had a story when I said IRS/SRA didn't ya???? |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I did. You know us reporters ... always sniffing around for a story! |
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Hairbrush Member
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Did anyone else get 2 voice clips from DC? They are clips about what he said about the SRA and also a clip about Summerfield not hiring illegal aliens. I am not sure how he got my email or why he put it out there. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Hairbrush wrote: Did anyone else get 2 voice clips from DC? They are clips about what he said about the SRA and also a clip about Summerfield not hiring illegal aliens. I am not sure how he got my email or why he put it out there.I received them as well, Hairbrush. They are the recordings of what Dwayne said at the council meeting on Tuesday night. It also says to forward to any town resident who is interested, so if anyone would like a copy, let me know. You can e-mail me at sandra@nwobserver.com. |
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Skiddles Member
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S. Smith wrote: Dwayne's speech actually came just before the vote. A motion had been made by Bob Williams and seconded by Dena Barnes to advertise for land to be used for athletic fields, to make an agreement with the SRA that they become the town's "recreation department" and that $5,000 be given to the SRA to make improvements needed now at the fields at Summerfield Elementary. The vote was 4-1 with all council members voting in favor except Dwayne. Thank you, thank you Bob Williams and Dena Barnes and the other 2 councilmen from a SRA family that seems to be sitting on the bench into the weeee hours of the night because of the lack of facilities in Summerfield. We need to support the SRA and our children! Children are our future .. it starts here! Dwanye you ask, "What are we teaching our children?" We believe that within sports lie valuable lessons and potentially powerful learning opportunities. Team work....Respect....Responsibilty.... Fair play....Perserverance.... Sportmanship...Commitment....Taking care of your body and much more. These are wonderful life lessons The ultimate goal of the out-of-school programs is to provide children with the opportunity to have fun, learn about themselves and others and develop into good people. Yes, I recieved the clips and just listened to them. If you are interested, Town Hall can email them to you. All I have to say is ... The SRA is providing the power of good role models. Their actions can have enormous impact on how our youth learn values such as respect, responsibility and teamwork. And how they can just as easily learn the opposite. Last edited on Apr 8th, 2006 01:33 pm by Skiddles |
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Hairbrush Member
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I am confused by what DC was trying to prove. Does he not want a sense of community? Shouldn't we help our neighbors and our neighborhoods? Where has the leadership failed when it comes to community sports? Without the SRA there would be no organized sports for our youth. I guess then the youth could just sit around and think of ways to vandalize our park. How about some drunken young folks sitting around the pond thinking about going skinny dipping. I also don't understand this great divide between the people who want ball fields and those who don't. It seems to be from the survey that they are pretty darn important to this community. Did DC's recorder not catch that during the presentation. I do see the neighbors upset because people park in their yards, block their driveways and the lights could be bothersome, but isn't that something the town should help out with so that there are other ballfields to use to help with some of that congestion. I should think we are being good neighbors by wanting to help out the SRA, but if I take DC at his word (as rambling as it is). I should just stay in my cute little house and mind my own business. I wonder if this live and let live applies when my neighbor hits upon hard times. Instead of rushing over to see if I can cook for them or watch the children or run some errands I should just stay in my same cute little house and let them work it out for themselves. |
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Skiddles Member
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Hairbrush wrote: I wonder if this live and let live applies when my neighbor hits upon hard times. Instead of rushing over to see if I can cook for them or watch the children or run some errands I should just stay in my same cute little house and let them work it out for themselves. Good point Hairbrush, I would certainly be there myself for my neighbors and friends if they needed me. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy don't wanna get away from the important ballfield subject, but I gotta say somethin' about the illegal alien thang. Some o' the points apply to the ballfield discussion as well. The illegal alien debate don't begin or end with laws, as far as I'm concerned. The issue is much broader an' the debate should be as well. We need to talk about what "we" as a people means. We need to talk about one group taking advantage of another's desperation then tossin' 'em aside when they become too many to keep 'em in their place. Laws are necessary but laws ain't substitutes fer decent human interaction and communication. Laws are many times no more than inadequate boundaries definin' the limits o' how far we can go without gettin' slapped. Boundaries that those with the resources can many times find ways to go around. Pappy don't believe the Town of Summerfield needs to set a example fer the world by making a resolution to not hire illegal aliens as Councilman ¢rawford suggests. Back when some folks were concerned about Summerfield bein' a laughin' stock because o' Concerned Citizen shennanigans during meetin's, we were told the world don't care what Summerfield does, or words to that effect. Cain't have it both ways. More importantly there is the very real danger of such a resolution givin' Summerfield a image as a elitist and even racist stronghold. I think we need do nothin' more than continue to abide by all existin' laws. If we decide we need such a resolution, then Pappy reckons we should also take a stand an' set a example for the world to follow by declarin' quite plainly that we as a town WILL NOT ROB ANY BANKS AT GUNPOINT. That makes as much sense to me. Last edited on Apr 8th, 2006 01:59 pm by FatPappy |
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FatPappy Member
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An' furthermore! What riles Pappy abpout ¢rawford's "speeches' is his familiar "us ag'in them" attitude. Like the ballfield bunch is somebody other than people who live in this town an' they ain't gettin' none o' OUR $8 million! Like I said before, what he's sayin' ain't really got nuthin' to do with fiscal responsibility. There's somethin' else here... |
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FatPappy Member
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Skiddles wrote:Good point Hairbrush, I would certainly be there myself for my neighbors and friends if they needed me. That's because y'all got some humanity, Skiddles an' Hairbrush, not to mention actual neighbors an' friends. |
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macca Member
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Unfortunately, "ELITIST" is a word bandied about regarding our whole area of the county sometimes.... and I really don't get it. ALMOST everyone I've ever met up here is very nice, and committed to our schools and to making our community a better place. HOWEVER, I agree with you, PAPPY! We don't need to go adding fuel to the flames of those who, for whatever reason, view people who live in our wonderful neck of the woods as ELITIST! PAPPY, you are such an inspiration!!! ♥♥♥ |
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FatPappy Member
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You're right, Macca. Pappy's heard that E word, too. I didn't mean to imply that I think we're elitist, 'cause I don't. They's all kinds o' good people out here, rich an' not so rich. Just didn't want to give anybody any o' that kind o' ammo. I'm also thinkin' o' the young'uns. Young'uns need positive principles to steer toward, not just negatives to steer clear of. Let's he'p 'em get some ballfields for one thang (positive) and let's not frame the illegal alien dilemma into a "us ag'in them" question (negative). We (the whole country) knowin'ly let it happen for many years, so let's not blame it all on the Mexicans, most of whom (whom? Pappy, I don't know you anymore...), most of whom seem to be decent hard workin' fambly-oriented people jus' tryin' to do better. Which is not to say we should just fling open the gate an' let ever'body in. We need law an' order, o' course. I'm jus' sayin', wherever they was born, whatever language they speak, they're still human bein's. Our young'uns need to see that side o' the deal. An' they need to see us seein' that side o' the deal. Pappy's glad he was born in what would later become America an' speaks more or less English. I jus' wish I'd been born rich instead o' so dang Fabio han'some. Hee hee hee! |
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FatPappy Member
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If Councilman ¢rawford really wants to help young'uns an' guide the world down a better trail, then how about a resolution demandin' Dr. Grier an' the school board put flesh an' blood teachers an' students ahead of numbers before too many more years an' young'uns go by. NWTeach had a good post over yonder in the NW School topic. Take a look. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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The Summerfield bunch has been pretty quiet since right after the last council meeting. Does that mean everything is bright and sunny over in Summerfield?? |
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wepete Member
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Yesterday, I received a call from a sitting council member who asked what I thought of the town spending tax money on buying landowner's development rights. The member stated the town administrator had said it was something we could spend money on that and everyone would agree with it. The survey taken in 2002? showed us there is nothing on which even a majority would agree to spend money. But, you just have to just love that "hunt for something to spend money on" attitude. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I would tend to look at buying development rights one of many ways that the Town could protect the environment, protect open space , scenic views and slow down pollution. I do think those are goals are most people in Summerfield would find attractive. Not sure short of codemning land that we will be able to accomplish those goals without somebody spending money. Since up to this point I have not noticed a whole lot of people coming to the Town saying let me Not develop my land then I expect my Town to be proactive. That's how I think a lot of people would look at it. |
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wepete Member
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Please don't take what I was saying as a negative against buying development rights...I was not intending to take a stand. Remember, I am moving and have paid my last tax to Guilford or Summerfield so I don't really have a dog in that fight. I'd point out that the value of most raw land in Summerfield is potential development so the town would have to pay what a developer would less a small residual value and that translates to a lot of cash per acre. It would take a heck of a lot of money to make a difference. But, without regard to the good or bad of the project, what caught my attention was the statement that it as something we can spend money on... Like we need something else... that's all I wanted folks to know. I'd have posted the same message if the idea was to buy me a new car. (well, maybe not) BTW Want to buy my place??? It will have great highway exposure. (grin) |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I was at Town Council last night but wondered if anybody else was there and what did they think about the way the zonings went? |
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Waytago Member
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Yes, I was there. Overall, it seems the TC did a good job of listening to constituents, and following the recommendations of the Zoning Board. I think one lawyer will think twice the next time before he calls folks "self righteous" and "indignant". Last night was one time that Stricklands abrasive manner actually was well placed in giving the lawyer a mild dressing down before the vote. |
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Waytago Member
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I was going to with hold this comment, but after some reflection decided not to. I am appalled at Dwayne Crawford, and his recent comments about illegal immigrants. Independent Contractors are held to certain expectations, #1 of which is to follow the law and local ordinances. There are any of a number of things a contractor can do that might violate the law, but our fine councilman Dwayne has decided that employing illegal immigrants is the #1 violation. It's OK to cheat on taxes, drive vehicles without insurance, do slip shod work, burn without permits, ad nauseum................but all that is OK as long as it's not with illegal immigrants. Then during the TC meeting on 5/2/06 he point blank asked an Armenian developer if he used illegal immigrants. Heck with the eco-system, heck with the local taxpayers opposing the re-zoning.....Dwayne just wants legal manpower. Dwayne, I hope you enjoy your ONE term in office, because with platforms like this one, I sincerely think that's all taxpayers are going to tolerate. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Well. I just feel so lost. I missed the TC meeting. Strickland went nose to nose with a lawyer? That pseudo-law degree must be paying off! I did hear the speech that Dwayne made last month about the illegal immigrants. I can't believe that Dwayne really expects the town of Summerfield to "police" the illegal immigrants. Next he'll be wanting to take on the gas crisis. The terrorism issue could use some attention too I'm thinking... Dwayne... that's NOT your job. |
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wepete Member
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oh no... can't believe I am about to do this but..... it kinda is (was) an employer's responsibility to check legal status. (I assume its still this way) Any new hire must complete an I-9 form (INS-9) which requires proof of citizenship (legal status) and identification. I always followed that law but as far as I know I was the only small businessman in compliance. I am not sure I ever met someone outside a large personnel office who even knew what an I-9 was. We were not required to authenticate documents but we were required to prove we saw them and record the ID numbers. Without taking a stand on this issue (and I could) even without the current legislation under consideration, undocumented workers are illegal and have, by definition, committed a crime. Employers who knowingly hire them are also guilty of crimes frequently including tax evasion. This is a very complicated issue and deserves real thought not knee jerk reaction or emotions. The decisions made here can effect folks lives, the business community and have some pretty heavy economic effects. It needs to be addressed accordingly. In the meantime Summerfield hs no business knowingly exposing its self to problems by employing illegals. but it really doesn't need to impose its self in policing private business either. Under the food for thought thang...I heard a fellow on the radio ask if you could imagine what would be done if Americans sneak into another country, demand they speak English, march in the street, change the national anthem, demand full government paid welfare, demand equality with citizens, work but not pay taxes, make up 5% of the population but occupy 19% of the jail cells... and so on |
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wepete Member
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Does anybody know what happened to Michael Brandt's request to the council for a building maintenance committee? Its been many months since he and I discussed the bricks disintegrating in the Town Hall front wall. He told me he was going to ask the council to make provisions for repairs. Now the bricks are almost completely gone and you can see under the building from the road. Can you say "building fall down and go boom"? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Wepete. I agree with you that Summerfield doesn't need to be policing the private businesses. Also, I was at council the night (a couple of months back) when Michael B. made the report about the repairs needed (including the bricks) at town hall. Excuse me for not knowing the town council lingo for what happened, but to the best of my memory they "directed" Brandt to price the repairs and report back to them. It hasn't been brought back up at subsequent meetings but I did not attend last Tuesday's meeting, so I am not sure if it was brought up or not. |
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FatPappy Member
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The illegal aliens ain't got a leg to stand on legally. They legally got no right to protest and make demands. My point is they's lots o' dirty hands in that deal on both sides o' the border an' it's been known fer years. Let's not heap all the blame on them. I agree we should comply with all laws. What I don't understand is why Crawford thinks the town ought to take a special stand on this issue out of all the other issues. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I think I read in the paper the other day that the largest group of illegal aliens are day workers. Is Dwayne going to start questioning every citizen? Illegal aliens are just that illegal. It is a problem and it needs to be handled but we need to look to our elected officials or soon to be elected officials to see how they stand on the issue. Officials that have the power to do something. Everyone should be following the laws on the books. It is not the job of the Council to police that unless they are thinking of hiring illegal aliens directly or don't have their I-9's in order. I was very, very embarrassed by the questioning of Mr. Bob Bates about illegal aliens. Just one more reason I know that I was right in not voting for DC (not that I every had any doubts). I think the council needs to look at how they are going to preserve open space. I didn't see any trails or large connecting areas of open space in the subdivision that passed on Tuesday (I could be wrong and I hope that I am). The council turned down the one subdivision on environmental issues but no plans on how to fix it. Maybe the town should buy up this environmental sensitive areas to protect. BS was all worry about the water in Summerfield and that piece of property would certainly help protect our water supply. It could go to a single family who wants to have a horse farm and then they will cut all the trees off it, pull up all the stumps, fence in the area including the wetlands and in a few years that wetland will be severely damaged. I heard mention of another piece of property that was logged, but it sounded like that was okay because it would be a horse farm. Livestock (including horses) are very hard on streams and wetlands. I also heard mention of the developers needing a groundwater study. BS asked this everytime. I thought the town of Summerfield did a groundwater study a few years back. If I am not mistaken Ralph Heath did the report and he is top in his field. Does she not have a copy of this report? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I agree that the illegal immigrant issue is going to have to be directed from Washington. Businesses are required to have I9's on every employee. Businesses are also required on immigrants to validate the social security number on a website but the federal government list is not valid so how can they expect the business owner to to know? I work with what I presume are illegal immigrants all the time in the workers comp arena and am concerned that the preception is that they are taking benefits with out giving back. Unless they are being paid under the table they do pay taxes just like everybody else. If they are injured on the job they have a right to workers comp if their eimployer has it just like legal citizens and why shouldn't they? They are doing the work. As to health care I think the number is over 50% of citizens in the US don't have health insurance so why would we expect illegal immigrants to be able to afford it? We American's want cheap goods. If the jobs weren't here then the illegal immigrants would not come. It is a massive problem and I think Summerfield's role should be to hire legitimate companies to do the work and that's it. |
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wepete Member
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Hairbrush wrote: I also heard mention of the developers needing a groundwater study. BS asked this everytime. I thought the town of Summerfield did a groundwater study a few years back. If I am not mistaken Ralph Heath did the report and he is top in his field. Does she not have a copy of this report?Nope she would not because that report does not exist. The US Geographical (Geological) Survey (USGS) did a very exhaustive county-wide study. Mr. Heath was hired to oppose the report by the same folks who opposed Summerfield using the study as a reason to increase average lot size. If he had been in favor of it he would not have been paid. Heath's logic was faulty as he proposed the water cycle was practically a closed system due to septic tank use in Summerfield. He forgot about stream run out and such. But I understand he got paid. BTW His report was about 2 or 4 pages long. The USGS was printed like a text book book in 2 column text some 1/2 inch thick and very professional relying on a tremendous amount of data they compiled and tested. Heath used their findings and research. |
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wepete Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: I work with what I presume are illegal immigrants all the time in the workers comp arena and am concerned that the preception is that they are taking benefits with out giving back. Unless they are being paid under the table they do pay taxes just like everybody else. How can they do that without a social security number? On May 2nd I went into the Randolph County telephone office to get service for our new house. The lady gave me a paper that was written half in Spanish and half in English. I had to ask if I had come in the day before on No Immigrate Day if they would have given me one without the Spanish. (Yep Jane, still stir'n) Oh yeah... should the town council meetings be in spansh? (had to get on topc) Last edited on May 4th, 2006 05:01 pm by wepete |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Now language is an entirely different topic as I see it. But here again we have a country that does not declare a national language so again we citizens are to a large extent responsible for the problem. I think people should be expected to learn the language of the country they live in!! |
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jbeeson Member
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wepete, I must inform you that the study actually does exist. The study was completed by Mr. Ralph Heath who, according to the Town, spent 20 hours of his own time researching groundwater data gathered by the USGS for the town of Summerfield only to learn that the town had never asked him to perform the evaluation. How Ralph got the Phone # for the Town's representative, did the study by mistake, contacted the Town for a date to present his findings by mistake, and expected compensation, by mistake, is still a mystery! I attempted to present the paper at a town council meeting for a local developer, who compensated Mr. Heath after he read his findings. I was told to sit down, my time had run out. The letter was still addressed to the Town of Summerfield and was dated prior to that developer ever attempting to rezone property. If you check the records you will find that another hydrologist by the name of Dave Evans submitted a report with similar conclusions. Dave was a hydrologist at NC State. A copy of that report should still exist in that subdivision application, somewhere. Your mention of Mr. Heath's knowledge, or lack there of, of ground water and his misunderstanding of the water cycle is most interesting. I'm sure that you're not claiming to be a hydrologist! Certainly not. Am I to understand that you believe that by being paid Mr. Health and Dr. Evans came to incorrect conclusions? As to the rezoning of a tract of land you must understand, professionally we make no more or less depending on results. Licensed professionals can and will be taken to task and are risking their reputation and very livelihood if they misrepresent the interpretation of data or allow financial compensation to influence their findings. I would hope the validity of the findings rested more on the facts presented than on the width of the text column or thickness of the binding. Bye the way, the main disagreement with the USGS report was with the equations made in the USGS report by Dr. Charles Daniels where he concludes that NO water from any septic system ever reenters any well! He actually contradicts himself in his own text stating that a percentage of that water is reintroduced to wells, but he never acknowledges this or gives it any weight in the equations. |
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FatPappy Member
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wepete wrote:Nope she would not because that report does not exist. Pappy's rale confused. Up yonder you say the report does not exist, then down yonder you give a description of it. What happened in-between? BTW His report was about 2 or 4 pages long. ... Heath used their findings and research. |
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Waytago Member
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FatPappy wrote: I agree we should comply with all laws. What I don't understand is why Crawford thinks the town ought to take a special stand on this issue out of all the other issues. Amen Pappy Citizens should obey ALL laws. And it does not fall on the Town of Summerfield to police businesses on compliance. Council members, you have more important things on your plate than this subject, stick to business !!! |
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wepete Member
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Should I feel personally attacked now?? Wow! Do I stand here confused but I think its been that way since I first heard "USGS Groundwater Report". First I was trying to say in my memory Heath had not done a formal start from scratch water study but had given a short paper saying the USGS report was wrong. If that's all you got out of years of discussion Pappy ...well sorry for you.. geeze Second, my point Jane, was not that being paid influenced his report... just that he would not have anything to sell if he agreed with the USGS report. Duh! I did not mention the fellow from state who memory recalls was an assistant professor who reached a similar conclusion with Heath and was paid by the same folks who paid Heath. I'd bet it would not be hard to find an ASSISTANT professor to say just about anything. I never saw his qualifications as anywhere close to the USGS folk I do remember something about Heath doing his own report and trying to bill the town. I seem to remember completely discounting his effort because of the way he went about it. Obviously if we used it we might have been required to pay for it. The funny thing here is It was the developers that wanted small lots and thick density in Summerfield who fought the hardest against Summerfield using the USGS report. But it was Jimmy Beeson in the employment of Paul Miliam who first called it to the towns attention (at least mine). Then some folk who were highly supportive of the large lot movement and spoke against most new subdivision requests who got on the Heath bandwagon and attacked the USGS report most vocally. Its a like when the council was against DC's petition for how the mayor was elected then spending so much time arguing with him when he publicly withdrew his support. Again... geeze I never understood why folks who said they wanted to protect our ground water were so quick to discount the opinions of TWO highly respected folk who had absolutely no interest one way or the other and provided us with the most conservative report and the only research into runoff, absorption etc. When it comes to expects I remember the hydrologists for the quarry folk wanting to build here stating the dewater zone was 45 degree cone shaped. In Mebane they testified it was vertical. I remember McCraken stating rock quarries did not effect property values. In the finance industry we called such reports MAI... Made As Instructed ... not saying it happened here... just that it happens so often it has a name. All I really care about now is I worked very hard for a number of years doing everything I could to do my own research, fully understand ALL the reports, and protect our groundwater for the betterment of our community. Its a shame most of the whiners limited their involvement to just whining and never really took the reports apart and understood them. As I type this the movers are packing my stuff... ya'll treat YOUR groundwater however you want. Its no longer my fight. But I wonder if the folks so against the USGS are the same folk pushing central water and all that comes with it. |
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FatPappy Member
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No personal attack intended from me, we. The thread of your narratives is very hard to follow, especially fer some o' the people readin' who may not have been involved in years of discussion. Just hoped I could get you to clarify. |
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wepete Member
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Thanks for the follow up Pap. I think I may owe Jane a mea culpa. I thought that was her then I saw it was Mr Jim... Hi Jim! Good to read your voice after all this time. Do you remember my comment when you told us about the USGS report? I did not remember you are a hydrologist. But I am getting old! I have been racking my brain to figure out that mystery you mentioned. My best guess is he wrote it and then tried to sell it. (guess I should have said sold it) I am pretty sure the town never voted to authorized that study. There would be a public record if we did. If he proceeded without payment authorized, I have to assume it was speculative work. I can assure you I know of no conspiracy to get him to waste his time or provide a free report. Last edited on May 5th, 2006 07:35 pm by wepete |
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jbeeson Member
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We, Good luck with the move. I don't think that you fully understand the things that any professional scientist should hold dear. The issue for the scientist was not the density of Summerfield at the time, it was that the scientific facts were being distorted. The density of Summerfield should be decided by the people, or their representatives, of Summerfield. That decision should be based on FACT! I and others take exception when distorted science is represented as FACT. I hope that I have kept my personal feelings in check while I arrive at scientific conclusions. I'm sure that in this case confusion did run and still does run high. I can only point you to piles of research conducted by USGS, East Carolina, NC STATE and Duke. Although some of the research was conducted by "assistant professors". There is also a short course offered by the NC extension service, if any body would like to learn more on the subject of groundwater hydrology. I will tell you that one of the instructors is Mr. Heath! http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/swetc/hydro/2006/hydro06.htm |
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wepete Member
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JB Thanks for the good thoughts. I understand what you are saying. It frustrated me as a council member /mayor with my community's best interest in mind that I was not able to ever get a to get an absolute answer. I know what is one scientist's fact is another's fiction. For example, some say global warming is here others do not agree. Another is the shape of the dewatering cone like I already mentioned. Did you hear... at least for this week aspertine no longer causes cancer? I agree that there is a lot of meaningful research by Assistant professors... that is one way to become full professor and get tenure,,, gotta be published you know. I mean absolutely no disrespect, I have taken classes at the community college level, undergraduate and post graduate level and even in the corporate environment. I even taught private seminars and at the community college. That one is a teacher only means they were able to get a job... this year. That in itself does not mean they are right or wrong. Just that you can probably find an AP willing to argue either side of a discussion. I would be wrong to accept someones report simply because they teach... at any level.... ag extension or Harvard I think the point is.. not to take any report on face value and just accept the conclusions.... you gotta get into it, understand the motivation, understand the math understand the basis, understand the research and the methods... understand they can, and frequently, draw an incorrect conclusions. I think the often quoted last part of the USGS report says a lot... nobody actually knows the answer... and with that caveat, why not err on the conservative side? (Unless the goal is to maximize utilization) |
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Cracker Jax Member
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wepete wrote: Does anybody know what happened to Michael Brandt's request to the council for a building maintenance committee? Its been many months since he and I discussed the bricks disintegrating in the Town Hall front wall. He told me he was going to ask the council to make provisions for repairs. Now the bricks are almost completely gone and you can see under the building from the road. Can you say "building fall down and go boom"? Wepete... I saw a masonry truck up at Town Hall this morning and a man appeared to be "checking out" the bricks on the sides of the building.... Perhaps things are moving along now and they'll get it fixed soon. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Whew! Dust bunnies in here! I was just getting around to perusing my May 18 issue of the 'other' paper... the one with a Rhino on it... and I noticed on page 10 that "Mom" has been harrassing the Greensboro City Council. As you might recall, we reported that she had broken her foot or ankle, however the actual details were fuzzy. She's also been notably absent from the SF town council meetings since her unfortunate accident. Well, according to this paper, she tripped over a food cart at the Greensboro Coliseum and broke her ankle and is having trouble walking properly. She has presented to the city council a long list of improvements that she would like to see at the Coliseum including the type of ice cream she'd like for them to sell. Seems Mayor Holliday had trouble getting her to sit down and shut up when her time was up. Imagine that. |
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Waytago Member
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The TC meeting last Wednesday was not well attended, but still had some interesting moments: BS now wants the Finance Officer to provide an "up to date" listing of checks written between the time of the financial report cutoff date, and the TC meeting. Stated she "was reponsible for the spending of taxpayer money, and wanted to know where the money was going". So now we may wind up paying the Finance Officer more money to publish information nobody is interested in but BS. Waste !!! Good job Dena on letting it be known she didn't want anymore trees wasted to produce information that would be presented the following month. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so. Bill Hill gave a short presentation on the implications of the "illegal immigrants" resolution that DC can't live without. Bottom line, the town can adopt the resolution, but has no enforcement mechanism. Mike Brandt let it be known he didn't want to become an enforcement officer (good job Mike !!). George Holub advised this resolution could very possibly mean higher prices, ie he related a case of planting flowers where $2,800 was spent, obviously the labor done by some portion of Illegal Immigrants. A similar job with legal Americans would have been more like $6,000. BS stated "that (the cost impact) is not good enough for her". So here is another case where BS & DC are pushing agenda's that might cost the taxpayers more money. The towns "enforcement mechanism" is to sign a sheet of paper stating that contractor doesn't employ illegal aliens (are they signing under oath???). It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS & DC say so. BS gave Mike Brandt a mild rebuke for using a separate printer & bulk mailer to send out the town newsletter.......took a few days more, but saved the town money. BS said it would have been better to get the information out sooner, even if it cost a few more bucks. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so. BS also advised there was some contractor Summerfield has been dealing with that hasn't paid their state fees in some lengthy period of time. OK, shame on the contractor, but why is that the Town's business? Does Summerfield audit contractors books? If BS & DC want to put all these safeguards in place for the towns contractors, then Summerfield needs to have, at a minimum, 1) a contractors policy book or more practically 2) a full time purchasing executive to administer all these policies. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS & DC say so. BS also asked Bill Hill if she could "listen to neighbors (residents) and tell developers "I don't want to hear from you until the TC meeting?" " Hill said yes, BS appeared delighted. Two alternative ABC reps were presented. BS made a motion to appoint one, DC 2nd'd, motion failed 2 - 3. Carol Collins made motion to appoint the other, BS then stated this candidate resigned some other board due to health reasons, and that was her only reservation. The lady was obviously highly offended, and stated out loud "my health is fine, thank you for the concern". Motion passed 3 - 2. Would have been easy to conclude BS was trying to plant a CC on the ABC board?? Mike Brandt stated when he submits the budget on June 2, it becomes the TC budget, not his. BS stated she had enough time to change it after June 2. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS & DC say so. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Thanks for the update Cracker and Waytago. I also hear we taxpayers are getting to pay for the endless copying to disks of all the meetings held in Summerfield for DC, who is too busy to do it himself, so you and I are paying for the Town Clerk to do it. It is leterally hours and hours of tapes being converted. Don't you sleep better at night knowing how frugally the cc's are with our tax money? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Waytago wrote: BS gave Mike Brandt a mild rebuke for using a separate printer & bulk mailer to send out the town newsletter.......took a few days more, but saved the town money. BS said it would have been better to get the information out sooner, even if it cost a few more bucks. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so. Waytago.... WOW. The entire post was beautifully stated. Thank you so much for the update. I was unable to attend that meeting. About the newsletter... I did want to add that there was a VOLUNTEER committee in place to put the newsletter out and BS was dead set against any volunteers putting together a newsletter even though anything sent out would have to be approved by council. Instead, Michael Brandt was charged with putting out the newsletter by himself. As a result he was forced to do this on taxpayer time and other things that needed his attention (for example, the Brittan Bldg. repairs) fell to the wayside so the newsletter could get out by Founder's Day. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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And another thing......I wonder what BS has against volunteers?? I realize she doesn't EVER volunteer and doesn't even come out into the community for various events (Tree Lighting, Founder's Day), but why would she have a problem with others volunteering? She was positively gleeful when the town core committee was put on hiatus, balked at the mention of some other committee (Conservation?) coming off of hiatus and then the newsletter committee thing. She didn't even show up for the volunteer appreciation celebration that the town council hosted for volunteers. Seems to me like she'd be thrilled with volunteers since they work for free- her being the "taxpayer's councilwoman" and all...... Do you think she wants to do away with all volunteers so we won't be privy to her backstage shenanigans? |
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StewartM Member
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Thanks Waytago and Cracker for the updates, I had to work late Wednesday night and was out of town on business since last Friday, this helps me catch up. Volunteers are a very important part of our town. Most of the Town Council knows this, The rest of them better wake up. If BS wants a update on every check when its written (doesn't want to wait for the monthly report), then she can stop by town hall every day and look at the checkbook. She needs to quit wasting staffs time and the towns materials for her daily reports. It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so. |
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FatPappy Member
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Thanks Way and Crackah! Pappy's been too busy to keep up lately. This is an invaluable service. I think we should double your usual fee. Maybe we should call all volunteers "The Taxpayer's Volunteers." That might make the right connection in her brain. What's next? I wouldn't be surprised to one day hear her say to her town clerk, "Call down to the barn an' have the boy bring my horse around." It's OK to waste taxpayer money when BS says so. |
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wepete Member
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How frustrating to read council members are putting staff through a wringer. There is no room for each member to make independent demands! What if one member wants something directly opposite to another members desire? I sure hope Mark will fix this one in a hurry. It is very important that the council members understand (and the voters demand) that the council members obey town policy. Unless its been changed, town policy (I know, I wrote this one) was employees work for the mayor under the direction of the council (not individual members) When Mr. Brandt was hired he became "supervisor." The chain of command became bottom up through the manager to the mayor with council blessing. It is not bottom up to each and every council member independently! I understand staffs desire to maintain a relationship with each council member who can vote their continued employment BUT a single council member saying "I WANT....." should be told by the mayor (and forced by the public) that the request must be in the form of a motion during a public meeting and only during a public meeting. Five equal bosses is not fair to staff or the voters. |
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FatPappy Member
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Frustratin' is right, wepete. There's plenty o' legitimate bidness to keep the council busy. It's a shame all these little dramas that same bunch keeps a-stirrin' up continues to cause so much wasted time, energy, and, holy mackeral, taxpayer money! Reminds me o' ol' Senator Sam Ervin back in the Watergate days. He said concernin' gettin' sidetracked from the main objective, "It would be like stoppin' to shoot rabbits when you set out to hunt bears." (It sounded better when he said it.) Be nice to see some teamwork outta them two. They' ain't been very effective so far. They seem to like to do their tallyin' in negative numbers. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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There was some positive that came out of the TC meeting (I think) Unfortunately I am not familiar enough with all the background to tell the whole story here, but will tell what I understood, and others can maybe fill in the gaps. Forgive the omissions and the vagueness. Mike Brandt made a presentation with blueprints about a property that could be a "maybe" sports field, couple ballfields, couple soccer fields. Unfortunately the land use was limited due to a septic field. Nice try, but around 20 - 25% of the land would not be usable, adequate parking space questionable, the SRA President also was concerned the fields would be unlighted, so it would only be a "daytime" sports facility, wouldn't really solve the space constraints of today. Someone made a suggestion (George Holub?) there was a larger chunk of land that could be "horse traded" to get land, ball fields, adequate space, etc, instead of this small piece of land. (I'm really embarrassed I cannot explain this better). Mike Brandt was empowered to discuss this concept further with appropriate persons. It sounded like a win win situation if it works out. |
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wepete Member
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Waytago wrote: Bill Hill gave a short presentation on the implications of the "illegal immigrants" resolution that DC can't live without. ... George Holub advised this resolution could very possibly mean higher prices, ie he related a case of planting flowers where $2,800 was spent, obviously the labor done by some portion of Illegal Immigrants. A similar job with legal Americans would have been more like $6,000. I have to question the accuracy of the numbers but for the sake of argument lets say they are accurate and planting pansies costs $2,800 with illegal labor and $6,000 with legal labor. That is $3,200 that would have gone into the pocket or to the benefit of the workers. That is money that would have been used to pay market wages, social security, unemployment taxes and workman's compensation premiums. At that price difference you have to know something is wrong or illegal. What is actually being defended here? Use illegal labor to save money??? So to save a buck, the town should knowingly aid and employ an ongoing conspiracy to violate the minimum wage law, North Carolina Tax Law, Federal Tax Law, workman's compensation law, federal immigration law and do it all on the backs of some folk living in poverty who can not object without fear of deportation????? And Harry Reid says English as a national language is racist!!!!! Working out the numbers I found that comes at a savings of about 40 cents per Summerfield resident. Just how cheaply will the town sell its integrity? Do we now teach our children its ok to steal from Wal-Mart to save a buck or two? (I really want to curse here but won't so I can obey the rules!!!!!) *!@#%&* $^%(*&@! If we can not afford to act legally with honesty and integrity maybe we should wait to next year to plant the darn pansies Last edited on May 24th, 2006 01:50 pm by wepete |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree wholeheartedly, wepete. The town should never knowingly engage in illegal activities. Period. But, I also have to wonder if the resolution against illegal aliens wasn't really aimed at stopping or slowing progress on the park. Was construction on the so-called "political park" (an ignorant and offensive term, by the way) the real "offending act" the resolution was meant to stop? Was somebody using illlegal aliens to do some dirty work and not even paying them? I wonder. |
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Waytago Member
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wepete wrote:
I think you're going off on a tangent. The point was......there will be a cost impact to narrow the contractor base. Nobody is supporting violation of law. What is being defended here is, to what degree does Summerfield micro-manage their contractors with our extensive town staff & purchasing executives? Summerfield has minimal purchasing policies, illegal immigrants is the flavor of the week, BS is already starting to grease the skids for next weeks flavor with "this contractor hasn't paid their state fees". Since she "used to work for a lawyer", I'm sure there will be 50 more flavors to fill in the rest of the year. What a waste of TC resources. A town would normally get 3 competitive bids for a job, and assume the three responsible contractors have their noses clean, since they're going to another sheet of paper stating so. And we're going to trust them to tell the truth. You mention Walmart in your comments.....so I'll ask WHY do you shop at Walmart (because they're cheap !!), WHERE does Walmart source a huge portion of their products from (offshore from China & Malaysia sweatshops that are paying less than illegal immigrants are paid in USA) ??? Why did Walmart abandon their "made in America by Americans" slogan?? Are you willing to pay double price at Walmart for products made in America (you can answer)?? Bad comparison. The point is.....we can draw these lines in the sand, but there will be a cost impact, so get ready. If we don't mind a cost impact, then all is well. Last edited on May 24th, 2006 03:09 pm by Waytago |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Walmart gets into another issue. ( I don't shop Walmart. I don't support Walmart) and that is the largest company in the richest country not only buys its goods off shore but does not provied affordable health care for 90% of its workers. To my knowledge unless the illegals are being paid under the table they are paying taxes, social security etc which because they are illegal they can never collect. So where is the drain on our economy? 41% of Americans do not have health care so what are a few illegals going to do to the system? If in fact as was published recently homeowners are the greatest employers of illegals then the enemy is us not the contractors. I feel that the Town has done everything required of it legally by local, state and federal laws and that is all we can and should do. We can not be the police for the rest of the country. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Alot of good comments, but the above string of Walmart & China comments are watering down the original topic, which we need to get back to. Pls keep focused on topics related to Summerfield and the Town Council. It should give everyone plenty to talk about. Thanks SMS Last edited on May 27th, 2006 12:48 am by Steve Adkins |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Oops! Sorry Super Steve. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Jane, that wasn't directed at you (only), it was referring to comments made by Bill, WTG, and yourself during the course of the day. None of the comments were bad, I'm not going to drag out the forum policy guidelines, the conversation was just starting to wander too much. Blog onward............. Last edited on May 25th, 2006 03:17 am by Steve Adkins |
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wepete Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Jane, that wasn't directed at you (only), it was referring to comments made by Bill, WTG, and yourself during the course of the day. None of the comments were bad, I'm not going to drag out the forum policy guidelines, the conversation was just starting to wander too much. WTG's original comment indicated it was ok to employ illegals because doing so would save the town money and a resolution attempting to limit such practices was not in the towns best interests. That would seem to be directly on topic. The portion of my response regarding wal-mart was an extreme reference to illustrate that stealing from anyone, big or small, is wrong and is it is wrong even if we do it as a town because it makes good policy to save a few bucks. I wasn't about Wal-Mart being good or bad. If it makes folks feel better they could read it to say "Bud & Marys Tea Shoppe" (whatever) instead. WTG continued to use the Wal-mart example and made some incorrect assumptions and obviously misinterpreted my comment but did make some good points regarding pricing. I rarely defend Becky but I was speaking directly towards the suggestion she is wrong because she is ok with spending more money to do things legally. So how did my message get branded off topic? Steve, if it isn't on topic what exactly would you have us discuss in the Town Council forum and if we can not use text book examples how should we do it? Last edited on May 26th, 2006 11:27 am by wepete |
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Steve Adkins Member
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wepete wrote: The portion of my response regarding wal-mart was an extreme reference to illustrate that stealing from anyone, big or small,
OK, Monty dropped his off topic sign above. As Bill states, the comparison to WalMart was an extreme example, I'll assume the other comments were on the fringe also. Participants please strive to tie any comparisons you make back to the Summerfield situation. You know what you are trying to say, but it may not be immediately obvious to other readers. Thanks.....and blog onward |
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Skiddles Member
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Thanks everyone for the updates. ”Not enough time”: Frankly, if I didn’t have the time to gather the necessary paperwork or information that I needed to make sound decisions to do my job, then I would have to review, or my boss would do it for me, why I was doing this job in the first place. Plus, if I didn’t “have the time” to do my tasks, I would not feel comfortable or feel it was appropriate to ask others, over and over again, to take their time out of their paying job for me. Listen, a nice person will lend a hand to help, but to be asked again and again, then to have it bitten is obviously too much. I agree with you wepete, it is not fair to our town’s employees to have 5 different bosses. This is not the correct chain of command. I also hope that Mayor Brown will look into this matter. FYI: I have seen the paperwork piled high… 3 plus inches which equals: time, supplies and money. I hope this councilman could find a few minutes to go to town hall, pull up a chair and do the research and copy what she needs on her own dime and time... I would. Volunteers: Volunteers are extremely important to our town. If we didn't have volunteers we wouldn't have a town. Volunteers started Summerfield (thank you Bill and others) and volunteers continue to make up most of our town's decision making body. I believe our elected councilmen (volunteers themselves) should support and applaud the many caring and good volunteers that work hard to do a good job for their town. It is confusing to me, why a councilman would choose not to or couldn’t find the time to come to at least one of these town’s events; the Volunteer Dinner, the Tree Lighting or Founder's Day. These events are terrific occasions for a councilman to talk and interact with the citizens they represent. It makes me wonder, do they really care about the people and what they might want to share with them? Illegals: Now about the illegals, first of all, what contractor in their right mind admits to having illegals on their work staff? It’s illegal … jeez! Two, who in the town is going to investigate and look at every workers documentation or do we… oops, need to happen into a situation to find out if an illegal is employed by bidding or contracted company? Thirdly, who is going to prove, enforce and then turn in these companies and people? Forth: Jane is correct; most of the people here illegally are employed in homes. I believe the thought is admirable, BUT COME ON, let’s let the Federal government take care of this one! Why spend the time and energy on this issue when we have current important issues concerning Summerfield at hand. Last edited on May 28th, 2006 02:54 am by Skiddles |
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FatPappy Member
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Yee haw, Skiddles! Volunteers are the backbone o' this town! Like you said, we wouldn't even have a town. Pappy gets the impression BS is too good to associate with us peasants. She don't serve us, we serve her. How she must suffer to be in such close proximity with the rabble durin' council meetin's. Her an' DC appear to have their own agenda an' their own constituancy. They go about their own bidness an' only recognize the rest o' Summerfield when it gets in their way or if it pleases them to have a peasant from its ranks attend them. They sorta got their own volunteer force, too, but I heard it hurt its foot an' ain't back up to full speed yet. They make a big fuss about ever'body else's accountability, but where is their accountability? Who do they answer to? |
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wepete Member
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deleted Last edited on May 30th, 2006 01:19 pm by wepete |
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Skiddles Member
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Bill I do like, "flame ideas, not people." Hope you don't mind me repeating this part of your message. |
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wepete Member
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Actually, I deleted that message. You must have seen it while I was changing my mind about it. But of course I do not mind. Its not mine anyway, its one of the posted forum rules. |
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FatPappy Member
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And here I was just about to congratulate you on spellin' "wringer" right, wepete. I was talkin' about my perception of their actions as councilpeople. The foot thang was probably too much, though. I just wish BS an' DC would somehow have more dialogue with ALL the people. Their aloofness, or perceived aloofness, is their defensive strength but it's also their weakness. I would like to see more reachin' out from them. If people understood the reasonin' behind some of their decisions an' statements, maybe the sinister aura some people see around them might start glowin' a differ'nt color. Or maybe not, but we as townspeople deserve better communication from our representatives. A far as I'm concerned, that's as much a part o' the job as gettin' somebody to copy a bunch o' papers. |
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Skiddles Member
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FatPappy wrote: And here I was just about to congratulate you on spellin' "wringer" right, wepete. Oh my gosh pappy .. you took the works right out of my mouth. In order not to repeat what you said I will add. It can almost be frighting to many not know what issues are taken seriously by some on the council. The council is to represent us, "the people," not just the few in our circles but everyone. If we don't hear, see or get to know them, then how are we to know what their vision is for our town? Why can't we seem to have this conversation with the people that represent us? Believe me.... I have tried, with a smile!! I went in with an open mind, but all I got in return was a lecture about taxes, wasted money and what we don't need, and all this happened with a finger pointed in my face. This is frustrating and upsetting to those that really want Summerfield to grow and care about everyone it our town. I believe when you take on a new job there is a period of time to get settled in, but now everyone should be comfortable working together and it doesn't seem this way at all. Maybe it's the word "together" that isn't working. Last edited on May 30th, 2006 03:03 pm by Skiddles |
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FatPappy Member
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Skiddles wrote:I believe when you take on a new job there is a period of time to get settled in, but now everyone should be comfortable working together and it doesn't seem this way at all. Maybe it's the word "together" that isn't working. I agree, Skiddles. Nobody is ever gonna agree 100% o' the time. (Some people might disagree with that.) We heard a lot o' antagonism an' accusasions of ineptitude an' even downright criminal intent leveled at the previous council from the the Concerned Citizens. Some o' what they said may have had merit, some not so much. It was many times their methods, more than their message that was so horrifyin'. Sometimes both. Pappy understands gettin' excited about a cause an' goin' too far. Skiddles is right, it's past time they should be tryin' to work together with their fellow councilpeople. The others are very approachable. I just ain't seen much attempt at reachin' out from the CC side o' the council toward anybody, an' until there is, there's never gonna be much group progress. In my opinion, that's a fact. |
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wepete Member
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FatPappy wrote: Skiddles is right, it's past time they should be tryin' to work together with their fellow councilpeople. The others are very approachable. I just ain't seen much attempt at reachin' out from the CC side o' the council toward anybody, an' until there is, there's never gonna be much group progress. In my opinion, that's a fact. You may already know this but I tried after the election to get everyone together. Lots of emails, phone calls, offers to buy coffee and breakfast, etc. I finally put DC and Patti Stokes together for what I thought was a very productive get together but all other invitees refused to even speak to each other. Its not going to change. Just yesterday I got a copy of an email where one council member called DC names and told him his desire to thank the taxpayers was wrong because we should thank the taxpayers. (yep,,, that's what they said) |
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wepete Member
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Skiddles wrote: The council is to represent us, "the people," not just the few in our circles but everyone. Once upon a time in a room behind the council table the Summerfield Six met to discuss things they were not allowed to discuss in private. Upon their return, one of their number, made a motion to tell the folks what was discussed. Some of the remaining Summerfeld Five were openly against doing so. The info was only made public by the Sixth asking why they would not discuss it. Once upon another time the Summerfield Five met by telephone and illegally agreed to an offer to buy a house and land. The Summerfield Sixth was not notified because the Five knew the Sixth would blow the whistle. Once upon still another time, the Five did not like the results of a survey so they lied about the results until the Sixth spoke up but they continue to cover up the results to this day Once upon... never mind it goes on and on. Point is: They have proven they do not care about us and what we want!!!!! I used to call it project dejure. I agree with Pappy... The CC delivery stunk..... but the message wasn't alll that wrong. |
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FatPappy Member
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wepete wrote:Point is: They have proven they do not care about us and what we want!!!!! I hope you didn't hurt yer finger poundin' out all them exclamation marks, wepete. The "they" you're speakin' of in the astonishin' quote above is the non-CC members of previous and current councils, I assume. I'd have to say the conclusion you draw, that they do not care, is not even in the same hemisphere with accuracy or accuracy's cousins. Many times the citizens have turned a deaf ear toward the council's requests fer citizen input on project after project. Yes, mistakes have been made, but their intention to do the best they can with what they have is clear. Their love of this town is clear. If anyone can be accused of not caring, it's all the potential voters who don't care enough to be called actual voters. Last edited on May 30th, 2006 10:07 pm by FatPappy |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Thank you Pappy. What Wepete said was certainly hurtful to the many of us who have spent many volunteer hours trying very hard to do the right thing for this town that we all live in. |
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FatPappy Member
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No, Jane, thank you! |
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FatPappy Member
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wepete wrote:Just yesterday I got a copy of an email where one council member called DC names and told him his desire to thank the taxpayers was wrong because we should thank the taxpayers. (yep,,, that's what they said) Hmm, I don't know if I'm ready to buy that. I'd like to look this calf over a little more. Uh, is that a tight paraphrase or a loose paraphrase? (See examples below.) Tight paraphrase: I got a email that said I could become a paralegal if I'd sign up an' send them some money. Loose paraphrase: I got a email that said they're bettin' I'm stupid, desperate, an' have a credit card. |
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Starcatchr Member
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wepete, I was surprised to learn that our council members don't care about us!!!!!!! I reckon they volunteered for the job cause they like the verbal beatings. By the way, will somebody explain the term "flame" to me? |
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Waytago Member
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wepete wrote:
Jane & Mike, I am very grateful for your many years of HONEST & dedicated service to Summerfield. As for the current council, even though I don't particularly care for the newest two members, I still prefer to think Honesty and Integrity apply to all of them. Last edited on May 31st, 2006 03:13 pm by Waytago |
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Steve Adkins Member
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OK, I am going to jump in at this point and let it be known this discussion is headed the wrong way. The forum policy states "flame ideas, not people", meaning "attack ideas, not people". The allegations above violate this policy. This topic of "Summerfield Town Council" is and was intended for the current council, and not to revisit the real or perceived issues of past councils. Please focus comments on the current Town Council, any "history lessons" should be relevant to the future of the town. |
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wepete Member
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Starcatchr wrote: By the way, will somebody explain the term "flame" to me?intentionally hateful insults what we used to call trashing.. tear it down for no reason...attacking folks Last edited on May 31st, 2006 01:43 pm by wepete |
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wepete Member
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FatPappy wrote: wepete wrote:You guys are right. I badly misspoke and I apologize to all the council members past and present for the comment. They do care and I know that and have said so many times. I also believe that they all have the town's best interest at heart. I have said that many times as well. I believe all of them have proved their dedication many times over with the sun shining fully on their faces. There was no intent to say Mike is anything but honest. I never served with Mike so I have no first hand knowledge of any action he may or may not have participated in. I do have first hand knowledge of the events and emails I listed and its all a mater of public record. If town folk choose to ignore any council actions, so be it. I will say I have never intentionally lied to the town or anyone in it. To even insinuate my honesty is in question is an insult. To do it from the shadows is cowardly. |
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FatPappy Member
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wepete wrote:FatPappy wrote:wepete wrote:You guys are right. I badly misspoke and I apologize to all the council members past and present for the comment. Nobody's perfect. We all say an' do thangs we wish we could take back. (I may be doin' that now. Hee hee!) King David made some really bad moves in his time, but he admitted it, learned from it an' moved on. Points of view will always be different because we're all standin' in different places. Sometimes in different places on the same trail, sometimes different trails altogether. Got to keep movin' an' lookin' at it from different angles. It's the people who ain't willin' to communicate who are missin' out. They need to move on from that spot. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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wepete wrote: To even insinuate my honesty is in question is an insult. To do it from the shadows is cowardly. wepete You start your commentary contritely by apologizing for mis-speaking, then end by trashing those who challenged your mis-spoken words. You can't have it both ways. Also. there may be some forum participants who don't know who wepete is, therefore you must consider your commentary is also "from the shadows". Again, you can't have it both ways. To all participants - Participants should reconsider the temptation to "get it out of my system today and I'll apologize tomorrow". There is too much personalized commentary in the last several postings, which are unacceptable. Keep the commentary on the current council and the current/future impact to Summerfield. |
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FatPappy Member
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Sorry, Steve. Pappy had a hand in easin' the discussion off track. So, what's up fer bidness at the upcomin' town council meetin'? |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I believe one thing that will be considered is allowing gas pumps to be reinstalled at Shorty Wilson's store (corner of Pleasant Ridge and Carlson Dairy). The store has been there for many, many years, but had some problems with the gas tanks (no leakage or contamination) and who was responsible for them. Now I think the old tanks have been taken care of, but now the grandfather period has expired. In order to allow Shorty to have gas pumps again, it will require the town to remove the property from the critical watershed area. From what I understand, the town has stricter regulations on this than what the state requires. What do you think, folks? |
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Hairbrush Member
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Sandra, where did you find that there has been no contamination? I looked on the HERA website and see that there was an oil spill in 2001 and groundwater and soil contamination in 2000. It also looks like there might be a monitoring well, but I can't seem to find any information on it. I am worried about underground storage tanks being used in a critical watershed area. I am sorry that the permit has run out, but I think it is a poor environmental move to put back in the tanks. I listened to the rezoning request on the property on Pleasant Ridge Road at last council meeting and it seems that council turned down the request because of environmental wetland issues. This seems to be a bigger issue to me because of the chance of leaking with the underground tanks and the chance that the tankers delivering the gas will spill. I know the number of times that I have spilled gas just by pulling the hose out of my car's tank and think of that multiplied by the number of people that pump gas. What is the runoff plan for waste that runs off the concrete, where does it go? Is there a holding tank or does it eventually just land in the soil. It seems that every subdivision that came up for re-zoning was questioned by BS as to where their groundwater study was. Is there a groundwater study on this site? Are we just concerned about the amount of water we have or do we actually want to drink the water? Has a mounding analysis been done to see where the contaminates will flow if there is a spill? I don't think this is a simple of matter of well it was once a gas station so it is okay to be one again. I think this is a chance to really protect our drinking supply. |
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wepete Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Again, you can't have it both ways.I give up. I yield to the insurmountable. I acknowledge there are no lessons in history, the current council is divine (they walk on water) and the future is never in question. Have fun! |
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FatPappy Member
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Hairbrush, what address is that website you're referrin' to? It sounds interestin'. |
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Hairbrush Member
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That address is hera.gheh.org. It is a pretty interesting site. |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged! I tried Googlin' HERA, but all I got was Hera, Queen of the Gods. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Hairbrush wrote: Sandra, where did you find that there has been no contamination? I looked on the HERA website and see that there was an oil spill in 2001 and groundwater and soil contamination in 2000. It also looks like there might be a monitoring well, but I can't seem to find any information on it. Hairbrush, I was told by a member of the Wilson family that there was no contamination (by that, I mean the underground storage tanks were not leaking). However, you are correct about the HERA Web site and the information it shows. I'm doing some checking and have put in a couple of calls to Environmental Health to find out the status. I'll post here when I find out more specific information about any groundwater or soil contamination. Hairbrush has posed some interesting questions, and I really don't have the answers to them. I know the state does have specific steps that much be taken when underground tanks are put in and they are much more stringent than they were years ago. Whether they are stringent enough to definitely provide protection of the water supply (both the groundwater and in the Greensboro watershed), I don't know. I'd encourage citizens to ask questions of their governing bodies on this or any matter if they have concerns. |
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Hairbrush Member
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Thanks, Sandra, for looking into this. I don't all the regulations either, but I think all angles should be looked at before okaying the tanks. I am still doing some digging also. |
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Waytago Member
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Back on the illegal immigrant thing, seems the newspapers are full of it these days. One article I found of interest.......USA Today May 30th Nation Splits 4 way on Illegals - Compromise could alienate half the USA Americans fall into 4 clusters roughly equal in size: Hardliners, Unconcerned, Ambivalent, and Welcoming Those who want to take the toughest steps against illegal immigration also feel the most urgency about the subject. The four groups are starkly at odds on basic issues, making it hard to find common ground. No one in the hard liner groups supports a proposal to allow illegal immigrants to work toward citizenship, but more than 3/4 of those in the other 3 groups do. Opinionated bunch of Americans on this subject !!!!!!!!! (my comment) |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I saw one in the Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch newspaper this week during my travels where the Sheriff of Butler County Ohio has erected a large sign outside his jail that says "ILLEGAL ALIENS HERE" with an arrow pointing to the jail. Actually have a copy of the article This Sheriff is billed the federal government for the cost housing illegal aliens in his jail. He is trying to get the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agendy to deputize his employees so they can enforce federal immigration laws. At a recent Sheriff's association meeting, more than a dozen sheriffs said they had to release detained illegal immigrants because federal immigration agents are too swamped. These Sheriff's are taking the "hardliner" approach, not getting far......yet Summerfield is going to solve everything with a resolution that has no teeth?? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Summerfield Town Council Meeting tonight at 6:30 at the Community Center. Please attend if you can! A friend of mine recieved this email and passed it along to me. I don't think the SRA will mind my sharing a portion of it. Hello to all, Summerfield needs as many of you present at this meeting as possible showing support for SRA and your children's organized activities in the community.It is imperative that all attend. I have been told that Dwayne Crawford has been gathering his supporters against our cause, so we need to be there in force. Tuesday night's meeting has the proposed budget for the next year. SRA has been added to that budget . I attended the budget planning meeting and submitted detailed needs for safety upgrades to our current facility for $36,000.00. The opposition is coming out of the woodwork. Also in the budget is plans for a new ballpark facility that needs our support.The town is looking at possibly purchasing a 20 acre property just north on 220 what used to be Summerfield Auto Parts. 3 years ago Tom Valent and I approached the town about this property and never heard anything back. Now it looks as if it may happen. Anybody that has ever been upset because their children have to play ball till 10 pm or later should show your support for this. More ball fields yield earlier times. Anybody who ever thought their child does not get enough practice time, this would yield more practice time availability on the fields. Anybody who has ever thought about our facility as being outdated, run down, or in need of a lot of repair you need to be there at this meeting showing your support. Please pass this on to everyone you know that is involved with SRA. Thanks for all you do. Jay Copeland President SRA |
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FatPappy Member
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Bravo, town council! Nice shootin', Los Tres Amigos! That ugly illegal alien resolution got shot in the middle like a Dunkin' Donut! Hee hee! Pappy's sources tell him the illegal alien resolution finally came up fer a vote tonight, an' Barnes, Collins, an' Williams voted to put poor DC's misbegotten offspring outta its misery. Pappy's proud o' y'all fer gettin' on with TOWN bidness. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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YAY!!!!! Good news from council! I just got my preliminary phone call updating me on the council meeting and it appears that despite Dwayne's grandstanding and the "Donut Diaries" that he whipped out at council when he thought he was on the verge of losing, the resolution did not pass! So get this....SOMEBODY called the media and the news crews were out in full force with their cameras to witness this shining moment in our town's history. Crawford makes a motion to pass his illegal alien resolution and recieves no second. BS motions to defer the vote on the resolution until the July meeting so that the public can offer input. She recieves no second. Williams states that he thinks the issue needs to be resolved tonight because it will only "fester" and become a much bigger issue than it has already become. Barnes motions to NOT PASS the resolution and Williams seconds. THEN..... Crawford reaches into his bag of tricks and whips out a paper that the Crackah has dubbed "The Donut Diaries" because evidently he would like for us to follow suit with Dunkin' Donuts who have adopted some type of resolution or something and they have a website where the forms for illegals can be verified..... Not sure about the details of this because I couldn't quit laughing when I heard Dunkin' Donuts..... Anyway, this tells ME that Dwayne is prepared to do the enforcing even though he has stated that he is not interested in the town enforcing such a resolution.... only making a political statement. So as a desperate LAST DITCH effort to save his precious resolution Dwayne starts playing with semantics (much like he did before the fall election debacle) He starts IMPLYING that since some of the council don't support his resolution then they are obviously in support of illegals and that they are voluntarily CHOOSING not to honor the laws of our country. I hear it was absolutely ridiculous. Ms. Barnes quickly put him in his place. Yay Dena! BS starts rambling about "mutually exclusive" comments which made no sense other than to point out that she and DC are mutually exclusive. Anyhoo... the resolution did not pass... 3-2 vote. BS and DC against natch. The very large crowd in attendance whooped, hollered and applauded to show their support. OH yea... and they served Krispy Kreme Donuts in the kitchen at break.
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StewartM Member
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Cracker you left out MOM is back.....she was laughing and talking during the budget part of the meeting, being rude like aways, the Town attorney had to tell her to be quite .... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Well shoot Mike. I didn't hear that part. Where is Scuba Jane with her trippin' flippers when ya need her??? Figured Mom would still be busy with Mayor Holliday trying to get the coliseum to sell her kind of popsicles. Maybe she heard Donuts and couldn't stay away! |
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Hairbrush Member
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I also now know why Becky and Dwayne don't feel the need to mingle with the community. Before the vote for illegal immigrants and the vote on Wilson's Grocery she just turned to the crowd and asked for a raise of hands to see who supported what side. So now you know that if you need Becky's vote for something just bring a large crowd to the council meeting to support your side. I think the SRA should ask every parent that has a child playing sports to come to the budget public hearing to support the money they need. Everyone that supports the Park should come out in force also. |
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Baseball Buddy Member 
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BS did a filp flop on her stand. During a earlier Budget Planning Meeting she said she supported SRA and that Summerfield needed more Baseball Fields. Also stated that she played ball as a child and it was the best part of her childhood. When Michael Brandt showed the budget she said she could not support this in any way. Does she think ball fields and land are cheap? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Hey Hairbrush or anyone else who might know... is that budget meeting on the 19th? SRA folks NEED to come to that meeting! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Where is Steve when we need him? I thought we needed his off topic sign last night as Mom in the middle of a rezoning, refused to walk to the microphone as was required of every other citizen and proceeded to rant on and on about time lines and notifications of citizens of rezonings. Very bizarre!! I am so gald that the Town decided to forgo the illegal emigrant resolution. I thought the speakers from the floor had some very good points as to the devisiveness of the proposal. I thought Dena's point about writing our congressmen was very good. Lets do something that may actually have some results. We need to rally around the budget. We need to show our support of ballfields and finishing the park. It is going to be a battle and it is obvious that whoever has the most people at the meeting gets approval from two of the members. Actual needs and wants of the majority has very little to do with anything it seems. Just which side has the most people at the meeting. Next budget meeting is June12th ant 6:30 at school assuming the building is avaiable. Town Adminstrator's contract is going to be discussed in closed session. If you can come then come and show support for Michael and the budget. Public input and this is the meeting as I understand it we can speak at is June 22, 2006 at School media center. This is the meeting where all the SRA folks need to come to support their needs so that the parks and ballfields don't get cut out of the budget. Long meeting last night though. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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The meeting will be on the 22nd at 6:30. Summerfield School multi purpose room. |
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StewartM Member
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BS said last night that she would not vote for the budget with money going for new ballfields, she call it a big sports complex.......I call it ballfields for Summerfield kids to play on before bed time. Everyone needs to be at the public hearing on the budget on June 22th... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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HEY Baseball Buddy! Welcome to the forum!!!!!
I'm guessing your a ball field supporter!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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StewartM wrote: BS said last night that she would not vote for the budget with money going for new ballfields, she call it a big sports complex.......I call it ballfields for Summerfield kids to play on before bed time. Everyone needs to be at the public hearing on the budget on June 22th... Sports Complex huh? Quit with the word games already BS. Reckon they'd consider selling donuts at the concession stand at our new "sports complex"?? Might help to get Crawford's vote. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Sports Complex? That would be nice. I'll try to sell naming rights to Dunkin Dougnuts |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I like you already Baseball Buddy. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I find it hard to believe that Becky ever played ball. Usually organized sports teach your sportmanship and how to be a better citizen. I am not sure I have seen that in Becky yet. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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That's what she said. When she said it DC's mouth flew open and his eye's rolled. I thought at that time I had won her over. Boy am I gulliable. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I wouldn't advise ever trusting those two Baseball Buddy! |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Trust? Pray, Hope,and maybe one day they see the light, YES!!! |
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FatPappy Member
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We also need to write or email the council and write the NWO. Use the forum an' get others on here! That's what it's fer! We have the power. Let's use it! You can bet they'll use ever' behind the scenes dirty they can think of, call it ever' degradin' name they can think of, invent ever' twisted money-wastin' argument they can think of to get their way. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy still cain't get over that useless resolution against illegal aliens! Dwayne tried to twist that into an "If you aren't for it, then you're for breaking the law," argument. The utter bald-faced obscenity of that twisted an' childish attempt disgusts Pappy. It's an abuse o' power, plain an' simple! Pappy knows there's a whole bunch o' reasonable, decent people are out there. We need to let that other bunch hear somethin' from us! |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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The scare tactics of "If you are not for this you are breaking the law" is pure TERRORIZM of Summerfield citizens. |
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FatPappy Member
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So what's next? Tryin' to stop ball teams by passin' a resolution against juvenile gangs on town property? Be it resolved, the Town of Summerfield hereby denounces the presence of juvenile gangs (sometimes referred to as organized ball teams) who conspire to engage in any and all forms of potentially violent activities, i.e, throwing hard round objects (often called baseballs or softballs), swinging wooden or aluminum clubs (sometimes referred to as baseball or softball bats), and engaging in open competition with opposing gangs (sometimes referred to as baseball or softball games) within the unprotected borders of that political entity known as the Town of Summerfield. Far-fetched? |
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FatPappy Member
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If I don't have an American flag flyin' in my yard, does that mean I'm anti-American? No. If I don't say I'm not going to engage in illegal activity today, does that mean I am? No. The council did the right thing by votin' down the illegal alien resolution. It doesn't mean the town is for illegal anything. It means the town council thinks it exists to deal with town issues, not federal issues. It also means the Border Patrol an' the National Guard will simply hafta do the best they can without the full force an' might o' the Town o' Summerfield behind them. (It's just a guess, but that may have been their plan all along.) Also a guess, but the point o' the illegal immigration resolution may have had more to do with throwin' obstacles at the park than any lofty ideals o' truth an' justice. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: Also a guess, but the point o' the illegal immigration resolution may have had more to do with throwin' obstacles at the park than any lofty ideals o' truth an' justice. Amen Pappy! |
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FatPappy Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote:The scare tactics of "If you are not for this you are breaking the law" is pure TERRORIZM of Summerfield citizens. You got that right, Buddy! Welcome, by the way! Pappy gets all wound up some days. Didn't mean to trample ever'body else a-postin'. |
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Waytago Member
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FatPappy wrote: Pappy still cain't get over that useless resolution against illegal aliens! Dwayne tried to twist that into an "If you aren't for it, then you're for breaking the law," argument. The utter bald-faced obscenity of that twisted an' childish attempt disgusts Pappy. It's an abuse o' power, plain an' simple! Agreed Pappy. This is what DC is famous for, twisting people's words around. "Y'all better vote for my cooked up resolution, or I'm gonna make up stories about y'all, and see how many lies I can come up with. After all, it will continue the legacy I started last year with all the mailings to your houses......told some zinger lies then, didn't I? and y'all swallowed them, and elected me to office........dern I'm a smart councilman" Then next month........."I didn't tell any lies, it's all in General Statute 123 subsection 456 paragraph 789 subsection abcde written in 1809, and it's STILL LAW" Dern, another useless resolution we can write........Hey Attorney Hill................ Last edited on Jun 7th, 2006 10:38 pm by Waytago |
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WB Member
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I find that it's rather sad that the business of the Town Council and the town itself is being disrupted by the scism within the Town Council. They have enough work to do without having to tangle with the useless political wrangling. Granted, BS and DC got the most votes in the last election and we have to respect the fact that they have been duly elected by the town's voters as Town Council members. However, it would make everyone's life so much easier if there could be some compromising going on rather than see the constant 3-2 votes. I understand the appeal to the voters of the Concerned Citizens mantra of no taxes and no services. But I see this as not a practical position. If they could compromise towards a position of fiscal responsibility and work with the other Council members and volunteers rather than being seen as intransigent and obstructionist, then real progress could be made. Many of the current initiatives going on in town such as construction of the Park and the pursuit of land for active recreation should not be viewed as wasteful spending of the taxpayers money; but as investment in the future of the town's viability. I believe that these initiatives in particular are the very things that the town should be obligated to do. That is, creating the necessary infrastructure and facilities that make a Town a community and to provide the necessary things that our families must have. Doing this not only provides critical must-have things, but also protects everyone's property values. I think that the Concerned Citizens and in particular BS and DC should be down on their knees and profusely thanking the volunteers who are making things happen and saving the taxpayers a ton of money in the process. Many of the volunteers, such as the volunteer Park construction manager have been very sucessful in making changes that have saved the project a lot of money and have gone towards creating a quality outcome. I wish that all of the Council members would have been present last weekend to get muddy with the rest of us during the playground construction. |
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FatPappy Member
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Good points Waytago an' WB! |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Okay, I know I've been absent for awhile, but couldn't resist jumping back in hear. It seems to me that you have to be careful what you wish for -- you might get it. For lots of people, the bottom line is what is it going to cost me? If there are SRA members out there who voted for some council members just because they wanted to have low/no taxes, it just might be coming back to bite them! It's always easy to spend money on what you want/think you need, but somebody else might feel totally different. Spending money on meat might be a ridiculous expense if you're a vegetarian, but could be very important if you're a cattle farmer. Spending money on cigarettes might be stupid, but if you're a smoker or a tobacco farmer, you might see it differently. I know its different with tax money because it's not just your money. But at least in my mind, there is this "for the good of the community" concept. For the good of the community, I probably would have been in favor of the sheriff's sub-station as well as ballfields (yeah, my kids have been out there at 10 or 11 before). I don't want to spend countless money on taxes, but what are we saving those millions of dollars for anyway? |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Baseball Fields are just one avenue for the Town to give back to the people. Children in this day and time (2006 not 1900 if your looking on DC) need organized activities to keep them active. When a child grows up with this, knowing his/her own children can grow up with this also, that is how a community/town grows from within and become a tighter family. Rather than growth happening from the outside it happens from within. Just some food for thought. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Baseball Fields are just one avenue for the Town to give back to the people. Children in this day and time (2006 not 1900 if your looking on DC) need organized activities to keep them active. When a child grows up with this, knowing his/her own children can grow up with this also, that is how a community/town grows from within and become a tighter family. Rather than growth happening from the outside it happens from within. Just some food for thought.Let's all give some mana/love to BB. I'll go first. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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zippitydoodah wrote: Baseball Buddy wrote:Baseball Fields are just one avenue for the Town to give back to the people. Children in this day and time (2006 not 1900 if your looking on DC) need organized activities to keep them active. When a child grows up with this, knowing his/her own children can grow up with this also, that is how a community/town grows from within and become a tighter family. Rather than growth happening from the outside it happens from within. Just some food for thought.Let's all give some mana/love to BB. I'll go first. I'll second that Zippy!! |
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Skiddles Member
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You are correct WB, the town should be building the necessary infrastructure it needs, right now. If we don't think about these things today, then tomorrow these issues will be a much larger matter and more complex. Increasing land costs and shrinking availability make this a current concern. Yes to the Community park & yes to sports fields! |
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FatPappy Member
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Welcome back, zippity! Pappy likes what he's hearin'. |
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FatPappy Member
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Skiddles wrote:
YES! |
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FatPappy Member
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Spendin' on ballfields = Investin' in our young'uns! |
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FatPappy Member
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Despite the 3-2 vote declarin' the illegal immigration resolution legally dead, Pappy feels the need to whomp that dead horse one or two more good licks to see if it's really dead or just smells that way. Why, why, why, out of all the countless real life an' death problems out there stacked up an' waitin' in line fer somebody to even act like they care, why in the world would anybody think the Town of Summerfield needs to run over an' grab illegal immigration an' rush it to the front o' the line like a accident victim in need o' more immediate emergency treatment than the others? Why? Why, out of all the other good things we actually could be accomplishin' in this town, why is this such an absolute "right thing to do"? Where was the public outcry that demanded council's action? Where were the throngs o' citizens across the country desperately clingin' to Summerfield as if it was the last life boat o' law-abidin' decency on a sinkin' ship? Is all this really some grand an' noble attempt to take a stand an' change the world startin' with Summerfield? Or is this whole thang a hypocritical attempt to use a wedge issue to divide an' manipulate the citizens in order to accomplish some different, less noble goal that could not be accomplished by more civilized means? |
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FatPappy Member
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Skiddles wrote:
Now, back to some impo'tant bidness! |
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zippitydoodah Member
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FatPappy wrote: Despite the 3-2 vote declarin' the illegal immigration resolution legally dead, Pappy feels the need to whomp that dead horse one or two more good licks to see if it's really dead or just smells that way. If this was a real important issue, we could use that portable defibrillater that Town is talking about buying on it. But wait..... saving somebody's life is probably a waste of taxpayer money!!!!! FatPappy wrote: Despite the 3-2 vote declarin' the illegal immigration resolution legally dead, Pappy feels the need to whomp that dead horse one or two more good licks to see if it's really dead or just smells that way.Does anybody know where that little cartoon of the dead horse being whomped is hiding? We might need to pull him out for Pappy. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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There you go Zippy! I keep him in my pocket for these occasions!! Beat on Pappy! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I know I should not be taking sides in an issue being a moderator, but nonetheless will still make the comment: Dwayne & Becky, I know darn well you guys are reading these forums, and I hope you're taking the commentary to heart. You're out of touch with the people you're supposed to represent. Get off your PERSONAL agendas, and get in sync with your CONSTITUENTS agendas. You're out of touch !! HEY DC & BS, ARE YOU LISTENING ??????????????? OR DO I NEED TO GET IN YOUR FACES IN A TC MEETING AGAIN ???????? Last edited on Jun 9th, 2006 06:37 pm by Steve Adkins |
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happycamper Member 
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I'm a little behind on the ball field situation. I do have a child that is under 10, I would like her to have the opportunity to play soccer in our area as opposed to GYSA, which by the way costs $ 95.00 in the spring session, and $ 95.00 in the fall. She does the cheerleeding at Summerfield, which she seems to enjoy. The folks who coach, and run the SRA, have my respect, they do a great job. I just have a few questions & Comments... 1) Who owns the fields they use now ? 2) Has all other options been looked into. I know at one meeting they mentioned a developer that was trying to "Swap" some land for some fields. It was my understanding that lighting would be an issue however..Given this could the kids still use the older facilities in conjunction with the newer ones, having all the activities take place during daylight hours? It was also mentioned that this developer might donate some funds towards the purchase of some land at another location...Maybe this is a part of the new land deal? Like I say, I'm playing catch up on this. I personally would like to see a " community center" approach..which also would include indoor facilities for basketball and community class needs., (the gym at summerfield is not in such good shape) with fields for softball, soccer and the like. ...I grew up going to Lewis Center in Greensboro. Not only did the center serve as a place for Basketball & Baseball.,It also was used for community activities from Square Dance lessons, Karate Lessons, Dog Training, Meetings, Social Acitivities, Art classes,dance lessons,Reunions, and the like. I assume they rented the center for these activities to help fund/maintain the center. I know for cheerleeding practice, the girls have to cram into Laughlin/Summerfield, it could serve this purpose as well. You know this was the first year in quite some time that Center Church did not have anyone to manage the local softball (church) leagues. Maybe by having a "Center" like this , it would also lend itself to these type adult leagues that could in turn also have folks that donate time, money, etc.. to help maintain and manage the overall facility. When you think about it, Summerfield lacks a good place for both the needs for the youth and the elderly alike. I do not have a problem with my tax dollars going towards bettering our children and having top notch facilities for them., I just want to make sure that we are getting what we pay for. ( will this include soccer fields?) I wont lie, I prefer no taxes at all, but if I am going have to pay in... I think I would rather see it go towards a facility that not only takes the place of overcrowded older facilities, but also meets the needs of the community as a whole. If we can't take this "Center" approach now due to money, do you know of this has been addressed and will we be able to build something like this on the proposed sight in the future? I Think it would be a little short sighted not to include this in the overall planning... Again, I'm playing catch up so this may be a already a consideration.. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Happy Camper you make some really good points. First of all, let me say that I would guess the majority of residents agree with your statement that you prefer no taxes. We'd all prefer no taxes. I just don't think it's realistic to think we can run a town the size of Summerfield with no taxes. Here's what I know.... We used to get a big chunk of money from the county. The county took that money away. Seems that some folks aren't aware that the county now subsidizes our tax money only BECAUSE we charge a tax - not as much $$$ as they used to give us before SF taxation, but it's something. Quit charging a tax and the county takes ALL of our money. Not at all logical but that's the way it is. Check out the budget in the NWO... even without the "perks" we've got to have money to run the town. In answer to your first question, the Guilford County School System owns the SRA facilities. They can take them away at any time. If they need land, the ballfields will be the first thing to go you can bet on it. You are correct about the Armfield land. There are lighting restrictions so daylight games would be necessary. Great for Saturdays, but for working parents during the week, not so great. LOVE LOVE LOVE your idea about the rec center approach. In fact, I indicated that desire on my park survey that the council put out a while back. And I'll just be you and I crossed paths at Lewis Rec growing up! About Soccer Fields, the SRA doesn't have a soccer program right now so they naturally aren't focusing on acquiring soccer fields. However with all of the soccer families out here we know they would be used. My advice would be for the soccer families to let their opinions be heard to the council and the SRA. Just imagine, with the School land, the Armfield land, and the new "Sports Complex", kids young and old could play soccer or baseball. Kids could play sports without having to "make the team" due to a limited number of spots available and Adult leagues could soon be a reality. |
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Lacka Member
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GO SMS, GO SMS, Go SMS......... Insert Cabbage patch here. |
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Lacka Member
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The littlest Lacka played until after 9:00 the other night. This was a school night. I heard that the girls softball had been run off of their field so that the boys could play, Does anyone know if this is this true?? The little Lacka did play a couple of games on the girls softball field they had to place a fake pitcher's mound on the girls softball field so that the boys could pitch. (seemed hard for the boys, but thanks SRA for providing that) For those of you who may not know the boys baseball and the girls softball pitch differently. The girls from flat land and the boys from a mound. It seems sad for the girls that they have been runn off to other locations when they are from S-field. Anyone know anything about that?? Talking sports, so have to talk in bama black......... |
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Lacka Member
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Would love to hear from David Dean if anyone knows him. Think he has a lot to offer and could add alot to this forum. Can anyone contact him. Hear he is a Dunham fan, HAHHAHHHHHAAAAAA. |
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Skiddles Member
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I would love to see Summerfield children playing soccer in Summerfield. One of my little Skittles has to play in High Point. He did play for GYSA (Bryan Park) which is on the other side of the world also. Gosh ... playing in our own town, what a thought... hummmm! |
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FatPappy Member
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Steve Adkins wrote:HEY DC & BS, ARE YOU LISTENING ??????????????? GO STEVE!!! |
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FatPappy Member
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Anybody know when the park's gonna officially open? Pappy's got him a taste fer a barbecued chicken picnic at the park. Got my birth certificate, my driver's license with Gov. Terry Sanford's signature on it, my official Merita bread Lone Ranger badge, an' my Sociable Security card, in case the Concerned Park Security is screenin' fer illegals at the park. Hope there won't be a line to get through the check point. By the way, if a comp'ny doin' bidness with the town is found to be engaged in illegal activity OF ANY KIND in the performance o' their contract with the town, wouldn't that be grounds fer breakin' the contract? Couldn't some kind o' legal sounded language like that be in any town contract? Why single out illegal alien activity? Shouldn't the goal be to avoid ANY illegal activity? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: By the way, if a comp'ny doin' bidness with the town is found to be engaged in illegal activity OF ANY KIND in the performance o' their contract with the town, wouldn't that be grounds fer breakin' the contract? Couldn't some kind o' legal sounded language like that be in any town contract? Why single out illegal alien activity? Shouldn't the goal be to avoid ANY illegal activity? I think that's EXACTLY the point Dunkin' Dwayne can't get thru his noggin Pappy. |
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FatPappy Member
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Ol' Dunkin's got a doughnut hole right in the middle of his plan an' he's dumb enough to think we're dumb enough not to notice. That's what I think. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Attention SRA and interested parents! Special Summerfield Town Council Meeting Monday, June 12 - 6:30 at SUMMERFIELD SCHOOL excerpt from agenda posted on Town Website: BUSINESS FROM TOWN ADMINISTRATOR A. Continued discussion of proposed 2006-2007 Operating Budget (M. Brandt/D. Luther) (Ballfield opponets will probably attend) B. Resolution designating $400,000 from undesignated fund balance to designated fund balance for parks and recreation (M. Brandt) |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Boy do we neeeeeed some ball fields or what. I just had to spend alot of money for repair to the plumbing of Guilford County's School here in Summerfield. Got a call Sat morn from the ball park that there was no water pressure and the mad mommies could not flush the toilets. Thank God for the power of Nextel. Had it repaired about 45 min later. Broken water main due to old age and new flow master installed in toilets. This just goes to show a very small portion of the money spent continually to just maintain this facility. Part of the proposed budget is $36,000.00 for much needed upgrades and repair to SRA's current facility. With safety in mind first and needed upgrades second.This includes Safety Fencing for spectators passing through the Batting cage/warm up area. Fenced in Bull pen to warm up pitchers without any danger to spectators. Replacing of rusted fencing that has been in place since the ball park was origanally constructed. And no DC and BS we are not wasting money here, I will gladly reimburse your personal part of taxes that come to Parks and rec. |
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Lacka Member
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We need more baseball buddies, anyone seen David Dean.......? bama black |
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Cracker Jax Member
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What happened at the SF TC meeting tonight Scuba Jane???
I hear BS is in heat to sell the land where our new municipal building is gonna go. I also heard that "pit bull" Bob Williams told her he hadn't dropped the municipal building idea and she freaked. Go Bob! Why o Why o Why would you want to sell a piece of land that is only gonna appreciate in value??? That's just not good business sense if you asked me. It's not like we're hurting for the moolah right now is it??? Owing that land is like having a nice little nest egg that the town can sell (for even more money) later on down the road if we end up needing a bigger and better spot for our bigger and better Municipal building. Right???? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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After waiting over 2 hours for the council to get out of closed session. BS had to have the closed session first so she could make decisions on the budget, no decisions were made. Lots of posturing. Long rambling speech by DC on this being a politcal meeting and this being a political body. I don't think anybody there was under the mistaken impression that this was a meeting of the Oprah Book Club so not sure what his point was. No discussion on the $32,000 in the budget for AV equipment so that the 50 people who sometime show up for the council meetings can hear but lots of talk about spending the money so that hundreds of Summerfield kids have place to play ball hopefully at a decent hour of the night and their parents won't have to park in other peoples front yards. Long discussion on the proposed truck for the town. Thats when BS made a motion to sell the property on Summerfield Rd to pay for the truck. Bob jumped in with his motion to build the municipal building. Next meeting is June 22 at 6:30 at the school and that is the big meeting. It is important that people come because that is when the budget should be adopted. This is the chance to get funding in the budget for next year. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I would certainly like to know what $32,000 for AV equipment is going to get us. Sure sounds fancier than a lot of home recording studios. I guess the town could generate some revenue by renting out the equipment to local bands so they can record. It is funny how BS and DC are always talking about the cost of maintenance, but no cost of maintenance has come up on this AV equipment. Who is going to maintain it, what is it going to cost to keep it upgraded, and how much training is it going to take to learn to run it? I know my company gets an IT guy on staff and that a day doesn't go by that I am not calling him about something. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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The AV equipment that DC asked for in the budget in the begining was a estimated cost between 50k and 60k. This would only benifit the meetings DC wanted to record so he and BS would not be mis-quoted. His list that was turned in for the budget included many iteams nobody knew what they were and he had no iteamized costs for them. SRA turned in a list of SAFETY ITEAMS with iteamized costs of 36k and DC said " This is political and I take spending the people of Summerfield's money serious." What a joke he is! He will spend 60K for AV equipment verses 36K for safety issues. I hope all of Summerfield knows he don't care if our towns children/parents get hurt while playing/spectating. Now what was the delay with DC speach?, "I want everyone to know this is a political venue and we are a politcal group and political things go on here." No crap DC I thought we were having a picnic. Last night was a joke. The Executive session was dragged out so people would get tired and leave. BS and DC don't want the good people to see what they really are. How about DC grabbing for straws. Where does he get these ideas? I can't wait to see what they have to say about the Turkey Shoot. Gobble Gobble with your foot in mouth. |
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FatPappy Member
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I see a lot more benefit coming out of ballfields than sound systems, although I wouldn't mind being able to hear better. If we need to spend money on a new sound system, that's OK, but let it fit the need. I wouldn't pay 50-60 cents to hear DC give a speech. A political speech, by the way. Do we really need a sound system that fancy right now? Can't we just get a couple more speakers and put them in the back so us folks back there can hear over Mom's political cackling? What happened to the technology committee to make recommendations for this kind of thing? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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$32,000 for Audio equipment huh? For that price, I would expect to be able to hear the council meetings from my house. It is difficult to hear at council meetings. I don't know much about that kind of techno stuff but surely we could get something cheaper. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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I have a bullhorn to donate! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Long discussion on the proposed truck for the town. Thats when BS made a motion to sell the property on Summerfield Rd to pay for the truck. Bob jumped in with his motion to build the municipal building. I heard that BS said she would rather call in volunteers to haul things the town might need to haul. Interesting how she doesn't know the volunteers even exist until she needs to fight something. Doesn't she know that Summerfield volunteers are an endangered species due to her constant berating and sideshow antics? Pappy, if we have a town emergency please tell your family to sit tight and wait to be saved while you pick up the town's emergency generator in your pickup truck and haul it where it needs to go. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: I have a bullhorn to donate! Too funny BB! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Someone just forwarded an email to me from the SF PTA Prez asking for attendance at the June 22 TC meeting... Thanks!
BB, please make the SRA folks aware that 2 of the council members have a history of dragging things out and wasting time in meetings so that the majority of the public and people with kids will go home and not be in attendance when the issue they really wanted to hear finally comes up.
Tell them to bring a pillow and a blanket and stick it out. |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Hee hee! Maybe we should keep the generator hooked up to the sound system so we can hear any upliftin' speeches durin' the time o' crisis. Maybe record 'em to give the survivors somethin' to look forward to. Simulcast en Español! But seriously, I wonder about their thinkin' an' their priorities some days. Seems to be a very curious disconnect with reality from time to time. Are we sure they're talkin' 'bout the same town? Should we casually bring that question up in the next meetin', you know, just to confirm they're really talkin' about Summerfield? Might be worth checkin'... |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
That is a very good point, Crackah! |
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Lacka Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Boy are you ever right. I don't know if it is just that these two like to argue, or if they really think they are going to learn these dumb ole council members something after all. The closed session kept the 13 citizens in attendance sitting for two hours. As the council members took their places, Dwayne held the meeting up yet again by downloading, or uploading or dumping or something. He asked Sandra if he could use her computer. Doesn't he have a computer of his own for tasks of this nature. I would imagine that other council members are not borrowing the computer that belongs to the paper to take care of town business. Anyway whatever he was doing, he held the meeting up even further. All other council members were ready to resume the meeting. UGH UGH!! |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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SRA, PTA, Friends, and family will be at this meeting. Ol' Duncan, Sue, and Mom will be in for a big suprise when they hear from all these mad mommies. You know kids can't vote and I think this is the only reason these 2 act the way they do. But I know some of the kids in a few years will be able to vote. Who does BS and DC think these 800 kids of SRA are going to vote for. Just some food for thought if your looking on BS&DC |
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Cracker Jax Member
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From the NWO website: Specific expenditures discussed by the council included paying the mayor and council members a stipend each month to compensate them for time spent at meetings and conducting town business, purchasing a used truck for town use, and the proposed expenditure of $1.1 million to buy land and develop it as athletic fields. Does anyone else think it's odd that there was never talk of PAYING our council members until BS and DC joined the council?? Don't get me wrong. Most of them deserve the pay. I just think the timing is interesting. Something's rotten in Summerfield. |
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WB Member
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I've read the postings regarding last night's TC meeting and couldn't help but make a few observations. First, I hope that during the long intermission while Council went into closed session, that everyone had a chance to go look at the newly finished playground next to the Community Center. Assembling it was a bigger project than what I would have envisioned and I'm glad we had so much help playing in the mud. Was is known ahead of the meeting that a closed session was going to happen or was it an unexpected request? If it was known ahead of time, I would think that that information could have been shared which would have helped those citizens that attended the meeting. I hate to be cynical, but if it was sprung as a surprise, was this a deliberate attempt to prolong the start of the meeting so as to drive away people from the meeting? It was also mentioned that Mr Crawford further delayed the start of the meeting with his computer problems. Seems to me that this should have been a personal issue that should have not delayed the meeting. If he can't get his computer to work then that's his problem, not everyone elses, and it is not reasonable to delay the meeting because of it. Unless (putting cynical hat on) this was another part of a delay tactic. It was interesting reading the comment that Ms Strickland requested help from community volunteers in doing the hauling work. I understand that Mr Crawford has also in the past made comments that he hopes to get volunteers to help. I certainly missed seeing either of them when we were building the playground 2 weekends ago. My point is, as elected members of Town Council, the community looks upon them as community leaders. And as such, all members of Town Council should be leading from the front and setting the example. Their presence at work events such as the playground construction, or the volunteer appreciation event, or at Founders Day would be welcome and would help tremendously in showing that the Council is a team there to serve the interests of everyone in the community. |
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Lacka Member
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Glad you asked Crackah, There was talk of paying the council which I think is a good idea. Keep in mind the amounts that they were discussing were not a lot of money, but it ranged from 100.00 to 500.00 per month. The town did research what other towns were paying and the numbers are quite a blur after all of the discussion. We would be paying low in comparison to other towns of our size, but considering they have never been paid before...... I understood that the fee was not to pay for the time spent at town meetings, but to cover the cost of visiting people in the community on town business, the cost of ink for their printers, mileage, etc. I think the they were talking 150 for the council and 200 for the Mayor. They had said 100.00 for the council, and Becky said that was not enough. There was some discussion that took place, well maybe it was an argument about 1099s and W2 Forms and how BS woud come out the best tax wise personally. Scuba Jane could you please help with this, I really cannot remember what happened in the argument, OK I drifted. I don't know what happened but when she started arguing that she knew what she was talking about I picked up my copy of "The History of Door Hinges" and started reading. I keep it with me just in case she rambles. Scuba Jane, or Mike I do have two questions that you might be able to answer since you have served on council. Question 1 If they are being paid a salary to be a town employee does that mean that the town will no longer have to continue to make them copies of everything and print everthing out for them? Wouldn't this now fall under their own expenses. I really don't want my tax dollars to pay for something twice. If we are allotting money for them to do this themselves then we are paying for someone to do this for them at town hall aren't we paying for it twice? Question 2 If BS had the argument about the 1099s and W2 Forms and argued how it was going to effect her personal taxes then does this tell us that she is out for BS and not the town? |
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Lacka Member
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BTW Scuba Jane next time I pass you a note in class don't give me THE MAMA look and then pass the note to your daughters. Hee hee. |
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Lacka Member
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Just read your post, and in the words of Pappy and Crackah........... You are my Hero!!!! Well said WB!!!!!! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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WB- BS asked to have the closed session put at the beginning of this meeting at the regular town council meeting the Tuesday before. Said she had to know what Michaels contract and compensation was going to be before she could discuss the budget. But 2 hours for heavens sake!!! They should have been able to write a whole new contract in that length of time. Very disrespectful to the public also I thought. Lacka- Sorry abut the Mama look but I had to share the note. It was pretty funny. I think what was being discussed about W2versus 1099 was if they only got a $100 then on a W2 it would cost them more in taxes then it would be worth. I do think though that the same sort of compensation was mentioned last year and the cc's screamed bloody murder about the council being a tax and spend council. . I guess it is different when you are the person attending the meetings. As to the copies, the way I understand our mayor/council form of fovernment,no council member can request work from the staff without it being approved by the mayor. So actually there should be very little of that going on. But that it does not apply to is the public and I understand the request for information under the freedom of information act from the CC's continues unabated and is part of the reason for us tax payers footing the bill for another part time person. Latest request is 5 pages of single typed lines of requests for documents. We have one planner, One clerk and on administrator for 8,100 people and this type of foolishness continues. I can not imagine what all this has cost us tax payers over the last 2.5 years. They should be reaching critical mass by now. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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WB wrote: It was also mentioned that Mr Crawford further delayed the start of the meeting with his computer problems. Seems to me that this should have been a personal issue that should have not delayed the meeting. If he can't get his computer to work then that's his problem, not everyone elses, and it is not reasonable to delay the meeting because of it. Unless (putting cynical hat on) this was another part of a delay tactic. I just wanted to clarify what was going on with Dwayne and my computer. At the council meeting on June 6, the town's recording equipment quit working. Dwayne has a little recording device that he uses to record the meeting for his personal use. While it's not required by law to have a recording of the meetings, it does make it easier on the clerk when she has to go back and reconstruct the meeting in order to do the minutes (especially when it's a 5 1/2 hr. meeting like they had that night). Dwayne volunteered to let the town use his recording. The only problem is that his device only has capacity for about 4 hours of recording before it is full. As a favor, he asked me if he could download or "dump" the stuff off his device onto my computer. The same thing happened Monday night because the town's recording equipment was not yet fixed. After that extremely long executive session, no one knew how long the regular meeting would last, so Dwayne used my computer to transfer the information (this time he had brought his own storage device along, but he still had to use my computer in order to do so). So while it may have appeared that Dwayne was delaying the meeting because he had some kind of "technical difficulties," actually just the opposite was true -- he was doing the town a favor by letting them use his recording device. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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WB wrote: First, I hope that during the long intermission while Council went into closed session, that everyone had a chance to go look at the newly finished playground next to the Community Center.WB - I'm sorry I didn't get the chance to go check out the park. Since the meeting was held at the school, it wasn't just a matter of stepping out the door to check it out like if it had been held at the Community Center. If I'd had any idea how long that executive session was going to last, I would have not only checked out the playground, but probably taken a walk on the trail and maybe even swam a couple of laps while I was at it (just kidding about that last part. No swimming with beavers for me!) |
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Cracker Jax Member
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S. Smith wrote: Dwayne was delaying the meeting because he had some kind of "technical difficulties," actually just the opposite was true -- he was doing the town a favor by letting them use his recording device. Thanks for clarifying that Sandra. I was wondering about that. Oh, and thanks Dwayne for sharing your recording with Ms. Rumley. |
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StewartM Member
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Lacka wrote: Scuba Jane, or Mike I do have two questions that you might be able to answer since you have served on council. #1 The clerk will still have to make them copies. There is too much info coming from all sides (planning, budget, etc...). This would be for what they print or copy at home and other expenses. #2 If it is income you pay taxes on it. I have never got a check from the town and do not want one. We are a small town and do not need a paid council. The town will pay (if you want it) any expenses doing town business. BS has already said she would not vote for the budget. She said she would listen to the voters. The public hearing for the voters to speak on the budget is June 22. Looks like she has already made her mind up and will not listen to the voters. |
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FatPappy Member
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They knew the job was unpaid when they took it. (And I do mean "took".) I can understand wantin' to be reimbursed fer expenses. Why don't they just keep up with receipts fer any expenses and tarn 'em in at the end o' the month, up to a certain limit, instead o' givin' 'em a "salary"? Some months they might not spend as much an' it makes it more accountable. Just a thought. George Holub an' a lot o' others know the meanin' o' "volunteer." We couldn't pay what they're worth. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I'll put my two cents worth in here, even though I don't live in Summerfield and don't have a dog in this fight. In all honesty, I don't see anything wrong with council members getting paid a little. It's not really a salary, it's a stipend. I'm sure Jane and Mike can attest that there is a lot more to being a council member than just coming to a meeting once a month -- there are meetings required of council members, they use their personal cars, talk on their home or personal cell phone or use their own computers to contact other council members, town personnel or constituents, print out things on their own printers, volunteer/participate in town activities (everything from hauling off trash to riding on a float), speak to the media, make appearances on behalf of the town, etc. etc. etc. The amount they receive can in no way compensate them for all they do. It's just like an allowance to help offset some of the costs they do incur (many of them are impossible to track). Yes, they voluntarily took the job. But to my knowledge, none of the Summerfield council members asked for this -- Dana and Michael realized it was being paid elsewhere and put it in the budget. The average was something like $350 per month for council members and $500 for the mayor. Summerfield even asked what had been recommended ($200/$250) be lowered (to $150/$200). Oak Ridge and Stokesdale council members have received a stipend for years. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I certainly don't have a problem with them getting paid. Some of them do a lot of work. It sounded like the town was already paying reimbursements so this should help a little also. I even applaud BS for wanting to drop the amount the council would receive as payment, but then discussion after about personal taxes seemed petty to me. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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FatPappy wrote: George Holub an' a lot o' others know the meanin' o' "volunteer." We couldn't pay what they're worth.I agree 100%, Pappy. |
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FatPappy Member
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Sandra, you make good sense, an' you know, I don't mind council members gettin' a little money fer expenses outta the deal either. That's a tough job. I was just bein' onery earlier, an' tryin' not to make it too easy on certain folkses, which is sorta my self-appointed volunteer job. As far as Pappy's concerned, it ain't no big deal. |
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WB Member
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S. Smith wrote:
I appreciate your taking the time to clarify the issue and it makes a lot of sense now. My apologies to any and all for making any disparaging comments. |
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WB Member
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I'm struggling to conclude how I feel about the Town Council getting paid rather than submitting for expense reimbursement. My tummy tells me that Council members asked for and ran for their positions knowing that it is unpaid. It just doesn't feel right to be changing the structure right now. It may make better sense to propose making this change effective for the next Council which would start after the next election in 2008. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Good point WB.
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macca Member
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Skiddles wrote:I would love to see Summerfield children playing soccer in Summerfield. One of my little Skittles has to play in High Point. He did play for GYSA (Bryan Park) which is on the other side of the world also. Gosh ... playing in our own town, what a thought... hummmm! Stokesdale has a fall soccer league. Registration is going on now. Practice begins in August, with games beginning right after Labor Day and going on thru the end of October. There is a link to Stokesdale Parks and Rec from the Town of Stokesdale web site (http://www.stokesdale.org)♥♥♥ |
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FatPappy Member
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WB wrote:I'm struggling to conclude how I feel about the Town Council getting paid rather than submitting for expense reimbursement. I know what you mean, WB. I felt the same way first time I heard about it. Speakin' fer myse'f, I think there's enough good involved that it ain't worth opposin' either way. But, Pappy's always got a open mouth, I mean, a open mind. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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FatPappy wrote: But, Pappy's always got a open mouth, I mean, a open mind.Freudian slip, Pappy? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I really think to expect our council members, even if they did volunteer, to keep the schedule that our representatives need to keep, should include some compensation. I found being on the Town council to be like having a second job and it really took a lot of time. Also by receiving this stipend of tax payers money maybe there is a stronger argument for expecting council members to participate in activities other than just attending council meetings. |
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FatPappy Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:Also by receiving this stipend of tax payers money maybe there is a stronger argument for expecting council members to participate in activities other than just attending council meetings. Good point! |
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FatPappy Member
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Zippity, hee hee. I reckon as long as the open mouth goes along with the open mind, that ain't so bad. Sorta need both to make it work. |
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SaltyDog Member 
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Please excuse my ignorance and all the questions but I'm trying to form an opinion about council member compensation. Jane, based on your experience as a council member, what amount do you think is appropriate as compensation? Does anyone know if council members in Oak Ridge, Stokesdale, Greensboro, etc. are compensated? Currently in Summerfield, what types of expenditures are reimbursable to council members and who reviews what is submitted for reimbursement? TIA |
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S. Smith Moderator
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SaltyDog wrote: Does anyone know if council members in Oak Ridge, Stokesdale, Greensboro, etc. are compensated? Salty, In Oak Ridge, council members get a $100 per month stipend and the mayor gets $400. In Stokesdale, council members get $300 per quarter, mayor pro tem gets $400 and mayor gets $450 per quarter. I feel sure Greensboro council members are compensated, but I have no idea how much. County commissioners get $1,725 per month, and the chair gets $2,025. School board members are also compensated. |
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SaltyDog Member
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SS - thanks for the good info. Maybe I'm just confused but are the Summerfield folks talking about compensation instead of reimbursement or about compensation in addition to reimbursement? I assume compensation would be for their service as council members and reimbursement is for personal funds spent on behalf of the town. Last edited on Jun 16th, 2006 03:37 pm by SaltyDog |
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FatPappy Member
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I don't know the official version, but I thought the money would NOT be a salary per se, but more of a in lieu of expenses kinda deal. (That's lawyer talk, right there!) Sorta like the allowance Mammy gives me...money to spend on whatever might he'p 'em in the performance o' their duties. Any expenses they might incur beyond their "allowance" would need to be approved before they incur it or else they're outta luck. I don't think they ought to get a allowance PLUS expenses. But that's just my assumptions. I don't know. |
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Lacka Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:
Does this mean that council members will be expected to attend events that they are invited to??? Christmas tree lighting, volunteer appreciation, Founders Day etc.????? Both Dwayne and BS were invited to all and did not bother to show. All other council members RSVPD with a reason, or they were there......Hello do they just ignore invitations. Not really representing the town here, huh???? Who doesn't come to Founder's Day?? Hello people do you see what they are interested in? Themselves???? |
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Lacka Member
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FatPappy wrote: I don't know the official version, but I thought the money would NOT be a salary per se, but more of a in lieu of expenses kinda deal. (That's lawyer talk, right there!) Sorta like the allowance Mammy gives me...money to spend on whatever might he'p 'em in the performance o' their duties. Any expenses they might incur beyond their "allowance" would need to be approved before they incur it or else they're outta luck. I don't think they ought to get a allowance PLUS expenses. Hello, It's called a Lance....... The two CC members of the council will be collecting this money twice.... Don't you see this??? From what I understood they wanted money for their ink cartridges, mileage, attending events (which the cc doesn't) etc... with the salary and them having the office staff at TH doing this for them, we are paying for it twice. Is this saving tax payers $$? So far I have only seen these two spending more. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Salty dog first let me say I loved working for the Town as a council member but the amount of time I spent was huge. It would have been nice to have been compensated a little for the gas, time and all the late nights. I don't think the council should be compensated and get expenses also except for Town approved mileage maybe for trips far away and that should be approved in an open meeting. There is not enough money in the world to pay for the amount of time that Dena, Bob, Carolyn, Mike and Mark and all the other council members have spent over the years in meetings, and all the many activities I think are important for council members to attend. I Helped teach the school kids at the Town Hall history one year, read to classes during reading week at Summerfield and Laughlin, Christmas lightening, Founders day, Stokesdale Parade plus all the different committees I served on as did all the other council plus their special projects. Some of us also have or had full time jobs during our time. It would have been nice to get a small token from the Town and taxpayer. I expect I would have used mine if we had been compensated buying my husband pizza for all the dinners I wasn't there for. I think $200 is fair but I don't think there should be expenses also. Salty how is that for a rambling answer. |
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FatPappy Member
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From the new an' improved NWO web site we find this jewel concernin' the budget proposal fer buyin' ballfield land: "Strickland said she could not vote for a budget which spends almost 65 percent on one item." That makes absolutely no sense! It means nuthin'! It says nuthin'! Should New Orleans reject levees because they consume a certain arbitrary percentage o' the budget? Riduculous! Well, I don't see how anybody can vote for somebody who has a higher percentage of concern fer money than concern fer kids! |
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FatPappy Member
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Another jewel from the NWO website, Pappy's second favorite site: "Gail Dunham spoke out loud from the floor about the town’s liability, and laughed aloud during Brandt’s presentation. Attorney Hill told Dunham she would have the opportunity to speak during the public hearing and asked her to have the courtesy of being quiet during the presentation." I wish Dwayne would send us all a recordin' o' that! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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FatPappy wrote: From the new an' improved NWO web site we find this jewel concernin' the budget proposal fer buyin' ballfield land:Becky Strickland said she would not vote for a budget which spends almost 65 percent on one item without a referendum. She called me down for the error in the June 12 meeting. When I went back and listened to the recording of the June 6 meeting, I heard her add that caveat, which I had not heard originally. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Isn't that the purpose of a public hearing? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Posted: Jun 18th, 2006 09:27 am Isn't that the purpose of a public hearing? Only if enough people who really want something show up, does the public hearing system work. My experience for the last few years is that the hand full of naysayers have shown up in mass while the majority of people who expect the council to do the right thing stay home. If you want to Town to do something about ballfields or rather the lack of ballfields or any other hearing then Mr and Ms Summerfield resident need to show up for the public hearing and express their opinion otherwise the council sits there and listens to only one side of the issue. I am hoping that a large percentage of the 800 to a thousand parents of kids in SRA show up with buttons, posters, Tshirts and what ever else they can think of to let the council know they have been put on the back burner long enough. The SRA parents need to be serious about this if it is to happen. Okay now I will get off my soap box. |
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FatPappy Member
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S. Smith wrote:FatPappy wrote:From the new an' improved NWO web site we find this jewel concernin' the budget proposal fer buyin' ballfield land:Becky Strickland said she would not vote for a budget which spends almost 65 percent on one item without a referendum. She called me down for the error in the June 12 meeting. When I went back and listened to the recording of the June 6 meeting, I heard her add that caveat, which I had not heard originally. Well that ain't no fun. Jane's right. Hope the cheerleadin' squad fer the hometeam is warmin' up! |
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Hairbrush Member
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Maybe if DC and BS would come to some of the events that they have been invited they would know how important ball fields are to the citizens. DC was all worried about the vandalism that might take place on the new summerfield signs, well without something for these kids to do I am sure there will be trouble in the town. Also kids that participate in sports have better self esteem and better confidence about themselves. Isn't this who we want as adults? Also obesity in children is out of control. Organize sports help with this and make them healthy children and adults. Seems like ball fields are pretty important to this town. And putting the vote to a referendum is just crazy. The survey stated that we needed active recreation areas. There was talk in the meeting that we probably wouldn't even be approved to have the referendum added to the ballot because the town has the money. So now are we not only wasting my town tax money but they are wasting my state tax money. I think council should have taken BS up on her deal to go ahead and vote because talking to the public wasn't going to make any difference. Everyone already knew how they were going to vote. I would have been upset that we are spending so much money on av equipment but at least we could start the search for ballfields. I think I could have lived with that. |
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FatPappy Member
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Good points, Hairbrush! It's clear we have the public desire for ballfields an' parks. It's clear we have the means to accomplish these worthy goals. It's also clear BS an' DC don't care what the people have to say about it. Their "Champion of the People" act is a joke. |
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StewartM Member
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WILL DC AND BS VOTE NO FOR SUMMERFIELD KIDS
ITS TIME TO VOTE YES FOR THE CHILDREN OF SUMMERFIELD |
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Lacka Member
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Hairbrush wrote: Maybe if DC and BS would come to some of the events that they have been invited they would know how important ball fields are to the citizens. DC was all worried about the vandalism that might take place on the new summerfield signs, well without something for these kids to do I am sure there will be trouble in the town.Well said HB. |
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FatPappy Member
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Well, looks like Mom's kids are goin' up ag'in Summerfield's kids tomorrow night. Councilmembers, y'all know these young'uns need ballfields. Y'all know the people are for it. Y'all know we have the means. It's time fer some people to stop pretendin' that the question is whether we want ballfields or not. That question's been answered! YES! Time to move on to the next question an' start figgerin' out the details of where an' how we're gonna build it. This ain't no build-it-an'-they-will-come Field o' Dreams. They're already here! So let's build it! Let's build them young'uns somethin' decent that we can all be proud of before they're all older'n Pappy! I wanna feel proud we did what was right, instead o' kowtowin' to the petty naysayers. Please don't let them tangle things up with their spurious arguments an' silly resolutions that have no purpose but to stall an' sidetrack an' waste good people's precious time. The fact that they claim to do it in the name o' the people is particularly offensive to me! |
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Lacka Member
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Well since I don't see Crackah here I will Just go ahead and say it for everyone. Pappy you are our HERO My concern with tomorrow nights meeting is that some council members will have their followers come in to speak against the ballfields. I have witnessed in the past that certain citizens have been prompted as to what to say and when and to say it. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Thank You Lacka! Well Said. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Yes Lacka but hopefully there will be more people saying they want ballfields and maybe there will be some kids there to talk who actually are trying to play on the current fields or have to go out of the community because there isn't room. Hopefully the SRA is taking this very seriously and will come out enmass along with all the others who want the Town to continue with the goal of providing parks ( lets don't forget we need phase 2 of our park finished) and ball fields for those who need them. |
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Lacka Member
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REMINDER
MEETING TONIGHT
SUMMERFIELD SCHOOL CAFETERIA
6:30 P.M.
PLEASE COME IF YOU CAN, SEATS WILL FILL UP EARLY
It is about time for “Mom” to throw out a freedom of information request, wouldn’t that be typical?
Jane I hope all people take the meeting serious. Especially SRA and Park supporters. After the number of voters that we had turn out to vote, I just wonder if people are sitting back with no clue of what goes on in our town. It seems that a lot of people just assume that parks and ball fields will happen. You know when you hear the words Budget Meeting, it really does sound boring. Maybe we should change the name of the meeting to something that sounds like it would be more fun to attend. |
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Waytago Member
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Bravo to Summerfield TC for passing the budget tonight!!!!! Good Job Dena, Bob, and Carolyn in looking to the future. Good Job Mayor Mark for keeping control of the meeting. Mike & Dana, good answers. Dwayne & Becky, good job holding your chairs on the floor, period. (Oh, yeah, Dwayne, nice tie) For those who were unable to attend, tonight was the ultimate in BS and DC trying to muddy the waters & spin total confusion into a process that they are charged with executing in a responsible manner. Disgusting. There was a steady stream of people who spoke in favor of the ballfield expenditure. There were even people without kids who spoke in favor of it. Just overwhelming support........hmmmm, similar to what a recent survey indicated ???? Couple of the CC group got up to say "ballfields Yes, spend tax money No". Gail Dunham tried to over-run her limit, Mark shut her down......good job Mark. Dena made a comment about "if, for example, there were 4 ballfields", Becky tried to twist it around into "who mandated 4 ballfields?". Dena let her have it with both barrels........Good Job Dena. Becky, don't try to twist your fellow TC members words around........very insulting to them, and they're very sharp people, much smarter than you give them credit for. Dwayne came up with half baked ideal about issuing "revenue bonds", he had just discovered it 1/2 hour before. Puts the entire responsibility onto the SRA to pay the bonds over time (I guess all future fundraising would go to pay bonds). Dana Luther (good job Dana) even seemed stunned at the idea of issuing bonds when there is an $8 million lump sitting in the bank. Mark Brown did a great job of politely telling Dwayne what a ridiculous idea it was. Dwayne then says he must watch out for all taxpayers, someone called him whose kid rode dirt bikes instead of playing ball, said if there was going to be ballfields, he wanted a dirt bike trail for his kid. So 1,100 kids playing ball, with 1 kid riding his dirt bike (strange ratio). Becky tried to nail Mike Stewart & Scuba Jane for doing nothing for SRA in their tenure, Dena nailed her. Mike Brandt mentioned there was an attempt to buy land two years ago, which happened to be in Becky's back yard, it got derailed, Becky tried to say the land was designated for a septic line. In Summary, high marks for the audience tonight, all spoke very mannerly to the TC, no serious misbehavior. For the most part, all spokespersons had their thoughts well organized. Same to the TC persons who voted for the future of Summerfield. Bravo !! As for Dwayne & Becky, even when confronted with the obvious, they represent their own interests, not the good of the community. They don't belong................(was BS on one of those flat screens in Men in Black? the old schoolteacher?) Last edited on Jun 23rd, 2006 02:49 am by Waytago |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Summerfield passed their budget with minimal blood shed. A very interesting night tonight. Lots of adults and children who came to express their interest in the town buying ball fields. There were some interesting statitics thrown around such as Pleasant Garden only spend 2% of their budget on parks and recreation but it was not pointed out that they had Hagan Stone park with a multitude of fields, picnic areas, ponds etc for a much, much smaller town than Summerfield. Another Town cited was Greensboro who only spends 10% of their budget on parks and Recs but then they can use the 100 or so school fields in their city. They had to buy their parks at some point and in fact I remember when they bought the bog garden and bicentenial park but interestingly no figures were given for Guilford county which has a huge park and rec system. DC suggested floating a revenue bond and then the SRA could charge each child $25 a month to pay it back. A thousand children x's 12months x%25 dollars =$300,000. I wonder is this on top of the fee's the families already pay for their children to play? And what's wrong with using some of the $8 million that the parents have already paid into. BS got very hostile about where did this idea of ballparks come from. She had never heard anybody mention ballfields until the last few months. Why had the town not been discussing this for years. Pointed to Mike Stewart and me as not having done anything to procure ballfields in our time on council. Where in the world has she been the last 10 years? Oh thats right she's only lived in Summerfield for 3 years. It was pointed out that the Town had tried to buy ballfields actually right behind her house and the neighbors had kept that from happening. Mom rambled on and on not sure about what. Had to be called down several times before she would sit down. Cracker and Laccka I know you must have some comments. what did I miss? |
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Waytago Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Pointed to Mike Stewart and me as not having done anything to procure ballfields in our time on council. Don't worry about it Jane, wish you & Mike were sitting in BS & DC's chairs. BS should have been thanking y'all for doing the groundwork to make it possible. |
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Waytago Member
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Since tonight's excitement was all about ballfields, does anyone know if the park Phase II was included in the budget, or maintenance for phase I? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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thanks Watago. Just thankful we had 3 council members who understood what the people were saying, listened and did the right thing. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: thanks Watago. Just thankful we had 3 council members who understood what the people were saying, listened and did the right thing. Amen & Ditto |
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Starcatchr Member
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Strickland and Crawford are forever saying that they represent ALL the citizens of Summerfield. Where are these people who want a NO vote to everything? The same handful of their supporters show up at every meeting. The talk around town is that people are weary of being told what they don't want. Good job Jane, Mike and all who spoke for the future. And how about Dana...Wow! |
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Hairbrush Member
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Waytogo, I have a copy of the budget and it looks like $12,000 is in for Phase 2 grant request/construction and that there is $42,500 in operating expenses for the park and Summerfield school track. I thought the statement presented by one of the speakers about setting up adult leagues so that everyone could learn teamwork was just great. I am surprised that BS voted against the budget. At the last council meeting she looked out to the crowd and asked who was for an issue and who was against and then voted with the majority. Well there was no doubt what the majority wanted last night. The other funny thing was that there was no discussion about the town truck, which bs and dc seemed to very against. I figured dc would vote for the budget so he could get his av equipment. I tell you what, but that av equipment better be super special for the amount of money I am having to spend on it. We better have the best heard, best recorded council meetings in the state. I take offense to Dwayne pretending that he is trying to speak for all the people. A portion of that money is mine sitting in the bank and I want to spend it for the town. I think a recreation center is a good idea. I also think that buying land with the future in mind is a great idea. Look at how the country park in Greensboro has evolved. It has a dog park and a dirt bike track as well as the small zoo and ponds. Land is only going to get more expensive and scarce so we should buy it while we can and if we can do it on a $0.04 property tax then more power to us. Once again I think if DC and BS really got out in community and met the people (all the people not just the concerned citizens) they would have a better understanding on what this town wants. |
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EditorPS Administrator 
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Unfortunately, it seems to me that the battle will never end. Becky and Dwayne are simply going to always oppose anything that requires spending money (unless of course it's something that they personally want, like AV equipment); they may mask their arguments behind other objections, but the bottom line is, "We don't want to give anything, we don't want anything in return." Actually, though I don't agree with their hardcore and consistent stance on this issue, I respect their right to have their opinions and applaud them for finding such a simplistic way to make decisions on our behalf -- if it has to do with spending money, don't do it, period. No agony over what the people want, or what's best to help us move forward as a town. What I regret most is that they have been elected to represent all of us in Summerfield when in fact the majority do not share their views about "want nothing, get nothing." What I believe I heard last night from most people who spoke was, "We don't just want to live in a country setting and be left alone -- we want to live in a community. We understand that being a part of a community comes with responsbility and we're willing to do our part, pay taxes (obviously, not without limits), volunteer and work together for the bettterment of the community. In turn, we want our elected officials to use wisdom in judgment, and be responsible with our tax dollars while being responsive to our desire for services." They just don't get it, and I'm afraid they never will. That's reflected in their nose-snubbing when it comes to participating in community events like the town's Christmas tree lighting, Founders' Day, volunteer workdays at the community park, etc. And it's apparent in their vote -- they want to be in their elected positions so they can fight for everything we shouldn't do and can't do. That's not leadership, and it's certainly not fair representation. Last edited on Jun 23rd, 2006 12:49 pm by EditorPS |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I was shocked when Dwayne threw in a last minute curve ball about revenue bonds, admitting he just read about it in the past 1/2 hr. The subject has been around for years, the town can easily afford it, the community wants it, and in the last 10 minutes before a vote will be called, Dwayne comes up with a complete directional change that would throw the responsibility for repaying these bonds onto the SRA. Pathetic. Not sure who the lady was that misrepresented coaches being paid, but you'd think people would do their homework up front before making statements like that in front of a group of people, and on public record. Not a way to gain credibility. |
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FatPappy Member
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Thanks Waytago an' Jane fer the great reports! Well said! Pappy is happy! I'm happy about the ballfields fer the young'uns, but I think I'm even happier about what a great bunch o' folks we got around here! Thanks to the fine folks on the council, Mark, Dena, Bob, an' Carolyn! Once ag'in y'all did our town PROUD! Kicked them bullies off the playground! Hee hee! Bond referendum!!!??? Maybe that works in make-believe Dwayne's World-Dwayne's World, but this is Summerfield, son. Do you really think engagin' in yer little personal fantasies is what people want you to be doin' with yer time on the council? Jane an' Mike, you two have done more good for this town before, durin' an' after the election than those two ever have. Pappy's proud o' you both! You had my vote then an' you have it now! Thank goodness more an' more people are startin' to see the pitiful CC bunch fer what they are. They promised fiscal responsibility, but they deliver waste. They promised responsible gover'ment, but they deliver a side show. They promised to listen to the people, but it's only the people recitin' the scripts they themselves wrote that they "hear"! They promised to work fer you, but they don't mean you, they mean them. Reckon ol' Shakespeare nailed 'em, "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing." |
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EditorPS Administrator
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Steve Adkins wrote: Not sure who the lady was that misrepresented coaches being paid, but you'd think people would do their homework up front before making statements like that in front of a group of people, and on public record. Not a way to gain credibility. Perhaps on a minor note, but nevertheless emphasizing the importance of getting the facts straight, she quoted a line from the Dire Straits song as, "Money for Nothing and the Kicks for Free." Come on -- get it right if you're going to quote it -- it's "Chicks for Free." I love Dire Straits! |
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zippitydoodah Member
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I admire Patti for standing up and speaking (even though she didn't originally know what she had signed up for.) Her thoughts were articulated very well and express the desires of many who also have no children but think ball fields are a good thing for kids. I personally would be insulted if Dwayne's proposal was okayed. Parents already pay a fee (although it is low) to be on a team (I don't know exactly how much, so maybe somebody can tell me. When my kid played, it was something like $70 for the season). If you charged all SRA participants $25 a month, that would be $300 a year. What about parents who have 2 or 3 children participating in SRA sports. If I had 3 kids and had to pay $900 per year for them to play ball, unfortunately they wouldn't be playing. Where did that lady get the info about the SRA hiring coaches? You could hear the SRA people snickering because the idea was so crazy. That's not what the SRA is about. Some people just don't get it. Patti says she loves Dire Straits. That's exactly what the town would be in if they did what the CCs were asking for. As Dana pointed out, they'd be bankrupt, depending on the different scenarios presented, between 2019 and 2025. |
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FatPappy Member
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EditorPS wrote:Perhaps on a minor note, but nevertheless emphasizing the importance of getting the facts straight, she quoted a line from the Dire Straits song as, "Money for Nothing and the Kicks for Free." Come on -- get it right if you're going to quote it -- it's "Chicks for Free." Amen, Patti! Pappy loves Dire Straits too! Your comments on community an' responsibility hit the nail on the head! Differin' opinions are OK an' expected, but Dwayne an' Becky, y'all need to stop makin' war an' join the community! You can still disagree, just don't duct tape yer disagreement to a hand grenade. "And we have just one world But we live in different ones... We're fools to make war On our brothers in arms..." |
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Lacka Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Lacka is just sittin back thinking. You know how I get a little quiet sometimes. You will hear from me before the night is over. |
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WB Member
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Hoo boy, are you guys going to hate what I'm going to write but here goes. Ms Strickland and Mr Crawford are TC members. They got the most votes in the last election, theirs' were the campaign signs I saw the most of, they worked hard for it, and they won. So we have to respect the fact that more Summerfield citizens voted for them than anyone else. Just have to accept that fact. That being said, I didn't vote for them and I don't agree with their positions or tactics. But I'm just a lowly citizen and only one vote. However, as a former officer of my employer's Political Action Committee, I can predict that both need to moderate their positions or it will be quite difficult for either of them to win reelection or to possibly get another CC elected. I fully support the need for parks and especially for active recreation areas such as ballfields. I don't feel that this should be looked at as a town expense, but as a necessary capital investment in the community. It is an investment in the facilities that a community such as ours is morally obligated to provide for our families. And it doesn't matter if your family has children or not. This is a necessary investment for the benefit of the entire community which will help preserve and enhance property values. There is a grain of logic in Mr Crawford's idea and proposal regarding revenue bonds. I would go about it in a different manner though. I don't like the idea of drawing down the town's kitty as much as what is going to be required to make these investments. What I would do would be to propose instead of cutting the taxes down to level approved, to raise them back up to 10 cents where they were 2 years ago and use the difference to start bringing the town kitty back up to where it is now. Since the revenue the town gets from Guilford County is determined by how much property tax is levied, this tactic would mean that Guilford County would also be helping in this investment in that we would be getting more of our own money back from the county instead of sending it to Greensboro. Doing this would help us keep our nice financial cushion and avoid having to pay underwriting fees and interest expense. Hope Jane doesn't smack me too hard at the next Parks meeting. |
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SaltyDog Member
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Kudos to the council for doing the right thing. Democracy works. Even though youth sports will have no direct impact on my family I can't think of a better use of town resources than to provide adequate facilities for those activities. The spirit and sense of community that is created at youth sporting events is a very important part of what binds us together and gives us an identity as a town. The core issue that goes way beyond specific projects like ball fields, garbage collection, water systems and the like is this - What kind of town do we want to lve in? I don't want our highest ambition as a town to be a low tax rate. I don't like wars but some things are worth fighting for. I don't like taxes but some things are worth paying for. I want to live in a town that promotes a sense of community by funding projects that enhance the common good. Yes, our resources are limited and we need to use them wisely - in the case of the ball fields I think we did. If you get your kicks from chicks I guess the speaker was correct - Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it You play the guitar on the MTV That ain't workin' that's the way you do it Money for nothin' and your chicks for free Money for nothin' and chicks for free Last edited on Jun 23rd, 2006 08:45 pm by SaltyDog |
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April Member 
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Hagan-Stone Park may be located in Pleasant Garden, but Bur-Mil Park is just 3.5 miles from the Summerfield town hall -- and BOTH Hagan-Stone & Bur-Mil are owned by Guilford County and maintained by Greensboro Parks & Rec. Bur-Mil does have a Greensboro address, but it's practically in Summerfield and Hagan-Stone Park serves more than just those that live in Pleasant Garden, it's also serves those in Climax, Julian, SE Greensboro, and even areas just over the Randolph county line. |
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FatPappy Member
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WB wrote:Ms Strickland and Mr Crawford are TC members. They got the most votes in the last election, theirs' were the campaign signs I saw the most of, they worked hard for it, and they won. So we have to respect the fact that more Summerfield citizens voted for them than anyone else. Just have to accept that fact. I hear what you're sayin', WB. I also accept the fact that I can't breathe underwater, but I can hold my breath an' get by fer a little while. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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WB I do agree that BS and DC got the most votes but I think you have to earn respect. Getting votes does not prove anything except you convinced more people then the other person did to vote for you. There are too many elected officials serving time for me to think getting elected means they automatically deserve respect. I think you earn respect by your good deeds and leadership ability. As far as being a lowly citizen you are a voter and a valuable volunteer in this town which gives you a lot of status in my eyes. I promise not to carry any sharp objects to the parks meeting. |
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April Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Not sure who the lady was that misrepresented coaches being paid, but you'd think people would do their homework up front before making statements like that in front of a group of people, and on public record. Not a way to gain credibility. I didn't attend the meeting last night, but I do know that there is a rumor floating around Guilford county about the SRA considering hiring coaches because some parents would rather watch from the bleachers instead of volunteering to coach a team. If this is not true, then we should be finding out who got the rumor going, where they got the information and get it stopped. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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I just looked on Greensboro's website. I honestly wanted to know the difference between Hagan Stone and Bur-mill. Here's waht it says. Hagan-Stone Park Facilities Camp Joy Activity Center (available on rental basis) Campground (RV, tent and group sites available) Cross-country running courses (5k and 8k) Fishing ponds Horseshoe pits Karate classes Music concerts Nature, hiking and biking trails Picnic shelters Playgrounds Pool (offering public swim, private rental and swimming lessons) Oak Grove Schoolhouse Softball fields Volleyball Bur-Mil Park Facilities Clubhouse-Meeting and Events Center Eight Picnic Shelters Family Aquatic Center (Outdoor Facility) Wildlife Education Center Par 3 Golf Course and Driving Range, instruction available Tennis Courts, instruction available Volleyball Courts and Horseshoe Pits Hiking and Biking Trails No mention of baseball/softball fields. Just like Hagan Stone serves poeple from other towns, so does Bur-mill. People from Oak Ridge, Stokesdale, northwest Greensboro, and other places come there too, not just Summerfield. Bur-mill doesn't help any with the ball field problem as far as I can tell. |
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SaltyDog Member
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Jane - thanks for the response regarding the stipends for council members - sorry it took me so long to read it. The $200 seems reasonable to me. Other expenses beyond the $200 would need to be approved beforehand? Last edited on Jun 23rd, 2006 08:38 pm by SaltyDog |
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WB Member
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There are too many elected officials serving time for me to think getting elected means they automatically deserve respect. I think you earn respect by your good deeds and leadership ability. It's not just elected officials serving time but a whole lot of formerly-respected corporate officials. I was amused to see one of my old acquaintances, Jeff Skilling, get convicted in the Enron trials with his buddy, Ken Lay. Jeff and I were on the same dormitory floor my freshman year in college. Very smart guy, made it to a lofty position, and crashed back to earth all by his lonesome. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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April wrote: If this is not true, then we should be finding out who got the rumor going, where they got the information and get it stopped.SRA members got it stopped last night before the lady even sat down. Nipped it in the bud. |
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Lacka Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: April wrote:Was this the lady who seemed to be a CC that spoke of Sweat Equity and called the balldfields a "Sports Complex"? Sounded a little like her speech was a little of what DC wanted said and a little of what BS wanted said. This the lady you are talking about?If this is not true, then we should be finding out who got the rumor going, where they got the information and get it stopped.SRA members got it stopped last night before the lady even sat down. Nipped it in the bud. |
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Waytago Member
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WB wrote: Jeff and I were on the same dormitory floor my freshman year in college. Very smart guy, made it to a lofty position, and crashed back to earth all by his lonesome. Goes to show there's a difference in intelligence & common sense. Strickland & Crawford might (emphasize might) score high on IQ tests, but their joint common-sense-o-meter is negative from greed. Same holds true for Skilling & Lay.............glad you guys went your separate way after college. |
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Waytago Member
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Lacka wrote: Steve Adkins wrote:Agreed the sweat equity lady was the mouthpiece for Crawford & Strickland........too bad she didn't have the glasses down her nose.April wrote:Was this the lady who seemed to be a CC that spoke of Sweat Equity and called the balldfields a "Sports Complex"? Sounded a little like her speech was a little of what DC wanted said and a little of what BS wanted said. This the lady you are talking about?If this is not true, then we should be finding out who got the rumor going, where they got the information and get it stopped.SRA members got it stopped last night before the lady even sat down. Nipped it in the bud. |
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Lacka Member
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LOL on the glasses Waytogo, glad it wasn't just me who picked up on who wrote that speech. |
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Lacka Member
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Pretty sure that lady's name was Elizabeth, but didn't catch the last name. |
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FatPappy Member
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Waytago wrote:Strickland & Crawford might (emphasize might) score high on IQ tests, but their joint common-sense-o-meter is negative from greed. Pappys new favorite quote I saw on a sign: "A sharp tongue doesn't mean a sharp mind." |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Waytago wrote: Lacka wrote:Steve Adkins wrote:Agreed the sweat equity lady was the mouthpiece for Crawford & Strickland........too bad she didn't have the glasses down her nose.April wrote:Was this the lady who seemed to be a CC that spoke of Sweat Equity and called the balldfields a "Sports Complex"? Sounded a little like her speech was a little of what DC wanted said and a little of what BS wanted said. This the lady you are talking about?If this is not true, then we should be finding out who got the rumor going, where they got the information and get it stopped.SRA members got it stopped last night before the lady even sat down. Nipped it in the bud. I could be wrong, but I didn't really get the impression this lady was with the Concerned Citizens. She does have a good point about sweat equity. And if her impression from whatever source was that the SRA was going from being a strictly volunteer organization to being more of a business, building a sportsplex, running tournaments for money, paying coaches, etc., that might explain her not wanting to spend tax money on the ball fields. Also, although SRA members may have nipped the notion of paying coaches in the bud with the council, I'm not sure they did with her. I could be totally wrong. I don't know her -- I'm just presenting a different perspective. Last edited on Jun 23rd, 2006 11:43 pm by S. Smith |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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The sweat equity lady is Elizabeth Edmundson who lives over on White Blossom. She has been one of the eloquent speakers who comes before the Town Council to protect her neighborhood. I was really surprised at her position on the ball fields. |
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Lacka Member
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Sandra I thought that she had many of the same views as BS and DC. She even used their words. I felt like he (DC) had written half of the speech and she (BS) had written the other half. It seemed odd to me that someone appeared that none of us have ever seen before at a meeting or otherwise and then almost quoted BS and DC word for word. I know the paper is a great source for information, but some of what she was saying had to make you go huuummmm? |
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FatPappy Member
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SaltyDog wrote:The core issue that goes way beyond specific projects like ball fields, garbage collection, water systems and the like is this - What kind of town do we want to lve in? I don't want our highest ambition as a town to be a low tax rate. You got that right, Salty. It's the difference between knowin' the price o' somethin' an' knowin' the value o' somethin'. |
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Lacka Member
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Yall know it is not a good thing for me to sit back and be quiet. Becky tried the angle that we are paying for ball fields for other towns. She started asking questions about percentages of actual Summerfield players, how many come from GSO, Stokesdale, etc. First of all there are many houses that are addressed Greensboro that are actually in the Town of Summerfield. Sorry Becky don't know the percentages, but if you added up your numbers based on a mailing list they would be inaccurate. The numbers will be skewed because of the off season participation as well. Thanks for clearing up the off season numbers, Bonnie. And you know it is all about the "list" that you choose to use. Voter registration vs. land owners, whatever. Talk about sweat equity and learning from our kids. I do believe that children have pride when they work for something and those of you who do know me know that my children know what sweat equity is. My children know things are not handed to them and that they are to set goals for themselves and that they are expected to try to achieve them. If they don't achieve them they benefit from what they have learned on that journey. Which means it was worth it. I certainly do not expect an elected official to tell me what I need to teach my children. Guys that is not your job to mind our personal business. After the story about Corbin, and kids I don't even know it leads me to believe that the other parents out there are teaching their kids about sweat equity without the help of the TC. Ball fields are where they go to play after they have been good little citizens. Last edited on Jun 24th, 2006 01:38 am by Lacka |
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Hairbrush Member
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Well said Lacka. |
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Lacka Member
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Thank you HB, I know it was a long post, but I just got started and well....... |
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FatPappy Member
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Home run, Lacka! Well said! |
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Starcatchr Member
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Wow, Lacka!!! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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April, Since Cracker Jax is not on here to do her unofficial duties, I wanted to say welcome to the forum. I see you're new, and hope you'll continue to post. We're glad to see different points of view on here, although it's obvious that our participants often have strong opinions. Feel free to jump in on any of our threads. |
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EditorPS Administrator
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April wrote: I didn't attend the meeting last night, but I do know that there is a rumor floating around Guilford county about the SRA considering hiring coaches because some parents would rather watch from the bleachers instead of volunteering to coach a team. If this is not true, then we should be finding out who got the rumor going, where they got the information and get it stopped. Good morning April, I also want to welcome you to our forum! As a follow-up to your comments above, I emailed Joe Plante last evening. You may know Joe, and if not, he has been a longtime and very active member of the SRA, a former SRA president, and someone I respect very highly for both his integrity and his commitment to the kids of Summerfield. Here's what he had to say regarding the rumor about the SRA paying their coaches:
I will be happy to check into this further, as I realize that, rumor or not, this could taint a lot of people's view about the town commiting funds to purchase and develop land for ball fields. I also realize that rumors are very powerful, and spread much quicker than truth. As for who started the rumor and how it continued to spread, I'm not sure that I'll be able to find that out -- usually rumors start because one person innocently extracts a portion of information, unknowingly confuses facts and then passes it along. The result can be as deadly as a wildfire. |
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Lacka Member
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April wrote: April I am one of the "some parents" I would much rather watch the game from the bleachers. Guilty as charged. I am not qualified to coach a team. Well not a winning team anyway. I did years ago help coach a t-ball team, and I have been the helment mom many seasons and have even been known to play the part of the bat boy. I have chillied many hotdogs and popped lots of popcorn. However I do not think I am qualified to coach a team. My Husband does coach a softball team and dedicates many hours to his team. The coaches that I have seen with SRA, are volunteers that are dedicated to our children. They obviously do not do this for the pay. It is the love of baseball and the kids. Last year there was a first base coach for one of the teams that I never heard say a negative word to a child. Didn't matter if the kid was out or safe, didn't matter if they had a god hit, didn't matter if they had a bad "at bat". He never failed. When that child got to first base he had a reason to want to make it to second. He wanted Coach Palmer to be proud of him. You can't pay a coach to make a kid feel that way. I would much rather have volunteers than paid coaches. It is the difference of being there because you have to vs wanting to be there. Patti thanks for getting with Mr. Plante and clearing up the rumor. |
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Lacka Member
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zippitydoodah wrote:
Zip it is about 100.00 per sport not per year (you didn't confuse that I just wanted to clarify for others) for a kid to just sign up. That is no other frills. OK the kid is pretty much half naked at the 100.00 point. He doesn't have shoes, pants, team colored socks, (must have more than 1 pair, the dryer gets hungry) a cup, or a bat. Sometimes they need a helment. Hopefully he will still be able to use his bat from last season. That will save us 100.00-200.00. I don't know about all sports, but that is what I understand was payed recently for summer baseball. There are three baseball seasons. Spring, Fall and Summer. Don't know about Basketball, or Cheerleading or any of that stuff. At one time I had 4 kids playing at one time. Thank goodness they found other stuff to do. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Lacka, It sounds like there is more expense involved with boys than girls. For the girls, they pay the sign-up fee and for that they get a team T-shirt. They wear whatever shorts/pants and socks they want. In fact, Summerfield teams (the older girls at least) sometimes try to use as much imagination in putting their uniforms together as possible. They might have red team jerseys and one girl might have on green shorts and yellow socks and another might wear tie-dyed pink shorts and blue socks. Sometimes they even wear two different colored socks. Back to expenses, girls have to have some shoes to wear. I've seen some wear tennis shoes, but probably 95% purchase their own cleats. They also need a glove, which can cost anywhere from probably $25-30 at WalMart to probably $200 for the really serious player. You're right about bats -- they can be quite pricey and kids do outgrow them. Again though, we're talking in the $30-40 range at WalMart to about $300 for a really incredible softball bat (this is for teenagers who are serious about softball and they'd be able to use this bat for years and years). You do not have to have your own bat -- they are supplied by the team, as are helmets, although many girls purchase their own and often "decorate" them. So if you really wanted to get "down and dirty," a girl could participate in softball for whatever the SRA fee is (I'm guessing $70 to $100) and the price of a glove ($25-30 minimum). I guess what I'm getting at is that it can be very affordable, especially compared to other activities, if you really want to get out for as little money as possible. As one of the SRA people said the other night, although not many people request it, it is possible to get them to waive the fee if you aren't able to pay it, making it available to anyone who wants to play. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Sandra -- SRA doesn't make money on those fees. I have got the impression from some council members that they think SRA has tons of money. Those youth assns pretty much operate on a shoestring bugdet. For what they get from every kid for a sign-up fee, they supply a team jersey. Then they have to pay umps, and buy team equipment like bats, balls, helmets, catcher's equipment. They buy stuff to line the fields and take care of the fields (drag them before the day's games, fill in holes and stuff like that). Somebody has to mow the fields (I don't know if they have their own equipment for that or they pay somebody or if its a volunteer job). They have to buy and repair fences, lights, dugouts, bathrooms, concession stands, bleachers, bases, etc. etc. Theirs probably lots of other stuff I didn't even think about. After all that, IF there's any money left over, it goes to back into the program. Yea, you can make some money on concessions and running tournements, but it doesn't compare to what it takes to run a first rate program. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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April wrote: Not everybody can coach. If you had 12-14 kids on a team, you don't want that many coachs. But there is still lots to do. Somebody has to set up schedules, drag the fields and line them, run the concession stand (including mopping the water out cause it flooded), clean the bathrooms. Sometimes they need somebody to help at practice, coach a base during a game, keep score, or be helmet mom or keep the little kids lined up because they can't remember who they bat after. If you're not the athletic type, you can organise bringing team drinks or type the team roster or set up a phone tree so the coach doesn't have to call every kid on the team if a game or practice is rained out or cancelled...... Even though some parents don't do anything, MOST of them do SOMETHING and if nothing else, they show up at games and give the kids morale support....... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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S. Smith wrote: April, Since Cracker Jax is not on here to do her unofficial duties, I wanted to say welcome to the forum. I see you're new, and hope you'll continue to post. We're glad to see different points of view on here, although it's obvious that our participants often have strong opinions. Feel free to jump in on any of our threads. Thanks Sandra! Sorry it's taken me so long to do this April. I was on Safari and it's taking me a while to get caught up WELCOME to the forum April!
Glad you are taking advantage of gathering information from a variety of sources. We (the forum participants) appreciate all opinions and realize that we can all learn from one another. Keep posting! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I'd like to thank everyone for the PM's and posts that kept me updated while I was out of commission. I appreciate the time it took to post so many details. It was almost like being there!!! I heard that EditorPS "rocked the house" with her speech at council as did StewartM several others. Thanks to all of you who spoke out for our community and our children. Most of all, I'd like to thank the 3 council members (Dena Barnes, Bob Williams, and Carolyn Collins) who continually vote in favor of Summerfield. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I see what I've been missing. Lightning took out the cable Fri night, just got it repaired awhile ago. Lacka - If you wanted an OT sign, sorry I gotta disappoint you, I think an AMEN sign would be more appropriate. Great words......and all from your heart !! Kudos to all those who spoke, Patti took the words out of my mouth, then Mike Stewart did it again, I didn't say it there, but will say it here.......my kids are grown, my family won't benefit from these ballfields, but I will GLADLY pay the taxes for them, and think there's no better investment for our youth. It's the right thing to do. Dwayne & Becky have brought up "vandalism" in the past......seems like if youth are busy playing organized sports, they have less time to get into mischief. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Hello to all, Just got back from vacation in Florida. I got about 20 phone calls Thursday night letting me know what was going on at the "public hearing". Just need to set one thing straight about SRA. We are a non profit organization. We are a all volunteer group and this means coaches are not paid! We do pay umpires and for all the upkeep of the Guilford County School's property we use. Any capital upgrades we do to this property becomes Guilford Countys own. SRA does not own anything! SRA does not have the revenue to purchase land in Summerfield, only enough to maintain our current facility that is owned by Guilford County Schools. Thanks to the TC members who did the right thing. Thanks to the speakers who spoke on my behalf. I wished I could have made the meeting but, I was with my family vacationing. |
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FatPappy Member
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Not to change the subject, an' I know this has been brought up before, but I surely wish there was somethin' could be done about the ol' Food Lion buildin' on 220. It's just such a eyesore an' such wasted space. (Some would say both them complaints could apply to me, too.) Anyway...I got no idees, money, or authority with which to accomplish anything constructive, so I'll content myself to audaciously whine out loud about somebody else's private property. We now return to our reg'lar forum activities, already in progress... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Thanks for that public service announcement Pappy! I agree. The old Food Lion building is U-G-L-Y. (I do LOVE shopping at the Dollar General though) The owner has quite a reputation for owning "slum" property I've heard. Not sure what can be done about it. Last edited on Jun 28th, 2006 03:20 pm by Cracker Jax |
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Lacka Member
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Wonder if the guy would sell the property? Wouldn't it be nice to have a library, or a bookstore/coffee shop in that space? |
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Waytago Member
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Put in a donut shop..........it could double as the sheriff's substation......ooh, bad comment. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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ooh, funny comment! |
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macca Member
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??? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Of course you are correct macca. Back to SF town council related posts. It was funny though. |
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macca Member
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I'm REALLY sorry to do that, but we just kept getting further away from the original topic.... Just looking out for everyone!!!♥♥♥ |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Thanks for being the "police" here macca -- and we didn't even have to entice you here with a doughnut. From what I understand, the Summerfield Town Council has no authority to do anything with the old Food Lion building. The landlord would be willing to rent it out. The idea of a substation there might not be that farfetched, but it would take somebody bringing it up before the town council and getting them on board. I'm not sure, but I think I have heard rumors, maybe something about the water there, so I don't know if they'd have the capacity to have that many officers there or not. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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macca wrote: Good Job Macca I'll recommend you for SMM status !! text_editor.focus(); |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: From what I understand, the Summerfield Town Council has no authority to do anything with the old Food Lion building. The landlord would be willing to rent it out. Sandra, help me understand what you're saying above. If the Town Council has no authority, how would it do any good to bring the subject before them? Would it be to convince the TC to pay rent for the substation? Sorry I'm having a Senior Moment, not following you. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Sorry if I'm not making sense here. What I meant is the council has no authority to make the property owner clean up or improve the old Food Lion building. But if citizens really want a sheriff's dept. office in the town (whether in that building or somewhere else), I think they should bring it up to the council. Let me know if I'm still not making sense. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I just got home from my Safari today so wanted to comment ont the Old Food Lion building. First problem is the sptic system which I understand was always a problem but the building is in Greensboro's critical watershed so has very strict restrictions. I have also seen much water standing behind the building where I think the septic system is suppose to be so wonder if there are more problems. I worry about mosquitos breeding in all that water too. There is really nothing terribly major the town can do except make him keep it in fair repair outside. A lot of this owners properties end up looking this bad or worse. I think Dr. Brown, BCN and all those folks have stayed after the owner to keep the place in as good a shape as it is. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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DOGGETTJA wrote: I just got home from my Safari today so wanted to comment ont the Old Food Lion building. First problem is the sptic system which I understand was always a problem but the building is in Greensboro's critical watershed so has very strict restrictions. I have also seen much water standing behind the building where I think the septic system is suppose to be so wonder if there are more problems. I worry about mosquitos breeding in all that water too. Thanks for the explanation, Jane. Now that I think about it, I believe I did hear about possible septic issues (not water, as I said earlier). It seems to me like this would be a good location for a substation. It would be really close to the Dollar General (which seems to get robbed at least once a year), as well as the banks and other commercial stuff there on 220. It would still be in the center of the district. I don't know whether the septic issues could be overcome or not, but the main question might actually be whether the building owner would be willing to pay for them. Without a tenant, why would he bother? And until it's fixed, how can he get a tenant? Kind of a "Catch 22" situation, isn't it? On top of that, the idea for a substation would be that little or no rent would be paid, so I doubt the owner would pay to fix it up for little/no rent and I also doubt the county would pay. |
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FatPappy Member
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Anything special comin' up at the next TC meetin'? I looked on the town website, but I never can find much current info on that thing. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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One item that will be coming up for discussion is Turkey Shoots. Should there be any kind of restrictions on whether or not they are allowed? There has been a Turkey Shoot over on Winfree Road for many, many years (Jane may know more about this, since she lives fairly close "as the crow flies.") Neighbors have notified the town about the noise, traffic, etc. generated. What do you guys think? |
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FatPappy Member
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I think it depends on which turkey we're gonna shoot. Kidding! Thanks, Sandra. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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You mean they shoot turkeys over their? Isn't turkey hunting allowed anyway? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Turkey shootin' is part of country livin' isn't it??? Rural charm and all that??? I haven't heard the complaints of the neighbors, and I usually like to hear both sides, before I shoot my mouth off, but if they aren't hurting anything and folks who participate enjoy it and have enjoyed it for years, perhaps a compromise could be reached instead of shutting them down..... Last edited on Jul 10th, 2006 04:04 pm by Cracker Jax |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Cracker- If you live next door to a turkey shoot it isn't that simple unfortunately. The turnkey shoot in question is down at the end of Winfree rd and has gone on probably 25 years. From the first of September until Decemember on Friday and Saturday nights we are pretty much prisoners in our houses as it sounds as if a war is going on. Same thing on Saturday mornings with Shane's gun club. We live about the same distance from both places. The interest in the turkey shoot has waned some thanks probably to the neighbors on Winfree Rd who are tired of the beer cans , squealing tires and people driving through their yards so hired an off duty sheriff to police the area and put in speed bumps to slow the traffic down. I live through the woods so don't have to deal with the traffic and drunks issue just the noise which is enough. Not sure what the answer is but I will have to say I would not be the least bit upset if the Turkey shoot went away. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Well Jane... I had no idea that it went on for months! I figured it was a one weekend thing. I knew there had to be another side to that story. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Last edited on Jul 12th, 2006 01:09 am by Cracker Jax |
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FatPappy Member
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Crackah, you bad. Where was Mom tonight? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I'm in MX this week, can somebody write a summary que paso con la TC meeting? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Steve- I probably won't do as good a job as some of the others but here goes. Of important note was the meeting was over shortly before 9. There were no rezonings. The item that generated the most interest was the regulating of Turkey shoots. I got "point of Ordered" by BS for speaking from the audience but the town council was discussing with Robin writing an ordinance regulating turkey shoots. There were probably 25 people there who had an opinion and I suggested to the mayor that maybe it would be nice to listen to what the folks had to say about the turkey shoot we have in Summerfield so they would know what the problems were. It really struck me as funny after 2 years of sitting through constant interruptions during town council meetings that I would get a "point of order" thrown at me by the vice president of the cc. Interesting how things change isn't it. There were three changes in the devlopement ordinance which all passed and made good sense I think. Michael had a bunch of items to go over. The last item concerned the the sdoption of an ordinance stipulating expense approval for the operation of the Town of Summerfiedl for the year 2006- 2007. BS was unhappy that she had been on the council for 6 months and she had never heard of this ordinance which DC pointed out had been started when Bill Peterson was mayor. It allows for emergency spending by the mayor and Town adminsitrator which as was pointed out had only been used 2 times in recent memory. Once this year when a contract on the park had not been signed to get the grass cut and once several years ago when the hot water heater gave up the ghost and had to be replaced quickly. Both times the council was advised immediately. BS accused Dena of spending $1000 for ernest money on a land purchase but Dena quickly pointed out that she had the approval of all the council when she signed that check so it did not come under this ordinance. After much discussion it passed. BS voted against the 401K resolution and the enrollment of Summerfield in the state program. I can't imagine why and she didn't say. The council did approve sending out the RFP for the comprehensive plan which is a good thing. There were several personnel issue to do with the personnel policy but probably more interesting to me because I helped write the policy so enjoyed watching is evovlem Steve hope that gives some idea of what went on. Hey you all that were there what else did I miss? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Jane, I wanted to be there, and in my heart I was. I have discussed the meeting with a couple of folks who did attend.... They say it was a relatively tame meeting and other than the folks wanting to speak on the Turkey Shoot issue there weren't many folks there. Anyway, Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything. Mom was not there, which is probably why the meeting was quick and tame. Heard about when BS tattletaled on you for being out of order. She just can't stand when you speak... about anything. Jealous I'm thinking. I just hope all those turkey shoot people (on both sides) were listening when you tried to take up for them and get them a chance to speak. Funny thing is, I don't remember BS ever "point of order-ing" MOM. Dwayne rambled on and on about semantics on several issues. It was painful. You gotta work on that Dwayne. You've researched most issues before you get in the chair, so perhaps you could write out what you want to say instead of playing word games. Sometimes you have a good point to make (ex. ordinances pertaining to safety and junk vehicle definitions) but we've forgotten it before you get to it. OH OH OH!!!! Michael Brandt's contract! BS wanted HIM to pay to have the lawyers draw it up instead of the town paying for it!!!! I can't even believe that. Is that normal? Be Strong Michael!!! Don't let them wear you down!!! One other thing... there was a guy there taking photos and interviewing folks who were leaving the council meeting. A friend thinks he was from the News and Record. Boy did they pick a pitiful meeting to start attending! The N&R guy did capture one photo for the books though... The council was voting on whether or not to hire Clean and Green Inc. to maintain the grounds at the park and it passed with a unanimous vote. The guy snapped the picture right when all 5 hands went up. I doubt he has a clue how rare that photo will be......
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StewartM Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Amen....most the night was 4-1 |
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Hairbrush Member
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I don't understand why BS wanted to vote against the town joining the 401(k) state plan. Did she not have retirement benefits when she was working? She certainly seems to have out against Michael and I thought she was rude and nasty about the personnel changes. She mentioned that she had been to the secretary of state's webpage to check whether the company handling the lawn care at the park had filed their annual report. I guess the town is now the IRS. I wonder where I could find information on the non-profit organization "Concerned Citizens" for which BS is the registered agent. Have they filed their necessary reports? |
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FatPappy Member
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I understand that fine upstandin' feller, George Holub, said the park playground was goin' to be open real soon (within a week?) an' the main openin' o' the rest o' the park will be around August 1. Pappy thinks we are so lucky to have such a capable volunteer to he'p us out. Thanks ag'in, George! Thanks also to Michael Brandt and Robin Smith who sometimes put up with a lot in order to do their jobs. We appreciate you both! |
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FatPappy Member
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Crackah, that contract thang for Michael is confusin' to ol' Pappy. BS wanted him to pay the lawyer fer drawin' up the contract fer his employment with the town? I would have never thought of that, but then I'm not a big time lawyer like she is. Actually she's not a big time lawyer like she is either. Isn't that kind of thing what we have a lawyer for? Wouldn't our town lawyer still have to spend time lookin' over the contract anyway? Would it save that much money? Make it more complicated, make it more expensive, make it take longer, make it more contentious, an' finally end up where it would have been anyway after her mischief fails. Is that really what the people want their "champion" to spend her elected time doin'? Opposin' views are fine, just let 'em make sense an' have some purpose other than bein' opposite. |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
I thought only sensible pumps were allowed at that end o' the table! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Okay you guys -- play nice. Don't make me have to come over there! (I can't give you an Off Topic since you're technically not, but let's flame ideas, not people -- or their shoes. Besides, in my opinion, a woman can never have too many shoes.... oops, Off Topic for me!) |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Thank you Sandra for reigning me in. However, in my defense I said the shoes were NICE!!!!! I liked the outfit! I really did!! I wish I had pink shoes. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Interesting development about the photographer guy who snapped that "rare photo" of the unanimous vote last night.
Seems he told some folks that he was freelancing for the News and Record, and he told others he was snapping photos for the NWO. At least that's what they remember him saying. He was also talking to folks in the parking lot as they left the meeting and taking notes. Do you think we've made the big time and are now attracting the paparazzi??? Wonder who he was? Keep an eye out for those photos! |
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clewis1116 Member
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Here's the story. He shoots freelance assignments , like sports and happening news for the News and Record, and he is now shooting some for the NWObserver. Last night was for the NWO , this evening he is shooting the Greensboro Dynamos Soccer game for the N&R. Let me introduce him, his name is Christian Lewis . Christian is a professional photographer who shoots weddings , portraits, and special events, as well as shooting custom motorcycles for certain National Chopper Magazines, and shoots Classic Cars and Hot Rods for another magazine. He is also one of the team photographers for the Grasshoppers and the GSO Revolution football team. I can intruduce him, because I know him well, for he is me. Last edited on Jul 12th, 2006 04:29 pm by clewis1116 |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Welcome to the forum clewis!!! Hope you aren't offended that I called you the paparazzi!
Thanks so much for clearing up that mystery for me! Glad to hear you shot that "rare" photo for the NWO!!! |
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clewis1116 Member
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No problem, and thanks for the welcome. If only I could make the money of a paparrazzi ! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I think you have to climb fences and stuff to make that kind of $$$ CLewis! Feel free to drop in any ol' time and hang out with the "regular people"!!! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Thanks Jane for summarizing the meeting. Amazing as usual. And thanks to clewis for joining us, and clarifying some of the questions about his activities the other night. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Where has the love gone? Why does BS lash out at others? Jane was only being suggestive. Also, Why cut on Dena about wrighting a check in the past only to be corrected that it was legitamate and all involved knew about it? Is an apology not in order? This has to stop! Town Council Meetings are not the place to talk about differances you have with other council members or a place to publically chastise one another, it is a place to carry on the towns business. If there are personal problems they need to be taken care of in closed session and not go on record so not to look like fools. Take some notes from the Guilford County Commisioners, they are a laughing stock. Is this what Summerfield has come to? Shame Shame! |
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FatPappy Member
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Good points, BB! It is a shame! Knowin' that we can't vote them out fer another 3 1/2 years really emphasizes how valuable a well-informed vote is. |
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DToney Member 
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even tho y'all cannot vote them out for over 3 years... don't mean that you cannot rebut them when they foul... That is part of democracy. Unless they need a social studies lesson... they should know that they are supposed to represent their constituants - not their own personal views... their opinions are supposed to be a part of what make the decisions for the community... not the sole deciding factor! reign them in every chance you get or they will cause more trouble for the community than they are worth.... |
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macca Member
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Well-said, DToney! (Although it sounds to me as though they've already exceeded that part about causin' more trouble than they're worth!) |
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DToney Member
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I considered that even b4 I said it... but thought I'd let someone else chime in on that one! |
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FatPappy Member
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Y'all make sense. I just meant that informed votin' and uninformed votin' are two different thangs an' likely to bring about widely varyin' levels o' satisfaction. Three years can seem like a long time or a short time, dependin' on how good a choice was made at the pollin' place. Like my man Thomas Jefferson said, "Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government;... whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights." Well, thangs have done attracted our notice, Mr. Tom, an' I reckon we'll work on settin' 'em aright. |
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FatPappy Member
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(Pssst...we don't want thangs to get too quiet in Summerfield. Our new forum buddy clewis1116 would have to find a new fishin' hole.) |
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clewis1116 Member
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It was so quiet in Summerfield today, that I did have to find another spot to fish , as it were. Found myself in Stokesdale shooting an All-Star baseball game between Stokesdale and Oakridge. But it was really too hot to fish much. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: (Pssst...we don't want thangs to get too quiet in Summerfield. Our new forum buddy clewis1116 would have to find a new fishin' hole.) You know Pappy, my kids don't listen to me until I start whisperin' either!!! Hang in there Clewis! Summerfield doesn't stay quiet anymore. We got 3 1/2 more years of excitement comin' our way!!! If it's fishin' you're into, we got some Big Mouth Bass that really need reelin' in over here!!! |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Hee hee! They do tricks when there's cameras around, too! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Cracker Jax wrote: I got really excited when I read this, Cracker. I was gonna volunteer my services and head on over with my fishing rod. Then I realized you weren't probably weren't talking about the kind of "Big Mouths" that are swimming around in Lake Higgins. |
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DToney Member
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hehehehe!! LOL... y'all crack me up! Last edited on Jul 16th, 2006 01:29 pm by DToney |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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What kind of bait is needed to pull that one up on the bank? I'm ready to fillet it. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Get back on topic y'all Last edited on Jul 19th, 2006 12:53 am by Steve Adkins |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Things are awfully quiet in Summerfield. Makes me kinda nervous. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Maybe everybody is happy for a change. I've been reading about this turkey shoot thing. That NWO article explained a lot, but I'm not sure yet how I feel. What do y'all think?? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Zippity- I was quoted in the newspaper so to expand on my feelings a little. My major issue is the noise. After 30 years? of 4 + months every year of gunshots every Friday and Saturday night I would like to see some sort of relief. I know the wild life clubdoes good things and I also know it is easy to sign a petition for something if it is not affecting you every single week end from mid August until the week end before Christimas. The first thing allthough another turkey shoot in Summerfield due to the population is highly unlikely I would like for the ordinance to change so that the people in the neighborhoods surrounding it could have some input. I would also like some sort of restrictions on how many months and how often in the month they can be held. I know some week ends at the wildlife club now there can't be more than 2 or 3 people shooting and then other weekends there are a lot more but the fact is the noise of gunshots if the same. Bang then 5 minutes bang then 5 minutes bang until 10 oclock at night. Makes sitting outside on the porch very unpleasant. Last edited on Jul 23rd, 2006 01:48 pm by DOGGETTJA |
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FatPappy Member
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I understand the concerns of the folks who have to listen to all that gun blastin' at the turkey shoot. On the other hand, I'd hate to see somethin' that's been goin' on fer 30 yars shut down. I ain't got no good answer, but would hope some kind o' compromise can be reached. |
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DToney Member
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I see both sides... 30 YEARS is a long time tradition for most folks! We love our right to bear arms and shoot just like anyone... Unless you own lots of land in the country... it's hard to find anywhere you can even target practice. Also, anything excessive can get old quick. |
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ff12 Member
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I know I do not live nearby, and I have only patronized the shoot once, so maybe i dont have a dog in this fight but its only one nite a week for a few months. i can hear 311 Motor Speedway from my house on Sat. nights for 5 mos. Call me crazy but i kind of enjoy it. With all the other things going on in SF, don't yall have enough to fight about already. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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FF12 It is Friday and Saturday nights from middle of August until week end before Christmas. can't say as I enjoy the noise every single week end all fall. You are right it is not earth shattering but just a nuisance ( that's not spelled right?) |
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StewartM Member
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ff12 wrote: I know I do not live nearby, and I have only patronized the shoot once, so maybe i dont have a dog in this fight but its only one nite a week for a few months. i can hear 311 Motor Speedway from my house on Sat. nights for 5 mos. Call me crazy but i kind of enjoy it. With all the other things going on in SF, don't yall have enough to fight about already.We don't fight....we love our neigbors....Just come on down to our Town Council meeting Tuesday night and watch all us TURKEYS..... |
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macca Member
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Last edited on Aug 1st, 2006 06:58 am by macca |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Ahem............... |
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Steve Adkins Member
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StewartM wrote: ....Just come on down to our Town Council meeting Tuesday night and watch all us TURKEYS..... Ahem........... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Where does it say in the laws that elected officials get to be rude and down right hostile towards their consituency? I thought the lack of politeness on the part of BS tonight towards the speakers especially Paul Milam was embarassing. Several people who had never come to a council meeting asked me if this was the way the Town normally conducted their business. |
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macca Member
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I'm curious, Jane. How did you respond to that question? |
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DToney Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Where does it say in the laws that elected officials get to be rude and down right hostile towards their consituency? I thought the lack of politeness on the part of BS tonight towards the speakers especially Paul Milam was embarassing. Several people who had never come to a council meeting asked me if this was the way the Town normally conducted their business. Maybe someone should have given him the "Ahem..............." Last edited on Aug 2nd, 2006 02:56 am by DToney |
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StewartM Member
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The meeting last night left a lot of people in the dark.........It looks like turkey was no big deal for anyone..... |
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FatPappy Member
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Value of ever'body else's opinion: Two cents. Value of Dwayne's opinion: Twelve-hundred dollars and no sense. Value of seein' our duly elected town representative make a fool of himself in public again...priceless! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Just don't understand the problem with the tax payers of Summerfield coming together, pooling their money to achieve goals that the majority vote on? DC seems to feel that it is the down fall of our country. While DC gift? of $1200 to make a point was admirable he basically just gave back his salary that he had just voted him self. I do find it interesting that the Town can not spend $250 on Christmas cards to send to volunteers but is now paying a $1,000 a month to the council for a job that has traditionally been a volunteer non paid job. I have no problem with paying the council but the council are not the only people working in this town and an occasional pat on the back to volunteers in the form of some sort of recognition should be a good thing. Christmas cards seem to be a nice way to do it but now DC is going to pay for that also. I thought Mark did an excellent job of controlling the meeting at one point when it almost collapsed into chaos. He showed real signs of leadership. |
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Hairbrush Member
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So do I have it right? BS and DC want everything done in the town by volunteers, but it is a waste of money to show appreciation to these people. I guess that is why they can't be bother to attend things like a volunteer appreciation dinner. I wonder if they will manage to show up and support the wonderful park that the town now has that was not only built with tax payers money but with the hard work, sweat and tears of many volunteers. |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree, Jane. We've already taken up a collection an' decided what to do with the money. Taxes. I reckon the SRA will gladly take Dwayne's money, but I doubt they'll accept his explanation that he's tryin' to do somethin' good. You're makin' what kind o' gesture, Dwayne? That's right, a POLITICAL gesture. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Dwayne's whole problem with SRA is he thinks they are looking for a hand out and that is not so! The Town approched SRA not the other way around. SRA was asked what would you like to see done with taxpayers money and asked for a "wish list". SRA is a non profit organization and now DC attempt to make them look bad by saying they tried to take proceeds from another organization was a down right lie. SRA is not looking for a hand out , DC and anyone else who thinks so. SRA always and always will depend on volunteers and seek sponsorship from the area businesses. As far as the lights go SRA recieved donations as a partial cost and made payments on the balance. Dwayne only gave part of the story. I admire DC for giving a check to the Town of Summerfield for $1200 but that was what he just voted to pay himself also was it not? Now, the truck issue. Why did it take so long to get this truck passed? The cost of this truck per month is a whole lot less than the cost of the raise in pay DC and BS voted in favor of, by the way that was the only thing DC and BS agreed on with the other side of the table. Where has the love gone. I was embarrassed by the way BS lashed out at Paul M. Seems to me all he was doing was at no cost to the Town. Yes he is a "developer" but looks to me like he was trying to help. Is this the way we treat someone wanting to help or do something that will be useful in the future?  |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree BB. Well said. I was proud of how Mayor Brown took control of the situation. I also like Bill Hill's forceful yet decent approach. Well done, y'all. Keep it up. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Mark did a great job getting control! Bill was proper and to the point. Afterwards Mom told Bill he was rude, guess it takes one to know one. Mom always disrupts every meeting she attends either by speeking out, clapping, or handing out hate propaganda. She complains about spending money for Bill's council when alot of his time is tied up answering letters and questions she is sending. This is nothing but terrorizm and needs to stop. She cornered me one day and started in about differant issues. I was pokeing fun at her and it seemed to add fuel to the fire. She made several statements without knowledge or point to her discussion. She was not capable of carring on a civil conversation with me without getting upset and talking over me. She proceeded to tell me about all the great things she has done in the past where she came from. All I ask is please go back and do great things there again. |
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macca Member
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Is Bill Hill the Town Attorney? |
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StewartM Member
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SRA = Summerfield citizens helping our Summerfield kids...Not some power money hungry group...Open your eyes DC |
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StewartM Member
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macca wrote: Is Bill Hill the Town Attorney?YES.....thats correct...you and a guest win a free trip with meals to the Summerfield Community Park celebration on September 9...... |
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macca Member
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Is September 9 the official opening of the park? |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Yes Sept 9th, Come out and have a Hotdog that didn't cost the taxpayers a dime. It was donated and will be cooked by a volunteer. |
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macca Member
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StewartM wrote:macca wrote:Is Bill Hill the Town Attorney?YES.....thats correct...you and a guest win a free trip with meals to the Summerfield Community Park celebration on September 9...... macca wrote: Is September 9 the official opening of the park? Baseball Buddy wrote: Yes Sept 9th, Woo Hoo! Sounds great! Looking forward to joining in the celebration of such a wonderful occasion!!! ♥♥♥ |
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FatPappy Member
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Yes, Bill Hill is the town attorney. He is a good fit for our situation. I agree BB. It is terrorism plain an' simple, but I think we are seein' more each time how the people are understandin' that we have power too. Legitimate power, not bluster or twisted facts. We are movin' on an' are buildin' momentum ever' day. BS an' DC an' their pitiful outfit are becomin' more of a joke an' a embarrasment rather than any kind o' legitimate opposition. Dwayne strangely yet proudly procalims he has never said anything as a councilman that he regrets or feels the need to apologize for. In some ways I agree. He should in fact be proud of the good all his backfirin' antics have unintentionally done for the town. We might have had a much harder time gettin' our views across without his h'ep. 'Preciate that he'p. 'Preciate that money, too. I reckon he showed us! |
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FatPappy Member
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It was downright shameful an' disgustin' the way BS insulted Mayor Brown an' George Holub by baselessly accusin' them o' tryin' to hoodwink the town an' buy George a truck. The truck had been budgeted for an' the need had been well demonstrated. She even had the nerve to try an' diminish the value of George's many, many unpaid hours of above an' beyond the call o' duty by sayin' he got his 48¢ a mile. I was proud o' Bob Williams for bringin' up the idea o' givin' George a salary for what he very capably an' very dilligently does for us. Thank you, Mayor Brown! Thank you, George Holub! Thank you, Bob Williams! |
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macca Member
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So, what was the outcome of the discussion about George and the truck? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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macca wrote: Is Bill Hill the Town Attorney? Bill Hill is my HERO! He really shut that "mom" creature up when she continually tried to speak out of turn. Love him! Love him! Love him!!!! |
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FatPappy Member
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macca wrote:So, what was the outcome of the discussion about George and the truck? The outcome was, by a 3-2 vote, the town's gettin' a truck an' George is a decent feller. His salary will be discussed further at the next meetin'. |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:macca wrote:Is Bill Hill the Town Attorney? Ain't it the truth! Bill Hill, town attorney an' town hero! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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macca wrote: So, what was the outcome of the discussion about George and the truck? We are getting the truck. It will sit at town hall until policies and procedures are in place for drivers of said vehicle. BS had a fit and fell in it during the truck discussion. She and DC wanted to know what the "pressing need" for this truck was.... of course trying to get someone to say we need it for the park. Ron, the public safety guy handled them quite well, telling them that we need the truck to pull the generator during emergency situations... not just for us but for surrounding counties as well. Then DC says that NIMS would find someone to pull the generator for us, but we might not get immediate response. Well.....isn't that the point of emergency preparedness? Immediate response?? When BS vehemently said "George we're buying this truck for you" and eluded to the fact that because he volunteered to ride out of town with Mark and look at the truck to see if it was suitable then it was gonna be for George. Her 48 cents a mile argument is just stupid. Gas is $3.00 a gallon so $ 4.80 to drag that generator 10 miles behind a gas guzzling truck doesn't even make a dent. Not to mention the volunteer's time, and wear and tear on the vehicle George stated that he'd used his vehicle to haul construction materials and it tore up the inside of his SUV. When he gets his 48 cents for mileage reimbursement maybe he can buy some new carpet for his car. Hey George! Ask Dwayne to pay for it! He's in a generous mood! |
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FatPappy Member
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BS didn't have a problem votin' to get her money! Even wanted to make sure it was retroactive to July! Gimme, gimme, gimme! Mine, mine, mine! We should get George to deliver her check in the new truck! |
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macca Member
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What is NIMS? (I'm just learning so much!) |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I haven't written much about Dwayne's grandstanding tactics last night because my bottom jaw was still on the keyboard. Here's what I got out of his rambling speech. He is challenging us(parents of SRA kids) to give up our vacations and pay our $1200.00 (he'd done the math... # of kids playing vs. cost of ball fields) to buy the fields. I wonder how many checks were in the collection plate after the meeting? Ok Dwayne. Let me 'splain something to ya. We have already paid for the ball parks. We've paid with our taxes and the countless volunteer hours (that we did not turn in for reimbursement). You now want us to pay again?? I've heard it said that you don't want YOUR tax money to go to ball parks for MY kids to play on. Tough turkey buddy. That's what taxes are all about. My taxes go toward many things that I don't use but if it helps folks in our country who need it or enriches someone else's life I'm not gonna whine about it. And FYI, Luckily a friend asked our family to go to the beach this year for vacation. Spent exactly $0.00 on a vacation and that's what I put in the collection plate for ballfields. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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macca wrote: What is NIMS? (I'm just learning so much!) It stands for "National Incident Management System" I think Macca. They train folks (government and private sector) on how to handle emergency situations. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: BS didn't have a problem votin' to get her money! Even wanted to make sure it was retroactive to July! Gimme, gimme, gimme! Mine, mine, mine! We should get George to deliver her check in the new truck! OH YEA! I forgot about that!!! I sure hope all of the town core disciples that she rounded up to come and hear Mr. Milam's speech heard her begging for last month's pay! |
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macca Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:macca wrote:What is NIMS? (I'm just learning so much!) Thanks! I was thinking (based on what I've read/heard) that maybe it was "Not In My Summerfield." (Sorry!) |
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macca Member
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What was Mr. Milam's speech about? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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macca wrote: What was Mr. Milam's speech about? He was proposing a PUD(Planned Unit Development) ordinance. All he wanted was for the council to consider something like this so that developers could build affordable housing in our area. I'm not real good at this kind of thing (I hate zoning talk) but I think the PUD would allow for mixed use zoning... for instance, a parcel of land on 220 could have commercial zoning along the 220 road frontage and housing on the back portion of the property. For some reason the town core people came out in droves so I am assuming that they were lied to about what Milam was presenting. I am glad that they were there to see how their elected council members (and MOM) behave. It's really embarassing. MOM came in at least an hour late started scraping chairs around and then proceeded to stand up and walk around passing out papers to the town core disciples while the council was trying to conduct business.
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FatPappy Member
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I wonder what "history book" Dwayne was repeatin' them "facts" from durin' the preamble to his ramblin' manefesto last night? I felt a presence I've not felt since... Anyway, it's painful to watch him. He's an embarrasment. I wish he'd stop the madness. Get a grip, son! Take a vacation. Get outside. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: I wonder what "history book" Dwayne was repeatin' them "facts" from durin' the preamble to his ramblin' manefesto last night? I felt a presence I've not felt since... Yea, he kept quoting a "mysterious source" who gave him inaccurate information about the SRA and their past expenditures and whatever... Didn't reallly follow all that except when he said his mysterious source must have been lying because there were several objections to his information. I gotta give ol' Dwayne some credit for listening to us though... I think he had written out his speech beforehand. Now we just have to get him to edit out the ramblings and get to the point. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I was proud of Robin Smith (town planner) last night. She handled "Ms. Strickland" quite well and didn't let her feathers get ruffled by all of the BS attacks. I'm impressed by her knowledge of the issues and the "homework" she does before she comes in to a council meeting. Her new hair color looked nice too! |
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happycamper Member
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I know very little about the PUD's, and even less about Mr.Milam. I do know that what I understood the main concern to be last night concerning this was that the timing is off....In that I mean the "topic" so to speak of PUD zoning should be considered only after the comprehensive plan has been completed. From what I have read I think the PUD in theory is a semi OK idea. As a citizen, I would like to know exactly what is being built close to my property, what will it look like, how big, what type of parking, entrances, lighting and so on...And I think a PUD mandates these things and the builders must abide by them. On the other hand, it also looks like Builders/developers like these because they are able to fully utilize the land to it's maximum potential., ie. build more homes on smaller size lots than the current zoning might allow. It allows builders to masterplan a large piece of land under one "umbrella" so to speak of a mixture of land uses., and receive one zoning permit. This, I am afraid, in turn is another way to bring in more and more development.,both residential and commercial.,by allowing this mix land use which would normally be segregated by traditional zoning districts. In doing so the developers work around the current zoning restrictions such as lot size,density,frontage and set back requirements...and this should be a concern for all. I guess any time I hear someone, especially a developer, trying to change the current zoning I perk up. I have a problem with the "I'm not asking for anything" approach, ie. "tanstaafl" theory at work. Now back to the begining. Although I do think it could have been said in a much better tone , Summerfield really needs to put the folks attention to an overall Comprehensive plan that works. I have witnessed many re zonings that made little since to the overall good of the community, or at least the way I see it. I may not like the outcome of the comprehensive plan, but in the least folks will have the opportunity to have some input and the zonings should be more consistent....Therefore I do not think now is the time to have our officials spending time trying to develop the PUD zoning, especially when there is work to be done on the comprehesive plan. I do wish that all members of the council could all at least talk to each other and the public with a little more respect . I think it is good that we have a diverse group when it come to opinions, as it would not be to anyones advantage if everyone thought the same way. Many times I think DC has ideas that are O.K. he just lacks the ability to express his ideas in a manner that makes sense., or without offending someone. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I do think it will be nice to have a comprehensive plan, but it won't it just be a guide to help the town write ordinance that might have a little more backbone? In that manner I don't think that discussing the PUD would be such a bad idea, but I do think the rudeness it was handled with was uncalled for. I am excited about the comprehensive plan because I do think it will give Summerfield a better idea about what kind of development goes where. I too have been confused at times on why some re-zoning goes through but others do not when they seem pretty similar to me. On another note did I understand that the papers that MOM was passing out contained information on campaign money. I wonder if it had MOM's information on it and where she decided to put her money, not that I don't already have a pretty good idea of where it went. |
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FatPappy Member
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I'd be more afraid o' the poison Mom an' her crowd are sellin' than what Mr Milam is sellin'. I say let's hear what he has to say, as long as it don't distract from the work on the Comprehensive Plan. Last edited on Aug 2nd, 2006 11:20 pm by FatPappy |
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zippitydoodah Member
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I heard from some people there that the papers that were passed out were campaign contribution forms. Evidently Paul Milam had given some money to Mark Brown's campaign for mayor. The form came from the board of election and there was nothing illegal or hidden about it. I don't know what difference this makes because Mark Brown can't vote on any issues that came up in front of the town council. I think people runing for council always need to be careful who they accept money from because it might come back to bite them, but don't see that it makes any difference here since the mayor can no longer vote. |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree, Zippity. As long as it's legal an' out in the open, I don't see a problem. Mark Brown is about as honest as they come anyway. I'd just as soon see that whole political contribution system done away with anyway fer all the problems it causes. That's how the Concerned Citizens brew their poison. Seasoned with just enough facts to make it seem palatable, then they stir it up with innuendo an' lies an' manage to get some people to swaller it. Notice they usually target people who are already upset about somethin' an' lookin' fer somebody to blame an' are therefore more inclined to swaller somethin' to make 'em feel better. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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happycamper wrote: I know very little about the PUD's, and even less about Mr.Milam. I think happycamper has made some really good observations here. I don't disagree with a PUD zoning. It would require developers to be more specific about what they would put on a property. Guilford County has such a zoning. I don't know about Oak Ridge, but I know Stokesdale does and their council recently passed one of these developments. As the town planner said, this is the future of zoning. Of course, Summerfield could tailor their ordinance to allow whatever they want. In addition, the council always has the ability to not pass a rezoning. I also understand the concern about timing. I personally don't have a problem with a developer, along with a committee of citizens (preferably from diverse backgrounds, not just a bunch of developers), putting together a draft ordinance. Isn't this kind of what the town core committee was trying to do? I would not want to tie up the time of staff being involved in this, simply because I don't think they have the time to give. But I agree that the ordinance shouldn't be adopted prior to the comprehensive plan being done. In other words, the group could craft a draft ordinance, but it would just sit there until it was tied in with the comprehensive plan. Yes, this committee would run the risk of the comprehensive plan saying this is not compatible with where the town wants to go, and so there is the possibility that their time might just be wasted. happycamper is right -- diversity of opinions is always good. It is also good to remember to express your ideas in a respectful way, even if you disagree. That concept has somehow escaped our county commissioners and has plagued that board for a long time. Loss of respect from much of their constituency has been the end result. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
I think a lot of those town core people are mad at Paul Milam because of the re-zoning of the Yost & Little office. I think when he re-zoned it he just said it was going to have that office there, but when the actual plan was shown it has some more buildings on it. Sometimes with developers its not just what they say but what they don't say. You have to learn to read between the lines and ask the right questions. You have to be carful not to get duped, and thats what happened here and I think thats why they are still so angry. They will never trust him again. Now probably anything Milam tries to do they will be against or at least be paying a lot closer attention. Now I still don't understand why they wouldn't want a town core plan that would specifically say what you could and couldn't do in this area. It wouldn't necessarily say you could put commercial developement in certain areas. But I guess this is a mute point because it will be covered in that comprehensive plan. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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zippitydoodah wrote: I heard from some people there that the papers that were passed out were campaign contribution forms. Evidently Paul Milam had given some money to Mark Brown's campaign for mayor. The form came from the board of election and there was nothing illegal or hidden about it.Is Mark Brown now in Paul Milam's pocket and beholding to his every whim??? Enquiring minds want to know....... |
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macca Member
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FatPappy wrote:I agree, Zippity. As long as it's legal an' out in the open, I don't see a problem. Mark Brown is about as honest as they come anyway. I'd just as soon see that whole political contribution system done away with anyway fer all the problems it causes. So, when she was distributing this literature, did she only give it to people that she knew were already upset? |
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FatPappy Member
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macca wrote:So, when she was distributing this literature, did she only give it to people that she knew were already upset? So it would seem. There's two ways to look at it. Florence Nightengale passin' out poultices to the wounded? Or a buzzard hoverin' over her victims? Sure, it makes sense to keep an eye on developers an' politicians an' any other "players". We all got a point o' view to sell (me included), some good, some not so good. Let the buyer beware. Especially beware of some o' the "package deals" bein' offered; facts packaged with pre-drawn conclusions. |
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FatPappy Member
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zippitydoodah wrote:Is Mark Brown now in Paul Milam's pocket and beholding to his every whim??? Enquiring minds want to know....... Mark Brown is a very conscientous, civic-minded an' honorable man to my way o' thinkin'. No need to take my word fer it, though. Let's just watch what happens. An' while we're watchin', don't ferget to watch the other watchers. |
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zippitydoodah Member
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FatPappy wrote: zippitydoodah wrote:I didn't mean to imply that Mayor Brown was less than honorable in any way. I hope nobody took it that way. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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FatPappy wrote: Sure, it makes sense to keep an eye on developers an' politicians an' any other "players". We all got a point o' view to sell (me included), some good, some not so good. Let the buyer beware. Especially beware of some o' the "package deals" bein' offered; facts packaged with pre-drawn conclusions.Interesting conversation on this topic. What do you think it means, if anything, to accept a campaign contribution that is legitimate, legal and documented from a developer or any other person or group that might bring things before the council? And does it make a difference if the contributions are made to an candidate that can't vote? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Anybody can donate to any campaign. Paul Milam donated to Mark's. He offered to donate to mine but I turned him down mainly because I thought the ramifications were more than I wanted to explain. Would not have changed my thought processes at all. I was and continue you to be an advocator of smarter developing and more parks, open space and trails. I dealt with all issues from that perspective regardless of who was bringing it to the council. It is a matter of public record what money Mark took. But you know interestingly it does not appear to be public record where the concerned citizens are getting their money which surprises me since they are such advocates of open government. Information doesn't seem to need to flow both ways in their minds. I guess that means BS and DC can hide their contributions behind the curtain of the CC's so the public is not aware who is donating. Hadn't thought of that until Sandra asked the question. Where is Macca PI when I need her? Whether the mayor votes or doesn't vote she/he has tremendous power in the direction of the town. |
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FatPappy Member
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zippitydoodah wrote:I didn't mean to imply that Mayor Brown was less than honorable in any way. I hope nobody took it that way. I understood where you was comin' from, Zippity. Pappy weren't aimin' nuthin' at you. The big point in all this that I wanted to make was that conclusions should come after the facts, not before, an' we all need to be very clear whether what we're hearin' is in fact a fact or somebody's spin disguised as a fact. For example, it's a fact that several committees identified a need fer a town truck, the council agreed with tht need an' budgeted fer it. It's a fact Mayor Brown scoped out a deal on a truck an' him an' George Holub went to test drive it. Those are the facts. Where the trouble comes in is what conclusions are drawed from these facts. Pappy concluded that it sounded like they found a good deal an' the town would be gettin' the truck it needed sooner than later. BS, on the other hand, apparently decided those facts meant Mayor Brown had duped us into buyin' his ol' buddy George a truck an' accused 'em of it outright. My conclusion from that is that she will boldly an' brazenly say whatever she thinks she can get away with if things don't go exactly her way. |
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FatPappy Member
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S. Smith wrote:What do you think it means, if anything, to accept a campaign contribution that is legitimate, legal and documented from a developer or any other person or group that might bring things before the council? And does it make a difference if the contributions are made to an candidate that can't vote? In general, I don't like the idea of anybody contributin' money directly to a particular candidate or party. It opens the door fer all kinds o' real an' perceived abuse. On the one hand, if a candidate doesn't accept contributions, they run the risk of bein' outspent by an' losin' to the opposition. On the other hand, if they do accept contributions, they run the risk of bein' guilty by association. I think we need campaign finance reform to cut the direct flow an' have a pool that legitimate candidates can get equal he'p from. Or somethin' like that. The reality of the present situation leaves a candidate, especially in a small town, no good choices. The best we can do is keep thangs as out in the open as possible. Jane makes a good point about the concerned citizens and where their money is comin' from. It wasn't from me in case anybody was wonderin'. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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As I have said before " Where has the love gone." BS and DC use hate filled tactics and half truths to try and sway people into thinking that someone is wrong or doing wrong with the taxpayers money. Every time Mom disrupts the meetings she should be asked to leave. Every meeting she attends she is out of order or disruptive. She should not be allowed to pass out propaganda to try and sway the crowd during a meeting. When this happend last meeting it was very rude of her. This is a Town meeting for Town Biz not a CC campaign. Does the meeting have a Sargent of Arms to control this? If not one is needed!! |
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zippitydoodah Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Does the meeting have a Sargent of Arms to control this? If not one is needed!! Isn't it the mayor's job to run the meeting and to maintain order? Of course I think some mayors are more prone to banging the gavel than others are. |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree about town meetin's bein' fer town bidness. I think Bill Hill an' Mayor Brown made some good moves last time. I trust they will keep it up. I would also like to see them address the rudeness an' disrespect fer citizens that comes from Becky Strickland durin' meetin's. We should be able to expect our leaders to speak to the citizens with respect an' decency, no matter what views are expressed. |
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happycamper Member
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Does anyone know if in the past the candidates for town council and mayor had any open discussion/ questions in a debate type format where the citizens could ask each candidate where they stood on certain issues? I would like to see this happen in the next election... I just recently got interested/involved in the local issues, but I do think it would be good to have an opportunity to have a question and answer session . My thinking is that the next 2-3 years will be pivotal in the future of Summerfield., I guess it is a matter of who you associate with. For the most part, folks seem to me to be most concerned with ( in order) a) development b) taxes c) Spending I find myself talking with a lot of people about town issues lately, something I tried my best to stay out of. As I speak with these folks, they seem more upset over being "over run" by large scale residential developments, and/or drug stores,sandwich shops, and offices. And although some would argue that this is "progress" for the town..I wonder if council members have a grip on how to handle this growth..Some, to me, seem all for it..Some all against. Where is the middle ground? To me ,true progress is making the decisions now that will make life better for those that come behind you...ie. Our Kids. To me the best thing that we could hope for in the next election is that the folks voted in have the willingness to work with one another for true progress, .....limiting growth and development.,keeping taxes down, and resposible spending.. |
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FatPappy Member
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To my way o' thinkin', cooperation an' respect fer opposin' views is where we're gonna hafta start afore we come up with any kind o' meanin'ful solutions to anythang. Judgin' by the deplorable treatment o' Paul Milam, George Holub, an' the SRA at the last SF council meetin', not ever'body on the council shares that opinion. Summerfield's good folk have endured some harsh treatment since that plague o' Concerned Citizen locusts darkened our sky an' started devourin' decency right an' left. As long as the opposin' views o' citizens (even majority views) are stomped on an' volunteers are verbally lynched or arrogantly dismissed (but with 48¢ a mile! Wow!), we're gonna see another season end without no decent crop o' cooperation an' respect sproutin' up in this hard ground. Pappy's proud we got us some decent an' capable leaders an' volunteers willin' to brave such harsh conditions while they plant the seeds o' future growth, despite that dry ill wind always a-blowin' no good. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Happy Camper- For several elections our intrepid Northwest observer sponsored a meet the candidates night where the audience got to ask questions etc. Unfortunately they were very poorly attended so last election they had an question and answer section in the paper. Start thinking and see if maybe there is a way to do this that people find helpful and talk to Sandra and Patty. Now as to development much harder issue. North Carolina is a property rights state which pretty much means that you get to sell your land for its highest and best use. Unforturnately only us tree huggers seem to recognize that undeveloped is an excellent use of land. People have the right to sell their land. The community has the right to determine what types of development is going in what areas but it does not have the right to say you can't sell and do something with the land that is within the ordinances and planning for your town. So because we have one drugstore on the corner that is zoned commercial if somebody comes along and says hey I want to build another drugstore directly across the street on that piece of property that is zoned commercial they can not be stopped. Same with housing developments. In the 10 years that Summerfield has been a town we have tweaked our long range plan and ordinances to go from the requirement of 30.00o square feet per house to 60,000 square feet per house in effect halfing the number of houses that can be put in a development but if Mr. property owners property meets the requirements for water and sewer, the community does not have the right to say we don't want to see houses there unless the community is prepared to buy the property and save it that way. There will always be a conflict between the property sellers and the neighbors. It is the nature of the way our country operates. Everything has a value and our economy and everything is based on buying and building more. If there are enough people out there who care enough to change the course of Summerfield then they need to come to the council meetings, not just the ones that effect their neighborhood and start saying we want things to change. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Well said Jane. I feel (my opinion) Large property owners who want to sell their land want to sell for the best deal overall. These property owners are selling these long time family owned farms because they are no longer able to support them as farms. In other words there are no money producing farms in Summerfield that can support a family. These family owned farms are going up for sale and the only people that will purchase them are developers.The developers will not purchase the property unless it can be rezoned! So, If you live next to a farm and enjoy the view of someone else's property and it is going to be sold to a developer if it can be rezoned and you and your neighbors don't approve, you and your neighbors need to purchase this property. Some of these farms are tax debts to the families who own them and they need to sell. Kept this in mind also when you are thinking about being a good neighbor. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Whew! I have some catchin' up to do here! Jane, thanks for once again explaining that development approval is not always black and white and doesn't just depend on whether or not a council member likes or dislikes development. Happy Camper... I would certainly hope that if the NWO decided to conduct a candidate's forum for the next election folks would attend. I think a lot of people are realizing that they were bamboozled during the last election and are paying closer attention. I sure hope so anyway. About the CC's campaign contributions.... Don't ya'll remember that we asked that way back when??? We wondered who was funding all of those mailings? Pappy, I think your observations about cooperation and respect for differing opinions is "spot on"! Oh... and do you think the CC's would vote to approve a statue, honoring my new HERO Bill Hill, to be erected in the SF park?? |
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FatPappy Member
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Bamboozled! Good word, Crackah! 'Bout time you jumped in here. A good Crackah post does us all a lot o' good. I reckon Bill Hill must be proud to be your hero! Now if you make that statue a mile long, them CCs might give you 48¢ toward it, otherwise I don't know if their main man's got any more o' his salary left this year to take off his taxes or I bet he'd be willin' to contribute. Talk about spendin' yer paycheck all in one place! I wonder if George has been able to use the truck yet. I hope it ain't been tied up transportin' all Mom's FOIA papers. I thought they didn't want the town to get in the trash bidness. Huh... |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Look's like Bill was a great Baseball player also Bill Hill Stats Bill Hill was born on Sunday, August 2, 1874, in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Hill was 21 years old when he broke into the big leagues on April 18, 1896, with the Louisville Colonels. His biographical data, year-by-year hitting stats, fielding stats, pitching stats (where applicable), career totals, uniform numbers, salary data and miscellaneous items-of-interest are presented by Baseball Almanac on this comprehensive Bill Hill baseball stats page. Email editor@nwobserver.com if you'd like a copy of the above stats. Sorry Baseball Buddy, but these stats took up a little too much room and were just a little bit off topic. Interesting stuff to know, though, and I've saved them in case anyone wants them. - Patti Last edited on Aug 11th, 2006 07:27 pm by EditorPS |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Well goodness Baseball Buddy! I don't speak all that baseball-ese but I know Bill was battin' 1000 when he shut out the Mom Creature the other night. Home Run! (Where's Lacka's baseball knowledge when I need it???) |
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Steve Adkins Member
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And now.................Let's Get Back "On Topic" please Summerfield Town Council |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Ahem...Excuse me SMS.... Bill Hill, attorney for the SUMMERFIELD TOWN COUNCIL (and my new hero) was at the SUMMERFIELD TOWN COUNCIL meeting when he shut the Mom Creature up. She was once again disrupting the SUMMERFIELD TOWN COUNCIL meeting and the SUMMERFIELD TOWN COUNCIL was having trouble conducting SUMMERFIELD TOWN COUNCIL business because of her. Last edited on Aug 13th, 2006 12:27 am by Cracker Jax |
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FatPappy Member
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Easy, now, Steve-O. We're just takin' care o' a little bidness. It's all good in the hood. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Cracker- Maybe you could start a new Thread......BILL HILL MY NEW HERO.... and solve the off topic problem. Just a suggestion. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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You guys are extremely quiet over here. What's going on? No council comments here in almost 2 weeks. I see something on the zoning board agenda about nuisance ordinance. Does anybody know specifically what this is about? Do you guys think the nuisance ordinance needs to be changed? |
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zippitydoodah Member
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I don't know what this is all about but from what I know there are some people in SF that could be classified as a nusiance!! Does this new ordinance thing apply to them??? |
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FatPappy Member
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I don't know what's it's specifically about neither. I could guess, but I'm like zippity, it'd be a looooooong list. I wonder if noise will be included in the nuisance category or that's a separate thang? Them long wave length bass sounds comin' outta car stereos travel a good ways. I've been beside cars playin' the bass so loud it rattles Pappy's dentures. |
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DToney Member
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y'all's "mom" would be #1 nusiance!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Amen DT! |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Mom will keep her mouth shut about the old farm dump area bordering the park that was in Hinson Farms. It got cleaned up last week along with trash in the park pond. 8 tires and alot of cans and fishing iteams were removed from the pond. We filled a utility trailer with all sorts of trash from the old farm dump. I hope Mom is satisfied. If it had been any other neighborhood in the area , Mom would have complained about the Town cleaning up someone else's mess. While a group of us were looking at land for ball fields I saw several old farm dump sights that need to be cleaned up. Would Mom be so adiment to get this cleaned up also? Or is she just concerned about herself? A little food for thought. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: I hope Mom is satisfied. If it had been any other neighborhood in the area , Mom would have complained about the Town cleaning up someone else's mess. ......is she just concerned about herself? A little food for thought. Hmmmmm.... I thought about it and that's a VERY good point BB!!! |
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StewartM Member
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Mom is still trying to clean up Town Hall....with her FIA there will be no more paper left at Town Hall........give her a shovel.... |
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FatPappy Member
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Interestin' observation, BB! It's interestin' how some people, in the name of freedom of information an' fair play, will abuse the system an' the taxpayers all they want to suit their purposes. Ironically, in such a warped an' selfish value system as they seem to have, their purposes have nothing to do with freedom, information, or fair play. (Mr Mike, I think a broom suits her better than a shovel...) |
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Waytago Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Or is she just concerned about herself? A little food for thought. Having seen how this lady works, it wouldn't surprise me if she found something to complain about how HER neighborhood was cleaned up. She'll take a positive, and put a negative spin on it. Last edited on Sep 2nd, 2006 12:35 am by Waytago |
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DToney Member
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FatPappy wrote: (Mr Mike, I think a broom suits her better than a shovel...)hehehe! you go pappy! |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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DToney wrote: FatPappy wrote:(Mr Mike, I think a broom suits her better than a shovel...)hehehe! you go pappy! I have never seen a shovel in the hand of any of the CC's A broom under Mom, Yes |
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Waytago Member
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I seem to recall there are a few other folks on the TC that don't get nearly as much publicity as BS & DC. Sadly I do not know the other TC members reputations nearly as well, other than being quieter folks, and very pro-Summerfield. I'd like to ask our participants to spend some forum time & space to elaborate on the positives of Carolyn Collins, Bob Williams, Dena Barnes, and Mark Brown. From all I can see, they are fine people, whose good attributes are getting over shadowed. Last edited on Sep 4th, 2006 04:40 pm by Waytago |
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macca Member
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I think that is an excellent suggestion, Waytago! Why not focus on the good things folks are trying to do instead of giving attention to the ones who are being so negative??? As someone on the outside (living in another town), I'd like to hear more about these good folks who persevere in spite of the others. ♥♥♥ |
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DToney Member
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way to go! Waytogo!! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Waytago wrote: I'd like to ask our participants to spend some forum time & space to elaborate on the positives of Carolyn Collins, Bob Williams, Dena Barnes, and Mark Brown. From all I can see, they are fine people, whose good attributes are getting over shadowed. It would also be helpful to the rest of us not from Summerfield if some of you could give us a short political history of the town council and how this town council board got elected. As I understand it, there was some sort of political rebellion or strong partisan battle, but I am not sure of what caused that. Where did the political or community support for these new council people (renegades?) come from? Which parts of the community are backing which town council members? So, how about it. Can anyone post a Summerfield Politics 101 for the rest of us so we can understand? |
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Waytago Member
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You can gain alot of insight on the two newest TC members by reading comments in the Concerned Citizens topic. Their dubious tactics managed to get them elected to office, but the intelligent voters of this community are realizing the transparency of their personal agendas, it is doubtful the voters will make the same mistake twice. In the meantime, the quieter pro-Summerfield TC members are ensuring the communities best interests are kept in mind. It is these members that should be receiving louder accolades in this community for their fine work. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Waytago wrote: You can gain alot of insight on the two newest TC members by reading comments in the Concerned Citizens topic. Their dubious tactics managed to get them elected to office I suppose my question originally has more to do with how they got elected and what their announced agenda was prior to their election. Further, how has their agenda changed since they were elected. Where did or does their power or political "base" come from? In other words, which sector of the community supported them prior to the election and has that support remained solid? Why or why not? Finally, how did they convince a majority of voters to support them and their agendas at the time of the election? Any help in the form of explanation you can provide would greatly enhance our understanding of what seems complicated and complex to outsiders. Last edited on Sep 5th, 2006 02:09 am by Jim Flynt |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Jim- As you know about 5 years ago the County quit sharing the sales tax with the small towns unless they charged a tax. The Town of Summerfield knew as did all the other towns that this was inevidable as the Towns in the NW area and Summerfield in particular had large sums of money in savings while the County struggled to fund its programs. The County saw the approximately 3 million dollars it was sharing with the NW and they decided to stop it. That was one problem. Another problem was that 15 years ago when the group got together to work on incorporating the town one of the slogans iwas it would not cost the citizens of Summerfield anything because they would be getting close to a million dollars each year from the county. 2nd problem. third problem is a lot of people only heard you will never have to pay taxes in Summerfield. And in fact several of the very vocal members of the Concerned citizens proudly state that is one of the reasons they moved to Summerfield. No taxes. Well the Town of Summerfield went for one year with no taxes, sitting on a large sum of money and the debate started. Sit on the money, don't offer any services, and never charge taxes or charge a tax, act like a town and provide some services. The Town Council and I was a member and I voted to charge the taxes felt that we had a responsiblity if we were going to stay incorporated to act like a town. We have responsiblities to our citizens and we needed to fund them or I felt we should turn the money back to the County and unincorporate. We charged a tax. The first year is 10.5 cents on the hundred or approximately $100 on every $1,000. One of the goals that the Town Council had was to build a Town Hall with space for a sheriff substation. The Concerned Citzens were born. The Town Hall was scrapped. The next year the taxes came down to 5 cents I think and this year they are 4 and a fraction. The Town has saved more money every year and the fund balance has grown. Last year the concerned citizens started a campaign of lots of mistruths about the spend thrift council and nobody much voted. One of the smallest turn outs in years. Dwayne beat me by I think 8 votes and Becky maybe a 100 so they do not appear to have any mandate at this point. They are a minority and the 3 old council members have not lost sight of the goals of Summerfield. The park will be dedicated next Saturday which is a project that has been on going for about 7 or 8 years. Ball fields are another big item that is being actively pursued. Our ordinances are some of the most environmentally aware in the state and in the 6 years I was on the board we saved hunderds of acres of open space with our ordinances. Hope that helps. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Jane, Thank-you for your wonderful history which does in fact help the outsiders to understand what is happening by knowing what happened. One of the questions which I would like to ask if it doesn't make you feel uncomfortable, is looking backward now in hindsight, what you would have done differently on a personal level (if anything) as a town council member and what you might have done differently in campaigning/running for reelection? What 'political' lessons have been learned by those of you who were the decisions makers at the time? Were there mistakes which 'your side' bears some responsibility for which caused this political reorganization of the town council membership? Were the differences which the CC had with the old TC more stylistic or substantive in nature? Finally, do you feel in hindsight that there were any errors in communicating more clearly with the citizens (voters) during both the legislative process as well as the political process (election)? Last edited on Sep 5th, 2006 02:44 am by Jim Flynt |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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On a personal level I don't think I would have done anything much different. I am who I am, love this town, have lived here for many years. I tried to move us in a direction of more conservation, better world citizens, maintain some of our rural character. We can't stop developement but we can guide it and I think we have done a fair job of that. In the election I made the mistake of thinking that the voters knew who I was and what I stood for. I did not want to take money from special intrest groups and I didn't so I set myself a limit and that was all I spent. Voter turn out was the major issue I think along with communication. The CC's were bombarding the area with their material and then the majority of folks didn't vote. So it was sort of a double whammy. As a council we continually discussed ways to get the message out of what we were trying to do. And in the case of the Town Hall the cc's showed up at the eleventh hour. The land had been bought and the drawings done and all of a sudden there was this hew and cry about spending the money. Up until that time we had had no disenters at all. The Town Hall had been in the plans for at least 4 years. The park luckily escaped but only because those of us who care have hammered away with Debbie as the leader and now Sue. We managed to keep the money in the budget for the 1st phase. Obviously I made mistakes or I would still be on the council. I am terribly pragmatic and blunt which probably didn't help any either. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Jane, those of us who know love you the way you are, don't change. As for the CC's getting DC and BS elected, They preyed on peoples emotions of not wanting to pay taxes and that is all. They could not tell you one single issue where they stood without having a confrence with one another and thinking it out before answering. If you are a Town Council Member you are in charge of running the Town. This involves spending tax dollars. To say no to spending means no to running a Town. These 2 will only agree with the other 3 if it personally benifits them in some way. Some more food for thought. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Jane, those of us who know love you the way you are, don't change. BB, I wasn't suggesting that Jane change nor was that my question. The larger point I was asking was, would she in hindsight have changed any of her decisions public, personal or political. One can change their mind on an issue without compromising their person or principles. I take great interest in the discussion, debate and implementation of public policy questions, political strategy and tactic, and public leadership issues. Clearly, Jane was/is in a wonderfully unique position to share with us what she and the others may have learned from this experience. While painful, sometimes the lessons learned in pain are more easily not forgotten than all of the successes and victories. And in the political arena most especially where that loss is felt at such a personal level. In politics, it is said, that perceptions become reality (with voters). My real question to Jane then, if you examine closely, was in hindsight, if there would have been ways to have changed the public perceptions, thus changing the dynamics of the underlying realities which were thus created by underlying misperceptions which started this whole political revolution and realignment. Having said all of that, I do agree with BB. Don't change. It is the one essential vital ingredient in why so many love you both in Summerfield and around here on this Forum. Last edited on Sep 5th, 2006 01:44 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Cracker Jax Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Jim- As you know about 5 years ago the County quit sharing the sales tax with the small towns unless they charged a tax. Wonderful discussion Ya'll. Thanks Waytago for pointing out that we perhaps need to "toot the horn" of the other council members once in a while. If we aren't careful, the names of the CC's are gonna be the most well known and that's who the uninformed voters will vote for. eek! I belive Jane's statement above is very important and one that most Summerfield citizens aren't aware of. If Summerfield did not charge a tax then no money would be recieved from the county. Kinda backwards but that's the county for ya! The CC's are soley responsible for bringing the nasty side of politics to Summerfield. While their campaign tactics were based on half truths and sometimes outright lies, they played on people's pocketbooks and folks who didn't keep up or come to council meetings had no idea they were being bamboozled. The sitting council at the time (Jane, Mike, Bob, Carolyn, Dena and Mark) was "blindsided". Since they were all just townfolk who love their town and wanted the best for Summerfield, they weren't prepared for the dirty politics and certainly weren't equipped to fight back. I still don't think any of them have it in them to base their campaigns on lies and deceit. I'm glad about that. I am very concerned about who's gonna be sitting in Bob, Carolyn and Dena's seats after the next election. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: DOGGETTJA wrote:Jim- As you know about 5 years ago the County quit sharing the sales tax with the small towns unless they charged a tax. Just to be both clear and fair, while it is true that Guilford County doesn't share the general sales tax with the small towns unless they impose a property tax, that does not mean that the small towns are without revenue sources. I understand that the loss of the sales tax revenue when Guilford County elected another method of distribution reduced a sizeable portion of their then yearly income. Out of curiosity, what was the budget income for Summerfield prior to the sales tax being withheld versus afterwards (but prior to imposition of a local property tax)? Obviously, the loss of the sales tax revenue would have meant a more limited small town government and services budget expenditures, but the observation seems clear that citizens (voters) were willing to accept a more limited form of government and the limited services a restrained budget could fund rather than face taxes (or higher taxes in the cumulative sense). Finally, I am more clearly aware that faced with the same situation over here in Stokesdale in realizing loss of the county sales tax money, the Stokesdale Town Council decided to live more austerely within their limited budget rather than impose a property tax. And have done this while also providing the first municipal water system in the Northwest, limited police protection (lease of a GC Sheriff's deputy), and purchase of 25 acres for public purpose. And all of that having being done with absolutely no local property tax proposed or imposed. In so doing, the STC may well have 'spoiled' its' citizens with these services without taxes, but that is a two edged sword which swings both ways and will ultimately come back to cut their heads off when and if they ever do propose such. Voters always vote for or against incumbents based on what have you done for (or to) me lately. And it is my honest belief, that the Stokesdale Town Council members would be summararily dismissed ("bounced out on their ears") by the Stokesdale citizens/voters the very instant they that came out in favor of a town property tax. IF and WHEN a town property is ever PROPOSED or imposed in Stokesdale, there will/would be a political revolution and realignment of the town council members which would make the one in Summerfield pale by comparison. No one over here has to tell the Stokesdale town council members THAT, they clearly understand it. Their political fear serves as some form of protection for what are and would be a large group of concerned citizens of Stokesdale. So in looking and comparing two very similar yet different Northwest communities and how they each reacted in a different manner to the exact same stimuli, that is why I cannot for the life of me see why the sitting town council in Summerfield at the time could not have seen or envisioned the political revolution and realignment coming. To me, it would have seemed inevitable. One other trusim in politics, is that people always vote with their wallets. Last edited on Sep 5th, 2006 01:36 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Lacka Member
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FatPappy wrote:
Ran across this while looking for a spider for Jane. Couldn't help myself.
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Jim I can give you rough figures for the before and after the county took the tax. Before our income was somewhere around 900 to 1 million dollars as I remember after around $50,000. Now that is as I remember it and I have pitched all my budget material. I was not surprised that people did not jump up and down and congratulate the town on charging a tax but I was surprised at the personal attacks I and the other council members were subject to. My stock answer and I tried to keep it mind when this was all going on is that for $5.00 and some campaign signs you too can be a council member. I am shocked at the ugliness that the cc's spew out but the total lack of involvement in a solution. Stokesdale is a little different as you are smaller but Summerfield is growing rapidly and is considered a mid sized town in NC and with that comes requirements mandated but not paid for by the mandators such as some major clean water issues that will be expensive when we have to implement them probably in the next few years. Don't we need a plan and a way to pay for it? There are several things that because of our size and our desire to direct our destiny that will cost us in Summerfield. We have a planning department because we were not getting the individualized service from the county that people felt we needed. That costs us money. What do we do if the water dries up? Unless the town is prepared to buy up the open land to protect the water we can not stop people who want to develop from developing. The Town has been working on a water option for years and years. I guess in hind sight Jim if I had wanted to possibly remain on the Town Council I would have had to given up what I viewed as an absolute necessity which was a steady income that would allow us to make this town a good community not just a place to live. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I like the fact that Summerfield is trying to act like a town. I hate the ugliness that I saw when the concerned citizens started coming into power. What ever happened to the golden rule "do unto others". The concerned citizens ran on a no tax agenda yet they were more than willing to attend a training for new council members that was out of town and let the tax payers pay mileage, overnight stays and meals. Did they really learn anything more important going a few weeks early? Not sure if I have seen any signs of it. Not that I don't think the council members should be paid for some of their time and expenses, but I didn't see the 2 concerned citizens council members jump and down and yell that they couldn't take the money. Seems one was more concerned on how to file taxes in whether they should take the money or not. I see a lot of nay-saying from the concerned citizens and their council members but not a lot of solutions, unless you consider DC paying for Christmas cards and giving a donation to ballfields (and I definitely don't agree that he was giving up his retirement money, but maybe he was donating his stipend). And you know at least if I pay some taxes in the town of Summerfield I can have some of the sales tax back from Guilford County. Why should they keep all my hard earned money. I would like to spend it in my Town building parks, recreation fields and who knows maybe one day we will finally get that new town hall we so desperately need. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Yeah Hairbrush!!! |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
You're exactly right, Crackah! I know some of us harp a lot on the negatives of the CC bunch till some folks may get tired of hearin' it. But I don't want anybody to ferget what they did, how they did it, an' who they're really concerned about -- THEMSELVES AND THEIR POCKETBOOKS ONLY! Let's be absolutely clear on that last point! I'm proud o' Jane, Mike, Bob, Carolyn, Dena and Mark an' all the other selfless citizen volunteers who are doin' what they can fer their town! And, yes they don't get as much forum time as the others, but they get our admiration fer doin' what they do. In their honor, here's a big ol' YEE HAW! |
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Bubba Guest
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everyone I talked to during the election-were like they won't get in- they are crazy. But the day after I asked them did you vote! They were like no, but I didn't think they would get elected it just a little town election. Thank you to MARK BROWN, DENA BARNES, CAROLYN COLLINS, BOB WILLIAMS for continuing to nurture and help the citizens of Summerfield in our effort to become a healthy will-rounded town and also Jane Doggett and Mike Stewart. Hey guys are you going to run next time? |
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Bubba Guest
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Development is going to happen like Jane said earlier, But without our TC those developments could have been double the houses. They have helped slow the growing pains just a little. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:...I cannot for the life of me see why the sitting town council in Summerfield at the time could not have seen or envisioned the political revolution and realignment coming. To me, it would have seemed inevitable. You make an interestin' point, Mr Jim. It's a lot like sayin' if the young lady hadn't worn that seductive outfit an' walked alone at night she wouldn't have gotten attacked. Maybe it's true the actions of the victim could have been smarter, but that in no way justifies the attack. The previous council were not politicians, they were citizens focusing on trying to do some good for their town. I don't for a minute, not even a micro-nano second, believe the CC's care about this town. Their only interests, their ONLY INTERESTS are their own narrow self interests centered around their own pocket books. One thing we can thank the CC's for is waking us up. That and some good entertainment. (Pappy's bein' lazy tonight an' takin' a break from the action. Can't wait to read the reports from the meeting.) I hate politics. I really do. |
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Lacka Member
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Yeah Jane and Mike, so are you? I am thinking that more people will get out there and vote this time. Either that or they really do not care about where they live. BTW Mom left tonight on her broom about 6:45. I was sweatin' it, there were some empty seats over by me and I just knew she was headed my way. She didn't tho. Not sure who that was she sat with, have never seen him before. Does anyone know why in the world BS and DC would vote against raising the credit card limit. It seemed like the thing to do to me. I am sure that the users are not abusing the cards. I would assume that they have to be accountable for anything they spend, so......not like they are using the card to buy a new truck or to build a ball field. WOW the Parks and Rec I was amazed at the list of citizens and neighbors who donated time, equipment, and products. This is a great example of what our town is about. A few mentioned were Donna and Glen from the Garden outlet donated landscaping materials Murphys removed dead limbs so that all park areas would be safe for walking and playing. The fire department donated their boat and equipment to help with lake clean up. Vince Williams of Creative Garden Spaces helped with moving something big with one of those man machines....... Republic donated a container for debris... I am sure that I have left people out so if you were there and I did, please list them.... |
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Lacka Member
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FatPappy wrote:
Pap, I once thought this was true, OK it was fun at first, it was quite the side show, but now they are just waisting our time. It is embarrassing that the news crews come to our town to report on what the circus was doing. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Preliminary reports are in on the council meeting.....Oh my. Let's see. It's very hard to report on a SF TC meeting and remain positive but I'll try. Dena looked SOOOOO nice in that gold shirt and her necklace matched beautifully. Evon, the town clerk looked very nice too... She's a fashionista...very put together looking. Michael did a good job fielding questions and Robin's hair is still lookin' good! Oh yea, Bill Hill is my HERO! Ok... I can't do this. You reckon Waytago'd give me a reprieve from all this niceness on TC nites?? |
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FatPappy Member
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You're right, Lacka. It is embarrasin'. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Oh! Here's another positive...... GEORGE HOLUB! Wow, the list of things he accomplished in the last couple of weeks is amazing. Just coordinating all of those volunteers was a full time job.
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FatPappy Member
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Let's split 'em up, Crackah. You can take Bill Hill fer your hero, an' I'll take George Holub fer my hero. Hee hee! I kept lookin' when they lowered that park bathroom down to see if there were any Wicked Witch shoes stickin' out from under it. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I had typed this nice update on the meeting tonight and the computer gliched and it all went a way. Since Steve would give me a sign for innuendo's and bad words, ya'll will just have to imagine what I said. Anyway I thought except for the thing on the credit card balance which I have to assume BS and DC didn't understand because we know they are all about saving us tax payers from ourselves and they voted against uping the balance so that people have had to charge things on their personal credit cards and the Town did not get reimbursed for the sales tax. There is a special called meeting on September 26 which I think everybody should put on their calendar. The pud is coming up again along with comprehensive plan and a couple of other things. Oh hiring a project manager for the next phase of the park and the ball fields. George has absolutley proved that the Park would not have happened with out him. Besides being there every day George also brought the park in under budget and got tremendous amounts donated. Hey Cracker I think you should add George to your hero list with Bill Hill. |
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FatPappy Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:Hey Cracker I think you should add George to your hero list with Bill Hill. Hey, now! George is done spoke for! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Wicked Witch Shoes! That was GREAT!
Ok Pappy... I'll share. George can be your official hero and Bill Hill will be mine. Reckon we ought to get T-Shirts made or somethin'? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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For those who weren't there, my understanding is that Dana Luther, town finance officer, recommended that the council up the town credit card limit to $5000.00 instead of $3000.00 because several times in recent months the limit has been reached on the card resulting in denied charges. Now it's my understanding that all expenses have to be approved by council (usually a 3-2 vote) so does it really matter what the limit is? They weren't voting to SPEND anything, just to be able to pay for the expenditures that have already been approved. The two CC council members (who shall remain nameless) wouldn't vote to approve. Most of the charges recently have been for the park and I guess that they couldn't bring themselves to vote for it. I don't understand why they weren't courageous enough to tell the other council members or more importantly, the citizens why they voted against it. I mean if they had a reason other than spite, isn't it possible that it was a valid reason that the other council members would like to have known about before casting their votes? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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One other thing I heard about before I check out for the evening..... That CC councilwoman (She-haw who shall remain nameless) asked if arrangements had been made for parking at the Park opening this Saturday. Ms. Beeson told her that the Parks committee had spoken with the school and arranged for buses to be moved so that the Gym lot at Summerfield Elementary could be used. She-haw then expressed concern about a handicapped parking area. When Ms. Beeson told her that the lot beside the community center would be available for that, She-haw said, "I don't have a sticker, but I have a bad back" and stated that she would need a close parking spot. I am offended by that. Sorry, but if your Dr. doesn't think you need a "sticker" does a seat on the town council override that??? Hitch a ride on a passing broom and save the parking spots for the elderly and the folks who really need it. I tried Waytago.... really I did. |
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macca Member
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A couple of observations, Crackah. I think you've shown tremendous restraint in relaying what occurred at the meeting. Was there a tremendous rolling of the eyes when nameless CC talked about needing a "handicapped" space? DOES THIS MEAN SHE'S ACTUALLY GOING TO ATTEND? Wouldn't that be a first? Also -- the idea about George being a hero. Is it too late to get t-shirts printed up for the grand opening of the park? It sure sounds as though it would be a fitting tribute to all of George's dedication!! At least the other TC members are persevering in doing what they think is right and best for the town. I would think just by continuing to do this, they will show citizens what REAL representatives are like.♥♥♥ |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
T-shirts! Pappy wears a (what else?) XXX! Hee hee! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
It's not a secret I also have a "bad back", deteriorated disks & all. Bad Backs need EXERCISE, like walking. They get stiff from lack of movement. Bad Backs are not an excuse for a political parking spot. Mark an area at the extreme end of the parking area for folks with "bad backs", I'll gladly park there, and lend Becky an arm to hang onto if she needs help exercising her bad back. Last edited on Sep 7th, 2006 01:52 am by Steve Adkins |
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Waytago Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Cracker, Cracker, Cracker..............what am I going to do with you????? As Gomer Pyle used to say.....Shayme, Shayme, Shayme And here I was depending on you for a nice friendly summary of the meeting. Tsk Tsk Tsk |
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Waytago Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Since Steve would give me a sign for innuendo's and bad words, ya'll will just have to imagine what I said. Hey SMS, can you give Scube Jane an "Ahem........" in absencia? She fessed up she had it coming, just got lazy and wouldn't retype it all. Aw Heck, I'll do it..........Ahem...................... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Ok Steve THis is it. The second time I have typed an answer on this forum hit send and had the page go blank and then eventually open up on my home page. Watago go ahead and AHEM me again. I need it. |
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StewartM Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: I'll gladly park there, and lend Becky an arm to hang onto if she needs help exercising her bad back. Boy just want I want to see...Steve and Becky walking arm in arm....... ok I' ll do it "AHEM " sorry Steve...... |
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StewartM Member
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Let's all just be nice, forget the past and enjoy the opening of our new park |
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FatPappy Member
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StewartM wrote:
Amen, brother! (At least for the day, anyway.) I'll duct tape my coot salutin' arm to my side fer the day. Hee hee! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I'll be the one wearin' the duct tape hat and the Bill Hill is my HERO T-Shirt! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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StewartM wrote: Steve Adkins wrote:I'll gladly park there, and lend Becky an arm to hang onto if she needs help exercising her bad back. There were no politics involved. I am just trying to help one of our local citizens with their back problems. OK, CJ, hand me the duct tape for my keyboard........................... AHEM..............back to topic. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Luckily Steve-O, we never seem to have trouble gettting back ON topic in this particular forum. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I just heard that Mayor Mark Brown's father passed away last night. He was very close to his dad and I am so sorry to hear that. I'd like to offer my condolences to Mark and his family. |
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macca Member
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Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that as well.... |
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FatPappy Member
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I sure am sorry to hear that! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Myself as well. Condolences to Mark Brown & Family |
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S. Smith Moderator
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The town council is having a special called meeting tonight at 6:30 at the community center. Several interesting issues will be discussed. This is not just a business meeting, so council members can vote on issues which are coming before them. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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All these years that I have lusted after cable so I could watch the Guilford County commissioners in action is over. I can now go to the Summerfield Town Council and watch BS for my entertainment. She told us tonight that we could not possibly understand her point as she accused Mark Brown of abuse of power waving her hands dismissively towards in the audience as she said it and requesting a private meeting with the attorney at tax payer expense. She further stated that she "elicited" an answer from a citizen of Summerfield in a weak momment at last council meeting that the Pud ordinance he was proposing was only for money. I thought the inquisitions were over, since when does an elected official have the right to elicit answers from a citizen in a weak moment in a public forum. Is that the way open and citizen friendly government so loudly fought for by the Concerned Ctizens works. Thanks I don't need it. Mom came in late as usual walked up and down the aisle in front of people weveral times as usual, loudly "wispered" in the back row as usual, put out her old tired "hate" propaganda as usual. It is discouraging to see this quiet, friendly town deteriorating to the level of the county but it has. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Explain to us what she said about Mark Brown? What does she mean he is abusing his power? Also, what is she wanting a private meeting with Bill Hill about? Is that allowed since he works for the entire council? Shouldn't she hire her own attorney to help her in her quest to demolish the good names of the other council members... or better yet just represent herself??? What were the results of that?? Did Bill Hill agree to meet with her? As far as the comment to the private citizen goes was she talking about when she (in my opinion) venomously SPAT that accusatory remark to Paul Milam when he proposed the council consider a PUD ordinance? Just trying to clarify. I've got to go do some "glaring." I'll check back in soon. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Sorry... I can't get over that. Abusing his power???? He can't even vote! Am I correct??? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Seems that Mark had Robin research PUDS to bring to the council. This is what BS wants to discuss with Bill Hill for probably " an hour." It is allowable because he is hired to serve the council. Then she wants to discuss it in a closed session so there is no citizen imput. Mark Brown can only vote in the case of a tie. She also was horrified that Bob Williams brought up the hiring of a private contractor after budget season for this large amount of money. I think the amount proposed is something like $2,500. That the Town would be setting a president by hiring somebody per DC. And yes The citizen was Paul at the last meeting that she elicited this confession from in a weak moment. |
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Starcatchr Member
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Once again one of our council members showed poor form in public by insulting our elected mayor and council, as well as citizens in attendance. I suspect that there are at least a few who could "understand" any point that this council member could make. Furthermore, they could, no doubt, conduct themselves in a manner befitting an elected official. This kind of behavior is egotistical and unacceptable. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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And embarassing to this town ( did I spell that right? Is there away to make spell check work on this forum? My spelling is awfull) Last edited on Sep 27th, 2006 02:44 am by DOGGETTJA |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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YOU CAN SAT THAT AGAIN. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I don't understand why BS was so concerned that the word elicit be used in the minutes. I, like Dena, had to look it up and the definition I found was "to bring or draw out; educe; to call forth, draw out or provoke". It seems that BS said doesn't it all come down to money and Paul said I don't disagree. I don't understand how that is catching him in a weak moment. It does all come down to money, but how is that catching Paul in a weak moment. The contempt she showed for him at the meeting was a disgrace. We are after all a town and should show respect to all our neighbors. Maybe if she came to a town social event (tree lighting, founders day, park opening) she might learn how to show respect to her neighbors. I sure hope the concerned citizens are proud of their representative. |
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FatPappy Member
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Are we seeing a revival of McCarthy's way; automatically guilty because you've been accused? Do those methods protect our values, or destroy them? Maybe Bill Hill will give come up with some good advice. By the way...people want the park to continue. |
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macca Member
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I don't understand, since I don't usually make it to S'field meetings (maybe I need to make a point of attending, so I have a better understanding).... What are the other Council members doing while this woman is ranting? What does the mayor do? Isn't there some way to make her understand that SHE isn't Town Council and SHE can't just go off on people like this? Wouldn't your mayor remind people from the audience to show proper respect for their elected officials? Doesn't that go both ways -- shouldn't Council members show proper respect for each other and for the citizens they represent? |
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Lacka Member
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I hope this is temporary. I think there are more people in our town that know how to behave than not! I believe the town is growing and learning from their mistakes. I have certainly heard that people are now sorry that they did not vote. Funny thing I have not heard 1 person admit to voting for DC or BS .... You think those folks are embarrassed now? |
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Lacka Member
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Hairbrush wrote: Maybe if she came to a town social event (tree lighting, founders day, park opening) she might learn how to show respect to her neighbors.HB, I think she came to the Park Opening..... didn't she? Wasn't that the event where she requested a parking space in the Handicapped area. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I am not sure she ever got out of her car and mingled with the people of Summerfield. I don't remember seeing her. If she didn't get out of her car, her lost. That was a great party!!! Yeah Park!!!!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I saw her Hairbrush. She came near the end of the celebration. The volunteer parking attendant appeared to be creating a spot for her next to the community center, but while he was doing so she buckled up and left. (Hear that Steve?? Seatbelts!) Anyway, she never got out of the car. Definitely her loss. Yay Park! |
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Lacka Member
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Cracker, so what you are saying is that she came, but sat in the car? |
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Lacka Member
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Was she greeting citizens, handing out candy to the kids thru the car window, what? Surely the two of you are joking with me. |
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StewartM Member
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No joke Lacka....... |
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Lacka Member
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Really? So she made a big deal about special parking and she did a drive by? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Lacka wrote: Really? So she made a big deal about special parking and she did a drive by? NO, it was not a DRIVE BY. A DRIVE BY suggests one slowed down, took a hard look at the festivities, and saw what was taking place. I personally witnessed Becky Strickland and her driver drive into the parking lot. They might have been in the drive for 1 minute maximum. All they were looking for was a VIP parking spot, which they weren't entitled to, and didn't exist. Therefore they backed out of the drive and drove away. Their loss. There were people in wheelchairs and crutches that made it down from the "bad back parking area", and didn't ask for VIP parking status. I am appalled by Becky's behavior on the council (yeah Dwayne, I know you're reading this, so enjoy), degrading the good names of the other members who have served so faithfully. How unprofessional !!!!! Thank heavens for the faithful and loyal service of Mark Brown, Dena Barnes, Bob Williams, and Carolyn Collins. Keep doing what you're doing please. Don't let this noise distract you from doing what's right for Summerfield. Last edited on Sep 28th, 2006 12:49 am by Steve Adkins |
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FatPappy Member
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Maybe she got what she wanted -- a reason to criticize. Who knows? I agree, Steve. Thank goodness for the decent people on the council. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: I am appalled by Becky's behavior on the council (yeah Dwayne, I know you're reading this, so enjoy), degrading the good names of the other members who have served so faithfully. How unprofessional !!!!!
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FatPappy Member
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Maybe that's something she couldn't POSSIBLY understand. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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The font in the first posting was too small to suit me, these good folks deserve a louder voice. Thank heavens for the faithful and loyal service of Mark Brown, Dena Barnes, Bob Williams, and Carolyn Collins. Keep doing what you're doing please. Don't let this noise distract you from doing what's right for Summerfield. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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BS insulted the intelligence of all at the meeting by requesting a private meeting with Bill Hill. Thinking none of her peers or the Towns people are smart enough to understand what she had to say. Or is this a way for her to say something to Bill without everyone hearing what a rude person she really is? Most people in Summerfield have a higher education and can understand reason without bias. But that is not the case here. Thank God we have someone like BS smarter than all of us here in Summerfield to tell us what to do. NOT!!! |
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Hairbrush Member
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Baseball Buddy, I agree. I was stunned when she announced that we would not understand what she was talking about. I didn't notice that she held a law degree. I guess working as a law secretary makes her smarter than me. Darn it, I guess those paralegal courses were a waste of money. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Baseball Buddy wrote: BS insulted the intelligence of all at the meeting by requesting a private meeting with Bill Hill. Thinking none of her peers or the Towns people are smart enough to understand what she had to say. Or is this a way for her to say something to Bill without everyone hearing what a rude person she really is? Most people in Summerfield have a higher education and can understand reason without bias. But that is not the case here. Thank God we have someone like BS smarter than all of us here in Summerfield to tell us what to do. NOT!!! Okay, you guys can beat me up here if you want to because I'm going to play Devil's advocate, but I just want to throw out a thought. Let's remove Becky Strickland from the picture. What if, say, Councilperson A had what they felt was a legitimate legal concern that had to do with the mayor or another council member and believed that they needed to have a conference with the town attorney before action went any further? What if that council member was, say, Bob Williams or Carolyn Collins and not Becky Strickland? Would you feel the same way? Or would you feel that a private consultation was okay? I understand that some of you have a problem with the delivery about the legal concern and how you feel that was insulting to the intelligence of other council members and of citizens. That's not what I'm talking about here. What do you think? Just food for thought...... |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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If a Council member or Mayor has a concern or problem with another, it is proper procedure to discuss it in a closed session and not publically chastise or question your peers. This has been an ongoing problem for BS and DC to try and smear the reputations of those who oppose them in any way. In other words if you have a problem with somebody tell them first in private so you can get the whole story straight so not to look STUPID in front of a crowd when you make false statements. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I don't have a problem with needing to meet with the lawyer. That is why the town has one on retainer. But I also would hope it was a legitimate concern as the fee for the lawyer is not cheap. I do have a problem with someone thinking they are smarter/better educated than someone else. Does that mean I don't expect my council members to not be better informed than me on an issue? Of course not, I would hope that the council is doing their homework and is looking at all sides of an issue as I may only be seeing one side. But do not insult my intelligence to be able to understand the issue once I hear the information. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: Let's remove Becky Strickland from the picture. What if, say, Councilperson A had what they felt was a legitimate legal concern that had to do with the mayor or another council member and believed that they needed to have a conference with the town attorney before action went any further? What if that council member was, say, Bob Williams or Carolyn Collins and not Becky Strickland? Would you feel the same way? Or would you feel that a private consultation was okay? Sandra, your comparison is valid. Speaking from my own perspective only, Becky Strickland lacks credibility with me, and I don't care who knows how I feel. Moderators have opinions too, when I see good peoples names getting smeared for no good reason, I draw the line. She ran on a platform of not spending money, or the town wasting money, regularly votes against any expenditure in the best interests of Summerfield, yet feels any town money she wants to spend (waste?)is justified. She also seems to think personnel matters can be aired in public, not executive session. Double Standards to the max. Guilty until proven innocent. Bob, Carolyn, Dena & Mark, on the other hand, regularly represent pro-Summerfield behaviors, and my own personal opinion is they would take a more professional approach and not be smearing their colleages good names on the way into the attorney's office to investigate what "might be". Good professional people. Innocent until proven guilty. Repeat, I am thankful for Bob, Carolyn, Dena & Mark. Last edited on Sep 28th, 2006 05:02 pm by Steve Adkins |
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Cracker Jax Member
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S. Smith wrote: Okay, you guys can beat me up here if you want to because I'm going to play Devil's advocate, but I just want to throw out a thought. Sandra, Thanks for playing Devil's Advocate! In answer to your question, I do think that we would be more tolerant of Bob, Carolyn, Dena or Mark if they made a request such as this. I think that's because we would be reasonably sure that these people would have a legitimate concern and would not pull a stunt such as this to suit their own agendas. They would also never try to purposely hurt someone or sully their good name. If it were another council in another town somewhere, another issue (not this stupid PUD/campaign $ thing) AND I hadn't been paying attention to the council member's track records(like so many of the voters in Summerfield) then yes, I would probably think that a councilmember's concerns needed to be investigated. I haven't really weighed in on this particular issue because I did not see it happen. However, I have been paying attention to the council members and their actions. I have witnessed BS in action before as she tries to discredit someone or ruin their good name. I have watched DC play with semantics and twist them to suit his purposes. I saw the signs they hung up at a council meeting with photos of the previous council members stating that these people were stealing our money. It is sickening. I have NEVER seen any of the other council members do that. In truth, if I felt that BS was voicing a legitimate concern and did not have an ulterior motive then I would certainly support her request. I do not feel that way at all. The fact that she called us all STUPID just adds fuel to the fire in my opinion. Mark Brown is about the "straightest arrow" I know. The CC's are really grasping at straws here. The man can't vote on the PUD ordinance so that's a moot point. As for having Robin research PUDs or whatever it was he had her do, I would hope that ANYTHING that is coming before council would be researched by the person on staff trained to do so and even more so if it was going to be one of BS or DC's "HOT TOPICS." |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Thanks Cracker DITO |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Cracker Jax wrote: If it were another council in another town somewhere, another issue (not this stupid PUD/campaign $ thing).... Mark Brown is about the "straightest arrow" I know. The CC's are really grasping at straws here. The man can't vote on the PUD ordinance so that's a moot point. As for having Robin research PUDs or whatever it was he had her do, I would hope that ANYTHING that is coming before council would be researched by the person on staff trained to do so and even more so if it was going to be one of BS or DC's "HOT TOPICS." I know this was discussed a couple of months ago when this first came up, but I'm interested to know your opinions on the connection, if any, between the PUD request and the campaign contributions Paul Milam gave to Mark Brown. By the way, the contributions were legal and were reported, as required, and Mark Brown in no way tried to hide them. We had already pulled the information on campaign contributions on all candidates at election time, so it was not news to us. Do you feel the Concerned Citizens (or whoever is putting out info on this at council meetings) are "grasping at straws," as Cracker Jax says? Is there anything wrong, in your opinions, with a council member taking contributions from a developer? Does it matter that, in this case, the mayor doesn't have a vote? Again, let's try to take the personalities out of this. Would it have made a difference if Becky or Dwayne had accepted a contribution from a builder/developer or other group? And just because you accept a contribution, does that mean your vote has been bought on all issues concerning that person or group? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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"Do you feel the Concerned Citizens (or whoever is putting out info on this at council meetings) are "grasping at straws," as Cracker Jax says? Is there anything wrong, in your opinions, with a council member taking contributions from a developer? Does it matter that, in this case, the mayor doesn't have a vote?" I feel that the concerned citizens are trying to keep alive a non issue. Does a contribution mean that person buys your vote? I would hope not. I personally would not take a contribution knowingly from a hate group or a group I had serious moral or ethical issues with but if a developer especially one that lived in the community donated I would take the donation in the same spirit I would take all donations. Mark listed his contributions, as far as I can tell the concerned citizens didn't list theirs ,I am assuming because they took in less than the required amount to have to list but do we know that they didn't take contributions from developers? I think you reap what you sow. The cc's sowed hate and mistrust and I think that is what they are reaping. I know they won the election on a platform of deceit and lies and this behavour continues at the council meetings. I don't particularly think it matters that the mayor votes or doesn't vote he/she still has a great deal of influence on direction of council. I also agree with Cracker that I think if we are going to have an interactive form of government in Summerfield then we would expect the council to consider ideas brought from the voters and that they would research these ideas. I do not think the council has the only ideas on what would be good for Summerfield. Are they just going to sit there frozen for the next two years not doing anything because we don't have a master plan? Won't they be afraid to rezone anything because they don't have a master plan. If a PUD ordinance was in place then the master plan process could refine it because if history serves us, most of the really important ordinances in Summerfield have gone through several revisions and changes over the last 10 years. |
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FatPappy Member
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Great comments! Speaking of incapacity to understand complex concepts... Recently a demonstrated need for a town truck was brought before the council. Not one, but several committees expressed this need for a variety of legitimate reasons. The council majority agreed and budgeted for a truck. Most people were able to grasp this complex concept and concluded logically from the set of facts that the council majority thought we needed a truck and lawfully arranged to buy one. One person, however, apparently got confused, jumped the track of logic and somehow ended up accusing Mark Brown of buying his buddy George a truck. Conclusion? Reality may simply be too complex a concept for some. Luckily this person seems to keep a set of alternate realities on hand for those times when that pesky current reality needs to be rejected and replaced. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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That REALLitY was clever Pappy! DOGGETTJA wrote: I don't particularly think it matters that the mayor votes or doesn't vote he/she still has a great deal of influence on direction of council. Jane, what influence does Mark have over the direction of the council that Carolyn, Bob and Dena don't have? I would think that a sitting council member (the ones who actually reside in reality world |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Cracker- The point I was trying to make was the Mayor has power as do the other members of the council whether he votes or doesn't vote. He too was elected by the people. wasn't trying to insinuate he had more power than anybody else but he doesn't have less either because he doesn't vote. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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We're on the same page there Jane, but if you take away his power to say.... direct Robin to investigate something that is coming before council or to ask Michael to look into something that might need attention before the next meeting without having prior PERMISSION from Pinky and the Brain - AND he can't vote, it would seem to me that the other council members actually have more power than Mark. Am I wrong? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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The way I understand it the council only has more power than the mayor in the fact they can vote but the mayor leads the meeting, can sign checks, usually isresponsible for seeing that the agenda is set with imput from the council. They are supporting roles between the mayor and council with the powers being not necessarily the same but all elected by the voters. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Ahem................... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Sorry Steve. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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but Steve you will have to admit you laughed out loud!!! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: but Steve you will have to admit you laughed out loud!!! Yes, actually I did. It is difficult to chide any participants for their comments given Becky Stricklands outlandish, and grossly unprofessional behavior, however, we don't want to let ourselves be reduced to that type of behavior ourselves. Must have been quite a pink outfit to stick in CJ's mind like that?? Last edited on Sep 30th, 2006 12:35 pm by Steve Adkins |
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FatPappy Member
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You're right, Steve. We don't want to stoop to callin' our elected officials names o' cartoon characters -- outta respect fer the cartoon characters. Hee hee! Meanwhile, back at the ranch, accordin' to the NWO, the latest unseemly hullabaloo concerns money, the park, and superior intellect. Apparently, the ways of superior intellect are mysterious an' may be a little dangerous. Those who wield such power must do so behind a Door of Secrecy to shield the simple-minded from knowledge of THE LAW which, of course, their inferior intellects just can't handle. Why, if thoughts generated usin' superior intellect were left lyin' around, some pitiful savage might see one an' get hurt tryin' to think with it. "Oooh, pretty! Me want idea in head, too! (thinking...thinking...) OWWW! IDEA BAD! IDEA BURN!" We can't have that. But, bein' a bear o' very little brain, I'm still a little confused about many things. For instance, instead o' drawin' the town lawyer like a gun, why couldn't Strickland initiate discussion of the problem amongst the councilmembers, workin' together as a group of equals for the good of the town? If there is a problem, why not explain what the problem is an' see if there's a way to fix it. Then, if there's no solution, take it to the lawyer. Maybe the point is not to fix something (positive). Maybe the point is to stop something (negative). I reckon we might find out one day. |
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Waytago Member
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Steve Adkins wrote:
Nice post I agree Many people in this town I talk to agree I hope the people mentioned in the above read this......Good Job Folks I hope Dwayne & Becky read this, and take it to heart. People are tired of TC members following their own agenda's, but not representing the folks of the town they are supposed to. Either step up to bat...............or go hide in the dugout, don't drag the rest of the team down. There's no "I" in team. |
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Waytago Member
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FatPappy wrote: why couldn't Strickland initiate discussion of the problem amongst the councilmembers, workin' together as a group of equals for the good of the town? If there is a problem, why not explain what the problem is an' see if there's a way to fix it. Then, if there's no solution, take it to the lawyer. Pappy, that would require a team approach by a team player. You describe how Carolyn, Bob, Dena, or Mark would handle things. Upfront & with respect toward others. |
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FatPappy Member
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Waytago wrote:Steve Adkins wrote: I'll second (or third or fourth) both them posts! Mark Brown, Dena Barnes, Bob Williams, and Carolyn Collins deserve our respect an' gratitude! |
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FatPappy Member
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Dang, a double post! Last edited on Oct 1st, 2006 07:21 pm by FatPappy |
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Skiddles Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: ... the mayor leads the meeting, can sign checks, usually is responsible for seeing that the agenda is set with input from the council. They are supporting roles between the mayor and council with the powers being not necessarily the same but all elected by the voters. It would seem to me that being the "facilitator," Mark would be the best man to have town employees look into matters posed by citizens of the town. I would think that being a good facilitator can mean finding the non-biased skinny on an issue or the necessary background information needed to assist council on their decision. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Skiddles I think you are exactly right. Besides how can you discuss a subject if there is no research or back ground information given. Should be interesting tomorrow night. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I believe the ultimate plan is to stop phase 2 of the park. Some have voiced their opposition loudly to our park and have chosen to interpret the results of the park survey differently than the experts and the majority of people in the town, BUT after attending the park opening and seeing the overwhelming support for the park, they are FINALLY realizing that there actually IS support for this venture. I think they are trying desperately to try to stop it. My guess is that the "plan" is to require that every decision made by council members, staff or COMMITTEES to be approved by council. BS called a screeching halt to the progress being made the other night when she objected to certain agenda items. Imagine what she will do when she starts micromanaging every decision made by committees and staff. This will bog things down so much that phase 2 and other projects planned will never come to fruition. It is my understanding that we have to apply for the grant by January. If we don't get our application in, we don't get the money for phase 2. They've proven that they are quite skilled when it comes to slowing down progress. |
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FatPappy Member
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'Preciate the heads up, Crackah. It's gonna be interestin'! |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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The SPARKS committee was put in place to make decisions before brought to the Town Council for vote not the other way around or am I wrong? Are we as a Town going to let 1 or 2 dictate and control what so much work has gone into? I would hope not! We as a Town cannot let this grant opportunity slip away or it will be delayed another year or more. Please don't let this happen Brother and Sister Summerfield . |
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Bubba Guest
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I just hope people learned something last Nov. All the ones I know think we are looking to the future: i.e. the park, water town hall." It will happen- this small group can't stop it", but unless they MAKE THE TIME to let the council know what the majority wants, it will never happen. We paid for a survey that states we want more parks and open spaces, but I guess some TC members need personal email-but copy to all! Or just drop by a TC meeting and let them know in person. Some still might not get it Bring on PHASE 2! 3, 4......... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Cracker- You must be reading my mind. That is exactly the same conclusion I have come to also. They will just slow every thing down by their screeching and stalling tactics and nothing will get done. The Sparcs have put in effect a plan to get the grant written and in by January. Now we just have to keep up the support efforts. |
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FatPappy Member
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Ain't nary body back from the meetin' yet? What's the scoop? Yer Pappy's a-waitin'. I been monitorin' the police band but I ain't heered o' no riots nor nuthin'. I may hafta get my beauty rest an' check in in the mornin'. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Pappy- The worse news is Robin Smith handed in her resignation tonight. Hopefully somebody else kept minutes so they can enlighten everyone to what went on but the Town is going backwards. How can Michael possibly do all the things he needs to do with all of the harrassment he is having to put up with and now has to find a planner. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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The most disappointing news tonight was at the very end, when Michael announced Robin Smith had resigned. And this was after Robin had just been moved off probation one month ago. Another BS fallout. Strickland is doing everything she can to stall & block the progress toward phase II of the park, thank heavens for 3 - 2 votes. Attorney Hill also announced he had concluded the investigation of "abuse of power" for Mayor Brown, and found no evidence of misdeeds (is anybody surprised??). |
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FatPappy Member
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Robin Smith resigned???!!! Nooooo!!! Not another one???!!! I cain't say I blame her, but dang! Need I ask why? Harassment...ain't that illegal? I thought she did a good job an' was always pleasant to work with. Is there goin' to be anybody who can get a job somewhere else that will want to work for Summerfield? |
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FatPappy Member
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How's Phase 2 a-goin'? Is the park in park or in drive? Has anybody figgered out yet if them 800 or so happy people that came out to the park openin' are for a park or ag'in a park? They looked "for" to me, but what do I know...I just live here. |
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FatPappy Member
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Via con Dios, Robin. You will be missed. |
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Lacka Member
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If we can't pay people to work for Summerfield, I guess the volunteers will continue to drop like flies.......Ghost town anyone? |
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Lacka Member
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I think the UNCG experts said that we would have a 30% return on the surveys that were sent out. Anybody got a clue as to how many we actually got back? |
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FatPappy Member
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That just makes me sick... (I mean the Robin thing, not the survey thing.) Last edited on Oct 4th, 2006 03:09 am by FatPappy |
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macca Member
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Oh, my Summerfield friends! I am so sorry to hear about your planner leaving. I never met her, but I only heard good things about her... People have to choose what is best for them, and sometimes working conditions can be detrimental to your well-being. ♥♥♥ |
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Lacka Member
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Macca, She was really great, always wore a smile and was just as professional as they come. I think she really cared about our town and the people. She did a great job and will be missed. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Lacka wrote: Macca, She was really great, always wore a smile and was just as professional as they come. I think she really cared about our town and the people. She did a great job and will be missed. Yea! And she has GREAT hair! (Ok... that one was for Robin I am so sad to hear that Robin is leaving, but I am not at all surprised. I don't know how she stuck it out as long as she did. My hat's off to her and I wish her well. Robin, you get on here (you can do that now...what can they do? Fire you?) and send me a PM and let the Crackah know if you need a letter of recommendation ok?? Let's see.... Bill Bruce... gone Bill Trevarrow... gone Robin Smith... gone. Ok...Michael B.... you're the last man standing. Be strong. |
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Lacka Member
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Hello, did you forget Dianne???? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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OOPS! I forgot to mention that Dena Barnes is my "honorary" hero for the evening!!! Dena stated tonight that she would hope that citizens could come forth with their opinions without fear of being ridiculed in public... (i.e. Paul Milam or anyone who has a view opposing BS) BS then said something to the effect that she could say the same thing... I am assuming that she meant that someone has been ridiculing her? Is that really any different than what she did to Mark, Dena, Bob, Carolyn, Jane or Mike during the days preceeding "Black Tuesday" back in November 05??? I think not. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ♥♥♥ Don't worry Bill Hill! ♥♥♥ You're still my A#1 Hero! I was sweatin' it when you went behind closed doors with that <really smarter than all of us little people> council member who was accusing our mayor of whatever it was she accused him of. I hope everyone heard the results of that meeting. Mr. Hill found NO EVIDENCE of any impro... impropri... oh shoot...
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Cracker Jax Member
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OMG! I forgot Dianne Laughlin!!!! That's 4! Oh my goodness! Sorry Dianne!!! It's the shock Lacka.... Last edited on Oct 4th, 2006 04:18 am by Cracker Jax |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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30% return on the survey is considered excellent. The only thing I can say is that inspite of the screeching the phase two is moving on. I did think it was interesting the group that continuely screams and screeches about how they are for the people and the people should have more say in the government were against the public hearings and more surveys on the park as required by PartF for the grant. PartF requires continual in put from the public since it is the public's money that is being used for the grant. I also think the cc's are barking up the wrong tree taking on Mark Brown. Mark has spent his whole adult life giving to this community. He has always put this town first. To accuse him of abuse of power is just another of their delaying tactics. Keep the Town tied up in argument and make sure nothing positive is accomplished seems to be the plan. |
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Lacka Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: You mean like Mrs. Beason was at last nights meeting? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Ms. Beeson does a good job standing her ground while under attack. The Park Committee is lucky to have her. So are we! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Does anyone know what the deal is with that Newspaper that Mom was advertising for last night? Who puts that out? I gotta feel a little sorry for them because they've recieved the "kiss of death" in my opinion. I PM'd Sandra and asked her but she won't wake up and answer me!!! |
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macca Member
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Again, I'm sorry you're having such a tough time over in S'field! Unfortunately, some folks who might have things to say aren't willing to take chances if they think they will be ridiculed, or whatever happened to your speaker last night. It's hard enough for folks to get up and talk in front of a group, but then to fear that someone will give you a hard time on top of that is just too much for some.... Maybe that's what your council members are counting on.... ♥♥♥ |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I'm sorry, but this just cracks me up. So Mom was passing out these papers to a select number of people in the audience last night. They were copies of Mark Brown's campaign flyers from the '05 election. On this flyer, someone had written (in schoolteacher form) a big ol' F- at the top of the page. Is it just me or that juvenile ??? Anyway, beside each of Mark's bullet points someone had scrawled the letter F and added their own comments as to why they think he deserved a "failing grade". For instance, where it says "Mark Brown listens to the people" the unknown writer has scrawled "No Public Comments Allowed!" Excuse me... There appear to be only 2 times when public comment is allowed in open meeting... during the "speakers from the floor" and the "PUBLIC HEARING" portions of the agenda. I'm very proud of Mark and my hero, Bill Hill for maintaining order and keeping the peanut gallery quiet so that the rest of us can hear what's going on. And.... the unknown writer added bullet points of his/her own as well. One states that "Brown is directing Town Planner to allow developer Paul Milam to write a PUD to re-zone THOUSANDS of acres in Summerfield" Is that misleading or what???? This is the same kind of thing that went out before the last election. It's starting again. Even DC seemed to understand that this PUD ordinance did not necessarily mean that property WOULD be rezoned. Milam wasn't asking for a rezoning. He was asking for the opportunity to present ideas for affordable housing in Summerfield. Any rezonings would still have to go through the proper channels and could be denied. No mention of thousands of acres ever came up. No specific property ever came up. Remarkably, it seems that the Town Core people think that their property was going to be somehow affected by this PUD ordinance because they've all shown up for those portions of the meetings. Wonder how they got that impression? DC and BS have never said that they are against a PUD ordinance. They said that they just objected to the timing.... I THINK that an opportunity arose to skew the facts and accuse Mark of wrong doing and they opted to take that route instead of listening to what Milam had to say. |
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Starcatchr Member
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Oh, No! Another great town staffer gone! Robin, we're sorry that you were misused, accused, and abused so badly that you had to leave. Thanks for the good job you've done for us. Perhaps in your next position you will find people who will work with you for the common good of the citizens you serve. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Summerfield Wake up!!!!!!!! Must we lose all the good people? I am here to stay! I will miss Robin. She was always so personal and friendly (a real person) Not one of these that ask "How are you" and not care. She cared if she asked. Let's not let this happen again. Good people are hard to find. So I say, WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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FatPappy Member
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Hee hee! Good job on the flyer, Mom! Real classy! Hey, Crackah, was it written in crayon by any chance? Is this the CC vision fer Summerfield's future? Childish lies, baseless attacks on decent people, no plan for growth except denial? In other words, more of the same? This kind of malicious an' spiteful stunt is not only insultin' to the person it's directed against, but it's a slap in the face to the good people o' Summerfield! |
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Skiddles Member
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If I may, I would like to reminisce for a moment..... I watched BS and DC (The Concerned Citizens) during the last election. I witnessed what was a TACKY and MISLEADING campaign with hurtful statements and nasty propaganda letters; they were mailed to me more than one time! They attacked good people's character and repetitions with these mass mailings of twisted truths and rude commits. The CC went to Town meetings and caused childhood disruptions displaying outbursts at inappropriate times, some even yelled explosively at the Council or Committee members to further degrade them and drive their point of no taxes, no services and no forward thinking into our minds. They continued to talk extensively after exceeding their time at the microphone causing our Mayor to ask several time to “please” be seated. They added disorder by offering loud laughing outbreaks during the meetings, paper waving… oh the “loud” paper waving and propaganda dispensing while people were trying to listen or talk, ETC> ECT<ECT… I could go on, but I won’t. All of this caused a flight of reporters to come to Summerfield and write about our town as if we were a side show carnival. Now, I am seeing the same twisted vocabulary, spins and stalls again… frankly, I don’t believe they ever stopped. Their ways confuse the public, keep the town off balance and run off any and all good people that do not see life through their darkened grey lens…I find this offensive behavior and unproductive! Their position of “we want nothing” and the heck with anyone else that doesn’t see it my way, does not represent me. I would think a Councilman who cares about our community, quality of life and your views would look at all sides of an issue, and then make the best decision on a matter for the “whole” town, not just a few. Please don’t let someone mislead you… Watch for yourself! Ask questions! Then VOTE! |
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FatPappy Member
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Skiddles wrote:Please don’t let someone mislead you… Watch for yourself! Ask questions! Then VOTE! Sound wisdom, Skiddles. |
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Waytago Member
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Skiddles wrote: Now, I am seeing the same twisted vocabulary, spins and stalls again… frankly, I don’t believe they ever stopped. Their ways confuse the public, keep the town off balance and run off any and all good people that do not see life through their darkened grey lens…I find this offensive behavior and unproductive! Their position of “we want nothing” and the heck with anyone else that doesn’t see it my way, does not represent me. I would think a Councilman who cares about our community, quality of life and your views would look at all sides of an issue, and then make the best decision on a matter for the “whole” town, not just a few. Their behavior reminds me of a Union Campaign a few years ago at my employer. Union Organizers will distribute all kinds of flyers around full of twisted "facts" and half truths to sway the "swayable" they are being taken advantage of by those in power. Just like the mailings last year, and MOM's leaflets Tuesday night. They will also create false reports to agencies such as OSHA, Labor Dept, etc, to keep the management tied up doing damage control, while they continue their "swaying" campaign. Just like BS did with Mark Brown & the false "abuse of authority" charge, that our tax dollars paid an attorney to declare a bunch of bunk. BS has probably got her next 4 false accusation strategies planned (Dena, Bob, Carolyn, Mike get ready) , it will be important for the Summerfield people to be vigilant as these ridiculous strategies are played out, and support those that get falsely accused while their names get cleared. Fortunately, the accused will have more integrity than the accuser |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Fortunately, the accused will have more integrity than the accuser 100% correct. And more credibility. |
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Skiddles Member
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Waytago wrote: They will also create false reports to agencies such as OSHA, Labor Dept, etc, to keep the management tied up doing damage control, while they continue their "swaying" campaign. Just like BS did with Mark Brown & the false "abuse of authority" charge, that our tax dollars paid an attorney to declare a bunch of bunk. Unfortunately Waytago, I believe you are right on target! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Indecision is in fact, a form of decision. (By choice I might add). Inaction is in fact, an action. (Again, by choice I might add). Simply not liking or disapproving of the behaviours of what a political opponent is doing or has done, is not a pro-active choice, nor a prudent course of response as a political decision or political action. There is an old saying that sausage and legislation should never been seen in the making. The question is, for those who don't like what they are seeing: What decisions and/or what actions must or should be taken as a pro-active response by both individuals and/or groups? Like managerial decisions, all political decisions fall under one of only two categories: management (decisions and actions) by reaction or management (decisions and actions) by objective. The choices are yours. Use them wisely. |
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Lacka Member
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Hey Cracker can you translate what Jim just said? |
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FatPappy Member
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Either spend yer time dodgin' their dirt clods or throw a few o' yer own? Plan yer work an' work yer plan? Do it an' then talk about it? Hey, Crackah! |
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macca Member
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Tee hee, Pappy! I think Crackah's been "Lost" but maybe himmer will be found soon! Wonder how many of us it will take before we get it right? Will Jim give us the signal when we do??? ♥♥♥ |
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Jim Flynt Member
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macca wrote: Wonder how many of us it will take before we get it right? Will Jim give us the signal when we do??? ♥♥♥ But of course. Of course, it will be much more meaningful if the answer comes from within you (the Summerfieldians) rather than from me (the outsider). As a 'clue' to what I am suggesting, please remember that two of the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People are: Always start with an end in mind. To be understood, one must first seek to understand. Last edited on Oct 5th, 2006 02:28 am by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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macca wrote: Wonder how many of us it will take before we get it RIGHT? Will Jim give us the signal when we do??? ♥♥♥ Actually Macca, when anyone/whomever gets it RIGHT, the Summerfield voters WILL GIVE YOU the SIGNAL (in the elections to come). (Which, BTW, is a heckuva lot more important than any signal I could ever give). |
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macca Member
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Speaking strictly from an outsider's view, it seems that folks have kind of sat back and taken junk from these folks all these months and are beginning to decide now that they aren't going to do that any more.... Which should result in some positive changes for Summerfield!!! Congratulations! Of course, I'm sure it's still going to take a lot of work to make sure that enough people stand up to them to make a difference. The way they were able to get elected was that everyone took for granted that they did not have enough support to get elected. The important thing in the next election will be to make sure that is so...♥♥♥ |
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Jim Flynt Member
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macca wrote: Of course, I'm sure it's still going to take a lot of work to make sure that enough people stand up to them to make a difference. The way they were able to get elected was that everyone took for granted that they did not have enough support to get elected. The important thing in the next election will be to make sure that is so...♥♥♥ Memo to Macca: (SIGNAL) You GOT IT! |
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Lacka Member
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macca wrote: Speaking strictly from an outsider's view, it seems that folks have kind of sat back and taken junk from these folks all these months and are beginning to decide now that they aren't going to do that any more.... Macca now think about this for a minute. You know what we are like over here. There are many things that we could do to LOWER ourselves, but that is just not us. You know that!! We will always rise above and never stoop to their levels. We may be tired of their junk, but we will never fight dirty. It is just not in us. And besides all that haven't you heard that we are not as smart as them? I do agree with the rest of what you are saying tho I have invited you for a flying lesson on maan. |
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macca Member
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Oh, Lacka! I didn't mean that folks should fight dirty! In fact, I think part of what has happened is that people have been too NICE to them but are now deciding that you can't really do that, because they play dirty.... So you just have to work to educate more and more people to their tactics so it becomes clear to everyone what they are really doing. You know, like in the Wizard of Oz, when the wizard is exposed to be just a man... He says, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....." Still hoping to keep his power. I have every confidence in my Summerfield friends that you will prevail, and in a way that maintains the dignity and honor of your beloved hometown! ♥♥♥ |
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Skiddles Member
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Power is in education. By sharing what we know about our town's issues past, present and future is something we all can do. Talk to your friends and neighbors. Spark an interest. Encourage conversation and give resourses.. NWO paper, the forum, town meetings, etc. More importantly talk about the importance of getting to the poll and voting. I bet many don't even think that they have the power to make a difference by casting their one little vote. BUT they CAN make a difference. Our last election was so close, just a few could have made a change in today's Council. Jim you are absolutely correct... look at where we need go, set goals and head that way. Every little bit helps. We certainly can do this with honesty and with class. |
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Waytago Member
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Skiddles wrote: Power is in education.
I agree with Skiddles comment, but will state it a little differently.......Knowledge is power. The above comments are exactly what we need. A grass roots campaign to overcome the forces that are negatively impacting our fine town. As Jim states, an objective is needed. This will take an organized effort, much like the "Concerned Citizens" pulled off last year. Except this group of "concerned citizens" needs to be for real, not the phonies of last year. |
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Skiddles Member
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Waytago wrote: ...Knowledge is power. Waytago, Waytago... I believe you said it even better! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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So how do we put the positiveness back in Summerfield? How do we form a grassroots group. Are there enough core people to get it started? |
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Waytago Member
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Only one way to find out. Get one going. Do it very publicly. Give the group a very positive name, ie Pro Summerfield. Keep all objectives positive, keep all behavior positive, but that doesn't mean to sit with a smile and keep your hands folded in your laps. Be aware of the magnet theory, ie opposites attract, like repels. Ensure CC's are invited to the meetings so they'll be sure not to show. Don't duck from controversy, meet it head on, in a positive way. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: So how do we put the positiveness back in Summerfield? My question to you is, what is your objective in taking any action? Obviously, to suggest, what can be done to put something back, advocates for a change from the status quo. Therefore, are you clear in that your message is for change? And what changes would you/do you advocate from the status quo? David Campbell of the Center For Creative Leadership in Greensboro wrote a book once entitled, If You Don't Know Where You're Going, You'll Probably End Up Somewhere Else. As well, at the Center for Creative Leadership, it is a given fundamental, that the one essential, vital characteristic of every leader is that the leader must have followers. Without 'followers' there are no leaders and there is no leadership with even the greatest of ideas or principles. Where is it you would go? Where is the 'promised land' you would lead to, so to speak? Do a majority of citizens (read: voters) want you to take them "there"? How do you know that? Seriously? Have you conducted any type of indepth polling or attitude survey? Isn't it fair to say that the assessment made prior to the last election in Summerfield of voter attitudes was in fact terribly misread by those in the status quo? Be honest now in answering that. So, my question to you, is have you identified your 'followers' whom this group would serve to 'lead' and have you 'polled' them as to where it is they want you to lead them to? Simply to slap together the newest 'committee' simply to restore positiveness serves no useful function other than to satisfy the urge to react. With all of the great university resources available to citizens of the Northwest part of Guilford County, it occurs to me that perhaps one of the political science departments or classes at UNC-G, Wake Forest or Guilford College would be glad to assist in writing and then conducting an indepth telephone survey/poll of attitudes, wishes and needs of the Summerfield citizens. On top of providing a yardstick of measuring whether or not the larger group of voters/citizens might or might not agree with what you as a group/ leader might think their attitudes, wishes and needs are, this would greatly assist you in preparing an objective roadmap to whatever objectives and/or goals the larger consumer audience (who just happens to vote by the way) and your 'leadership' group can agree on. Like it or not, in the game of politics, it is only those 'leaders'* who win who will have power to make change. And if you're not playing to win, then by default, you're playing to lose. And by so doing, you're simply rolling over and handing over the power to effectuate change, to those with a different agenda. So, in the end, I suggest to you that David Campbell is in fact correct. If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably end up somewhere else. *(Note: Whether or not you personally believe the 'other side' deserves to be called 'leaders' is understandable, yet the fact remains, when any voting group of 'followers' has their say in the voting booth, the 'leaders' winning the most votes has in fact, captured and perhaps shares the self interests of the larger group of followers. They become the leaders and the other candidates, become by default, the losers. At least in that election cycle.) Last edited on Oct 6th, 2006 12:23 am by Jim Flynt |
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Waytago Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: As well, at the Center for Creative Leadership, it is a given fundamental, that the one essential, vital characteristic of every leader is that the leader must have followers. Without 'followers' there are no leaders and there is no leadership with even the greatest of ideas or principles. I agree there must be clear goals in order to have a firm direction. (Was it Forrest Gump?? - If you don't know where you're going, how are you going to know when you get there??) The initial goals need to be something along the lines of re-establish stability in our town, and support the TC members who feel like they're battling the devil. A year from now, the goal needs to be keeping votes 3-2 in Summerfields favor with pro Summerfield candidates. There needs to be more rounds of applause like the other night when the right things are done, in spite of the naysayers. Right now, people seem hesitant to show support. In this case, the groundswell are the ones at the TC meetings. It's pretty obvious from the facial expressions, the rolling eyes, the disgusted looks, there are few supporters in the audience of the loose cannons at the front table. Voter attitudes may have been mis-read last time around, but let's not forget, voters were being fed a steady stream of lies & misrepresentations. Many people are realizing their votes were mistakes. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Waytago wrote:
Ah, but therein lies the rub. Such is the nature of modern political campaigns. How do you think Jesse Helms continued to win election after election? Misrepresenting your opponents views or distorting their voting record is de rigeur in political campaigns and contests all over America. You may not like it (most polls show that most Americans don't), BUT, in fact, most voters go on to respond to and vote based on those misrepresentations and half-truths. I am not saying you have to be comfortable with it nor embrace it, but a candidate cannot afford to be unmindful of that reality, and still expect to win. How many political ads have you ever seen on television or heard on the radio, where you said to yourself, gee, now there's a guy who's telling the truth? We all tend to see and perceive things through the lens of bias of our own filters. Last edited on Oct 6th, 2006 12:56 am by Jim Flynt |
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Waytago Member
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Not sure about all that..........but fear of future pols campaign tactics is not a reason to sit back and accept the current deceivers shenanigans. The non-deceivers deserve support for doing what's right. And I truly believe Dena, Mark, Bob, and Carolyn did not run a campaign of mis truths, I think they are good grass roots people with a pro Summerfield stance. Their voting records prove it. Voters overall are intelligent people, their opinions are only as good as the information they receive or seek out. The "seek out" variety are those seen at TC meetings wanting to see things for themselves, or asking good questions in the right way. |
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FatPappy Member
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So much o' this whole thang in my opinion depends on how you define "win" an' whether that end justifies any means. Whatever goal you set out to achieve, if you try to get there by lyin' to people whose only value to you is in their usefulness as pawns in a game, then I b'lieve you've already lost, even if you win. Votes or voters, which is more important? Are they the same? Naive? Not necessarily. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I think we're actually talking of setting a tone and a direction. In terms of "winning", we're already winning. We have a park that people fought against, the decision making process at the TC meetings is still pro-Summerfield thanks to 3 - 2 votes. The question is, can we set a tone to keep winning, or sit back & watch the votes swing to 2 - 3 after the next election? The basic foundation is being chipped away with the loss of good qualified staffers, and basic behavior of one TC member. Reminds me of a car battery.....you might have 6 good cells, but if one goes bad, it drags the other 5 down with it. We can't let that happen |
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FatPappy Member
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I hear what yer a-sayin', Steve, but I reckon yer math's off by one. I count two bad cells a-leakin' acid. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jane or somebody, Pappy's got a question. We hear accusations an' insinuations but we rarely hear the outcome. Fer example, in the last meetin' Citizen Dunham accused the town of ignorin' her request fer a copy o' the town charter, leavin' the implication, intentional or not, that her request had been ignored an' her rights had been denied. How is it possible fer the average citizen to find out the truth of the matter? I think in all fairness, the answer should be made as public an' prominent as the accusation. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Pappy there are several problems with the lies and insinuations. The CCs fronted by MOM have requested probably at this point thousands of documents going back to the chartering of the town looking for I am not sure what. I guess to prove that Bill Peterson and all the council since him were crooked and misspending the tax payers money. This has been going on for 3 or 4 years. The Town spends a tremendous amount of time and machinery to copy all these documents ie tax payers money. They do pay a copy fee. We are now down to 2 employees so which one stops his or her job to accomodate the Freedom of information act requests that in this case are pure harassment. To my knowledge in the 10 years that the Town has been in existance there has been only one enity rmaking these reqests ie Concerned citizens in the form of Mom, BS and DC. I think the requests are a blatant abuse of power on the part of the CC and done purely to impede the Town from conducting its business. So did she request the charter under the freedom of Information act? It would appear she did? Has she been denied her rights it would appear not? It is a matter of how important is the request in the course of everything else these 2 people have to do. The request for the charter was the latest of the things Mom complained about. Maybe we should make sure and start checking out all her insinuations to see how true they are. |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged, Jane. Sounds like they have their own Freedom of Insinuation racket goin' on. I'll add it to my list. Hey, did I just insinuate somethin' by sayin' that? Hee hee! |
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Waytago Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: The Town spends a tremendous amount of time and machinery to copy all these documents ie tax payers money. They do pay a copy fee. We are now down to 2 employees so which one stops his or her job to accomodate the Freedom of information act requests that in this case are pure harassment. Another close parallelism to Union Campaigns. Keeping the town management tied up with useless non value added activities while the troublemakers continue their shenanigans. Seems like the town needs to raise the fee charged for copying, to see if all these important FOIA requests remain at a higher fee. |
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macca Member
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If I remember correctly from the time the Rhino pushed this issue, they can only charge what their actual costs are, and the salary of staff cannot be figured into that cost... So it would have to be documented by the cost of paper, supplies, electricity, etc. The Town woud have to come up with a uniform cost of copies and may even have to have it posted. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Read today's edition of the Guilford Record that was being touted by "Citizen Dunham" One statement in Mr. Seals recap of the TC meeting really stood out to me..... From Page 6: "Mr. Hill was surprised we didn't have a policy in place to handle such situations - 10 years after being incorporated," Strickland said after the meeting. That's not what he said in the meeting. Maybe he said it in closed session. Or maybe he said it at the special "mensa" meeting. Either way, I thought we hired Bill Hill to be the mouthpiece for the Town Council.... Not the other way around. Note to Mr. Seals... When they chase you out the door, RUN! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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You know Cracker until the advent of the Concerned Citizen's and the Summerfield "witch hunts" we didn't need those policies. The council respected each other and the voters. We all knew we had a responsibility to maintain the integrity of the town. No more is that true. Everything and Everybody is fair game for redicule with the cc's. You know I wonder if BS was discussing things that went on in closed session with the newspaper? |
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FatPappy Member
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I wonder who all that feller talked to? He missed the point about why Robin was leavin' not too far behind Bill Trevarrow, Bill Bruce, an' Dianne Laughlin too. There's a story there, Seals! He also spelled my hero, George Holub's name wrong. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I thought about that too Pappy. I think Sandra did a fantabulous job reportin' the "real deal" on the Robin Smith abdication in the NWO. And Sandra always spells Holub correctly.
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Hairbrush Member
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I wonder why it isn't okay for the mayor to ask for information, but is is okay for BS to breath over the necks of the town employees and ask them for information. Isn't that an abuse of power? If I was Michael and Mr. Hill I sure would make sure these new policies and procedures cut out the noise that the town employees (now one employee) get from BS. |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Good job, Sandra! |
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Skiddles Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
It's pretty obvious that Ms Strickland was going for our Mayor (old scenario). Now that her plan of attack has lead to a dead end, she is doing her twist and shout dance to make what she started (an attack on a "good" man, so she can keep her thumb on him) still come out in her favor... "Mr. Hill was, was suprised..." geeze! |
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FatPappy Member
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Hairbrush wrote:I wonder why it isn't okay for the mayor to ask for information, but is is okay for BS to breath over the necks of the town employees and ask them for information. Isn't that an abuse of power? HB, you don't reckon that's one o' them complex concepts that us simple folk just cain't understand, do you? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Well gang, since the closest I got to the TC meeting tonite was flying over on final approach to GSO, can someone give an update what went on? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Where to start, Steve. Armfield's/Summerfield LLC has finally after years of dragging their feet on giving the park to Summerfield come up with a plan. While BS and DC thanked them profusely for their gift they should have never been allowed to build a house on Armfileld's with out that land having been deeded to the town. The park was a condition of their developing. Instead of 90 acres of passive park the town will get 30 acres of unlit fields on the road and $50,000 a year for 5 years to spend on capital improvements, I believe it is, for parks. The Town has to put in 51% and Armfield will match 41% up to the 50,000. It is a compromise but certainly not the grandiose park we were promised at the time of rezoning. There was quite a rangle over Mom and her request for a written opinion on the Mayor's abuse of power which it was finally decided had been answered several months ago. BS tried to get a vote on the Town providing the attorney's time and providing her with a written brief. I have several legal issues I would like an opinion on. Wonder if the Town will provide me with Mr. Hill's services at tax payer expense. Mom also apparently had comments indicating that the other three members along with Mark Brown had conspired and met illegally for what I am not sure. Carolyn certainly put her straight on that. DC pushed for a notification to go out to all of Summerfield that their garbage was going up approximately 45 cents. Michael has authority to spend up to a $1,000 on that. The contract with Republic is to be signed. BS pushed at great length to have an admendment added to the company that has been awarded the contract already to do phase 2. Seems it did not specifically mention in the contract they they were to use the Dr. Sellars survey. Michale pointed out that the contract did not stipulate they would use aerials but that they would. That failed for lack of a motion. Bill Hill alos pointed out the contract was signed and an admendment would have not bearing on anything. Michale advised they already had the survey as part of the information gathering part. Many other things happened but I have run out. Were there other there who can pick up and catch Steve up? |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged, Jane. What about the town web site? Is DC gonna be able to get into that an' add, delete, or alter the official information the public sees? Will the others know enough about it to know if he's up to somethin'? That situation bothers ol' Pappy. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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That bothers me too Pappy. I don't think the council knew what they were doing when they gave Crawford the power to "update" the town's website. I don't think that's a good idea since he hasn't shown good judgement in the past. Hopefully that will not happen with the new website. I don't think ANY council member should unilaterally have the right to post the information they choose on the town site. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I too was surprised at the length that DC was thanking Summerfield Properties for being such an example to other developers. Please!!!!! The only reason the town is getting a park is because they need to build more houses and the Town could prevent that. Obviously they were not too concerned with the original agreement of 90 acres as they had already built some houses on it. The only example they set is that if you drag your feet long enough and use the town reasons for long enough they will settle for something less. I am not saying that this park that they will deed might not be a great park but it was the original deal and I don't care if you were a silent partner and had to fire someone for mis-managing your project. Also I have to wonder what stipulations come with the $50,000 a year the town will get. It has to be used for Capital projects so I am sure there are some rules to be followed there. But what if the town doesn't have any capital projects for that year? Do we lose the money? I would hate to see the town just spend money to spend money. And what is up with Dwayne wanting Michael to take time out of his day and take money out of my pocket by sending out a letter saying our garbage bill is going up. I think that Republic can handle that just fine and if I don't won't to pay the .45 then I will just cancel my contract. And BS called us town members stupid. And while I am on a roll. What was up with Mom getting to ask questions during Summerfield Properties presentation. I am not saying the questions weren't good ones, but it wasn't a public hearing. She gets up there and spouts about the rules and who is breaking them, but I guess the rules aren't for her. And as much as I think the Mayor does a great job that should have been shut down. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I have to defend Dwayne on the website. He will not be the only person who updates. The agenda of the website will be something that the Council will agree on. He is very knowledgeable about websites and has been working on the website since he got elected along with the clerk and the web master. Scott will be the webmaster. |
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FatPappy Member
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Too bad ol' Dwayne don't read the forum (wink, wink) so he could see you agreein' with him, Jane. Hee hee! I'd hate for the town website to be taken over by the CC the way the town meetin's have been. I wish I felt more trust toward 'em. On the other hand, the website has been in pretty bad shape. I wouldn't mind seein' somebody take it under their wing an' make somethin' more useful out of it. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Sorry, this is a long one..... There was also a discussion about potential land for our ball fields last night. One parcel is approximately 20 acres located on 220 where there was an auto salvage yard (Mark said the cost was $33,000 - $36,000 per acre) Because of the nature of the businesses housed on this land, an environmental study would be needed to see what costs, if any, would be necessary to clean the land. This piece is rectangular and well suited for ball parks. The other is approximately 25 acres ($26,000 per acre) on Summerfield Road owned by Mr. Friddle. The layout of this piece is not "rectangular" and it is unknown if ball fields would even fit on this parcel. Someone also holds the first right of refusal on this land and that would need to be relinquished before the town considers negotiations. Bob Williams wanted to look at both properties in order to save time and get the ball fields started sooner. If one piece wouldn't work for some reason, then we wouldn't have to wait until the next council meeting to direct Michael B. to research the other piece. Bob's reasoning, I think, was that it isn't going to cost us anything to look at the Friddle property (other than Michael's time) and if Bill Hill (a.k.a. CJ's hero) could look at the first right of refusal issue, then things would be in place to move on the Friddle property if the 220 land falls thru. Williams also made an excellent point about the 220 land. He stated that we needed to obtain our own "first right of refusal" on the 220 property before we spend thousands of dollars on an environmental study. We don't want to do the leg work and spend thousands of dollars for clean up and then some developer comes in at the last minute and buys that land.... Mark seemed upset by that. He said that the owners aren't planning to sell to anyone else. Problem is, you just can't trust people these days. Bob Williams stated that he owned property near the Friddle land and that sure, he'd prefer to see houses next to his land, but the need for ballfields outweighed his "wants" and if this was the piece of land that worked, then he was all for it. Strickland, who stated that she has always been a "proponent" of ball fields (ok.. am I the only one who is surprised by that statement?), asked that we do everything we can to "speed up the process" and only look at the 220 land......the MORE EXPENSIVE parcel. The fact that Strickland didn't want to even look at the Friddle property makes one wonder why.... Could it be because she lives around the corner and doesn't want ball fields in her backyard? I believe we've heard that before. There's much more info on the council meeting posted on the other website. PM me if you need the address. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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HB You are on a roll this morning. I think what has happened to the 90 acres that was the original park offering is they will need it for off site septic in the next phase. I think what happened is when they made the offer to begin with they didn't realize how much good soils was on that 90 acres. They thought it was flood plain, gullies and unusable for development. I think this 39 acres being offered is much better for what the town needs but still they didn't do this out of the goodness of their heart or any civic responsibility. |
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macca Member
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Thanks for the other posting, CJ. Very enlightening. ♥♥♥ |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Good post, Crackah. Sorry to take so long respondin', but I musta blacked out fer a little bit after readin' that proponent part. She does seem awful eager to direct our attention up yon way on 220. Since we got a bird theme goin' today, mebbe it's like them curlews that nest on the ground. If anybody gets too close to their nest, they'll act like they got a broke wing an' try an' lure the intruder away with what looks like a easy target. I dunno. |
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FatPappy Member
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Hairbrush wrote:And what is up with Dwayne wanting Michael to take time out of his day and take money out of my pocket by sending out a letter saying our garbage bill is going up. I think that Republic can handle that just fine and if I don't won't to pay the .45 then I will just cancel my contract. And BS called us town members stupid. Good post, HB. His entire raison d'etre as a council member seems to involve personal agendas an' silly little "gotchas" that he wants other people to pay for. Well, looky thar. I just happen to have 45 cents right here in my pocket! Hee hee! Now I can afford to throw away that Illinois Taxpayer mailer I got. |
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FatPappy Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:I think this 39 acres being offered is much better for what the town needs but still they didn't do this out of the goodness of their heart or any civic responsibility. They could at least up it to 40 acres an' throw in a mule. You'd think they would have been given a harder time over it. That's the time when BS should holler at a developer. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I agree. What is the big deal about this developer. Didn't other developers put in trails. I think the vineyards hook into the trail system and I think Henson Forest might have trails though I am not sure about that. And then they wanted (BS & DC) to hold a public hearing so the public could say what "I don't think the town should take the land", but yet they didn't want a public hearing for the PUD? Come on now at least be consistent. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Thanks for all the updates SMS |
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Hairbrush Member
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Scuba Jane, I tossed and turned all night thinking about DC and that website. I think actually the wind kept me up. I thought I was in the land of Oz and imagine my disappointment when I got up this morning and didn't see a pair of pink shoes sticking out of my foundation, but back on topic. I certainly agree that DC ought to be on the committee to help decide on the town's web designer. He seems to have tons of knowledge, but I really worry about a council person having the ability to edit the website. What if he decided to put up something about his own agenda on the website or to change information to mislead the public. I hate to think something like that would happen in Summerfield. But then again I never knew people could be so nasty to other people and still get elected, so go figure. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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HB Ok so beat me for thinking the best of people. I understand that allowing the fox to guard the hen house is not a good idea and what you all warned about has already in fact happened. Unauthorized material appearing on the Town website. I am disappointed that when it comes to the good of the community that people can not step above their political leanings and we come together as a community. |
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Waytago Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Unauthorized material appearing on the Town website. I have to admit I don't understand. I went thru the website, and was not able to pick out what you are indicating is unauthorized. Would you pls elaborate? I'm not challenging what you're saying, just trying to understand. Thx. WTG |
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Bubba Guest
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Hairbrush wrote:I certainly agree that DC ought to be on the committee to help decide on the town's web designer. He seems to have tons of knowledge, but I really worry about a council person having the ability to edit the website. I personally do not want anyone in the town hall overseeing the website- as far as updating or maintaining- Why not use the NCLM a nice third party with no political agendas or inside hacking abilities? I know it would cost a little more, but I like the idea of NCLM it would help us be contacted to others in NC. |
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Waytago Member
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Bubba wrote: Why not use the NCLM a nice third party with no political agendas or inside hacking abilities? I know it would cost a little more, but I like the idea of NCLM it would help us be contacted to others in NC. Dang, I'm starting to feel like a dumb-bell tonight. Can you elaborate on what NCLM is, and how they would better fit in as a web site administrator pls? Thx WTG |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Sorry Waytago...We don't want anyone to feel like that!!! NCLM is the North Carolina League of Municipalities. Oak Ridge uses them to maintain their website and SF tossed around the idea of using them until Dwayne suggested our very own "firecracker" (NWO website designer, Scott Redmon) for the job. The only problem I see with Bubba's suggestion is that someone from Town Hall has to feed the info to the NCLM. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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WTG- I believe the unauthorized material was removed the first of the week. I did not see it was just PM'd by several people who did. I am disturbed that in all the years we have had a website this has never been a problem until now. The Concerned Citizens ran on a plank of trust. The Town is spending a $1,000, because DC wanted open honest government, to tell you your garbage service is going up 3.8% or maybe 45 cents, but it is ok for him a members of the concerned citizens/ council member to put his own agenda on the Town's website without authorization. It just blows my mind. The NCLM is the NC legue of Municipalities. They are a think tank and organization that assists municipalities in running their towns efficiently and legally. Great people. Great service. Very helpful. Not sure whether they run websites or not. Certainly somebody in the town would have to do the day to day entrees and somebody hopefully the Town Council in total would decide what is included on the website. Hopes that catches you up. |
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Bubba Guest
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Maybe the Town Administor, but it's a big job, Can he just forward email reports to NCLM. Can they maintain it? probably a web master is needed? Just my opinion, but I have a hard time with the trust thing with DC involved. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Waytago wrote: DOGGETTJA wrote:Unauthorized material appearing on the Town website. Several months ago, Dwayne requested that he be allowed by the council to "update" the town's website because it was terribly out of date. The council, being the trusting souls that they are, allowed it and now he has access to the behind the scenes working of the town's website. On Tuesday, folks who visited the front page of the town's site (to look for the TC agenda or whatever) were treated to a document that the Concerned Citizens bring out from time to time stating that SF wouldn't charge a tax. Today when I checked, the document was no longer there. |
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Bubba Guest
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Funny thing about that document- After the words no taxes, it said we get enough from the county that we won't need any taxes and if we did- the council could up taxes by .20 before they would have to get a public vote on it. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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It is funny Bubba, that they always leave that part out when they are using it in their grandstanding. Typical. Obviously, you remember that back when that document was written, we were receiving money from the county. The county took that money away after we incorporated. Just to remind people, we are charged a tax because the county won't give us any money unless we are taxed by the town. If we had no tax, we wouldn't get ANY money from them. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: WTG- I believe the unauthorized material was removed the first of the week. I did not see it was just PM'd by several people who did. Obviously, since I wasn't the one PM'ing Jane about the suspect documents, other people saw it too. I am very happy to hear that! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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No Cracker you didn't tell me. I got several messages from people after I naively posted about DC being allowed to work on the website. How dumb am I? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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One thing I do know about you Jane is that you are no dummy!!!! We were all naive once. Back when we were happy and proud of our town. Back when folks offered favors and didn't have their own political reasons for offering. Back when we weren't afraid that someone was going to mangle every word that we wrote or spoke. |
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macca Member
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IMHO, it must take a truly miserable person to try to ruin what has been a creative and entertaining outlet. |
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FatPappy Member
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If that childish oaf wants a playground, let him come on here an' play. He needs to keep his stinkin' hands off the town website! Even I got sense enough to know that's a serious no-no! Is that an impeachable offense? What has Dwayne done for this town except promote his own twisted personal agenda? What's he doin', tryin' to vicariously get even with ever'body who picked on him in high school? Somethin' ain't right there... |
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Hairbrush Member
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Here is an email that was forwarded to me. Seems that DC was calling people out. I only changes I made was to leave everyones name out. See what you think. It is a little long but worth reading. Dwayne, I don’t know who you think you are but you have the wrong person, but since you have decided to harass me then here you go. You were somehow voted by some of the people in the Town of Summerfield to sit on the council. With that comes some trust. I don’t have any problems with the document, but I do have problems with someone just posted a document on a town run website without proper channels being followed. You are trying to be a bully and I am tired of it. You speak like you speak for the whole town and that is just not true. Get over yourself. You once said a long time back that you didn’t want things to be political yet you just can’t help yourself. That flyer is way outdated and without all the information. If the county hadn’t decided to take our money away then you are right we would not need a tax, but if we are going to act a like a town then we need some income. And oh let’s talk about sweat equity that you are so big on. I get every morning so I can work my 40 to 50 hour job so that I can pay my taxes to the government. That is my sweat equity and I happen to want a park and a few other things in this town and am that wrong. Hell No!!!!!!! I am a tax paying citizen who takes her voting very seriously (that is why you didn’t get my vote). So don’t talk to me about whether I put my sweat equity in. I work hard to afford the home and things I have and I pay my property taxes. At least I am not frivolous spending a $1000 so that the town can waste its time informing me that my garbage service is going to up. Imagine what we could really do with that money. You know why don’t you just take your document and put it out on the table at the council meetings with your chicken scratch on it and make sure you don’t tell the whole story like Ms. Dunham does. You know that is really classy. I have an even better idea. Why don’t you expand your horizon and attempt to meet the members of the town that you don’t think understand your point of view. Calling them at 9:30 at night when someone gets up around 5:00 in the morning to start their day just doesn’t cut it. You know as a town we do wonderful things like the Christmas tree lighting, founder’s day and I would have been happy to have conservation at the park opening but you didn’t seem to stick around long enough. You don’t know better than me and you can’t decide what I need without attempting to get to know me and this childish game of I know who you are and I am going to tell everyone is just in plain bad taste. Grow up!!!!! You know, you guys really tickle my funny bone.... That document you're referring to over on the forum (http://nwobserver.mywowbb.com) is an authentic piece of Summerfield history. As one of the two principal founders, Bill Peterson possesses and occasionally passes to me many useful/interesting documents related to the Town of Summerfield. That 'unauthorized material' you all are having such a wonderful time shredding to pieces is just one of many such documents. It is legitimate, it is the essence of our founding, and as much as you may wish it didn't exist, IT IS an inescapable part of this town's history. The document and the email Bill sent to me to convey it, I now forward to you - both are unaltered from original. Now let me get this straight, it is your position (all of you on the TO list) that this document SHOULD NOT BE posted on our town web site where all citizens can find it? In other words, you wish to oppress this document, right? If so, please, please, give me that in writing. Dwayne P.S. This email includes dozens of BCC recipients. I was cleaning my hard drive and found the attachment. I think I remember saying I'd send you a copy of the flyers but I don't remember doing it. I have a few different renditions still on my computer. The attachment is typical let me know if you want the others |
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FatPappy Member
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I would say I've lost trust in him but I never had any to lose. |
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FatPappy Member
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Hairbrush wrote:
OOOOHHH, it's a scary trap! How will we ever get out of it? Dwayne, I don't know if I'm on the TO list or not, but I wish you would get something straight. ANYTHING. It is my position that YOU do not get to decide ON YOUR OWN what goes on the town website. That's the point. I don't care if you do have a note from your Mom or not. Last edited on Nov 17th, 2006 12:50 pm by FatPappy |
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Hairbrush Member
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Exactly, putting stuff on the website without proper channels is pushing your own agenda and it is wrong to use a town service for that. |
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FatPappy Member
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Thanks fer postin' that, Hairbrush! |
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Bubba Guest
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Thanks for sharing HB He doesn't seem to get it does he. the honest part. Yea it said no taxes, but the next words on the flyer are the explanations for if we did have to TAX. Did he not read any further after he got what he wanted with the no tax thing. |
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FatPappy Member
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Bubba wrote:Yea it said no taxes, but the next words on the flyer are the explanations for if we did have to TAX. Did he not read any further after he got what he wanted with the no tax thing. Good point, Bubba! He seems a little deperate an' confused lately. I wonder if the oracle he consulted left that part out o' the translation. |
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SaltyDog Member
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In my opinion here are the issues: 1. How is it decided what content is posted on the Town's Website? The answer to this question does not depend on the content itself. It just happens in this instance that the posted document is controversial. I don't know what the town's policy is about this - does Dwayne have carte-blanche to post on his own whim? Here is what he wrote. Now let me get this straight, it is your position (all of you on the TO list) that this document SHOULD NOT BE posted on our town web site where all citizens can find it? In other words, you wish to oppress this document, right? If so, please, please, give me that in writing. It seems that Dwayne is getting confused - The issue is not whether or not the document should be suppressed (no one is suggesting that) but rather who gets to decide what is posted on the Town's website. Perhaps Dwayne needs to give us - in writing - where he has been given the authority to post what ever he personally determines is appropriate on the website without council approval. 2. The 'No Tax' pledge was based on conditions that existed in 1996 when it was the policy of county commissioners to distribute sales tax revenues to municipalities. We all know that during the economic slump of 2001-2003 the State Government could not balance their budget so they kept more of the county's sales tax money in Raleigh - this in turn caused the county commissioners to change their policy about distribution to municipalities. With that change in the revenue stream the Town of Summerfield had to rethink its tax policy. Dwayne seems to have a problem understanding this. 3. Please forgive my ignorance but is it in fact a part of the town charter that a vote must be held for taxes above 20 cents? Let the fun continue.... Last edited on Nov 17th, 2006 04:36 pm by SaltyDog |
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Hairbrush Member
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I agree. I am not saying that the document shouldn't be hidden away somewhere. I just think that if DC wants to push his own agenda then he needs to look for a different media. Use the Concerned Citizens website or start his own blog. Shoot he is always welcomed to come here and post his thoughts and opinions. But I feel he violated a trust by posting that outdated document and in Bill's email to Dwayne that this could be one of several renditions. If we are at least going to keep track of Summerfield's history let's make sure we have the correct document. |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree, Salty. If Dwayne's capable of doin' this kind of thang without apparent remorse or even a rudementary understandin' of what his actual transgression was, then I have to wonder what other little behind the scenes mischief does he feel it's OK for him to do? To me, this is a severe breach of trust an' abuse o' power for an elected official. I hope the mayor an' the rest of the council condemn his actions in the harshest terms! Dwayne, do you really not understand how wrong it was for you to abuse the trust placed in you like this? Or do you know and just don't care? You need to apologize to the people of Summerfield for abusin' their trust an' wastin' our time! |
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Hairbrush Member
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I think it at the very least deserve a closed session so that can go over this bad behavior. I wonder if you can impeach a council member or least have them censored. |
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mstone Member
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I dunno... A closed session wouldn't allow the public to hear how the council responds to DC's behavior. Keep it open and public. Also, I think you're wanting to "censure" DC... then again... maybe censored is better. I didn't see anything on the other web site that D. Barnes had much to say at the last TC meeting. Omission or was she just that quiet? Hairbrush wrote: I think it at the very least deserve a closed session so that can go over this bad behavior. I wonder if you can impeach a council member or least have them censored. |
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Lacka Member
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mstone, D Barnes is just quiet sometimes, but you had better believe that you will hear her when she speaks. Gotta love her. I think there has just been too much to talk about on TOS (the other site) and some of the normal things have fallen thru the cracks. |
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Hairbrush Member
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You are right DC should have to explain to the public why he did what he did. That closed session comment was a slip of the keyboard. |
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FatPappy Member
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Unless it's a Texas Cage Match closed session...I might go for that. Hee hee! |
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Hairbrush Member
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Okay, so who knows how to get soda out of your key board. Thanks to FatPappy I just spit it all over it. |
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FatPappy Member
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Sorry, HB! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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To who ever asked. Dena was away at last Town Council meeting. Her plane was to arrive right at the time the meeting was to start and she did not make the meeting. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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La dee da... <Cracker, out for a stroll on the web, notices a lot of activity on the SFTC forum and stops in to check things out> Hey ya'll! What's going on today? Nothin' spectacular? Oh well, maybe next week..... <Cracker searches frantically for something worthwhile to post about. There's just gotta be something here somewhere....> Hey! maybe I can do something with this! Hairbrush wrote: Here is an email that was forwarded to me. Seems that DC was calling people out. Hairbrush, be sure to thank the person for sending that email to you and tell them to keep 'em coming! I'd hate to miss something this interesting..... Just one question... where'd he call them out to? Hairbrush wrote: You know, you guys really tickle my funny bone.... He has a funnybone? How sweet! Wonder where he keeps it? Hairbrush wrote: That document you're referring to over on the forum OK! Which one of you told him we were referring to a document over here on the forum? (or "BLOG" as BS would call it....... ) Pappy assured me that none of them read this forum! (wink wink) Hairbrush wrote: That 'unauthorized material' you all are having such a wonderful time shredding to pieces....... Ahhhhhh a fine example of how DC will take your words and twist them to suit his agenda. Luckily, anything written on THIS forum is there for anyone to read and they can decide for themselves if that's what was said. Hairbrush wrote: That document you're referring to...... is an authentic piece of Summerfield history. I have a few different renditions still on my computer. The attachment is typical
P.S. This email includes dozens of BCC recipients.
Grow up!!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Oh yea... welcome back Salty Dog! We miss you when you are away! |
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FatPappy Member
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Good one, Crackah! Yeah, welcome back, Salty! Ya'll be sure to add ol' Salty to the hundreds an' thousands o' BCC recipients when you send out emails. Thousands an' millions o' BCC recipients. Trillions an' googleplexes o' BCC recipients! Hee hee heeeee! Oh, that's good if I do say so myse'f. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Steve Adkins Member
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Hairbrush wrote: Shoot he is always welcomed to come here and post his thoughts and opinions. correct I have personally invited Dwayne to post here on multiple occasions, and he always declined. he didn't like the "hide behind anonymous name" thing. Interesting that Ray Riffe, Susan Bray, BJ Barnes & others didn't seem to have any problem with the anonymity, and all were treated courteously (except for one that got banned when he misbehaved). Dwayne would get the same benefit of the same rules if he were to join us. I am very happy that even though Dwayne declines to talk to his constituents on this forum, he thoroughly and conscienciously studies the comments posted in this forum. Tells me he is very interested in what folks have to say here. Thank You Dwayne, we're proud to have you as a regular lurker !! |
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PSCone Member
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Our family has a long proud tradition of service to this community. I would like to say it indeed saddens me to watch a few select individuals attempt to sabotage an entire community. Especially when those select individuals are able to manipulate their way to positions of influence. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Welcome PSCone. I think everybody on this forum agrees with you. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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PSCone wrote: Our family has a long proud tradition of service to this community. I would like to say it indeed saddens me to watch a few select individuals attempt to sabotage an entire community. Especially when those select individuals are able to manipulate their way to positions of influence. Welcome PSCone! Happy to have you join us!!!!! Rhetorical question: I'm wonderin' if you're one of the DOZENS of BCC recipients? (Don't answer that! Cruise through any old time! Invite your friends!!!! |
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SaltyDog Member
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Forum - a public meeting or assembly for open discussion Come on Dwayne jump in here with us. This is an arena of ideas so lets respectfully battle it out. If you care what we post on this forum (and it seems that you do) then get in the game, participate in the forum as yourself or as an alias but be an advocate for your positions and ideas. When you chose to run for council you became a public figure and as such you are open to scrutiny and criticism just like the council members that served before you and now serve with you. This forum is one avenue you have to communicate with your constituents. It seems that most of the posters here oppose many of your positions so go out and recruit some of your allies to join the forum and the discussions will not be so one-sided. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Amen Salty Dog, well said |
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PSCone Member
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Thank you so much DoggettJA and CrackerJax for your kind words and friendly welcome. I am encouraged to see the participation and concern for the community you have demonstrated over the years. Has anyone considered starting a PAC? This is an extremely helpful tool my family has used to ensure truth and justice prevail. It could be used to "set the record straight" about the lies and deceptions certain individuals have used to gain positions of power... just a thought... Last edited on Nov 18th, 2006 02:43 am by PSCone |
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EditorPS Administrator
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First, I'd like to emphasize that Dwayne Crawford and ALL the Concerned Citizens are invited to join this forum. Healthy and respectful debate are always welcome and difference of opinions can expand our thinking IF we're not threatened by those who don't see everything exactly as we do. I do have just one question, though. Who ARE the Concerned Citizens, other than Town Councilwoman Becky Strickland, Gail Dunham, Ginny Luckhardt (sp?), Robert and Alicia Flowers and Councilman Dwayne Crawford (but as of recently, he now claims he's no longer a Concerned Citizen, yet agrees with their no-tax position)? The Concerned Citizens say they are an organized group, as a group they have sent inflammatory and error-filled letters to my home, they are represented by a spokesperson, Gail Dunham, at town meetings, they have filed hundreds of Freedom of Information requests to the town council, and just today Councilman Crawford blind copied members of this group on an e-mail with regard to the "TO" list. Now, I could be forgetting something, but I just don't recall any members of the Concerned Citizens group, other than those mentioned above, coming forward and identifying themselves since this group's inception. Isn't that hypocritical? Mr. Crawford has obviously gone to great lengths to try to find out, and reveal the identities of people posting on this forum, and is making a BIG DEAL out of his sleuthing skills and revelations (which, by the way, are NOT all correct -- and I would testify to that fact in a court of law). Yet other than the steering committee members, none of the CC members he copied on his email today are known to us, nor have chosen to ever identify themselves. I don't get it -- why can they act out, disrupt town business, make false accusations against good people, and yet remain anonymous while people posting on this forum are criticized for not saying who they are? Dwayne, WHO ARE THE CONCERNED CITIZENS that you copied on your list today and why do you blind copy them versus reveal their names to everyone? I despise blind copying and I do not engage in it. It's no better than walking up to you and getting you to talk to me while I have a tape recorder in my pocket that I neglected to mention to you. When, where and how often do the Concerned Citizens meet? Is anyone allowed to attend these meetings, or only those who take a vow to secrecy and anonymity? Is the purpose to engage in productive dialogue for the betterment of the Town of Summerfield, and if so, can we come and engage in that dialogue so that we can share ideas, have healthy and productive debates, and strive to all move forward together? Last edited on Nov 18th, 2006 02:09 pm by EditorPS |
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Steve Adkins Member
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EditorPS wrote: Now, I could be forgetting something, but I just don't recall any of these dozens of people coming forward and identifying themselves since this group's inception. Isn't that hypocritical? Mr. Crawford has obviously gone to great lengths to try to find out, and reveal the identities of people posting on this forum, yet other than the steering committee members, none of the dozens of people he copied on his email today are known to us, nor have chosen to ever identify themselves. I don't get it -- why can they act out, disrupt town business, make false accusations against good people, and yet remain anonymous while people posting on this forum are criticized for not saying who they are? Sounds like a clear cut case of double standards. Hypocritical? - Yes........excellent description!!! Last edited on Nov 18th, 2006 10:54 am by Steve Adkins |
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FatPappy Member
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Come on, Dwayne! Jump on in here! Nuthin' to be skeered of. Might do us all some good. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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EditorPS wrote: I do have just one question, though. Who ARE the Concerned Citizens, other than Town Councilwoman Becky Strickland, Gail Dunham, Ginny Luckhardt (sp?), Robert and Alicia Flowers and Councilman Dwayne Crawford (but as of recently, he now claims he's no longer a Concerned Citizen, yet agrees with their no-tax position)? The Concerned Citizens say they are an organized group, as a group they have sent inflammatory and error-filled letters to my home, they are represented by a spokesperson, Gail Dunham, at town meetings, they have filed hundreds of Freedom of Information requests to the town council, and just today this group of alledgedly dozens was copied on Councilman Crawford's e-mail with regard to the "TO" list. I wanted to find out who makes the decision to send in one of those Freedom of Information requests. They clearly say on them that they are filed by Gail Dunham, representing the Concerned Citizens. Do they have a meeting and vote that it's time to send one in? Do they just talk by phone or email and get a concensus of the core members? Or does Ms. Dunham just take it upon herself? Of course, I couldn't get the answer. But Alicia Flowers publicly stated that the town has never received any requests for information from Robert. Yet if one is being sent by the Concerned Citizens, of which he is a core member, doesn't that imply that it was done with his or at least a majority of the group's approval? Sounds to me as if the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.... If I were considered a key member of a group, whether it be the Concerned Citizens or the Kiwanis or the PTA board, and one person was sending out information implying that it was being done for the entire group, I'd be furious. |
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SaltyDog Member
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In Dwayne's email he said "P.S. This email includes dozens of BCC recipients." Who cares who he sends it to? That statement has an immature "tattletale" quality to it. It's really hard to understand what motivates him other than an obsessive desire to know the identities of forum members. Signed. Unconcerned Citizen, Salty Dog Last edited on Nov 18th, 2006 02:14 pm by SaltyDog |
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Skiddles Member
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Good Morning All, Wow! I decided to jump in and say to DC and to all of the Concerned Citizens; I'm here to discuss issues too... fairly and equally. It took a bit of catching up, but I believe I'm UP TO SPEED now! Presently my concerns with all of the website shenanigans are there are no checks and balances in place yet; the town can not have this happen again. Mr. Crawford has proven to me that he can not be trusted now to do the website update. This is a shame because he seems to be very knowledgeable with computers and could do a wonderful job for the town, but he has stepped over the line by creating a “new” item on the web-site housing a not so “authentic” document, (Mr. Peterson wrote: “I have a few different renditions still on my computer.”) My understanding is DC’s task was to update the current website’s information… not to add or create whatever “he” might think should be on the site. I am all for preserving as many REAL historical documents about our town as possible and I’m sure everyone on the council would agree, this is why we have a historical committee, but you can not just place a document on the web and say it should be considered an archival piece. Maybe a “mailed” flyer that was sent out to the community in 1996 would be the piece DC is looking for. However, this piece should be cared for and preserved at Town Hall along with all of the other Summerfield historical pieces. And… If Mr. Peterson is forwarding Mr. Crawford information that is a value “historically” to our town, shouldn’t he be giving it to someone at Town Hall? Well maybe we’ll see some of these documents in Mr. Peterson’s book one day. I just hope all renditions are included and identified properly. |
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EditorPS Administrator
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I stand corrected, and appreciate that being pointed out, Salty. Dwayne Crawford did not specifically say that he was blind copying dozens of Concerned Citizens, only that he was blind copying dozens of ???. My bad for assuming, though I believe if he were copying town council members and others who are not afraid to be known, he would not have felt the need to blind copy them. With that said, I have edited my earlier post and apologize to any Concerned Citizens who were missed on the blind copy e-mail. |
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FatPappy Member
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S. Smith wrote:If I were considered a key member of a group, whether it be the Concerned Citizens or the Kiwanis or the PTA board, and one person was sending out information implying that it was being done for the entire group, I'd be furious. I'd a least be concerned. These are all interestin' questions that I'm curious to find out the answers to an' I'm glad y'all brought 'em up. Besides who's zoomin' who, I'm concerned (no pun intended there) with the truth or accuracy of what whoever is saying. Ms Dunham, fer example, gets up there at the podium just about every month an' rattles off how the mayor is personally responsible fer ever'thang from the heartbreak o' psoriasis to the Lindburg kidnappin'. Sometimes I have no clue what she's talkin' about, but it gener'ly sounds bad. Yet we never, or rarely ever, hear any official response to her claims. I wish there was some way fer the council to publicly address her concerns an' put us out of her misery. She makes some pretty serious charges sometimes that I'm sure leave some lesser-informed people wonderin'. They could prob'ly just sit down an' make a one-time list of answers an' post it on the wall. Since most of her charges seem to be the same each time it might be good fer a year or two. |
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EditorPS Administrator
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Pappy, I agreed wholeheartedly and think that it's time those of us who are concerned about the allegations of the Concerned Citizens send a formal request to the council that the allegations of the CCs be publicly addressed. There is no doubt that the people who do not watch the affairs of the town closely could be persuaded to believe that we are being governed by a majority representation of tax-spending, unethical, careless, unresponsive and incompetent group of individuals who are compelled to serve our town purely to meet their own personal and selfish interests. And furthermore, they could be persuaded, and based on the last election were persuaded to believe that the only hope we have of salvation is the two newest council members who are driven to serve so that they can represent the whole of the town's constituents and save us from demise. The Concerned Citizens speak loudly, if not accurately, and those who only tune in occasionally will hear their voices far above the quiet, and often silent majority. Last edited on Nov 18th, 2006 02:49 pm by EditorPS |
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FatPappy Member
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Skiddles wrote:
Howdy, Skiddles. Pappy strongly agrees! Crawford's actions have shown that he is perfectly comfortable with pushin' our trust under the bus if it gets in his way. The town website is there for all the people an' the authenticity an' accuracy of the information on it MUST be beyond question, with allowances fer the occassional typo an' such. An' furthermore, Monsewer Crawford lists Peterson as the source of much of his "inside" information and the interpretation of its significance. If that's true, then I think he needs to branch out a little an' maybe, you know, talk to another person now an' then. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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FatPappy wrote: Ms Dunham, fer example, gets up there at the podium just about every month an' rattles off how the mayor is personally responsible fer ever'thang from the heartbreak o' psoriasis to the Lindburg kidnappin'. Sometimes I have no clue what she's talkin' about, but it gener'ly sounds bad. Yet we never, or rarely ever, hear any official response to her claims. I wish there was some way fer the council to publicly address her concerns an' put us out of her misery. The town attorney has given his opinion of Ms. Strickland's abuse of power against the mayor at two meetings now. According to attorney Bill Hill, Mark Brown did not abuse his office by asking staff to look into a Planned Unit Development (PUD) ordinance. Why the town would spend money at something like $125 an hour to have Mr. Hill put that in writing to satisfy Ms. Dunham is beyond me. She can listen to the tape of the meeting -- which could easily be supplied by Mr. Crawford and not even bother town staff. I am not aware of Mark Brown making any "multi-million dollar decisions" on behalf of the town regarding an amphitheater -- which is one of Ms. Dunham's most recent allegations. If I learn of anything such as this, I will report on it immediately. I can say, however, that I was at a public meeting (the park meeting on Nov. 4) in which an overwhelming amount of the people there voted in favor of some kind of outdoor meeting area, amphitheater, etc. Everyone who attended that meeting received the results of it via e-mail from the PTCOG, and I can produce it if anyone is interested in seeing it. Ms. Dunham also charged council members with having an illegal meeting because 4 of them were at that park meeting and it was not advertised as a public meeting. However, I did not witness Mark Brown, Bob Williams, Becky Strickland or Dwayne Crawford conducting any town business at that meeting -- in fact, I didn't even see them or even the 3 of them that can vote together talking at any point (although I admit it could have happened since I wasn't with them at all times). If Ms. Dunham or any of the Concerned Citizens were so concerned about that, it seems that Strickland and/or Crawford could have left at any time. Regarding abuse of power, I'm wondering if Crawford should be accused of that very thing by posting the historical document on the town Web site. This is merely a question, because I didn't see it and understand it has now been removed. If it was in a place where it clearly says it was a historical document, and if in fact it was the version that was mailed out to citizens, I have no issue. But if it was posted on the front page of the town's Web site, what was the purpose in that? Since it touts the "no services, no taxes" mantra that has been embraced by the Concerned Citizens, it seems to me as if it were done for nothing other than purely political purposes -- and has no business being posted there in that manner. If I were a citizen of Summerfield (which I admit I'm not, although it is my "adopted" town since I regularly report on it), I'd be demanding some answers at a public meeting on this one. I'd also likely demand that one council member not be allowed to decide what goes on the Web site -- that should either go before the council (typically a waste of their time, but something that may have to be done now) or it should be done by town staff, who can at least monitor items and have the discretion of asking for a concensus from the council before allowing something to be posted that might be controversial. I believe someone mentioned the League of Municipalities do this, but I don't think it should be left up to someone who is not familiar with the goings-on in the town. Sorry for the length of this post -- I got wound up! |
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FatPappy Member
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EditorPS wrote:Pappy, You're right. It's time. Mebbe we should start with a list of what their allegations actually are an' then present that to the council at the next meetin'. Or is there a better way to go about it? |
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Skiddles Member
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FatPappy wrote: An' furthermore, Monsewer Crawford lists Peterson as the source of much of his "inside" information and the interpretation of its significance. If that's true, then I think he needs to branch out a little an' maybe, you know, talk to another person now an' then. I know I get a bit claustrophobic standing in a box for a long time, looking at the same side of things... all of the time. Dwayne may need to step out of his box, fur' sure Pappy, and look at the box from the outside in..... It works for me. |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged fer puttin' it in perspective, Sandra. The forum's great, but we need to go beyond it sometimes. We'll work on it. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: Ms. Dunham also charged council members with having an illegal meeting because 4 of them were at that park meeting and it was not advertised as a public meeting. However, I did not witness Mark Brown, Bob Williams, Becky Strickland or Dwayne Crawford conducting any town business at that meeting -- in fact, I didn't even see them or even the 3 of them that can vote together talking at any point (although I admit it could have happened since I wasn't with them at all times). If Ms. Dunham or any of the Concerned Citizens were so concerned about that, it seems that Strickland and/or Crawford could have left at any time. Oh this is a dandy. So by being present at a meeting where they can interface with their constituents (like elected officials are supposed to do), they are doing something illegal? By listening to what is said in the community by the people they represent, they're doing something illegal? By all shopping at food lion at the same time by mistake, they are doing something illegal? By driving thru the McDonalds drive thru at the same time, so they're all on McDonalds property at the same time, they're doing something illegal? How ridiculous an argument can someone dream up????? I'm with Patti - CONCERNED CITIZENS (who the heck ever you are in the BCC world), COME OUT OF THE CLOSET. Last edited on Nov 18th, 2006 04:12 pm by Steve Adkins |
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FatPappy Member
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Which is the greater sin? Concealin' one's identity, but bein' honest with one's opinions... OR Bein' open about one's identity, but bein' dishonest about what one says? I vote for the latter. (Bein' as how I got a quorum o' Pappies with me, I'll call it a unanomous vote at a legal meetin' o' the minds.) |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy risked a brown recluse spidey bite in order to dig out my copy o' that infamous town incorporation memo from 1996. I ain't sure what version it is, but the first "fact" you come to under the heading FACTS TO CONSIDER says: • The town of Summerfield will levy NO TAXES. In fact, the town charter requires a public vote for taxes above twenty cents. The town will receive enough income that taxes will not be required. Well, now. We talked about this earlier, but I can't get over it. This is what Crawford sold his public trust for so he could post it on the town website? This?! Why do you think this is so incriminating? Dang, Crawford, have you read this? Look what it says. The town will levy no taxes, yes, but right there in the very next sentence it says BUT we can levy up to 20 cents witout a vote! So we can levy taxes if the situation calls for it! It also says in the next sentence that taxes won't be necessary because the town will receive enough income! It's right there in the document you "revealed"! Why do you think this is so damaging? Those sentences are under the FACTS TO CONSIDER heading. Are they in fact facts? Let's look this calf over... The first sentence is not really a fact but a PREDICTION based on the suppositions and circumstances of the time. That sentence does not appear in the town charter, by the way. The second is a fact; it does appear in the town charter. The last sentence--not a fact, again it's a prediction based on supposition and circumstances. Also not in the town charter. Why did you think "revealing" this would devastate us? Your thinking doesn't make sense! You did serious damage to your credibility for NOTHING! |
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Waytago Member
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FatPappy wrote: Why did you think "revealing" this would devastate us? Your thinking doesn't make sense! You did serious damage to your credibility for NOTHING! A person has to HAVE some credibility in order to damage it. |
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SaltyDog Member
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Hmmmm....That Dwayne sure has snookered us here on the forum He thinks we want to pay taxes - Wrong - We just think there are some services that our town should provide and we are willing to pay for them. He thinks we want to suppress a historical town document - Wrong - We question his personal authority to post documents on the Town's website. He thinks we are shocked to see the 'No Tax' clause in the 1996 Flyer - Wrong - The 'No Tax' pledge was based on conditions that existed in 1996 when it was the policy of county commissioners to distribute sales tax revenues to municipalities. We all know that during the economic slump of 2001-2003 the State Government could not balance their budget so they kept more of the county's sales tax money in Raleigh - this in turn caused the county commissioners to change their policy about distribution to municipalities. With that change in the revenue stream the Town of Summerfield had to rethink its tax policy. Dwayne seems to have a problem understanding this. He thinks that skulking around trying to identify anonymous members of this forum will shut us up - Wrong - We're still posting. He thinks we can't see the hypocracy of him sending an email calling out forum members who are ananymous and yet sending that same email to "dozens" on a BCC list - Wrong - That one's obvious. Let's recap - Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. At least he's consistent - Right? Signed, Unconcerned Citizen, Salty Dog Last edited on Nov 19th, 2006 12:30 am by SaltyDog |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Poor Dwayne.............he just can't get it right, the poor dear must be terribly frustrated.........yeah, right. However Mr or Ms Dawg, whatever you are, one thing I must disagree on. Hmmmm....That Dwayne sure has snookered us here on the forum Summerfield is full of very intelligent people, this forum is full of the same intelligent people. No question they can see thru Dwayne (non CC) and all other CC manipulations and distortions. I have not lived here since 1996, but there's a whole slew of people that have. The true story is readily available.....and these proud Summerfield folks aren't willing to keep quiet any longer. It's show time.................... Last edited on Nov 19th, 2006 01:11 am by Steve Adkins |
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Starcatchr Member
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Thank you Pappy and Salty for pointing out the details of the 1996 inc. memo, 'cause some of us might have read just a smattering of it and might have thought in meant no taxes from here to eternity. |
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Waytago Member
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SaltyDog wrote: He thinks that skulking around trying to identify anonymous members of this forum will shut us up - Wrong - We're still posting. And we're not going to slow down. It's not nearly as hard to post the truth, as it is to twist the truth. Dwayne, ole' buddy, you just don't know what your missin' not talking to us. |
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FatPappy Member
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Waytago wrote:A person has to HAVE some credibility in order to damage it. Good point, WTG. Pappy got distracted an' was accidentally bein' nice. Sorry, Dwayne, I didn't mean to call you credible. |
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FatPappy Member
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Starcatchr wrote:Thank you Pappy and Salty for pointing out the details of the 1996 inc. memo, 'cause some of us might have read just a smattering of it and might have thought in meant no taxes from here to eternity. Starcatchr, I just think it's a shame one of our duly elected officials has so little respect for himself an' the people he works for that he would stoop to such childish behavior. Is he dumb enough to think we're that dumb? Mebbe with nobody left to deceive he deceived himself. |
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FatPappy Member
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SaltyDog wrote:Let's recap - Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. At least he's consistent - Right? Let me see if I understand you, Salty. Dwayne is Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong and Wrong? Did I get that right? Hee hee! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: SaltyDog wrote: Actually Pappy, if you learned how to do genealogical research you would find that one of Dwayne's ancestors was a fairly well known man from China who was always lost and going in the wrong direction. Never stopping to ask directions or checking his road map. His name was D. Wong Whey, a man known to Confucius, who quite appropriately said about him, that bad apples don't fall far from the tree. Last edited on Nov 19th, 2006 02:10 am by Jim Flynt |
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Skiddles Member
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Yep, you got it right Pappy! |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:His name was D. Wong Whey, a man known to Confucius, who quite appropriately said about him, that bad apples don't fall far from the tree. Hee hee! Them bad apples just don't fall far enough from the tree. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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FatPappy wrote: SaltyDog wrote: Your RIGHT Pappy !!! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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FatPappy wrote: Mebbe with nobody left to deceive he deceived himself. Good Point Pappy When nobody else believes a persons deceptions, they can only deceive themselves........and then they start believing their own deceptions, and make more deceptions. I am not comfortable having someone with these traits representing the wonderful town of Summerfield on the Town Council. Last edited on Nov 19th, 2006 02:21 pm by Steve Adkins |
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Waytago Member
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Remember that movie with Jim Carey.........Liar Liar, where his kid confused the word "Lawyer" with "Liar" in the classroom. Seems like we have the same confusion with one member of our TC who thinks sitting behind a desk answering the phones for a few years in a Liar's, I mean Lawyers office gives her an implied license to practice law for the Town. I prefer to have someone like Attorney Hill, with a sheepskin, to practice the law. The little comments like "I don't know if it's legal for us to talk about this".........translated "I want to stall this subject, so I'll inject some confusion on something I don't have a clue what I'm talking about"............can easily be answered by asking the licensed experienced attorney at the end of the table, that our tax dollars are paying to render those opinions. |
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FatPappy Member
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Steve Adkins wrote:When nobody else believes a persons lies, they can only lie to themselves........and then they start believing their own lies, and make more lies. Well put, Steve. Except I don't think we have anybody like that representin' the TOWN. There's somebody like that on the council fer sure, but I have no idee who he represents. It sure ain't the town. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Okay, I'm going to try to back up here. I'll admit I've had some problems with some of the things said and done by certain council members, and I've pointed them out here and in articles or editorials. Patti and Steve are both citizens and taxpayers of Summerfield, and therefore have a vested interest in this whole scenario so they can say whatever they want -- I don't (other than I feel like it is my job to call things as I see them, even though I know there are some who disagree with my judgment). All that being said, I'm going to step back here, and as a Moderator, try to moderate. Everything that's been said here begs the question, which Patti and others have already brought out: If these council members don't represent a majority of citizens, who do they represent? And if their tactics aren't acceptable, will a large group of citizens and other council members be willing to stand up in some manner and say so? On the other side of the coin, if they do represent a majority of taxpayers and citizens of Summerfield, will those people be willing to say so? Granted, such an action on either group's part likely won't silence anyone or stop their tactics if, in fact, they don't want to listen. But at least it will go on record what their constituents think and say. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Sandra I agree. I for one am ready to join a group to stand up and say we want parks and trails, open space, maybe even PUDS. Don't know enough about them but they certainly sound like something Summerfield could use and are being touted as helping limit sprawl, air polution. I want us to be proactive. I want to stop fighting over 10 year old flyers and start looking forward to impacting positively the lives of people in Summerfield. Does anybody know of a place we could hold an organizational meeting? Actually the community building is pretty cheap to rent if it comes to that. I absolutely believe in the right of free speech and in anybodies right to dissent, after all I grew up in the 60's but I am tired of the bulleying and lies being spread as the truth. They are being reported in the newspaper and spread through the community and they do not reflect the true nature of Summerfield. Are there any business owners out there who would like to join. I think Greensboro's City beautiful is sponsored by business owners and their goal it to present Greensboro in a good light. Summerfield needs something like that. We need to absolutely stand up enmass and say we want to finish our park. The majority of the people who have answered the surveys have said over and over "we want a place to gather as a community in the park." Don't let Mom stand up there month after month and lie about the ampitheater costing millions. The PartF grant was $500,000 and the matching fund from the Town was the same for phase 1. The Town is now working on the same match for phase 2 which will finish the park. You do the math and if you come up with millions for the ampitheater please let me know how? We need and want ballfields for our kids to play in. How sad in this wonderful community we have to ration playing time and don't have any soccer fields for our kids. Now to the all the requests under the Freedom of information act, what has been done with the thousands of pages? Where is all the dishonesty and dirty dealing that the CC's have been screaming about? Where is the corruption that they keep screaming is rampant in this Town. Show me one person who has made millions of dollars or actually any dollars off of a vote they were involved in!!! In my humble opinion until last November which we can now refer to as "Black Tuesday" this town was run by people whose only interest was in protecting the citizens as well as they could under the law, plan for the future and enhancing our community. Boy what a difference a day makes. So are there folks out there with better organizational skills who have an idea about how to stop the negatively and get this Town back on track. Lets see if we can do something because as a group we can accomplish more. Boy Sandra you got me rilled up this morning. Keep up the good work!!! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: will a large group of citizens and other council members be willing to stand up in some manner and say so?Yes, I'll be glad to......I am a taxpayer in Summerfield, and ready to let some people know I don't like their tactics. |
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EditorPS Administrator
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Thanks, Sandra, for trying to get us back on track. Those of us who are moderators do have an obligation to be objective, and that's so much more difficult when you have a vested interest in what you're doing. With that said, I've tried in the past and I'll keep trying. Never have we been more challenged at the Northwest Observer than we have been by the creation of the Concerned Citizens group. In light of all that has transpired over the last year and a half, there are many times when we have reminded ourselves that our job is to report and not instigate. We have over and over again committed to being professional and fair, even when it has been very, very difficult. If we've failed as a newspaper and I've failed as a citizen of Summerfield, it honestly isn't because I haven't tried and tried hard. In the early days of the CCs, we, just like the town, got bombarded with phone calls and requests for information from Gail Dunham. Initially, we tried to comply with those requests and to talk with her on the phone when she called, as much as possible (meaning we couldn't stop and take every call every day); however, over time we began to realize that she seemed to enjoy being angry, and being at battle more than she seemed to want to take the town in a positive direction. Just as the town is constantly being distracted by her endless questions and her inability to be satisfied when she does get answers because they're not the answers she wants, we simply could not keep up with her constant barrages of documentation and questions, at least not if we were going to produce a newspaper every week that included information about all three northwest Guilford County towns in our coverage area. With that said, we made a decision to put a limit on how much time we could communicate with her. The problem I continue to wrestle with is, I feel that the CCs want to fight a battle a lot more than they want to work as a team for the betterment of the town. If I'm wrong, why don't we see them as volunteers on our committees, and why do they use tactics like sending out letters at the 11th hour before elections that bash our elected officials? Why is is that in 10 years of publishing this newspaper they're the only ones who have ever felt we were worthless as a newspaper when every time, and I mean EVERY time I'm in a group, people come up and thank me for what we do for the community? Why is is that everyone outside of their group is treated as less intelligent, and sometimes downright stupid for not thinking like they do? If they want me to listen to them, they will HAVE to change their approach. Even people who did listen to them in the beginning have been totally turned off and tuned out. I think I understand the principles on which the CCs were founded and I even agree with some of them wholeheartedly, i.e. responsible and accountable government. What I am opposed to is the group's single-mindedness and their adherence to "No Tax, No Services, No Way, No Day." But I could disagree and still have respect for the CCs if it were not for the way in which their views have been presented. I also disagree with their choice of spokesperson, Gail Dunham. Whether they like it or not, if they are a member of the CC and she is the most visible and vocal person who is constantly acting and speaking on their behalf, and using their name as a group when she does so, she represents them and their approval is assumed by association. If that doesn't seem like an objective assessment, I apologize. That's just simply as objective as I can be after over a year and a half of watching, listening, being the recipient of their letters at my home and coming under attack as a newspaper and a citizen who degrees with their ideologies. With all of that said, here comes the hard part. I think it's time that we see if we can find any common ground. As I've stated before, if their goal is pure and they truly want what's best for Summerfield and our goal is pure and we truly want what's best for Summerfield, it is vital that we find some common ground. And even though I, for one, have as hard a time seeing the world from their angle as they have seeing it from mine, I would welcome them on this forum and would welcome an opportunity to come together as groups of individuals who want to stop the battle and look for ways we can take their passion and ours and put it to good use. Should any of the CCs take me up on the offer to come together here, or in person, please welcome them and treat them respectfully. Let's don't get caught up in the battle so much that we forget what our goal is -- as for me, I want to see Summerfield evolve further as a town where we have relative harmony, we are an example for other small communities of how people can disagree yet come together for the good of the whole, and we have a clear vision for the future so that when we're no longer here we have left our space a better place for those that come behind us. Long posting -- now you can see why I don't do this more often, can't you? Last edited on Nov 19th, 2006 03:15 pm by EditorPS |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy's too busy to post right now, but count me in! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Patti & Sandra Thanks for being the voice of reason in an emotionally charged subject. The tactic of finding common ground is the right one, even if circumstances make it impossible. I think I can safety say, the CC's are not going to join us on this forum. I'd also welcome any of them, and guarantee them the same level of rigorous moderating as the candidates forum. Why not extend an invitation to the CC's to meet those on the forum who wish to participante in a face to face meeting? Meet in a neutral location, bring in an outside moderator, establish the code of conduct in advance, establish the questions in advance......you get the idea. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Patti & Sandra One of the finest resources in the world for just exactly what you seem to be describing is located right smack dab right next to Summerfield: the Center for Creative Leadership over off Highway 220 at Laurinda Drive. They have the resources, talent, skill and experience with just this very type of situation and it is worth consideration. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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The Town council tried to set up the same sort of meeting with the help of PCOG as moderators and were coldly told no. Becky advised the cc's would not considerit. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Good idea on the common ground thing Patti, however, I agree with SMS that none of them will ever come to the forum to discuss rationally what they want to see for our future for the following reasons: Because I don't believe any of them have any vision or idea of what they'd like to see happen in Summerfield.... for them, there is no future, only the past. I don't believe there are enough of them to balance out the numbers they'd be up against on the forum.... even if we do promise to be NICE. The only thing they have to say is that they don't want a tax and the current council is dishonest and once that's said, they really have no other points to make. Because none of them read the forum and won't even know that they are invited (wink wink). I really don't think I'd have any interest in READING their opinions anyway, because they are usually rambling, accusatory and covered up in statutes and legalities that are frankly, just boring. Jim's suggestion is excellent, but I think Jane is correct. They have stated that they aren't interested in compromising and if one or two of them did show up, I would fear that anything that any of us said to them would be twisted, mangled and misconstrued so badly in their next mailing or laying on the table at the next council meeting with a big ol' red "F-" scrawled across the top. I think you summed it up best when you wrote the comment below, Patti. EditorPS wrote: The problem I continue to wrestle with is, I feel that the CCs want to fight a battle a lot more than they want to work as a team for the betterment of the town. I really have tried to see their points and the few good ones that I've run across are quickly forgotten or buried in their disparaging rhetoric. |
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Skiddles Member
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Becky slamming the door shut to a moderated meeting of the minds is very unfortunate for all. I would like to think that talking your differences out at a round table gathering would bring some understanding to both sides... well, at least this is suppose to be what should come out of this kind of experience. Maybe, now that time has passed Becky & the CCs will reconsider. I hope so. |
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Skiddles Member
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... but, you are probably right CJ, it won't happen Last edited on Nov 19th, 2006 11:56 pm by Skiddles |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I didn't mean to be such a negative nabob, they just bring that out in me..... If it did happen, I'd do my best to be there. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Not a nattering nabob of negativity I hope!! |
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Starcatchr Member
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My white flag was halfway up after reading Patti's post. Then I remembered being told that we wouldn't (couldn't?) understand their views. The air of superiority that surrounds some of the CCs rankles most people. It willnot be easy to forget the lies and half-truths; the attempt to tarnish reputations; and the lack of respect for volunteers, fellow council members, and anyone else who doesn't bow to their demands. BUT...perhaps a cautious truce via the forum could be a small step toward understanding on both sides. After a time we might even find a common ground, however shaky, to build trust and a respect for differing opinions. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: The Town council tried to set up the same sort of meeting with the help of PCOG as moderators and were coldly told no. Becky advised the cc's would not considerit. Well..........my thoughts would be, put the opportunity out there, set the date & time. We cannot remain ham strung because a very few individuals won't cooperate. Let's show up. If the CC's show, fine. If they no-show, then their stance is known (and probably their numbers), and the meeting changes to the organization of a Pro-Summerfield effort, as suggested by Sandra & Jane earlier. We've got to get our town back on track, get over the ugliness of the past, and think forward. Vision ==> Future. Were it not for the CC's, we'd probably have a large park, a new town hall, a defined Town Core Concept, a plan for affordable housing in Summerfield. We're losing opportunities. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Steve's makin' sense. You gonna moderate this meetin' too Steve-O? |
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Skiddles Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Let's show up. If the CC's show, fine. If they no-show, then their stance is known (and probably their numbers), and the meeting changes to the organization of a Pro-Summerfield effort, as suggested by Sandra & Jane earlier. Vision ==> Future If they show, GREAT! If not...Their actions will speak loud and clear. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
If the CC's show, then no, we should have a neutral moderator who doesn't know this forum exists, or anything written in it. If they no show, it would be an honor to moderate or facilitate the Organization meeting. Last edited on Nov 20th, 2006 12:24 pm by Steve Adkins |
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FatPappy Member
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A summit meetin' makes sense to me, Steve. I'll see if I can get a quorum o' Pappies so it won't be a illegal meetin'. (I'm tryin' to get all the jabs out o' my system before we meet. I've figgered out that hair on top o' my haid might really be a fuse...) Should we have some ground rules before we meet? Such as, no name callin', no accusations without facts to back it up. No water boarding. Tapin' the meetin' will be OK. It's up to whoever to make sure you have a means to tape if they want. Will Steve moderate or participate? Who will moderate otherwise? Are there any volunteer groups that might be available to moderate? Should each side submit written questions beforehand? (...before hand-to-hand combat ensues...Pappy!) Aww. Well, how about who will keep minutes? |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Everyone knows where I stand!! Where has the love gone? I for one love this town. Summerfield, a place where people can leave their doors unlocked. Summerfield, a place people say "How ya' doooen" and mean it. Summerfield, a place people ask " Hows ya' mama and them" and wait for a reply. This will all disappear if the lies and half truths don't stop. These are the things that divide a town. This will turn friends into enemy's. My wife's family on both side can count back 8 and 9 generations in Summerfield. We love it here. I will bet that the CC's cannot say the same. But, there are some good Summerfield citizens that can. Growth in a town is best from within. This make a town a tight family. The future growth depends on our children. Having organized activities for children and children knowing they can have the same for their own children is what keeps them in Summerfield. Now that I am up on my soap box. Summerfield needs affordable housing. $300K is not affordable housing. I am just like the rest in not wanting my property value to drop but, I did not build my house to sell and make a profit. I AM HERE TO STAY!! Where are our children going to live in Summerfield (when the time comes) that the houses are of affordable price or rent? When they come out of college there is no way they will be able to purchase a home here unless they hit the lottery or inherit from a rich Uncle. I want to see my Grandchildren grow up and live in Summerfield and add 2 to 3 more generations to the list. |
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FatPappy Member
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Hey, BB, what do you think o' the meetin' idee Steve brought up? |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Common ground meeting is the best idea. A little Q and A would be for the best on both sides. There are alot of unanswered questions for the CC's to let us in on. I'll be there on my best behavior. I'll try not to let the big green guy bust out. Let the games begin!! |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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A meeting here on the forum would also be better so we could ask Ms. Dunham questions without her talking over top of us. I had a one sided conversation with her once and could not get a word in. When I tried to speak she talked over me and her words were without point or reason, rambling from one thing to another. Then I started poking fun at her ( by acting as if I agreed totally) and this added fuel to the fire. Talk about eccentric. Debbie Hoffman saw this and thought I had lost my mind. Had to explain myself on that one. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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My question (as an outside observer) is, what is or what would be the objective of a meeting as you're proposing? What does your side hope to accomplish? What would the other side hope to accomplish? What's in it (from a political or power standpoint) for either side to even agree to sit down for a discussion face to face? It also seems to me that an outside trained facilitator neutral to all parties is and would be your and their only hope in trying to have each side honestly listen to the positions of the other side. Without neutrality and a guided discussion by a facilitator to seek out and find common ground, the chances for mutually beneficial success lie somewhere between slim and none. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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At the core of what I am suggesting is that any meeting needs to be based on an understanding and consideration for the concept of realpolitik. I am enclosing two definitions to help in understanding this concept: (1) Politics based on practical objectives rather than on ideals. The word does not mean “real” in the English sense but rather connotes “things”-hence a politics of adaptation to things as they are. Realpolitik thus suggests a pragmatic, no-nonsense view and a disregard for ethical considerations. In diplomacy it is often associated with relentless, though realistic, pursuit of the national interest. (2) Governmental policies based on hard, practical considerations rather than on moral or idealistic concerns. Realpolitik is German for “the politics of reality” and is often applied to the policies of nations that consider only their own interests in dealing with other countries. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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So basically realpolitik is "my" agenda at any cost? I think I understand where you are going with this. We being those posting on the forum seem to be the more idealist "dreamers" while the others are the realpolitiks, which are two very diverse ways of viewing things and would probably make any meeting fairly futile? Is this where you are going? I promised my husband dinner tonight and since it is 8:30 I need to go for a bit but Jim expand on your thoughts. |
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Skiddles Member
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Frankly this meeting with a non-biased mediator would be a wonderful way to get to a common ground. Realistically you are probably correct Jane in saying, any meeting would be fairly futile, because I don’t think that all parties will go into it with an honest conviction. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Jane before we go jumping the gun on my comments about realpolitik, I would ask that you address my earlier questions so you can share an outline of what you would seek to accomplish. Here are those questions: What is or what would be the objective of a meeting as you're proposing? What does your side hope/seek to accomplish? What would the other side hope/seek to accomplish? What's in it ("gain") (from a political or power standpoint) for either side to even agree to sit down for a discussion face to face? (As a footnote: By injecting realpolitik into this discussion, I did not intend to "label" the "values" or ideologies of either side, but merely to suggest that objectives of the two parties might be somewhat different in purpose. Events and actions are generally neutral until one ascribes a 'value' to that event or act which labels it as good or bad or positive or negative. We all ascribe values to events and actions based on our own built in biases and belief systems. That leads to dissonance in our communications with our adversaries and generally results in communal name calling and finger pointing wherein we label our opponents actions or beliefs as wrong rather than simply different from our own.) Last edited on Nov 21st, 2006 01:38 am by Jim Flynt |
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Skiddles Member
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Sound advice, Jim |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Well we have two meetings being proposed I think. One meeting which I am in favor of is a meeting that sits down and says we live in Sumerfield because...... and we would like to see the Town accomplish...... Affordable house ordinanace, address urban sprawl, more parks, cleaner air etc and lobby towards our goals. Remind people why they live here and the advantages. Promote the positiveness. The other meeting being proposed, I think, is a meeting between the two groups with a mediator. I am very pragmatic, feel every one has a right to his or her beliefs, and I would like to think that both groups have the good of Summerfield and our future as objectives but I do not truly believe that. Therefore I am very pessimistic that any good could come out of such a meeting. i would attend and I would try to keep an open mind because I have seen good facilitators do wonderful things. How about the rest of you out there what do you think? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Well we have two meetings being proposed I think. One meeting which I am in favor of is a meeting that sits down and says we live in Sumerfield because...... and we would like to see the Town accomplish...... Affordable house ordinanace, address urban sprawl, more parks, cleaner air etc and lobby towards our goals. Remind people why they live here and the advantages. Promote the positiveness. Jane, I am going to break down my response to your post in two or three separate responses. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have after my having done that. I concur with your meeting as described above as your objective seems clear and the participation of those with differing views or agendas is not necessary for the accomplishment of your objectives. Therefore I would second the motion to move forward with all due speed with this proposed meeting as you have outlined. I am certainly not smarter nor as smart as many if not most of you, only perhaps I am a little more emotionally detached in my perspective and assessment. Last edited on Nov 21st, 2006 02:26 am by Jim Flynt |
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Skiddles Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: I am certainly not smarter nor as smart as many if not most of you, only perhaps I am a little more emotionally detached in my perspective and assessment.This is a good thing. Sometimes when you are too close and passionate about an issue you can miss the elephant in the room. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:
(2) I am very pragmatic, feel every one has a right to his or her beliefs, and I would like to think that both groups have the good of Summerfield and our future as objectives but I do not truly believe that. (3) Therefore I am very pessimistic that any good could come out of such a meeting. I have taken the liberty of breaking down your comments from your earlier post into 3 main themes as numbered above. With regard to your Point (1), it would seem to me that the meeting being proposed is being proposed by only one side. Therefore it would be inherent that the group proposing such a meeting would only make such proposal with some objective in mind, such further being to seek to gain something of value from such a meeting. I am not at all sure of the intent of what the anticipated gain is at this point. Is your purpose to listen to the other side and their viewpoint? Can you listen while showing respect for a purpose or viewpoint which is not right or wrong, but simply different from your own? Your Point (2) is troublesome to me, as it starts find differences rather than commonalities and to attach values to different points of view. When we start to say that we don't truly believe that the other side shares our objective we immediately create obstacles to communication and respectful dialogue which takes us back to where we are now. Isn't it possible that both sides might share the same general objective that you annuciate, while differing on more specific objectives and the means and ends of obtaining them? Your Point (3) obviously is one which is shared by many in the groups on both sides of which, I would agree, would not bode well for any success. Until both sides can see some benefit(s) accruing from such a meeting toward the attainment of their organizational goals, then no meaningful dialogue is likely nor any purpose served in conducting such a meeting. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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If I ever need a speech writer I want you. So far, for me, you have absolutely taken my illogical thoughts, put them in order and expressed them so I understand myself. Us left handed people are creative, touchy, feely so I have been told but not necesarily logical. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:
Jane, on this point we can agree. Like you, I have seen some very difficult and challenging political situations completely disarmed and some wonderful unions created from quite fractious parties of greatly different interests by way of the talents of some highly skilled facilitators. Their skills were almost magical to watch and unless one has been exposed to a facilitated meeting, there is no way to adequately describe the experience and process in words. The key was good facilitators as you mentioned. Trained for that purpose with the skills, demeanor and experience to engender trust from both sides, respect for the differences within the groups, and the focus to lead vastly differing groups to a recognition of their common interests within a framework and process which enhances rather than impedes communication of differing ideas, perspectives and experiences. I have last night and again today, shared some suggestions to both Steve Atkins and Patti Stokes, in hopefully helping to find the best facilitator possible to assist in a proposed meeting with the other side, should they be willing to sit down and communicate. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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All we can do is try I suppose. Thanks for the discussion tonight. Your prespective is appreciated. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Jane, please don't take my comments as negative or see them as poo pooing your ideas or throwing cold water on either of the two meetings being proposed. While I wholeheartedly endorse the first meeting you describe, I am and have been trying to get everyone to more narrowly focus on the purpose of the second meeting being proposed while also trying to steer you to some objective or objectives which is/are meaningful, measurable and attainable. I have only the highest respect and regard for your experience, knowledge, contributions and goodness of heart and purpose. You have and continue to serve so unselfishly your community and your community of friends and no amount of praise could ever equal what you deserve for your acts of kindness and humanity toward others. I'll be happy to write your speeches any time if you promise not to kill the messenger when we step on toes with message some times. Last edited on Nov 21st, 2006 02:55 am by Jim Flynt |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Under no circumstances do I view your ideas as negative. I am realistic enough to realize I am very negative about the possibilities of good coming out of the second meeting. I hope Patti and Steve are sucessful in pursuing the meeting and I will, if invited, come with as open a mind as I can manage. Thanks for the good thought provoking conversation. |
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PSCone Member
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I think a meeting would be a grand idea. |
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FatPappy Member
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Wow! Really good thought-provokin' comments. Unfortunately Pappy's bein' work-provoked right now an' ain't able to add much to the discussion. Y'all keep it goin' an' ol' Pappy'll jump in directly, soon's I get this batch corked. |
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FatPappy Member
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Mr Jim, yer ol' Pappy ain't ignorin' you. I keep pluggin' some ponderin' into the coin slot an' pullin' the lever, but all I get is three lemons. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: Mr Jim, yer ol' Pappy ain't ignorin' you. I keep pluggin' some ponderin' into the coin slot an' pullin' the lever, but all I get is three lemons. An Ode To Pappy I hasten not to chasten Your lack of machination Knowing your constitution You'll offer up solution With rhetorical proclamation Last edited on Nov 22nd, 2006 12:59 am by Jim Flynt |
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jimia Member 
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The two new members obviously have an agenda. Serve as obstructionist in an effort to not spend money or inprove the town in any manner. That is not the intention or objective of Goverment no matter what your politics is. How anyone could not see the value of parks, recreation areas, volunteer service is beyond me! Growth is inevitable, but it can and should be managed. By adapting a no change at all cost, we all lose bigtime in the end because the growth will be inposed upon us with no say in the matter. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:An Ode To Pappy Hee hee! The problem seems quite whoppin' As my razor I keep stroppin' Hopin' idees will start poppin' But as yet, ain't nuthin' hoppenin'! |
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Hairbrush Member
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Well, I seem to have gotten an email from Dwayne again. With all that spare time he has, he has figured out who I am on the board. Oh my goodness, he is so right. I am Beth Kaplan. Proud daughter of former council woman Jane Doggett. I will continue to use my user name because I happen to love it and think nothing wrong of using a different name on a public bulletin board, but I am tired of being harassed about my user name. Here is the email that was sent to me and my answer. Sorry it is so long. I did take out some email addresses and some work information. Yeah Dwayne, I am so glad to know that you are so efficient with your council duties that you have time to look through all those forum postings so that you can discover who I am. Kudos to you!!!!! What makes me angry, besides getting unsolicited emails to my work computer, is that you think I am hiding behind this user name so that I can make inaccurate and deceptive comments on the board. As you stated, I have hardly had any trouble sending an editorial to the Northwest Observer or standing in front of the Council to let them know my thoughts on things. I guess sending out flyers during an election with misinformation (like a 2.2 million dollar amphitheatre) or putting that same information on a table at a council meeting is the honorable way to get your agenda across. Now I am not saying that you directly did these things but you are a founding member of the Concerned Citizens and Gail Dunham is the president of said organization. I know that you stated that you were no longer a member but your name still appears as the contact person on the website and you have really given no real reason on why you are no longer a member. And if campaign contributions from the Concerned Citizens could be made public I am sure I would see your name as one of the ones they contributed money. But back to the inaccurate and deceptive way information, in your opinion, is put on the forum. It is a forum, which by definition means it is a public discussion group. A lot of times these forums are used to discuss politics. You have been asked to participate and have chosen not to and THAT is your decision. In case you forgot, you decided to run for the Summerfield Town Council. You managed to be elected and thus you are up for discussion. You make decisions that affect the town, like it is too political to let a town member put up “Welcome to Summerfield” signs, but instead let it become a government function. Well I have yet to see a town sign. Or how about not wanting to waste the Town’s money by sending Christmas cards to the hard working volunteers and instead you donated the money for the Christmas cards. Well really you didn’t donate the money, it works out that it is about the same as the stipend that you voted for yourself this year. Oh but wait it is okay for the town to use up to $1000 to notify citizens that their garbage pick up is going to go up. Isn’t that for Republic to do? I didn’t think the town itself was paying for garbage. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Oh but wait, let’s see there seems to be meeting after meeting about the Mayor and his abuse of power, which the Town Attorney has told us again and again that there was no abuse of power. Yet there was no mention of your abuse of power. I certainly consider deciding to post unauthorized information on the Town Website an abuse of power. In fact I consider it unethical. You stated in a previous email that I might want to suppress these documents. I have no desire to suppress these documents I just want the proper channels followed, isn’t that what the concerned citizens are shouting all the time? Don’t they believe that government should follow the proper channels? We have a historical committee that would be happy to make sure the documents that you wanted to post on the webpage are authentic and kept in a place that all town members could read if so wanted. But besides posting these documents on the webpage being unethical now you have broken my trust, I trusted that when the Mayor asked that you be allowed access to the webpage that you would update the minutes, make sure the agenda was updated and make sure the webpage ran smoothly. I never thought you would go to such extremes. What else did you do while you had permission to update the website? Did you sell my information to other entities? Did you change what I needed to pay in taxes? Is that where you got my email address? Can I even trust the new webmaster since you had a part in deciding who should run the webpage? And let’s talk about why I might not want to talk to you on the phone. First let’s set the record straight. You called twice. And I am sure you called just so you could figure out if I was really Hairbrush. I returned you second call only to never have you call again. I think I might have added on the message that I left you that I would be happy to talk to you at a function or a town meeting. I could be wrong on that, but I am sure that you kept a tape so you can check on it for me. And you know what I don’t think you have yet approached me out in public to discuss anything. I don’t trust that you are not taping my phone call, so I will never talk to you on the phone about any of this. I did feel as a good neighbor and because I was raised correctly that I should return your call and so I did. I am disgusted by how you have dealt with these things. You made a mistake. Own up to it, but do not try to turn this around from you to me. I did nothing wrong. I joined a public forum and happened to ask some important questions and stated my opinion on some things. Okay, maybe I did make one mistake. I am taking time out of my busy day to reply to your emails, but I am tired of this bullying. I want the public to know this is how one of their council members behaves. He secretly lurks on a forum and spends who know how much time reading through postings to see if he can figure out who everyone is. I will be happy to discuss things with you publicly on the forum. I will be posting under Hairbrush. I happen to like my username. If you had taken the time to get to know me you would know that is what my niece called me when she was little. She couldn’t say Aunt Beth so she said Hairbrush. Of course, if you had bother to talk to me in public you would not have had to read back through all those posting to know that I worked at Camp Seafarer and graduated from NCSU. I am always happy to talk about those things. Shoot I was even in the Peace Corps, imagine that. Now please remove my email from your email list. You know where to find me and don’t worry. I will be bringing these same points up at the next town meeting. See I have never hid behind my username. Beth Kaplan
From: Dwayne Crawford Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 1:55 AM To: Beth Kaplan Subject: Re: [Fwd: flyer] Beth, I've given considerable thought to the manner that I should respond to last correspondence. Referring to the attached document, lets begin with how I know your pseudonym on the forum is "hairbrush"...
You've no doubt noted that my response is limited (as much as you're currently aware of) to just you and your sister, Mary. I assure you that no one else has been BCC'd in this correspondence. Why do I not defend myself and lay out what I know to the same people to whom you've inaccurately asserted that I am wrong? I'll let you think on that for a bit... I wish to respond to your many other points, but I too have to get up for work in the AM. Being extremely self critical of my own writing (therefore slow) doesn't help matters either. Will follow up soon. Oh, and sorry for calling you so late. I was not aware of your schedule - it won't happen again. Please be aware the one time you did call back, I had assumed you wouldn't (like the time or two before) so I ran out for a pizza - don't think I was here and I purposefully didn't answer your call - I don't even subscribe for caller ID. Mary, what is my concern with the identities of folks on the forum? Ninety percent of the folks who post are of no concern - its the five to ten percent or so who intentionally post inaccurate or deceptive information and then self-ritiously (sp?) claim their intentions are noble and others who do the same are just plain bad people. That these cowards are doing this only because the NWO provides them the anonymity, I have shared this concern with that paper. Your mother, Mike Stewart, and others who use their real names would not dare post something that is intentionally inaccurate - otherwise they would be held accountable. Dwayne |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Jim Flynt wrote: DOGGETTJA wrote:Does anybody know how to get in touch with Jimmy Carter? |
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Hairbrush Member
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Oh Jimmy Carter would be perfect. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Hairbrush wrote:
And I wonder what others names would appear on that list? Beth, I think there are laws which do require groups such as Concerned Citizens to report their contributions and list of contributors. It might be more than a little interesting to follow the money in this instance and see if the CC's aren't practicing equivocation and deceit with a big smattering of duplicity thrown in. Perhaps the Northwest Observer staff or one of the interested parties here could explore with the NC Secretary of State's Office and the State Board of Elections as to whether this group is and has been in compliance with the laws of our state? How can a group espouse and demand clean government when they can't or won't provide open and transparent access to their own political funding and support? Makes you wonder doesn't it? Inquiring minds want to know. And inquiring minds ARE going to find out. Last edited on Nov 27th, 2006 05:02 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Hairbrush is Pappy's hero! ]Whatever name you go by, you'll always be Hairbrush to us! If Monsewer Crawford intended his email to silence an' intimidate, boy was he wrong! Wrong again! |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy has a good secure feelin' about our town knowin' The Boy Defective is on the job rootin' out enemies of the state. That's the kind of town bidness we like to see our elected officials so energetically pursue. Great job! Keep our town movin' forward! (Note to lurker-you-know-who: I know you have a hard time "getting" the point, so I'll he'p you out this once an' reveal that my comment above was sarcasm. And no, I didn't spell detective wrong.) |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Hairbrush is a great name and you have a good reason to be proud of it. Don't feel ashamed and I don't think anyone is hiding behind a name so they can post lies or half truths here. Unlike some hiding behind the name Concerned Citizens spreading lies and half truths (YES I SAID LIES AND HALF TRUTHS) to meet their own hidden agenda to just stop all progress in any shape or form. I don't hide behind the name Baseball Buddy. Everyone knows who I am. I have had that name for over 20 years since college. Also, It is in my profile. DC didn't have to search very hard for that one. I post only what I have personal knowledge of not second hand or someone's gossip. If I have said something in error I will apologize in person and publicly unlike CC's who have yet to apologize for half truths and lies that run rampant.This type of behavior has became the calling card of the CC's. Trying to smear good people's names and reputations to make themselves look better. This reminds me for the insecure girl in school who surrounded herself with ugly girls so she would be the pretty one of the group. (DC don't misquote me here, I did not say that anyone was ugly) Just some food for thought. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:How can a group espouse and demand clean government when they can't or won't provide open and transparent access to their own political funding and support? Makes you wonder doesn't it? Yes it does, Mr Jim. |
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Bubba Guest
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You know HB - I thought you were just sharing some JUNK email. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Oh Dwayno If you used half the time you spent stalking Hairbrush's postings, to do some good for the town you were elected to represent (PS - you ain't gettin the job done), you'd probably be one heck of a councilperson. But you didn't, you haven't, and you're not. Anybody whose worried about $.45 on a garbage bill just doesn't know how to look at the big picture. Hey man.............no anonymity here, want me to say this in a TC meeting, or to the NWO?? Last edited on Nov 28th, 2006 12:09 am by Steve Adkins |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Hairbrush wrote: others who use their real names would not dare post something that is intentionally inaccurate - otherwise they would be held accountable. So now Dwayne says Anonymity = Inaccurate?? Bull !! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Hairbrush wrote: Mary, what is my concern with the identities of folks on the forum? Ninety percent of the folks who post are of no concern - its the five to ten percent or so who intentionally post inaccurate or deceptive information and then self-ritiously (sp?) claim their intentions are noble and others who do the same are just plain bad people. That these cowards are doing this only because the NWO provides them the anonymity, I have shared this concern with that paper. Your mother, Mike Stewart, and others who use their real names would not dare post something that is intentionally inaccurate - otherwise they would be held accountable. Hairbrush is my hero too Pappy! And all along, I was thinkin' Hairbrush had to be Donald Trump or Don King or somebody Let's see if I can help with that spelling question.... RIGHTEOUSLY? - morally upright - justifiable - without guilt or sin. RIOTOUS? - given to or marked by unrestrained revelry, boisterous, hilariously funny. I think either one fits. And now that he's put it out there in writing that Jane and Mike wouldn't DARE post anything inaccurate, then I guess he's admittin' that everything they've said up to this point is the truth. I think it is remarkable that he doesn't cite examples of the so called "intentional inaccuracies" posted by the five to ten percent..... Could it be that there were no intentional inaccuracies to cite? If he sends you that follow-up Hairbrush (By the way, sooooo cute how you got that name!) post them so we can see what he's spendin' all his time workin' on. Boy defective.... that was a good one Pappy! |
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FatPappy Member
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I wish all these non-cowards would be brave enough to join the forum an discuss things. Less stalkin', more talkin'. |
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macca Member
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Hee hee!! I just had to chuckle when I read Hairbrush's post (THANK YOU, HB!! For the info as well as the laugh!! ) Here I was giving DC all this credit for hacking into the secret code of the forum and all, when in reality he was researchin' us from our postings! If he KNOWS that we lie, then why would he think we tell the truth about our lives??? PS -- I am actually a visitor from another planet -- OOOPPPSSS! I guess that makes me an ALIEN!! Oh, yeah! And I live in Madison!! |
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SaltyDog Member
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"Ninety percent of the folks who post are of no concern " Is that what Dwayne thinks of his constituents? Please, can someone explain to me what is Dwayne's problem? What lies and inaccuracies are being posted by anonymous or otherwise. This sneaking around the forum is just plain weird. Last edited on Nov 28th, 2006 01:16 am by SaltyDog |
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FatPappy Member
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macca wrote:If he KNOWS that we lie, then why would he think we tell the truth about our lives??? Selective deductive reasonin'? Lack of reasonin'? I just think that whole stalkin' thang is creepy. It's just weird an' creepy. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Pappy, wasn't it Dwayne who famously remarked: I stink therefore I am? |
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StewartM Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: Your mother, Mike Stewart, and others who use their real names would not dare post something that is intentionally inaccurate - otherwise they would be held accountable.Dwayne there are 4 others you can add to that list.......... |
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FatPappy Member
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SaltyDog wrote:Please, can someone explain to me what is Dwayne's problem? What lies and inaccuracies are being posted by anonymous or otherwise. This sneaking around the forum is just plain weird. I agree, Salty. It is weird. Maybe Dwayne or one of his googleplex o' BCC recipients can get on here an' explain where the inaccuracies are. We don't want to be one-sided about it. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I just wish I had as much time as DC to do the research that he has done on me. Now if he would only use that energy for good. Can you imagine what we would have? I am sure that we would already have baseball fields and more than one park. Instead DC and BS seem stuck on what they can stop instead of start. I am still shocked that they wanted a public hearing for the armfield park. What is going to be discussed that we don't want the land? We don't need soccer fields? To me it seems we ought to say done deal and move on. We still have those baseball fields to find. I also don't understand why BS doesn't want to move ahead and have both potential baseball parcels investigated? She seems awfully against that Friddle property. Is there something going on here? Of course the property may not be suitable for what we need, but shouldn't we at least take the time to research it? Maybe it is that old not in backyard thinking that is keeping BS from researching the Friddle property. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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These accusations have been going on for up to 3 years now. "Oh somebody did something wrong." There has never been any proof that anybody on the council has ever done anything other than for the good of the town until now despite the constant scrutiny of 1000 of pages of documents. The lies just keep rolling out from the cc's. A 2.2 million dollar Ampitheater? That is a lie. Total park cost is in that range with hopefully half of it being paid for by the PartF grant. "The Town council held illegal meetings." That is so a lie. All the closed sessions I was involved in were approved by our attorney at the time. The agenda's were approved and he was in each and every meeting. To my knowledge I never met outside of close session with more than 2 other council members even at the grocery store. I think the thing that bothers me most about all of this is the implication that until the Concerned Citizens came along the Town was stupid and all the council members were there for their own private gain. Like this skulking around, accusing people , insulting citizens and council members is better. |
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FatPappy Member
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Beautiful, Jane! |
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Lacka Member
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FatPappy wrote:
Weird and Creepy is right!! I received an email at work from DC. I spoke with the IT people there and they are investigating. He has been blocked from sending emails to my work address. Just a thought for those of you who are also recieving unwanted emails. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I am an Engineer, not an MD. However I'm also a Parent who raised a bunch of kids, and paid alot of medical bills, and recognize behaviors when I see them. My step son (now age 24) was 2 when I married his mother, had/has a variety of mental issues that caused him to be a real pain in adolescence, and a more "sophisticated" pain as an adult. Charms the socks off those who meet him the first time or two, but folks quickly see thru him after a few encounters. Condition & Behaviors: ODD - Oppositional Defiance Disorder - "I'm right, you're wrong, and you're stupid" "If you disagree with me, I am going to talk my way in circles trying to beat you down with foolishness, and as I twist the facts in my head during my thought process, I'll start believing them and treat you like you're stupid & you're telling lies when you don't believe my twisted way of thinking. I also cannot stand people talking about me when I'm not around and in control of the discussion. Easily flash to anger. I also become an expert on any given subject soon after I hear it the first time" OCD - Obsessive Compulsive Disorder - "I get some little miniscule idea in my head, and build it up to be a mountain, then spend inordinate amounts of time justifying the mountain exists" OCD is not just washing your hands 50X/day. My step son knows his mother & I are many years wise to his behaviors, they are not welcome at our house, or when in a public situation with us. Neither will we back down if he tries to pull any of them on us. The net effect is he still tries to pull them on other unassuming people. |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged fer the insight, Steve. Pappy ain't no MD neither, but it don't take much studyin' to see somethin's seriously not right around here. I mean we're talkin' 'bout a duly elected town leader! An' he cain't deal with situations no better than this? An' they expect people to believe in 'em ag'in next time??!! HA! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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one other comment on ODD If you Google it, the lion's share of the articles that pop up would lead the reader to believe the condition is limited to children & adolescents. If you read the symptoms, it's not too hard to think of some adults who have the same symptoms. Makes one wonder if some folks never grew up |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Tuesday night is council meeting. Come on everybody. Lets have some participation at speakers from the floor. Lets start getting some of our concerns in the minutes. |
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Hairbrush Member
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Just noticed on the town agenda and it seems they are having a closed session. Do you think they might be discussings DC unethical behavior? I wonder if BS will ride DC like she has been riding the Mayor. That business about the Mayor having too much power when signing checks and about his supposedly abuse of power when he asked staff to research the PUD is just hogwash. Now we have a real problem and it really needs to be looked at by the council. Wonder if she will be all up in arms about that. Also I really think the council needs to discuss the cartoon material that Mom has been placing on the table at all the council meetings. I think the only things to be placed on that table should be approved by the Council. |
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bama80 Member
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what's to keep the first citizen through the door from picking up all the material and accidentally forgetting to share it with anyone else? Easy mistake to make if you ask me. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Good Job Doggett family for nailing Dwayne Crawford squarely between the eyes tonight. It was great to see the family participation. Dwayne's misbehavior came back to haunt him tonight. |
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SaltyDog Member
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Steve - I couldn't be there. Please explain |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Good Job Doggett family for nailing Dwayne Crawford squarely between the eyes tonight. It was great to see the family participation. Good job Steve-O! You did a pretty awesome job addressing the council yourself! Salty, three members of the Doggett family (and Steve) spoke during the speakers from the floor portion of the meeting and addressed issues that are concerning a lot of citizens, such as the fact that Councilman Crawford's posting of information on the town's website that was not approved by council and the "stalking" of various forum members in an effort to impede their first ammendment rights. I would like to request that Steve, Hairbrush and any others who spoke post their speeches (or allow them to be posted by someone else) on this forum so that folks who couldn't attend can read them. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Hairbrush Sister first spoke and excoriated Dwayne for posting of unauthorized material on the Summerfield Town Website. She also was critical for the TC's over-gracious reception of Armfield (sp?) property, but rebuffing "welcome to Summerfield" signs by another person. Donations are donations. Her final comment was something like" it would be nice if Mr Crawford could use his time for something more productive than lurking on the forum" (not exact words, but best I can recall). Becky STrickland made a comment that Armfield was a non-profit, and the developer was a for-profit...............Can someone tell me what's the difference when it comes to bettering Summerfield? Hairbrush then got up and excoriated Dwayne for his recent email trying to unveil those posting on the forum under user names, she spent 5 full minutes without missing one beat castigating him for his misbehavior, his abuse of power, his loss of trust with his constituency, his invasion of privacy. Absolutely awesome presentation. At the end, Dwayne acknowledged he was blocked from sending Hairbrush emails, but invited her & her sister to dinner at his expense to reinstate discussions. Hairbrush's father then got up, and excoriated Dwayne a 3rd time for sending him an unsolicited email that was critical of his daughters. Said Dwayne was not the kind of leader he wanted representing him. Dwayne made a bumbling excuse about the email mistake, tried to make it sound like an honest mistake. Dwayne had his tail between his legs for the balance of the meeting. His misbehavior over the past month was made very public tonight. He stated he had written a software program to allow him to "vacuum" the forum for particular commentary over a large period of time. Last edited on Dec 6th, 2006 03:29 am by Steve Adkins |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Here is my comments to the council on 5 December. Two areas of concern I wish to ask about: The first is distribution of information at the entrance table. There does not appear to be an approval policy to ensure information distributed on the entrance table at Town Council Meetings is examined & pre-approved. In the past, there have been items of personal opinion distributed with questionable accuracy. The second is the Summerfield Website. There does not appear to be an approval policy as to what information is posted on the Website. Recently a document which supported the personal opinions of a few was put on the website. Although it was later removed, myself & others saw it, and want to know what actions will be taken to prevent a recurrence. The Website is a fine source of information, Citizens depend on it to contain accurate & appropriate information. I would like to ask the council if policies do exist in these two areas, if so where they can be viewed, and if not, if they could be developed? These policies are needed to address recent actions of individuals trying to present skewed & misleading information. (I was directed to call Mike Brandt for answers on Wednesday, so will update you as to what Mike tells me........I am confident Mike will have accurate answers) Last edited on Dec 6th, 2006 03:30 am by Steve Adkins |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Thanks Steve... I forgot about the sign issue that Mary brought up (VERY good point she made, by the way) and the entrance table "coloring pages" that you brought up. Again, great job! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Oh! Who brought up that point about Dwayne giving money to the town for Christmas cards and the possible conflict of interest? (I can't remember the exact details right now) Somebody recap that for the non-attendees please. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Jane, or Hairbrush, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was Mr Doggett who brought that one up.........and it was a great zinger !!!!!! |
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macca Member
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It all sounds great! Wish I could've been there! I'm proud of all of those who spoke up!!! ♥♥♥ |
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Jim Flynt Member
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macca wrote: It all sounds great! Wish I could've been there! I'm proud of all of those who spoke up!!! ♥♥♥ Democracy is alive and well in Summerfield tonight! Good job folks! |
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StewartM Member
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It was nice to see real Summerfield people stand up last night and tell the truth...... Mom got there late and missed all the fun....But she did get there in time to see her boy buy a new tape recorder (without the laptop) for $3900 (I think that was the price). He is not saving the taxpayer any money but now Mom will not have to pay for copies of the town's minutes, she can download them and have her own recording. Well I guess it will save a lot of trees. The problem is we still have the old sound system and only $3900 worth of software... |
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FatPappy Member
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Did anyone hear Clown Councilman ¢rawford ever apologize fer his behavior? Pappy's proud o' them Doggets! Proud o' Steve too! |
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Skiddles Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Democracy is alive and well in Summerfield tonight!Democracy was alive and well last night. Thank you to all that spoke! I was proud of everyone of you and especially proud of the Doggett family. |
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Skiddles Member
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No, Pappy I didn't hear any apologies. Just a bunch of head rubb'n. |
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Hairbrush Member
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Oh you guys are making me blush. I just couldn't keep quiet about what Dwayne had been doing and I told him in my last email that I would bring it before the council. I am sadden that he still couldn't see what he did was wrong. I truly believe he was sincere in wanting to pay me and my sister dinner and start a dialogue, but the only place I am going to discuss matters with him is at town functions and on this board. Here is a copy of the speech. I do have to give credit to my brother, who is the one who will have the PhD in communication. First I would like to thank the Youth Council for wonderful tree lighting. What a wonderful night for fellowship and good food. It is times like this that show me what a wonderful town we have and we should all be proud. Unfortunately, I would like to talk about something not so outstanding. I would like to talk about the posting of unauthorized material on our Town Website and the way Mr. Crawford has handled himself since the incident. Mr. Crawford, with the blessing of the council, had been given permission to update the town’s webpage. It seems that the old webmaster was unable to keep up with our webpage and Mr. Crawford offered to keep up the webpage until the town could hire a new webmaster. Makes sense to me. Mr. Crawford seems to have a lot of knowledge about computer programs and why not use our own talent. The mayor and council were behind it and a couple of people on the Northwest Observer webpage discussed how he seemed very competent. But Mr. Crawford then took it upon himself to post an unapproved flyer and some surveys on the town website. I couldn’t believe he would actually do this. It was discussed on the Northwest Observer webpage about how I believed this was unethical and that I couldn’t believe something would be posted without prior approval from the council. Talk about an abuse of power. If Ms. Strickland thought the mayor was abusing his power by asking the staff to research other town’s PUD’s without council consent then she must be ready to have Mr. Crawford’s head. It seems to me the logical thing to do would be for Mr. Crawford to explain to the people of Summerfield why he felt the need to post these documents and apologize for his transgression. But that is not what Mr. Crawford did. Instead he sent out an email accusing me of wanting to suppress this historical document. The email was sent to lots of other people and BCC’d to supposedly more. Of course I responded to this email and I posted it on the public Northwest observer forum. I know I should have left it alone, but I felt that Mr. Crawford was trying to bully me into saying that what he did wasn’t that bad and it is bad and unethical. It seems that Mr. Crawford couldn’t leave it alone either as he then emailed me to let me know why he was concerned with my actual identity on the Northwest observer forum. I quote “What is my concern with the identities of folks on the forum? Ninety percent of the folks who post are of no concern – it is the five to ten percent or so who intentionally post inaccurate or deceptive information and then self-righteously claim their intentions are noble and others who do the same are plain bad people. That these cowards are doing this only because the NWO provides them the anonymity, I have shared this concern with that paper.” I am not advocating that these documents that Mr. Crawford posted on the town website be suppressed but instead I want the proper channels followed. We expect the mayor to only write checks for items that have been approved in the budget. The council must approve the minutes before they are put up for public view. We ask developers to follow the town ordinances. Is this not what we as a town and the concerned citizens are wanting, responsible government? Don’t we all believe that government should follow the proper channels? We have a historical committee that would be happy to make sure the documents that Mr. Crawford wanted to post on the webpage are authentic and would be kept in a place that all town members could read if so wanted. Also, if Mr. Crawford wanted people to read these documents he could have stuck it over there on the table with the handouts that Ms. Dunham leaves. Of course I think that policy should be ended also, but that is a discussion for another day. I have never intentionally posted inaccurate or deceptive information on the forum. In fact, Mr. Crawford has pages of my postings dating back to the first of the year where he has taken the time to match what I have written on the forum to what I have said in the council meetings or have written in my editorials. I think Mr. Crawford is using this tactic to try to intimidate me from posting on the forum. The facts are that Mr. Crawford was elected by some people to represent the town. He now sits on the council. He now represents me even though I did not vote for him. I hold him to the same standard as all other council members. I want him to be ethical, fair, honest, thorough and trustworthy. He broke that trust when he posted unauthorized material on the town’s website. How do I know that he didn’t do other things while he was updated the webpage? How do I trust his word? How do I also know that he is thorough in his town business? He certainly seemed to put a lot of time in discovering who I was on the forum, but does he have the same time for the town? He has broken the town’s trust and now I don’t even know if I can trust the new town webmaster because Mr. Crawford had a hand in picking him out. How can I trust that he has the best interest of the town in mind when he researches recording equipment for the town? I am disgusted by how Mr. Crawford has handled himself. He made a grave mistake. He needs to own up to it. He does not need to try to intimidate me and infringe on my right of freedom of speech. I did nothing wrong. Mr. Crawford works for me and the town. I do not work for him. If I want to post my opinion about how I think this council is doing on a public discussion forum then I will and I am allowed that right. And I will let you know right here and now that I will not put up with my councilman doing something unethical. And I will certainly point out if I feel him untrustworthy. Mr. Crawford pushed his own agenda by posting those documents on the website. He did not have backing of the council and he didn’t have backing of the town as he didn’t hold a public hearing. When caught in the act he decided to harass a citizen of this town who happens to post on a public discussion board using a username instead of owning up to what he did. That is unethical and it makes him untrustworthy. Thank you. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: Did anyone hear Clown Councilman ¢rawford ever apologize fer his behavior? I believe that after Steve spoke about unapproved documents being placed on the town's website, Crawford said that the council had been "appraised" or "informed" of the incident (don't remember exact wording) and it wouldn't happen again. He did not admit guilt or apologize. When Hairbrush spoke, she made sure that Crawford's actions were on public record. He still did not apologize. Just offered to buy her dinner. |
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macca Member
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Skiddles wrote:
Surely he didn't expect that people would just take what he did without responding..... Sounds like it backfired bigtime if he did.... Many thanks to all of you who are standing up to this kind of behavior! ♥♥♥ |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Wow, I missed a good one. I couldn't be there due to illness. My wife could tell my butt was on fire and wanted to go to the meeting but I was too sick. Thanks Steve and All the Doggetts I would have loved to see and share this with all. Why did DC not say I am sorry for my actions? Is a bribe to go to dinner an exchange? Well why not take the whole Town to dinner DC? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Gee... hope you feel better Baseball Buddy! Another interesting thing Dwayne said during the meeting... Maybe after Hairbrush spoke in reference to Crawford "cross referencing" her postings/editorials etc. He said that he wrote a little computer program that copies the forum while he is away from his computer and then he has it cross reference all this other stuff he has collected about us and it really doesn't take much of his time. Ok... why? Why would he need to copy the forum and cross reference what we say if his intention is not to harrass us? That's just ODD. |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Pappy cain't think of any other reason. Reminds me o' the kid who couldn't stack his blocks as purty as the other kids so he knocks theirs down. |
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SaltyDog Member
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Thanks Steve, Jane, Hairbrush, et. al. - you guys are awesome for standing up for all of us. You said what needed to be said. Unfortunately I don't think Dwayne 'gets it' but I'm sure a lot of other folks do. Dwayne's electronic analysis of the Forum seems like amature hour at the CIA but it is probably harmless. He spent a lot of time and effort trying to figure out who is who - got some right and got some wrong. In the end what has he accomplished? Why can't he just join us here on the forum and let's discuss the issues - might save him a lot of dinner money. SaltyDog - still posting. |
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Starcatchr Member
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Dang, those Doggetts are a boost to honorable people. Thanks, ladies, for saying words that needed to be said. You make us proud. By the way, Hairbrush, you showed your good sense when you declined that invitation. Anyone, especially an elected official, who wastes time writing software to cross reference posts on a forum, is mighty questionable as a dinner companion. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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SaltyDog wrote: Dwayne's electronic analysis of the Forum seems like amature hour at the CIA but it is probably harmless. He spent a lot of time and effort trying to figure out who is who - got some right and got some wrong. In the end what has he accomplished? Steve Adkins wrote: He stated he had written a software program to allow him to "vacuum" the forum for particular commentary over a large period of time. Most of y'all have probably figured this out already, but any member can view all postings of any member. Go to members, select one, view profile, click on posts, and voila, you have a listing of every post a member has made. Doesn't take a rocket scientist. |
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FatPappy Member
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SaltyDog wrote:Why can't he just join us here on the forum and let's discuss the issues - might save him a lot of dinner money. Yee Haw! Sic 'em, Salty |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy wrote a little intellegence gatherin' program my own se'f. I set the search parameters to include any positive contributions made by the 2 CC members of the town council since they were elected. And here are the results: <END:> Uh, well, sorry, folks. Somethin' must be wrong. Maybe some aliens zapped the B and D drives. |
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LottieDottie Member 
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More than likely he enters (his software program vacuums) his name and/or initials and wa la he has his reading for the evening. LottieDottie |
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Starcatchr Member
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Due to Holiday cleaning, the spoose was forced to buy a new VACUUMMMMM today. Shem came home with a factory reconditioned model and it works OK. There are some people, too, that would benefit from a little reconditioning. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Who's leg does he think he is pulling. You can view all post of anyone by going to their profile. I'm sure he is capable of writing his own software program, but why? It's already done for you on the forum. With as much time he spends here lurking he should know this. Or is this his way of making people who don't know any better think he's smarter? People who know better laugh! |
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FatPappy Member
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BB, I wondered if'n it was some kind o' lame intimidation tactic, too. He seems to think in those terms. Mebbe he'll join the forum an' explain. Last edited on Dec 7th, 2006 08:03 pm by FatPappy |
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FatPappy Member
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Dwayne, you out there, boy? When you gonna give up your lurkin' ways an' join the forum. I know you want to. We'll he'p you think up a forum name. |
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dmauser Member
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Tuesday night was the first TC meeting I had been able to attend in several months. I was appalled about the 'vaccuming' of this forum. Do we have an ethics clause for our elected officials. No elected officials should be able to harress a private citizen. verbal or electronically, In reverse, when a person runs for an office and is elected, they are then a 'public persona' and as such become a target. Some are more easily targeted than others. |
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FatPappy Member
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Just thought I'd come in out the cold an' check up on forum happenin's. Dwayne, you on here yet, boy? Don't you think it's time you stepped out on the dance floor instead o' peepin' in the winders? Come on in out the cold, son. Yer Pappy's waitin' fer you. I ain't goin' out to eat with you, though. Nooooo. Say looky here, Dwayne. Fiscal responsibility. That's a CC buzzword, right? Open gov'ment. Another good idee. See? We got us some common ground right thar. Pappy believes them thangs is good, too. Don't you wanna discuss thangs with your constituents? Or would you rather chloroform 'em an' stick 'em on a display board like specimen bugs? Then what? If you snag ever'body in your clever (ha ha ha ha ha!...sorry, didn't mean to laugh) uh, clever little traps, then what? We're still us an' you're still you, right? Then what? What have you accomplished? What exactly have you accomplished? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Pappy, Will Rogers had nothing on you. You're one of a kind and a writer sine qua non. In a battle of wits with you, poor ol' Dwaynie Boy would be fighting unarmed. |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged, Mr Jim. I'd seriously like to hear from the boy (Dwayne), but I don't expect much. Who knows. |
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macca Member
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I would say, "The Shadow knows," but since we've got our own "shadow," folks might think I mean him... and, well, I guess in this case that could be accurate. He'd be the only one who would know if he's gonna step up..... |
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FatPappy Member
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'Course now, Dwayne could be postin' under a alias, but if he is, he's a bigger fraud than Pappy. I cain't recollect many pro-CC posts or pro-Dwayne posts, so I'm assumin' Dwayne's either not postin' or he's postin' against his beliefs fer some reason. Pappy's waitin' fer you on the cyber field o' honor, Dwayne, or fer anybody who believes the same as you do, which I reckon would narrow the field down purty much to just you. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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macca wrote: I would say, "The Shadow knows," but since we've got our own "shadow," folks might think I mean him... and, well, I guess in this case that could be accurate. He'd be the only one who would know if he's gonna step up..... In this particular case, I think Dwayne is like the dog that chases the car, but when he catches it, he doesn't know what to do with it. The dog is so busy with the chase, he hasn't given a thought to what he's going to do with the car after he catches it. After he barks at it awhile, and stares at it awhile, he tucks his tail between his legs and walks away. Dwayne had his tail between his legs Tuesday night. So Dwayne, as I get sucked into your vacuum, I am wondering, will you deal with the car???? Do you even know how to deal with the car????? Or are you going to keep barking at the car and faking being a tough dog while the occupants of the car are laughing at your foolishness???? Or will you walk away????? |
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FatPappy Member
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Good analogy, Steve. I'm glad you didn't mention what kind o' car it was 'cause he might use that to figger out who you are. He's a master sleuth, ya know! Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Hee hee hee hee hee hee! But seriously, what's the plan, Dwayne? |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I know you guys are poking fun here, which is okay, but I seriously would love to see some open dialogue and debate. I would hope that if somebody got on here that had different ideas or just wanted to debate, they would be welcomed on this forum just like anybody else. |
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macca Member
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Oh, I'm sure D-wayne has figgered out that ignorant hicks like us ride around in the "hillbilly-mobile"...... kids hangin' out the winders and all.... (sob) brings back memories of the good ol' days! |
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macca Member
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S. Smith wrote:I know you guys are poking fun here, which is okay, but I seriously would love to see some open dialogue and debate. I would hope that if somebody got on here that had different ideas or just wanted to debate, they would be welcomed on this forum just like anybody else. Sorry, Sandra! We were postin' at the same time...... Just wanted to make sure you know that OF COURSE we would welcome ANYONE AND EVERYONE. I really don't think there has been any question about that.... We have a group on here now who do not always agree but we still have civil repartee' (sp?).... I think everyone is very serious when they invite Dwayne to join in.... He already monitors us, so why not converse with us? We all might learn something, and help resolve some differences.... |
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FatPappy Member
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Thanks fer bringin' that up, Sandra. Macca's right, we welcome differin' views, we're beggin' fer differin' views, an' we've shown we can be civil when we ain't got no choice. These discussions get spirited at times an' I'm the worst fer gettin' carried away from time to time, but I don't think any of us go out of our way to be downright mean about it without some kind o' provocation. Dwayne's made some curious decisions lately an' treated some people purty shabbily an' we'd like to know why. To many of us the CC's are a strangely obtuse group, claimin' they're for open gover'ment but not in their backyard. They want a level playin' field, but not in their backyard. They wanna know ever'body else's bidness, but they keep theirs behind a iron curtain. Maybe these are misconceptions on our part, but how can we clear them up without a dialogue? We would love a dialogue with them an' anybody else. I further think the tone of some recent posts is understandable in response to the outrageous behavior we've been discussin'. But that's just my opinion. Anybody else got a differ'nt one? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: I know you guys are poking fun here, which is okay, but I seriously would love to see some open dialogue and debate. I would hope that if somebody got on here that had different ideas or just wanted to debate, they would be welcomed on this forum just like anybody else. Thank You Sandra, you are correct, and I would diligently welcome anybody's right to free speech in this forum, regardless of their opinion & standing. My comments above regarding the dog chasing the car weren't intended as poking fun, I am dead serious. However, I would seriously welcome someone with a different opinion or angle on the situation. Last edited on Dec 9th, 2006 07:23 pm by Steve Adkins |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Of course we'd welcome dialogue and debate, but if they aren't gonna come and debate with us, then we'll just have to keep on discussing and debating among ourselves. Steve, you really are a master at those analogies. Here are the SFTC members in the Stokesdale Parade.
Bob, you're supposed to THROW the candy!!!!! Just in case you can't tell, that's Mark's chin in the upper left hand corner. I counted only 4 of our council members. Even saw Mark hanging around to clean up afterward. Thanks to Dena, Mark, Bob and Carolyn for representing Summerfield in the Stokesdale parade!! |
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FatPappy Member
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Thanks fer them pitchers, Crackah. Looks like them four councilmembers caught the car and knew what to do after they caught it. Hee hee! |
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WB Member
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Not everyone is going to appreciate my opinion, but WB thinks it's time to say 'Nuff said.' After all, it's the Christmas season and we should make a point of wishing all of our Summerfield neighbors and council members, including Becky and Dwayne, a wonderful Merry Christmas. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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FatPappy wrote: But that's just my opinion. Anybody else got a differ'nt one? Frankly, I wish we had some diverse opinions on this subject, even someone who would play devils advocate. In Washington DC politics, no matter the subject, the Democrats & Republicans are sure to generate healthy (?) debate on all matter.......ie let's raise the minimum wage up (loud cheer from those in minimum wage jobs), critics say.....it will drive inflation up, drive prices up etc (well, now it's time to generate some data to prove or disprove). OK, y'all, we're seeking out some diverse opinions, if you're lurking and don't agree with what is being said here, or see if from a different angle......please jump in. Last edited on Dec 10th, 2006 12:17 am by Steve Adkins |
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Steve Adkins Member
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WB wrote: Not everyone is going to appreciate my opinion, but WB thinks it's time to say 'Nuff said.' After all, it's the Christmas season and we should make a point of wishing all of our Summerfield neighbors and council members, including Becky and Dwayne, a wonderful Merry Christmas. Actually WB, I do appreciate your opinion. I would hope you could help us with some diverse opinions on this subject. Last edited on Dec 10th, 2006 12:18 am by Steve Adkins |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: WB wrote:Not everyone is going to appreciate my opinion, but WB thinks it's time to say 'Nuff said.' After all, it's the Christmas season and we should make a point of wishing all of our Summerfield neighbors and council members, including Becky and Dwayne, a wonderful Merry Christmas. Perhaps WB is saying it's time to stop beating a dead horse? Now that could mean we need to have a funeral and bury the darn thing before the smell gets worse or we could continue to try and breath a little life back into what seems to be nothing more than skin and bones? Is that about right WB? |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy appreciates yer opinion, too, WB! You set the bar kind o' high fer ol' Pappy on that'n, though. Hee hee! |
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FatPappy Member
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It's like a scab, Mr Jim. Pappy cain't he'p but pick at it. If they would just show some sign that they care what the other side has to say, I'd tone it down a notch. But I don't don't see any effort on their part to meet halfway, or anyway. Until somethin' changes, I feel the need to prod, pick, an' poke. |
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Waytago Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Perhaps WB is saying it's time to stop beating a dead horse? If this were truly a dead horse, it would be the right thing to do but this horse is alive & well. as long as Becky Strickland is spewing venom, and Dwayne Crawford is misbehaving on the Town website, and sending his constituents harassing emails, this subject is very valid and very appropriate. As long as these two refuse to participate in town activities they should be proud of (tree lighting, parades, park openings), their poor representation should be duly noted. Sorry, I cannot accept "nuff said" with misbehavior of elected officials, or my own kids. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Merry Christmas Dwayne and Becky!!!!! I wouldn't expect too awful much in my stockin' if I were you though..... WB, I do respect your opinion, and your right to voice it, but I'm afraid I don't agree that enough has been said. I for one, plan to continue pointing out among other things, the harrassment of council members, committee members and members of the community until the citizens of Summerfield wake up and realize the consequences of voter apathy and decide to get out and rectify this sad situation. Perhaps in November 2009, I can finally say "enough said". |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree, Waytago an' Crackah! We need multiple points o' view in town politics. But the CC "group" have never simply argued another side, they have gone beyond acceptable behavior into behind the scenes manipulation an' intimidation tactics as well as shameful public misinformation to force their position. That's wrong and it continues to be wrong. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Pappy I agree, Right is right and wrong is wrong, there is no gray area or half way. The sooner the people of Summerfield realize this the better off Summerfield will be. |
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SaltyDog Member
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How many times and ways can we say it - this forum is open to all opinions and points of view. This is not a club where you are welcome only if you agree with the majority of the posters - but be prepared to defend your position. You may need a tough hide sometimes because this is a place for wide open discussions and posters rarely miss a chance to needle each other. I think the vast majority of the time you will be treated with respect but your opinions can and will be challenged. Come on CCs (and any others who care about future of Summerfield) jump in here - openly or anonymously float your ideas and opinions in this public forum and let's duke it out. The town will be better for it. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: If they would just show some sign that they care what the other side has to say, I'd tone it down a notch. But I don't don't see any effort on their part to meet halfway, or anyway. You set the bar kind o' high. I spent a considerable amount of time over the weekend contemplating the ideas and comments in this thread. Especially did I ponder the comment about how high the bar of political expectations should be set. Perhaps, the bar has not been realistically set, regardless of height, no matter the personal wishes of many. To be fair, no one is complaining or has complained that town council members from Oak Ridge or Stokesdale haven't or don't post here (that we know of). Nor has anyone complained that the members of the Guilford County Board of Commissioners, or Board of Education or the Greensboro City Council don't post their private thoughts here or elsewhere online (that I know of). In fact, it seems that there is an expectation of some that is not even demanded of all. The other 'majority' town council members in Summerfield aren't posting their ideas and thoughts here, so why should we realistically expect such of the two 'minority' members. It is the wise leader who understands that public comments can and do often come back to haunt them at a later date, and from my perspective, while leaders should be accessible to their constituency, that does not require them to engage in public debate with any constituency in their private time away from public duties. Nor are they required to reveal their future political strategies. Can you really imagine Skip Alston or Paul Gibson sharing all of his thoughts with this or any other audience? Can you really imagine any Mayor truly outlining every political aspect of their particular vision of a community or detailing the boundaries of their personal political philosophy? Do we really expect our publicly elected servants to open their lives and minds to us as if they are open books and demand access as if we have some right to know? As I have said before, I really don't have a dog in this fight, but I do think the expectations some of you are espousing are completely unrealistic and I imagine that most of you are smart enough to realize that, whether or not you will admit it. So, to continue to press on with an unrealistic mission unlikely to succeed, is simply to tilt at windmills. And in the end, the long term results may as easily backfire on the taunters as on the tauntees. So to those who would buy into wishing to lower the bar, I can only say: Caveat Emptor. Last edited on Dec 11th, 2006 11:29 pm by Jim Flynt |
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SaltyDog Member
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^^^ Jim your point has some validity but consider this - If a political figure chooses to lurk on this forum, speak about this forum in public meetings, spends time cross-referencing posters comments, and writes widely distributed emails directed to forum participants then it is they who have set the bar high. All candidates and office holders from all the governing bodies have been invited to participate in this forum. It does not shock me that only a few have chosen to do so. You are correct that calls for those associated with the CCs are louder than others but that may be because we are calling them out for their hipocritical stances regarding open government, the ethical behavior of others and their obvious interest in what goes on here. What we are saying is this - If you care about and disagree with the opinions expressed on this forum enough to complain about it publicly then why don't you and/or your supporters join us and counter balance our distasteful opinions? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:
Oh Jim, I think we're all smart enough to know that the pokin' and jokin' that's been directed at BS and DC is not going to coerce them into joining this forum. We are only promising (for Patti and Sandra's sake) to behave if they choose to do so. I think that most of us would admit that we don't in a million years think any semi-sane elected officials would show up here (unless they are campaigning) and voice their opinions online for all to see. In fact, I have said before that I would advise any elected official that I know, to refrain from doing so. Jim Flynt wrote: It is the wise leader who understands that public comments can and do often come back to haunt them at a later date, and from my perspective, while leaders should be accessible to their constituency, that does not require them to engage in public debate with any constituency in their private time away from public duties. I agree, but someone should have told Councilman Crawford. Jim Flynt wrote: Can you really imagine Skip Alston or Paul Gibson sharing all of his thoughts with this or any other audience? Can you really imagine any Mayor truly outlining every political aspect of their particular vision of a community or detailing the boundaries of their personal political philosophy? Can you really imagine Skip, Paul or any Mayor stalking and harrassing citizens who disagree with their ideas and philosophies?
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Steve Adkins Member
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Jim, I applaud you for bringing in diverse opinions. Note the conversation they stimulated. We need more opinions & viewpoints like yours. Participants don't have to agree with each other, actually it provokes more discussion when they don't. Thanks Jim............please post more like it. And other folks too !! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Jim, I applaud you for bringing in diverse opinions. Note the conversation they stimulated. We need more opinions & viewpoints like yours. Participants don't have to agree with each other, actually it provokes more discussion when they don't. Steve, Mama used to say that I would argue with the devil just for the sake of the argument, so it comes rather naturally to me. You can count on the continuation of my arguing for points of view which represent dynamic and creative thinking outside of the box. Insanity is, after all, doing what you have always done and then expecting different results. Last edited on Dec 11th, 2006 11:24 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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SaltyDog wrote: You are correct that calls for those associated with the CCs are louder than others but that may be because we are calling them out for their hipocritical stances regarding open government, the ethical behavior of others and their obvious interest in what goes on here. (1) The current Forum group strategy is not working and undoubtedly will never work. (2) The Forum group is essentially preaching to the choir with the current posts and reposts. (3) For all practical purposes, the Forum group is simply beating a rather dead horse. (4) Arguing with an idiot (the CC's) is like mud wrestling with a pig; the pig loves it and you are only going to get dirty. Think about it: if you really want to hurt someone, the worst thing you can possibly do to that person, is to ignore them. By just ignoring them and then simply moving forward with your own strategic vision and tactical plan to make Summerfield the place it can become, and then selling that plan to the only people who really count, the voters (citizens), you will have increased the power of the positive leadership group while neutering whatever little negative power and influence the cc's and their small minded group ever had. Last edited on Dec 11th, 2006 11:47 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:(1) The current Forum group strategy is not working and undoubtedly will never work. We shall overcome. (2) The Forum group is essentially preaching to the choir with the current posts and reposts. Don't ferget the choir boy. (3) For all practical purposes, the Forum group is simply beating a rather dead horse. If it's dead, how come it hollers now an' then? (4) Arguing with an idiot (the CC's) is like mud wrestling with a pig; the pig loves it and you are only going to get dirty. Think about it: if you really want to hurt someone, the worst thing you can possibly do to that person, is to ignore them. Ignorin' Hitler didn't work. By just ignoring them and then simply moving forward with your own strategic vision and tactical plan to make Summerfield the place it can become, and then selling that plan to the only people who really count, the voters (citizens), you will have increased the power of the positive leadership group while neutering whatever little negative power and influence the cc's and their small minded group ever had. We are movin' forward. This is just a hobby. |
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FatPappy Member
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Salty an' Crackah hit several nails on the head right well, I think, so I'm not gonna add much, except to say the protections of the Geneva convention should extend to logic. When I hear the agonized cries o' tortured logic as it's forced to twist into conclusions the facts don't warrant, I have to protest. The CCs have made a mockery o' open government an' have insulted the decency an' intelligence o' the people o' Summerfield an' continue to do so. Not near 'nuff said, in my opinion. Last edited on Dec 12th, 2006 12:27 am by FatPappy |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: (3) For all practical purposes, the Forum group is simply beating a rather dead horse. See how entertainin' beatin' a dead donkey er... uh... horse can be??? Thanks Jim for playin' devil's advocate, and thanks Pappy for makin' my night!! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote:
That is true. But on the other hand, we did not engage him nor seek to engage him in dialogue. We surmised his rather transparent goals and intentions and then developed our own strategic plan enlisting Allies with common mutual interests to defeat his behaviors and ambitions. Perhaps the majority group should consider a similar plan of engagement to overcome the present adversary which seeks to defeat the majority group purpose and visions. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote:
Pappy, I rather agree with your conclusion. But instead of trying to engage the adversary in worthless dialogue (and it is worthless for the simple reason that the adversary does not share your values), doesn't it make more sense to get your message out to the people who do share your values, i.e., the voters? Neither you, nor me, nor anyone else here is going to change the minds of the CC's and the two minority council persons. But those are only a handful of votes anyway. It cannot be stressed enough, that the larger audience of voters is the only audience deserving of factual and truthful information and if the majority group fails to share and inform the voters then rest assured, the vacuum WILL be FILLED by the tactics, however distasteful and the CC group propaganda, no matter how untruthful and unreliable. Think of all of this simply as a political contest with rather large consequences, but with the final result to be determined not by which group can shout the loudest nor taunt the most, but by which group can connect most effectively with the voters and earn THEIR TRUST. Sadly and unfortunately, the majority of those Summerfield voters are out there and not here on the NWO Forum. Hence my comments about preaching to the choir. I would also urge caution not to publish nor broadcast strategies and political plans here or in any public medium. The other side doesn't. Why should you? Keeping THEM guessing is not a bad political strategy either. The essence of the message to Summerfield voters is and rightfully should be: TRUST. Whom do THEY TRUST to serve their (political) INTERESTS in the days ahead. That is the question, and it is up to each of you and the majority group to provide the answers to the voters. Rest assured, if you don't, the other side will. Last edited on Dec 12th, 2006 11:59 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Mr Jim, your ol' Pappy appreciates you stirrin' thangs up. I think your comments have a lot o' merit an' have given us somethin' to think seriously about. But when you say the forum has no effect an' nobody beyond these cyber walls hears us, I have to say your asusmptions is writin' checks yer facts cain't cash. The forum people are speakin' about what's REAL to them. They're speakin' from the heart. Their opnions have a power an' a legitimacy that cain't be faked, bought, or sold. Pappy may be so old an' slow that I can walk faster than I can run, but I know powerful words have an effect way beyond their birthplace. Powerful words like to travel. They may move slow like Pappy, but when they get there, you know they're in town! Yee Haw! Now, I know an' I figger we all know the forum ain't the be-all an' end-all o' political thought. I agree there needs to be somethin' else beyond it. We'll see, I reckon. Meanwhile, much obliged, ol' buddy fer keepin' us on our toes! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote:
Pappy, I agree with your comments wholeheartedly, especially as (I) outlined and in bold above. It was never my intention to stifle the sharing of thoughts, ideas and opinions here on the Forum amongst friends, but rather to point out the fruitless effort to rein in either the presence or the behavior of the adversary (you see I don't want to flatter them by elevating them to recognition by calling them by their names). Sometime over the Holidays I will try and sit down and reduce to writing a much broader view of how we get from here to there, and from my perspective, it is hardly important whether or not the adversary chooses to follow or simply allows the world to pass them by. Last edited on Dec 12th, 2006 01:20 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Naw, Mr Jim, I didn't think you were tryin' to stifle the forum. Just don't ask me to read no REALPOLITIK book or nuthin'. Hee hee! I still disagree that the forum bears no fruit. The question of how to get from here to there depends on where your "there" is. We might be talkin' about different trails. I don't know if I trust too many fancy political theories, simply because they tend to get too far away from the people. Pappy likes it here amongst the peeps. Lookin' forward to your Tao Te Jim when you write it! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: (1) Naw, Mr Jim, I didn't think you were tryin' to stifle the forum. Just don't ask me to read no REALPOLITIK book or nuthin'. Hee hee! I still disagree that the forum bears no fruit. (2) The question of how to get from here to there depends on where your "there" is. We might be talkin' about different trails. (3) I don't know if I trust too many fancy political theories, simply because they tend to get too far away from the people. Pappy likes it here amongst the peeps. Pappy, my response to your comments follows, broken down as outlined above: (1) I would never ask anyone to read a book on Realpolitick, only to understand that we all live in the world of realpolitick rather than some illusory fantasyland. I ask only that you see the world as it is, recognizing of course, that it is also permissible to dream of and try to engender the changes to what the world ought to be, or you wish it to be. That having been said, the political strategist must devise goal oriented strategies with some eye toward a goal or vision with the keen understanding and acceptance of the way the world really is and not how he the world should be. That is called living authentically in the world of realpolitick. (2) Pappy, I agree with you wholeheartedly, that it is absolutely critical to a discussion to have an agreement or understanding of where "there" is so that we may either disagree on the ends or unite as a team to arrive "there" together through a community effort. (More about this specific idea in my forthcoming Tao as you label it). (3) Pappy, what you label as 'political theory' is in a way, just another word for a common sense view of how politics and governance works. Political theory as I use the word, is simply more of a focused description of that which you already know from both your common sense and your mature observations. While I have studied political science in more formal settings, the ideas are similar if not the same. I do agree with you that there are many trails which can and would take one from 'here' to 'there' and we may or may not agree on which trail is more likely to be the more productive one. As it has been said by the Buddha, there are many roads on the path to enlightenment. I ask only that you see that Summerfieldians will share the journey toward some collective destination even if they choose different individual paths. Last edited on Dec 12th, 2006 02:28 pm by Jim Flynt |
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SaltyDog Member
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This may sound like I want to live in a Utopian world but I dislike the fact that most politicians highest goal seems to be getting elected. That is why they play it close to the vest, have hidden agendas and secret strategies. George W Bush can't even admit to ever making a mistake because he is afraid (and rightly so) that someone will make a political ad using a sound bite that make it look like everyting he does is a mistake. I know this would confound the political consultants but why not state your positions, explain you goals, publicize your strategies? It's too bad it that being transparent and forthcoming with your constituents seems niaeve, unsophisticated and fruitless. I like politicians that trust the voters - as ignorant, apathetic and stupid as the electorate can be, we still seem to get it right more often than some elitest politician who doesn't listen to us. OK it's time for me to dismount from this high-horse that is standing on a soapbox. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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SaltyDog wrote: (1) This may sound like I want to live in a Utopian world but I dislike the fact that most politicians highest goal seems to be getting elected. That is why they play it close to the vest, have hidden agendas and secret strategies. George W Bush can't even admit to ever making a mistake because he is afraid (and rightly so) that someone will make a political ad using a sound bite that make it look like everyting he does is a mistake. My response to your comments Salty are as follows: (1) Again, one must accept that it is only the elected officials who are in the position of power to make change. There is no consolation prize of consultation or power which flows to the loser in a political contest. So if your goal is to effectuate change, your means would require a focus on winning the political election contest. As harsh as it might sound, in the world of Realpolitick, winning is not only everything, it is the only thing. Idealism without power remains nothing more than idealism unrealized. (2) The political consultants are not confused at all. They understand that to embrace full disclosure would be a guaranteed method for electoral failure in the voting booths and at the hands of a generally uninformed citizenry. Full disclosure might unveil that a candidate is incompetent, immoral, unethical, lazy, self serving, or just plain and simply stupid. In other words, less is more. Last edited on Dec 12th, 2006 02:40 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:(2) The political consultants are not confused at all. They understand that to embrace full disclosure would be a guaranteed method for electoral failure in the voting booths and at the hands of a generally uninformed citizenry. Full disclosure might unveil that a candidate is incompetent, immoral, unethical, lazy, self serving, or just plain and simply stupid. In other words, less is more. There again, I have to ask, where is the "there" this leads to? Is it a good place? This sounds like destroyin' the village in order to save it. What are we left with? |
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SaltyDog Member
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Full disclosure might unveil that a candidate is incompetent, immoral, unethical, lazy, self serving, or just plain and simply stupid. Well we certainly wouldn't want any of that revealed. What a concept - find a candidate who is not - incompetent, immoral, unethical, lazy, self serving, or just plain and simply stupid - and then fully disclose those facts. Last edited on Dec 12th, 2006 03:08 pm by SaltyDog |
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FatPappy Member
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My response to Salty's post is summed up in two words: "Yee Haw!" In Latin, "Cave Canem." (Beware the Dog!) Hee hee! Just messin' with you, Mr JIm. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote:
Pappy, you are now seeing the light. Your question, "where is the 'there'" really goes to the crux of any political election. Where is it that voters want to go? Where is it that they want their leaders to lead them to? Do they wish to go move away from present conditions (change/progress) or stay right where they are (status quo). Leaders either lead with exemplary leadership, fail to lead, lead with no direction, lead in the wrong direction or lead to a destructive destination. Therefore the answer to your question ultimately determines the "where" ('there') that the leader and followers ultimately arrive. It seems to me that the greatest failure in community leadership lies in leaders and followers either not having a vision or not sharing a vision which determines the path to their (shared) communal goals. You ask the one question which I think is one of only three or four vital essential questions that voters should and likely do ask themselves before they decide to vote and for whom. Last edited on Dec 12th, 2006 05:12 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Pappy, you are now seeing the light. Your question, "where is the 'there'" really goes to the crux of any political election. Where is it that voters want to go? Where is it that they want their leaders to lead them to? Do they wish to go move away from present conditions (change/progress) or stay right where they are (status quo). "If you don't know where you're goin', how are you goin' to know when you get there?" |
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FatPappy Member
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Lao Tzu says, "To realize that you do not understand is a virtue; Not to realize that you do not understand is a defect." Pappy's feelin' very virtuous tonight. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: Lao Tzu says, "To realize that you do not understand is a virtue; Not to realize that you do not understand is a defect." Cracker's been feelin' very virtuous all day!
Ya'll are makin' my head spin! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Important meeting tomorrow 12/14/06 Thursday 7 PM at Community building. The Phase 2 of the park will be presented to council. We need supportfor this. Understand there maybe small but vocal oposition and that there has been one of those infamous mailings done this week. I hope the Park supports will load the Community Center. Tell everybody. We only have a few more weeks until the grant has to be done or we will sit around for another year with no matching funding. Jane is correct. We need folks to show up en masse, and sign up to speak favorably for the park. We want a vocal majority to out number and out speak the vocal minority. We want the positive speakers to wear out SMSandra's keyboard, and wear off her fingerprints with positive comments. Let the council know you support the park, want to see it completed, and (gasp) are delighted for your tax dollars to support it. Don't be shy......SPEAK OUT !!!!!!!!! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Sounds like it was a good meeting tonight. Looks like good thoughtful changes were made and that the grant will get submitted on time. The next meeting at Town Council is when we need to go again and let people know that the park is important to us so that we continue to move forward with phase 2. Sorry I missed it. Hopefully I will be more mobile ina couple of weeks. |
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FatPappy Member
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Too bad you had to sit that one out, Jane. Pappy cain't decide which of the two plans is better, so I think we should do both. (Dwayne, I'm kiddin'.) Y'all be sure to send in your suggestions about the latest park plans. Fer instance, I don't think we need a bark park -- unless it's a fenced-in area fer certain people who like to bark out misinformation about the park. |
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FatPappy Member
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ahem...cough, cough-municipal buildin'-cough, cough... Did somebody mention a municipal buildin'? Pappy thinks we need to get our municipal buildin' back on the burner. What do y'all think? We got a lot goin' on with ball fields an' phase 2 I know, but I'd hate to see it die. We need to be lookin' to the future. Pappy done heered the violent crime rate is on the rise these days. I sure do hate the Sheriff's Substation idee couldn't get resolved. Pappy also saw the word library mentioned a lot in parks and recreation discussions. I wanted to go look that word up but it's too far to a liberry. |
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summerfieldrd Banned
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FatPappy wrote: Pappy done heered the violent crime rate is on the rise these days. I sure do hate the Sheriff's Substation idee couldn't get resolved. I would like to see a Sheriff Substation, too! Right after we GET SOME WATER - the most basic element of human existence! |
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FatPappy Member
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summerfieldrd wrote:I would like to see a Sheriff Substation, too! Right after we GET SOME WATER - the most basic element of human existence! Sounds good to me! Pappy sure don't want nobody to have a drinkin' problem. So, that's one water, with a municipal buildin' on the side. There was quite some opposition to town water at one time. There was several options to ponder. It ain't been brought up in a while. Pappy ain't sure what the deal is, but it seems like somethin' worth serious consideration. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: There was quite some opposition to town water at one time. There was several options to ponder. It ain't been brought up in a while. Pappy ain't sure what the deal is, but it seems like somethin' worth serious consideration. You might consider that Stokesdale does have a municipal water system, which also should be noted does not require or mandate connections for new development and subdivisions. It is well worth noting that less than 300 families have opted to connect to this water system at the present time and the town is being forced to flush the system on a regular basis (to maintain minimum standards of water quality) due to the overall low volume usage , while wasting tens of thousands of gallons of water in the flushing process (with the costs passed along to the connected consumers). |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:FatPappy wrote:There was quite some opposition to town water at one time. There was several options to ponder. It ain't been brought up in a while. Pappy ain't sure what the deal is, but it seems like somethin' worth serious consideration. Jim... Stokesdale's water system was built after the town was one of a very few awarded a grant of $3M. The town pursued this grant because contaminated wells were found in the town core, so the system was built to address those specific needs, with the intent of expanding it as possible. Current leaders have continually researched grants, low-interest loans and the like, but they are not available as they were in the past. While it is true that current residents are not required to tap onto the system, new developments built within a certain distance of the existing lines ARE required to connect to it. In addition, water lines within any new development are required to meet specifications of the town water system so that at some point in the future, when water may be available to that development, the infrastructure would be in place so that it could be easily connected. The required flushing is to control the amount of chlorine in the water. Officials believe that with a few more customers (which should be added with some of the new neighborhoods being developed at this time) flushing will no longer be necessary in the near future. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Vicki White-Lawrence wrote:
In addition, water lines within any new development are required to meet specifications of the town water system so that at some point in the future, when water may be available to that development, the infrastructure would be in place so that it could be easily connected. Vicki, I was aware of and agree with the comments you have posted. Your comments, with which I concur, reflect and reiterate especially that the Stokesdale water system was subsidized by tax funds from outside our town government. Without that outside funding, there would be no Stokesdale municipal water system today. If Stokesdale voters had been given a choice prior to the grant funding which would have required taxation of all to provide water to some, the measure not only would have failed, but the only support would have come from those few families directly affected by groundwater contamination. I think it can be logically argued, that by state government funding providing the municipal water system option, the original groundwater polluters were in essence let off the hook in cleaning up the mess of their own making. No doubt saving those polluters millions of dollars. With respect to your comment: new developments built within a certain distance of the existing lines ARE required to connect to it, it should be pointed out that most of the existing lines are no where near or close to the major new developments which are being built. I dare say that 75% to 90% of the new homes and development built within the time frame since the Stokesdale water system first started operations, lie a mile or more away from the closest existing water lines. I also believe that had it not been for the ground water contamination in the Stokesdale core area (downtown) as well as in a subdivision almost immediately adjacent to the old Burlington Industries facility and Culp, Inc., there would have been no strong impetus for installation of a town water system. And absent the public health concern for what was fairly widespread groundwater contamination at that time, there be no Stokesdale municipal water system today. Finally, other than the less than 300 families who have opted to connect to the Stokesdale water system, most folks out here are quite happy with their own water wells and have little or no interest in connecting or being forced to connect to the town system. And based on the feedback from listening to others in Stokesdale, I rather think that a majority of members of both groups (the well connected and the majority of residents using well water) would not give the Town of Stokedale very high marks in their administration and operation of the town system. Last edited on Dec 28th, 2006 12:47 am by Jim Flynt |
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Waytago Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Finally, other than the less than 300 families who have opted to connect to the Stokesdale water system, most folks out here are quite happy with their own water wells and have little or no interest in connecting or being forced to connect to the town system. Amen |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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I've been at Stokesdale Town Council meetings where people who live in developments served by AquaNC have expressed the opinion that, if they were given the option, they would opt to go with the town system rather than continue with Aqua because they've not been happy with what is provided to them. There have also been others who have come to meetings and asked when water might be available to their area. In fact, Council is using these requests as they determine where the system should be expanded next. As far as "not giving the town .... high marks...." for administering and operating the system, upon what is this based? I've not been aware of any ongoing problems. People are not coming to meetings and complaining about poor service. The biggest complaint I've heard has been in how long it is taking to expand it..... And there have been people who were afraid their wells would go dry, and they wanted to connect to the town system rather than dig another well. |
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FatPappy Member
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Like I said, there was some serious opposition to town water at one time. Except from those who didn't have any water. But that's their problem, right? Despite the problems with current systems, I don't see how lookin' to the future an' how to create an' maintain a adequate water supply fer its citizens shouldn't be a priority consideration for any town. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: Like I said, there was some serious opposition to town water at one time. Except from those who didn't have any water. But that's their problem, right? Despite the problems with current systems, I don't see how lookin' to the future an' how to create an' maintain a adequate water supply fer its citizens shouldn't be a priority consideration for any town. Pappy, doesn't it all boil down to a question of who is going to pay for a municipal water system? Whether in Summerfield or anywhere else? Will the cost be borne only by those users who elect to connect or by taxation of the general population (including those not wishing to connect to a municipal system)? And if a majority of citizens (voters) don't want it, then what? Last edited on Dec 28th, 2006 02:22 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:Pappy, doesn't it all boil down to a question of who is going to pay for a municipal water system? Whether in Summerfield or anywhere else? Well, Mr Jim, you can't do no boilin' without water. But if'n you had some or knew where you could borry some, I'd say it boils down to whether water is seen as a need for a growin' community's future or as just another government handout to a few hapless individuals. I think it boils down to whether people think water is a community resource that needs a community solution or just a individual's pot luck. I think anything can be worked out. I also think there are never any perfect solutions. I think it all depends on whether there's enough desire to work together as a community or if we just want to enjoy the benefits of callin' it a community without acceptin' any responsibility. I don't know the answer, but I wouldn't dismiss the fact that water is gonna continue to be a problem as the area grows. Mebbe we should all keep our own herd o' raindrops an' brand 'em so we'll know who they belong to. Hee hee! |
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FatPappy Member
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FatPappy wrote:I think it all depends on whether there's enough desire to work together as a community or if we just want to enjoy the benefits of callin' it a community without acceptin' any responsibility. Actually, that statement is not entirely fair as a answer to the water question. Any question like this is really about what community responsibilty is seen to be an' how far do we go with it. I think there are good people on both sides o' that issue with equally good reasons to believe as they do. I didn't mean to imply if someone doesn't want community water then they are anti-social. I understand that there are serious logistical problems to consider an' however well-intentioned a solution might be, it could end up bein' a mess. Now I'm arguin' with myself. Must be somethin' in the water. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: Any question like this is really about what community responsibilty is seen to be an' how far do we go with it. I think there are good people on both sides o' that issue with equally good reasons to believe as they do. AMEN. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:AMEN. Hee hee! I'm not that Pappy. |
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summerfieldrd Banned
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Vicki White-Lawrence wrote: I've been at Stokesdale Town Council meetings where people who live in developments served by AquaNC have expressed the opinion that, if they were given the option, they would opt to go with the town system rather than continue with Aqua because they've not been happy with what is provided to them. Vicki, could you elaborate on this statement? What are the problems people are having with AquaNC? Are the citizens of OR expressing the same concerns as those of Stokesdale? Thanks |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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summerfieldrd wrote:Vicki White-Lawrence wrote:I've been at Stokesdale Town Council meetings where people who live in developments served by AquaNC have expressed the opinion that, if they were given the option, they would opt to go with the town system rather than continue with Aqua because they've not been happy with what is provided to them. I haven't heard anything recently, but for a long time I'd hear from folks who live along Haw River Road that they were not happy with the quality of their water.... There may have been other issues as well, but this is the one I remember. |
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macca Member
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I noticed that Summerfield Town Council meetings are moving from the first Tuesday to the second Tuesday of each month! Now those of us who had conflicts on the first Tuesday can plan to attend!!! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Yeah but those who moved their conflicts to the second Tuesday now may not be able to attend. Never a perfect time. |
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FatPappy Member
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Does anybody know what Mom was rantin' about with her political sign rant? It sounded a little more fanatical than usual to me, if that's possible. And it is. I also wouldn't be surprised if she might be plannin' to shoot Michael Brandt with a knock-out dart, implant a radio transponder device under his skin, then turn him loose unharmed so she can track his movements fer her on-goin' scientific research. I think she might be secretary of the Scientific Taxpayers of Upper Nabobbia this week. Where are you right now, Michael? How 'bout now? OK, how 'bout now? |
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macca Member
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macca wrote:FatPappy wrote: |
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FatPappy Member
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macca wrote:I noticed that Summerfield Town Council meetings are moving from the first Tuesday to the second Tuesday of each month! Now those of us who had conflicts on the first Tuesday can plan to attend!!! Yee Haw! Come on down, Macca. I guarantee you'll enjoy the show. It seemed purty obvious BS, DC an' Mom were graspin' at straws last night, lookin' fer any negative dirt clods they could think up to chuck at the park an' whatever else they didn't like. Good answers from Michael Brandt an' from the COG grant writin' lady, who at one point, answerin' Becky's obstinate denial of documented support for phase 2, said "I'm not making this up." Yee Haw! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: Does anybody know what Mom was rantin' about with her political sign rant? It sounded a little more fanatical than usual to me, if that's possible. And it is. Oo oo I know Pappy! She was upset because the town planner has a BJ Barnes sticker on her car. Is that crazy or what?????? She now wants the town to dictate what the town employees have on their personal cars. I say that when the town provides vehicles for the staff to drive they can then dictate what stickers are placed on the cars. I think she's just mad cause her man, Blanks didn't win. I reckon Robin's sticker probably won the election for ol' BJ. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: I also wouldn't be surprised if she might be plannin' to shoot Michael Brandt with a knock-out dart, implant a radio transponder device under his skin, then turn him loose unharmed so she can track his movements fer her on-goin' scientific research. I think she might be secretary of the Scientific Taxpayers of Upper Nabobbia this week. That cracks me up Pappy! That would be a good Verizon commercial... if they have verizon in Nabobbia that is.... Can you hear me now??? LOL |
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Hairbrush Member
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I am once again amazed that BS can be so nasty. She makes the town look like a bunch of angry, nasty trash talking people. I agree that what Summerfield Properties did seemed a little under handed with the deeding of the park land but did she have to dress down their lawyer in public. Wouldn't a "hey you guys didn't follow procedures so you are going to deed the land back to Summerfield Properties until we get this settled" served the same purpose. And what was that comment about if Mrs. Armfield's trust had 15 million dollars then BS guesses she could just dig the Armfield Development out of their hole. And I guess unless you are a like thinking person like BS then don't be discussing any town business with her. She made a comment before they voted to continue armfield that she didn't want any solicitations from contractors, developers, or builders (even though 2 builders live in armfield). I can certainly understand her saying I will not be taking any calls at home about this re-zoning. I have heard what I need and now I need to study the information, but instead she attacks the very people that live and work in our town. She also wrote down everyone that spoke company's name so I guess she can run back to the secretary of state's website to see if they are in good standing. Is this the kind of council person that people wanted and voted for? I hope they re-think for the next election. And we have just got to put a stop to Mom using public hearing time to spout off on her own agenda. In any other public hearing I have been to if the speaker doesn't stick to topic then they are called down and asked to sit down. All those people that were there at the council meeting for the first time and didn't stick it out for the park discussion now think the new amphitheatre is 1 million dollars. That needs to be stopped. Okay off my soapbox. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: It seemed purty obvious BS, DC an' Mom were graspin' at straws last night, lookin' fer any negative dirt clods they could think up to chuck at the park an' whatever else they didn't like. Yea, and Dana Luther made a good point when BS started spoutin' the approximate 1,000 per month maintenance costs that have been incurred so far. Dana made it clear that there were some capital costs (costs left over from the building of the park) carried over and that is why maintenance costs have been so high in recent months. This is the kind of thing that needs to be made public in order to combat the numbers that are being spouted by the concerned citizens. One of the dirt clods Strickland flung about was that we could use the 11.6 million dollar amphitheater that is being built by triad park instead of building one of our own. How convenient.
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macca Member
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Hairbrush wrote:And we have just got to put a stop to Mom using public hearing time to spout off on her own agenda. In any other public hearing I have been to if the speaker doesn't stick to topic then they are called down and asked to sit down. All those people that were there at the council meeting for the first time and didn't stick it out for the park discussion now think the new amphitheatre is 1 million dollars. That needs to be stopped. Wow! I've not been to a Summerfield Town Council meeting, but I've been to lots of other public meetings, and you're right.... The chair of the group would definitely point out to the person that they were out of order and tell them to be seated. If they did not, then there are other options available in a public meeting to assure that they comply with the rules... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Hairbrush wrote: She also wrote down everyone that spoke company's name so I guess she can run back to the secretary of state's website to see if they are in good standing. Is this the kind of council person that people wanted and voted for? I hope they re-think for the next election. Since when did it become the Summerfield Town Council's responsiblility to police the NCSOS (secretary of state) website? Isn't that why we have a SOS office??? Don't you think if the business is doing something wrong, the SOS will handle it? Isn't that what they are there for? Why not just cut costs by doing away with the SOS and let BS handle it??? Puhleese. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I don't really know where to post this, and it's not worthy of a new thread so I'll just ask it here. Jane or Mike or somebody please explain why folks are so upset about the Hoskins house (Yost and Little office). I personally think the house is lovely now (with the exception of the ugly newsstand on the front porch) and I have never really understood why folks are so upset about it. |
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dmauser Member
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I am one that brought up the Hoskins House. I think the rehab is wonderful and am sure that Yost and Little are good neighbors---however,,, you knew there was a however! When the rezoning was open to the public, I was pres. of Summerfield/Laughlin PTSA. I spoke about the concern of additional cars/driving etc right across the street from our children's play area. Now, here is what bothers me.. the then owner stood up and sayed he was redoing Hoskins for his family business and there would be 3-4 cars per day only! Just his family, himself, his wife and his son. Not bad I thought, a win-win solution, bring that wonderful house back to it's glory, have a small family business and no huge impact on our road or safety to our children. Once the rezoning was done, the owner decided to sell or rent (I don't know the particulars) to Yost and Little. Now we have traffic constantly, in and out of the area. So far safely, thank God. My main point is that rezoning has to been done on merit, not the present owners word, as once rezoning is done plans often change. Summerfield will continue to grow and change, I just want my elected officials to think about future options and what might happen, not what the owner hopes to do. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Unforutunately when something is rezoned everything allowed in that zoning can happen. A rezoning is nothing in the world but allowing some one to come in and develop the land and create a business within that zoning. The Town can only develop reasonable ordinances but can't dictate anything else if the business is operated with in the ordinance. I think the other issue to keep in mind is the Hoskin house was in extemely bad shape. I think Yost and Little is one of the lesser evils, the worst being the house had been bulldozed down. |
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dmauser Member
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I don't disagree with you at all, my concern is that the council make these decisions (and for the most part I think they do) keeping in mind that the rezoning gives people the opportunity to put anything within that zoning restrictions. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Thanks Debora (and Jane) for clearing that up for me. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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dmauser wrote: My main point is that rezoning has to been done on merit, not the present owners word, as once rezoning is done plans often change. Summerfield will continue to grow and change, I just want my elected officials to think about future options and what might happen, not what the owner hopes to do. Given recent events, perhaps Summerfield needs to place some new signs at strategic points along highways entering into the community with the following inscription: Welcome To Summerfield Home Of 'Bait And Switch' Zoning |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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The SOS website is so far behind and incorrect in many ways. The postings for the prior year will always be off or behind due to it not being updated instantly with changes. My company changed officers recently and my update was denied due to not informing the SOS in writing of the changes. After being under the microscope during a Town Council meeting this was brought to my attention. What difference does it make to BS I don't know. Trying to make people look less creditable maybe? It reminds me of the insecure girl in school who would surround herself with ugly girls to make herself look better. Food for thought. |
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FatPappy Member
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Speakin' o' BS an' less credible, I'd still like to know why Strickland, who was so opposed to the ballfield property on 220 that she would never let her kids play ball there, now is suddenly willing to let our kids play there if she can get a environmental study to say it's good enough. The interestin' thang here is timin'. Another property that come up fer discussion at the exact moment of her epiphanic embrace o' the 220 property was the Friddle property, coincidentally located very near the Strickland property. Could the timin' o' her inexplicable aboutface have anythang to do with personal reasons? Surely she wouldn't be tryin' to abuse her power would she? Mebbe we cain't see the forest fer the trees, but I reckon we'll be able to see what kind o' critters is swingin' through them trees if we keep watchin'. Hee hee! |
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macca Member
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How near the Strickland property? Could there be a case made for conflict of interest? |
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FatPappy Member
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macca wrote:How near the Strickland property? Could there be a case made for conflict of interest? It cain't be more'n a couple flaps of a buzzard's wing over the trees. Pappy's workin' on gettin' a exact figger to ponder. |
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Isabella Member 
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someone might look into who contributed to Ms. Strickland's campaign to help shed some light on the topic |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Isabella wrote: someone might look into who contributed to Ms. Strickland's campaign to help shed some light on the topic Sounds like you know something that you need to share with us. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Isabella wrote: someone might look into who contributed to Ms. Strickland's campaign to help shed some light on the topic I've heard that rumor too Isabella, but if you check out the Board of Election website, that info isn't listed on any of their candidate reports...... hmmmmmmmmmm |
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Lacka Member
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This sounds interesting, do tell. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Yes please do tell. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I don't think it's wise to say so on here. At least until the truth/proof comes forth.
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Jim Flynt Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
It sounded like Isabella had some kind of truth/proof about some political contributions to the Strickland campaign. Perhaps as we all have said, she can shed more light on what she knows? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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That would be great! |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy's a little behind these days. I understand the 220 property is no longer bein' considered. |
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macca Member
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So, what property IS being considered now? |
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Isabella Member
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as Cracker said...there doesn't seem to be any proof...but more than a few reliable sources have told me that there was a HEFTY contribution to the CC cause by the owner of the property...are in-kind donations required to be submitted? |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Pappy I think you are right about the 220 property. I think I remember that it was too expensive and had a huge gully on it that would reguire a lot of earth moving. Also several acres of it would eventually be in the new highway right of way and unusable. The Friddle property would be such a good start. The location is good, it is flat and would require little earth moving so I understand. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Why doesn't the Town of Summerfield put out RFP'S (Requests For Proposals) for park land purchases if they are serious about expanding their park acreage as well as getting the most bang for the buck. In other words, let it be known in the Summerfield community that there is "X" number of dollars available for park land purchase, and then see what the free market response might be. It seems to me that much larger acreages might well be protected when seller/bidders are competing to sell, rather than having only one 'vendor'/seller drive up the price artificially. 'Competition' in the free market arena is always more efficient and more cost effective. I'm willing to bet that suitable park land could be purchased by this method for probably half of what will be paid out and wasted by simply negotiating with only one seller. Why would a Town Council purchase park lands with taxpayer money at prices they would not pay for the same tracts as individual citizens? It just seems like there is room for a great deal of waste of taxpayer's money in the current process. Last edited on Jan 17th, 2007 10:59 am by Jim Flynt |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Summerfield hasn't sent out RFP's but have certainly had their quest for park land written about in the NWO on several occasions. In fact I am not sure that is not where some of the negotiations going on right now started. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:It just seems like there is room for a great deal of waste of taxpayer's money in the current process. So what is the current process? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Summerfield hasn't sent out RFP's but have certainly had their quest for park land written about in the NWO on several occasions. In fact I am not sure that is not where some of the negotiations going on right now started. RFP'S and news about parks in a local media are not the same thing. The US Postal Service, when seeking to relocate or build a new post office facility, as just one example, will publish a legal notice for RFP'S and then interested parties can bid as to what they would charge to lease back a specific space (predetermined by the US Postal Service) for a long term lease; thus insuring equality and quality in the purchase process. Most governments these days (municipal, state and federal government) purchase or guide their purchases based on RFP'S (certainly those over a specific dollar amount) rather than the whims of one or a small group of representatives of a government acting outside of a competition in the marketplace. It just seems to me that it all boils down to whether you would rather buy 20 acres of parkland or 50 acres of parkland for the same amount of money. Let's face reality here: most of the folks on the local town councils are in charge of and can (and do) spend sums of money measured in a vastness that they would never have the opportunity to spend in their individual personal budgets. And that lends itself to abuse through innocence or ignorance, whether denied or acknowledged. I just think we can do better and buy more by establishing a more formal arms length purchasing process in all of the Northwest communities, mostly especially on purchases in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I also think that most of the taxpaying voters out here would and will agree in the future when they see some of the wasteful exhorbitant prices which will be paid without a formal competitive system. Last edited on Jan 17th, 2007 12:27 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:The Friddle property would be such a good start. The location is good, it is flat and would require little earth moving so I understand. It's a good central location. I like it too, from what I know about it. Another property I heard about is somewhere outside the town limits on 158. Cheaper land, but it's a ways out yonder. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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One other thing that makes sense to me, is that the three towns of Oak Ridge, Summerield and Stokesdale should also at least sit down and have discussions about park needs for the larger Northwest community and whether these needs might best be met through a consortium of the three towns rather than each one going it alone. Let's face it, while any specific park will be within the boundary of one town's limits, users might well come from outside those boundaries. And in fact, citizens of one of the Northwest communities might well be closer to a park in a neighboring community than one in their own. There are just far greater efficiencies created by economies of scale. Economies of scale which would be realistic with a three town consortium which would not be realized by any one town acting alone. The same thought applies to a need for at least some regional planning and zoning considerations for land uses in the three Northwest communities, as the planning and zoning decisions in one town, most certainly can and do have impacts on the other communities. It is well past time for these types of discussions to begin. Last edited on Jan 17th, 2007 12:35 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: Jim Flynt wrote: As an outsider, it would appear to me that there is no formal process. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Summerfield hasn't sent out RFP's but have certainly had their quest for park land written about in the NWO on several occasions. In fact I am not sure that is not where some of the negotiations going on right now started. The other problem with this line of thinking, is that most readers (myself included) would read the articles as written and believe that a deal has been made or is nearly made. And that the only considerations given were to two property owners. That is why I think that a formal RFP which was not only announced through the 'free media' but which also was legally posted and perhaps announced in a mailing to either all Summerfield citizens but certainly all Summerfield citizens who's tax records would show ownership of some minimum number of acres suitable for a park would be notified. If the larger landowners in the community believe a park land purchase has already been made or that only one or two tracts are being given consideration, then there is no incentive for those other land owners to contact the Town nor to offer their land privately for sale. In 'politics' perceptions become reality, and I would all but guarantee that among most voters in Summerfield, the perception would be that a free and transparent process over such a large expenditure of taxpayer money has not been followed. So when the CC's or some other disenfranchised group of the electorate gains more ground and power in a future town election, no one should be shocked and surprised. This is an issue just waiting to find the right voices of dissent. Last edited on Jan 17th, 2007 12:47 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:As an outsider, it would appear to me that there is no formal process. As a non-doctor, it sometimes appears a doctor's process is simply lookin' a feller for 3 minutes an' leavin', but I've always suspected there's more to it than that. There must be more goin' on with the land process than just sittin' around waitin'. |
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summerfieldrd Banned
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One thing I was wondering: If Armfield is going to give us their 'ballfield property' and we can also get (lease) the G'boro property (adjoining 50), why are we spending money on enviornmental studies, etc., when this property over here may pan out to be all we need? I would imagine the 20 or so acres from Armfield, plus the possible 50 from G'boro should fill the void. Am I missing something? Last edited on Jan 17th, 2007 01:02 pm by summerfieldrd |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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All large tracks of property in the area were looked at from the start. Several hours were spent looking, walking, planning, and the end result was about 9 properties were considered. Then contact was made and the elimination process started. Yes people Summerfield did their homework before this process was started. The piece of property on 158 was not considered at the time because we did not look out side of the Town limits. This is a much more desirable piece for Baseball Fields. Very flat and has very good access. Jim has a good point. It would be nice to have a facility between all the Northwest Communities and this would make for one great league. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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summerfieldrd wrote: One thing I was wondering: If Armfield is going to give us their 'ballfield property' and we can also get (lease) the G'boro property (adjoining 50), why are we spending money on enviornmental studies, etc., when this property over here may pan out to be all we need? I would imagine the 20 or so acres from Armfield, plus the possible 50 from G'boro should fill the void. Am I missing something? I think what Jim Brady said at one of the council meetings was that the Armfield land (20 acre) parcel was not good for baseball fields (too wet maybe? Perhaps Baseball Buddy or Jane have more details on that) . It would be good for soccer fields though. I would assume the same would be true for the connecting Greensboro property. The original 90 acres promised would have been good for nothing but open space. Horrific topography and all of that. |
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Hairbrush Member
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The armfield property is not good for baseball but we would get some soccer fields. The other problem was that it can't have lights so would not be useable for practices and such after dark. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Lights are needed in this day and time for any organized outdoor activity. With the amount of people interested in some sort of structured activities for their selves and their children there is not enough daylight to do it. Fields without light are only useful on weekends or Summertime when daylight savings time is in effect. These proposed fields fro Armfield will see limited use without lighting. The lay of the land will only be useful for soccer. |
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summerfieldrd Banned
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OKay, I see. Thanks for the enlightenment, Hairbrush, Cracker and Baseball Buddy. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Lights are needed in this day and time for any organized outdoor activity. With the amount of people interested in some sort of structured activities for their selves and their children there is not enough daylight to do it. Fields without light are only useful on weekends or Summertime when daylight savings time is in effect. These proposed fields fro Armfield will see limited use without lighting. The lay of the land will only be useful for soccer. Probably one of the most if not the most used parks in all of Guilford County is the Battleground (Guilford Courthouse National Park) an adjacent Tannenbaum Park. The number of visitors and users on a daily basis and annual basis is staggering compared to other parks in the Triad. Yet they don't have one single baseball field, one single soccer field or any lighted areas. They don't have an outside amphitheater either. Yet people come in droves and come back again and again to simply enjoy nature, and open space, and picnics and bike rides and walking and Sunday concerts in the park. There are dozens of other such similar parks in this area and around the region and state which share the same common elements and the same public participation success. Why all of this singular focus on limited one or two use parks which only cater to the needs of a very small minority while requiring funding by the majority? Why not consider the funding of these singular use parks for limited uses such as baseball or soccer on a user tax or user fee basis rather than impose the costs on unwilling senior citizens, fixed income and lower income homeowners and disinteresred citizens who's needs are not served by their creation and ongoing maintenance costs? Let's face it, the (growing) demand or need for new recreational outlets and parks is being driven by the unbridled demand which is in turn being created by the unchecked explosive development patterns which the local governments are encouraging and permitting. Shouldn't these large new infrastructural costs associated with this new demand for parks and recreation (and other new services for that matter) be borne by the very same people creating this new demand: real estate developers and/or the new homeowners coming into the community? What I just don't understand is that none of the local communities (and many of the local citizens), just don't get that the infrastructure costs for this new sub-urban sprawl to the local communities is always and historically going to be far greater than any benefits financial gained from new development. (There are many well recognized studies (by economic and planning organizations) that have concluded the same and their research validates this position). Last edited on Jan 17th, 2007 05:55 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Hairbrush Member
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Jim, doesn't that park attach to the country park which then attaches to the JayCee Park. I use the country park almost every day but as a high school student (too many years to think about ) we were always at the JayCee Park during baseball season and they do have lights on that park. I don't know when all these parks were built or how they were built (grants, taxes, bonds) but I think Greensboro has done a good job of joining these parks together. I am not saying that the town and town council shouldn't be looking for multi-use for these parks. I think the problem is cost of land and space. Maybe if the whole northwest area decided on a park then we could have more buying power for more land. Even Oak Ridge is having difficulty incorporating everything they want in their park land. I know that when this town first started (correct me if I am wrong Scuba Jane) that there was much talk about the town buying land to hold. At the time there was too much opposition to it. The conservation council had meetings with other towns and organizations that were very pro holding land. It was amazing what a town can do if it puts conserving land as a priority and writes it into the budget. Unfortunately, I think at the time too many people in Summerfield were worried about maintenance cost and liability (not that much has changed). I am sure back in the day when central park was started there were the same concerns. The people involved in the huge project just decided to go ahead and do it. I would love to have a big park in Summerfield and I am willing to pay for with my taxes, because one day (as my husband who was born in Boston and then grew up in Dallas says) the land will be gone. The land is going fast and it isn't getting any cheaper. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Hairbrush wrote:
The land is going fast and it isn't getting any cheaper. Hairbrush, one of the major public ways to protect land instead of purchasing it, is through innovative tools such as transfer of development rights and conservation easements. This allows the protection of far greater amounts of land through the use of leveraging of funds. Bill Gates has espoused and pioneered the wise use of leveraging of grant and seed monies to encourage public/private consortia for a wide range of social and philanthropic benefits. One of the most recent Nobel Prize winners won based on their concept of using microgrants to transform the lives on an entire nation. So it can be done and is being done. So my question is: Wy aren't the three Northwest communities exploring and using development rights purchases/transfers and conservation easements to protect the very open spaces which are the hallmark of our communities and the magnets which are unfortunately drawing all of this new sprawled development? You are certainly correct that open, wooded and farmland in the Northwest is not getting cheaper while it is fast becoming scarce. It really is a matter of now or never if we are to preserve and or protect our greatest community asset. Last edited on Jan 17th, 2007 07:24 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Hairbrush wrote: I am sure back in the day when central park was started there were the same concerns. The people involved in the huge project just decided to go ahead and do it. HISTORY OF CENTRAL PARK Central Park was designed by Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux in 1858. They envisioned the park as a place where people of all social and ethnic backgrounds could have fun and do their activities . The place was a treeless, rocky one and stagnant swampland. However Olmstead and Vaux transformed it into a urban oasis. During the 19th century approximately 60000 people were living in New York City. In the 1830's a tremendous number of immigrants came in to the city increasing the number of people to 30000 by 1840 and in 1850 it increased to 500,000. Many people were looking for a place to relax and escape the press of bodies and the din of the city. In 1857 the city commissioners sponsored a public competition to design the central park . The "Greensward Plan" by Frederick Law Olmsted, who became the superintendent of the park, and Calvert Vaux (partner of Andrew Jackson Downing). The plan exhibited both sweeping meadows and lakes of the pastoral landscape and the rocky irregularity of the land. Olmsted knew about the conditions of the terrain and based his design because of this, for example that the southern part was mostly a rolling section could be the tranquil, serene section. The rocky and wooded western and northern inspired him too. The city commissioners paid more than $5 million for the undeveloped land from 59th street to 106th street, between Fifth and Eighth avenues. Central Park soil was inadequate to sustain the trees and shrubs that the plan included so 500,000 cubic feet of top soil was carted in from New Jersey. The land was manually dug up and huge boulders blasted out. All materials were carried in and out on horse-drawn carts. By 1873 more than 10 million cartloads of material had been hauled through the park. This material included more than 4 million trees, shrubs, and plants representing more than 1,400 species. The thirty-six bridges and archways that are in Central Park were built and four man-made water bodies, fed from the city's water supply, were created. It took twenty years after the approval of the Greensward Plan for Central Park to be completed. Olmsted and Vaux officially resigned many times mostly because of political battles. A good part of the problems stemmed from Tammany Hall, the democrat machine that dominated New York politics from 1850 until 1933. In 1877 Olmsted finally decided to leave the park, however Vaux stayed until his death in 1895. Later on more pressure was on the Park because of the public demand for recreational space and the advent of automobiles. For decades after the death of Vaux there were only intermittent efforts to improve the lawns, replace dead trees and shrubs, or to end the littering and vandalism. In 1934 Robert Moses was chose to continue the plan. He had built Long Island's first parkways and created Jones Beach. He cleaned up Central Park and other New York parks. Many flowers bloomed where there had been bare dirt, the park wall was sandblasted to its original dark cream color. Under Moses, Central Park gained 19 play grounds, 12 ball fields, hand ball courts and the Wollman Rink. Moses also raised money from wealthy people to create popular sites as the Hans Christian Andersen and Alice in Wonderland sculptures, the Chess and Checkers House, and the Carousel. A renovated Central Park Zoo and Tavern . Once again in the 1960's it was a period of decline for Central Park because of peace rallies, protest marches, summer concerts and New Year's Eve. However there were some positive changes because "The Public Theatre's Shakespeare in the Park " debuted. And in 1964 Central Park was declared a National Historic Landmark and in 1974 it was named a New York City Landmark. The park today has more than 26,000 trees, 58 miles of scenic pathways and nearly 9,000 benches on 843 acres. More than 25 million people visit Central Park from all over the world. SOURCE: http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC041147/history.html NOTE: A secondary and complimentary weblink which parallels the earlier link can be found here: http://www.centralpark.com/pages/history.html Last edited on Jan 17th, 2007 07:42 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Hairbrush Member
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Jim, I would love to see Summerfield get land through easements and transfer of development rights, but it takes two for that to happen, a town or government entity that is ready to jump on it and a land owner that is ready to transfer land without getting real money for it. I know that you could get a tax break and then not have to pay property taxes on it. But with development the way it is in this part of the county it would be hard to pass up the developers price, especially if the farm land, for example, could be re-zoned. I think that is the challenge of the town and town council. First, there needs to be a process in place to take land and have it deeded to say the town of Summerfield. And second it takes a lot of leg work to find these land owners to donate the land. It would seem that a lot of people would rather have the market price for their land. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Hairbrush wrote: (# 1) Jim, I would love to see Summerfield get land through easements and transfer of development rights, but it takes two for that to happen, a town or government entity that is ready to jump on it and a land owner that is ready to transfer land without getting real money for it. ( # 2) I know that you could get a tax break and then not have to pay property taxes on it. ( # 3) But with development the way it is in this part of the county it would be hard to pass up the developers price, especially if the farm land, for example, could be re-zoned. It would seem that a lot of people would rather have the market price for their land. Hairbrush by no means was I suggesting nor expecting 'gifts' of property from land owners, although that does happen albeit on a very rare basis. What I was suggesting was the purchase of the "development rights" to a parcel of land with the owner retaining ownership for farming, timber, truck farming and/or his own family's residence. Transfers of development rights where in the landowner is compensated for selling his present and any future right to develop his property, while retaining actual ownership for his and his family's limited private use. As an example, let's say that a parcel of property today is worth 'X' based on a pure farm value but that nearby raw land property being sold for development is worth 'Y'. The Town or some land conservancy set up to protect land in it's natural state, would then purchase or acquire the development rights to the parcel at or about the difference between Value 'Y' minus Value 'X', or the value assigned specifically to the increase in value from a right or opportunity to develop. These transfers are generally valued and paid in cash or a cash equivalent to the landowner based on valuation of the real estate development right. There are myriads of techniques and methods to accomplish this, and it has been said that there are thousands of ways to purchase land, with cash being only one of them. Some of these transactions can become quite complex and most certainly result from creative approaches to land preservation and purchase. Additionally, there are a great deal of sources of public and private grant and/or low interest funds available to assist in making these transactions viable and workable. Development rights and conservation/purchases are by no means limited to just a town government or municipality, but might well involve several parties including 3rd party or even multiple parties where real estate exchanges might provide cash for the original landowner, a tax write off for a 3rd party willing to trade cash for assignable tax benefits, and a municipality or foundation desirous of protecting and preserving public lands for parks and/or environmentally sensitive lands or land of historic significance. The possibilities are endless. Using examples again, the Piedmont Land Conservancy (http://www.piedmontland.org), the Haw River Assembly (http://www.hawriver.org), The Nature Conservancy (http://www.nature.org), and The Trust For Public Land (http://www.tpl.org) are just a few of the entities which are engaged in using these techniques to purchase, protect and preserve public and environmentally sensitive lands through a myriad of techniques including conservation easements and development rights transfers. There are dozens of others far too numerous to mention, and many of these would be willing I believe to assist a local group in the purchase of public land for protection and preservation of land for park purposes or to be kept in a natural state. These transactions are not always easy or simple to accomplish, but they are used all over the country on a regular basis with great success for those willing to think outside of the box and act progressively and responsibily to protect our greatest natural resources. I would also add, that the Piedmont Land Conservancy has the following event coming up next week, which might be of some interest and a starting point for understanding the wonderful opportunities available in land conservancy. I believe that PLC in explaining the basics of what they do and how they do it, would be instructive in helping you to see a potential path for exploring and expanding on similar opportunities we might have here in the three Northwest communities: Thursday, January 25 – PLC Volunteer Workshop, Winston-Salem (5:00-6:30 pm). If you are interested in volunteering for PLC and would like to learn about how you can help, please join us as PLC staff from Education & Outreach and Land Protection present an overview of PLC and our volunteer opportunities. Please call the PLC office at 336-691-0088 for more information and to RSVP. Last edited on Jan 17th, 2007 10:50 pm by Jim Flynt |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Well another Summerfield employee bites the dust. We now have less than 2 employees trying to run a town of over 8,000 people. That is disgraceful. We have no planning department and seem to have no plans to replace the 2 employees. The options are all more expensive than what we had. It seems Michael along with being Town Manager is also planner. How is it that the citizens of this Town have allowed a handful of people to dismantle our Town and there is no out cry? We can't just say oh well we won't have a planning department. Somebody has to do it and that somebody should care, not be a hired company that charges at least twice as much as having out own employees. Come on council lets don't let us slip back to where we were before we incorporated. Lets don't go back to the time when outsiders were administering our ordinances and not looking after our best interests. After all if we lose the less than two employees we have, who will be there to fulfill the volume of Freedom of Information act requests that the Concerned Citzens are papering the Town with? |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Can the town limit the number of request to 1 per month per person or their affiliated party on the FOIA ? Just some food thought. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:Probably one of the most if not the most used parks in all of Guilford County is the Battleground (Guilford Courthouse National Park) an adjacent Tannenbaum Park. The number of visitors and users on a daily basis and annual basis is staggering compared to other parks in the Triad. Yet they don't have one single baseball field, one single soccer field or any lighted areas. They don't have an outside amphitheater either. Yet people come in droves and come back again and again to simply enjoy nature, and open space, and picnics and bike rides and walking and Sunday concerts in the park. All that enjoyin' nature and open space, and picnics and bike rides and walking and Sunday concerts (at an amphitheater, p'haps?) sounds like thangs people really enjoy. I reckon it must just be a lucky coincidence that accommodations fer all them kinds o' thangs ended up in the plans fer Summerfield's Community park. It's a shame about them ballfields too. I wish the dang young'uns would just stay in their rooms an' play video games so the heathen minority wouldn't feel the need to ram ballfields down the he'pless majority's throat. Poor ol' majority, they never stood a chance with all the opportunities fer public input workin' ag'in 'em. |
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FatPappy Member
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Excellent coverage in the NWO of the Number One Threat to Town Government...a bumper sticker with his name on it. Mom's gonna hafta punish us fer usin' her freedom o' speech amendment without permission. |
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Waytago Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Can the town limit the number of request to 1 per month per person or their affiliated party on the FOIA ? Just some food thought. Better yet, can some folks be banned from making requests due to abuse of the system? Dessert for thought. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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The dessert sounds better than the meal!!! Thanks Waytago |
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Isabella Member
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I thought the planner was staying? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Isabella wrote: I thought the planner was staying? The town council voted unanimously to not allow the planner to rescind her resignation after discussions in closed session. Reasons unknown. (edited for correction per CJ's comments below) Last edited on Jan 21st, 2007 05:52 pm by Steve Adkins |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Isabella wrote:I thought the planner was staying? Actually, they voted on it in open session after (supposedly) discussing it in closed session. They still did not give reasons and Robin was shocked to say the least. Now Michael Brandt is gonna have to be the planning department until they figure out what to do. Michael's got enough work to do as town administrator. I think they are in for a big mess..... I'm really gonna miss Robin! |
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Isabella Member
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So no one knows? I didn't know Robin well, but she helped me understand how to start my home business and she was very helpful and cheerful. I found her to be very professional and certainly a positive addition to the town. Its a shame that she is one more casualty of this battle. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Isabella wrote: So no one knows? The town councilmen/women and Mayor plus the Town Manager would know, but at this point, no one's talking. Of course, remember that old saying: Two can keep a secret if one is dead. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Isabella wrote:So no one knows? It's my understanding that since the discussion took place in closed session, NONE of the above mentioned folks are ALLOWED to tell. Right? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
The distinction is more appropriately between the words (not) ALLOWED and (not) SUPPOSED* to tell. In any event, the adage of only keeping secrets if only one remains is still a truism. Things hidden in the dark always have a way of finding light. * NOTE: What do they arrest you for if you breach the rule or confidence? |
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FatPappy Member
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"One flew east. One flew west. One flew over the cuckoo's nest..." |
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S. Smith Moderator
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The issue with Robin Smith was a personnel issue. My understanding is that by law, those discussions are permitted to be held in closed session. |
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summerfieldrd Banned
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S. Smith wrote: The issue with Robin Smith was a personnel issue. My understanding is that by law, those discussions are permitted to be held in closed session. Personnel or interpersonal? |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy saw Steve's name in two papers about the meetin' tonight! I wish I could be there. Good luck to all. |
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macca Member
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I saw it in the "Guilford Record" section of the N&R.... What other paper was it in??? |
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macca Member
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Oh! I just saw it on the on-line version of the NW Observer! |
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FatPappy Member
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macca wrote:I saw it in the "Guilford Record" section of the N&R.... What other paper was it in??? Around here the Guilford Record is the "other" paper. Hee hee! |
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macca Member
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FatPappy wrote:macca wrote: I'll remember that, Pappy!!! But I thought you said you saw it in 2 papers, so I was trying to figure what what the other one was.... Did you mean the online NW Observer?? |
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FatPappy Member
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Yes'm, Pappy saw it in both online versions of the NWO and the Guilford Wreckerd, I mean Record. I like to look at the Record first, then check the NWO to see if maybe the Record got it right for once. |
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summerfieldrd Banned
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Does anyone know a time and a place? |
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S. Smith Moderator
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summerfieldrd wrote: Does anyone know a time and a place? Friends for Summerfield will meet the first and third Tuesdays (edited by SA) of each month from 7 to 9 p.m. at the home of Steve and Debbie Adkins, 7591 Cassidy Way in Summerfield. For more info, e-mail sba328@triad.rr.com or call 392-9991. The next meeting will be Feb. 6. (Editorial Comment - What has this world come to??? Now the moderators are editing EACH OTHER !!!!) Last edited on Jan 27th, 2007 02:39 pm by |
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macca Member
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S. Smith wrote:summerfieldrd wrote:Does anyone know a time and a place? Feb. 6 is a Tuesday. ??? |
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S. Smith Moderator
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macca wrote: S. Smith wrote: Oops! Thanks for keeping me in line, macca. Actually, I was just seeing if you were on your toes out there.Okay, make that Feb. 1. Steve has started a new thread to discuss this group. |
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Skiddles Member
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Sandra I believe you were correct the first time. Friends for Summerfield will be meeting on Tuesday evenings. The next meetings are scheduled for Feb. 6th & 20th |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: summerfieldrd wrote:Does anyone know a time and a place? Just couldn't resist Sandra !! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Thanks to everybody for keeping me in line. Obviously I can't even read my own notes! Moderate me as needed. Now, as Steve says, blog on..... |
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Jim Flynt Member
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S. Smith wrote: Thanks to everybody for keeping me in line. Obviously I can't even read my own notes! Moderate me as needed. Now, as Steve says, blog on..... Oh No..........Not another blonde moment we hope? |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Jim Flynt wrote: S. Smith wrote:Thanks to everybody for keeping me in line. Obviously I can't even read my own notes! Moderate me as needed. Now, as Steve says, blog on..... Okay, Jim, you got me there. But don't the forum rules say something about "flame ideas, not hair colors"? Now, blog on (ahem) about the town council. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Why has the Town council moved the closed session from last thing at the meeting? They went into closed session last night with several more items on the agenda and it was 10:45. Since closed sessions have a habit of going on for long periods of time the majority that had stayed were leaving as I left. I would like to hear if the mayor or council members have anything to say but not after waiting for a closed session to end. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I agree Jane. I think Closed Sessions should be held at the END of the meeting!!! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Cracker Jax wrote:
I'd have to say that, unless what they talk about will have a bearing on some other discussion at that meeting, most people would appreciate the closed sessions being held at the end. (Except, of course, those of us who will stay until the bitter end. For us, it doesn't matter when they're held! )Last edited on Feb 14th, 2007 02:21 pm by S. Smith |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy wrote this up last week in advance in case I got busy. I figgered it would still be fresh enough to use. The Mom Report for (insert current date here): Mom showed up late, made a lot o' noise gettin' settled, ranted about how the mayor was doin' somethin' illegal, got her facts wrong, kept repeatin' nonsense, wouldn't sit down or shut up, got called down by the Mayor and/or town attorney, an' made ever'body's blood pressure go up fer no good reason. I think I'll save that an' use it next month, too. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Too Funny Pappy!!! Yea... she showed herself for sure last night. I had to look at my agenda again to make sure it wasn't a Municipal Building or a Sherrif's substation that we were discussing since she was so irate. Mark couldn't shut her up and my TC Hero (Bill Hill) wasn't there to crack the whip (I missed you Bill!!!)... So what can be done about her??? Can't they get a cop or something to come and drag her away from the podium???? What did she mean when she was yelling that the council didn't allow the citizens to speak on issues??? There were 2 public hearings on that one topic for goodness sakes! Oh yea... and I LOVED the Illinois comment Jay! You were definitely my hero last night since Bill Hill wasn't there! |
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Hairbrush Member
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It would be sad if the town of summerfield had to resort to having the sheriff there. At other public hearings in other counties, if the speaker doesn't stick to the council rules then they are escorted from the building. They must also stick to topic or they lose their right to speak. I certainly didn't see why Mom should have more time then anyone else. The armfield owner that spoke first in favor of the development was as nice as she could be when she was informed her time was up. She said a nice thank you and sat down. The council didn't even have to open the discussion up for public hearing again. Of course, maybe if you come on time and listen to what is being said you might have a better idea of what needs to be said. Just a thought. |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Who knows what the ol' dahlin' was thinkin'. Showin' off fer that reporter feller, mebbe? |
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FatPappy Member
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Speakin' o' that reporter feller, did anybody else think his latest attempt missed the mark? He starts off with "Gail Dunhams' Freedom of Information Act requests ..." (visual: Mom dressed as George Patton stands in front of that giant Ameri-yes-we-can flag while the Stars an' Stripes Ferever plays in the background) ... anyway, the story, an' I do mean story, staggers on a little ways to say how Michael Brandt took time outta the council meetin' to address the issue. Seals didn't mention (or as he might word it, failed to mention) how Mayor Brown also took time outta the meetin' earlier to address Dunham's typical rude an' selfish assault on decency with several whacks o' the gavel. Anyway, Pappy's gotta go look fer the rest o' the story. It was so slanted, all them little letters slid off the page an' fell in a big mess on the floor. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Pappy I agree. I sort of read the article with disbelief. No mention of the fact that this Foia requests had been going on for years. That Mom probably has more records than the Town does by now. That her purpose is to tie up the Town in mindless busy work. I for one really resent my tax money going for this type of activity but nothing seems to deter her on her relentless search for what ever she is searching for. |
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FatPappy Member
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Mebbe she's lookin' fer a crime to support all her theories. She had a real good theory 'bout how the government was on the verge o' collapse because o' all the political signs on town property. Too bad all she had to work with was one B.J. Barnes bumper sticker on Robin's car. I'd like to say that's about as ridiculous as it gets, but unfortunately, I cain't be sure. Open yer eyes, Seals! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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You know I only take that paper for the sale flyers, but I did see that article you're talkin' about Pappy. You don't have to be Paul Harvey to figure out the rest of that story either.... The CC's got to Seals first, charmed him and now he's gonna have to learn the hard way about them....just like the rest of us did. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: Don't feel bad Ryan it happened to me too, I thought they were a good group of doogooders (is that a word?) in the beginning. I got fooled and boy was I wrong when it blew up in my face. Show caution when talking to or dealing with this group. Seek out their past supporters and you will find they are sorry or deny their supporting them at the present time. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy's hat's off to Sandra an' Patti fer this fine NWO issue. HAW! This one's a keeper! Jam packed with good infermation an' opinions. I gotta go read it ag'in. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Yea!! Patti and Sandra I just read one of the best NWO ever. Great article on Point of Order and it's proper use. This papers got BB smiling. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Agreed, Awesome Job Patti & Sandra !!! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Thanks for the kind words. I just want to go back and touch on the FOIA request article. I read Ryan Seals' account when it initially came out, and then went back and reread it after seeing your posts. As a fellow reporter, I have to admit that I didn't find his account as objectionable as you guys did. This being our forum and all, I obviously like it when you guys support something we've published. But in being a moderator, I have to try to be fair and equitable. His article didn't support the requests, but just said they finally got the attention Ms. Dunham felt they deserved (not he, Michael Brandt or the council). The matter did come up in a public meeting. Maybe it's unusual for one publication to support another one, and I'd like for you guys to feel free to openly disagree with me here and be more specific about what you felt was inaccurate or slanted in his article. Other than the amount of time these requests have been coming in to the town, which is longer than the 6 months I believe was cited, I just didn't really have a problem with what was published. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Sandra I realize I read the article Ryan wrote with slanted eyes but I thought the article insinuated some how that the government was trying to thwart a citizens request. What I think would have made the article more palatable would have been some history on why this item had to be discussed in an open session. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jane, I hafta agree that the article could have benefitted from some background. Mebbe my biggest objection was the perceived legitimacy that others not familiar with Dunham's outrageous behavior might read into it. Pappy'll try to keep a open mind, Seals. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I understand more now what you guys were talking about. I'm gathering maybe it was not so much what the article said as what it didn't. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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You got it, Sandra. Freedom of information requests are a legal and important right that we citizens have. It is the lack of background that this woman representing the Concerned Citzens continues to request hundreds of pages of information for what reason? We taxpayers are subsidizing these requests because 10 cents a copy does not cover the time and expense it takes to generate records that go back 11 years. Also 15 minutes of our once monthly council meeting was spent on the subject. The fact that this individual has no responsibility to us tax payers as she blighfully spends our money month after month after month. I think Ryan missed the boat by not investigating the abuses of the FOIA and/ or giving an explanation of why the Town Manager felt it necessary to spend the time in an open meeting explaning the situation. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Let's analize this. Freedom. Is it free? What does it cost? Who do we pay if it does cost something? Why does it cost something? Who is driving up that cost? Mrs Dunham? Information. FACTS. The Whole story. Not just the parts you want to edit. What is she looking for? For what reason or rhyme? Is there something in these records that are false or hidden to the Town of Summerfield? The great Mrs Dunham to our rescue? Act. An amendment, announcement, clause, code, commitment, decree, edict, enactment, judgement, law, measure, order, ordinance, resolution, statute, subpoena, summons, verdict, warrant, and/or writ. None of these are a right to abuse. Or are they? Food for thought. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy agrees. Since Dunham has shown a serious tendency to pass judgement (pass what?) on which council actions she has personally determined "will not pass legal muster", while she foregoes the encumberance o' remainin' within hollerin' distance o' the facts (quite a distance fer her), I'm surprised she even needed all that information in the first place. Why waste taxpayer dollars an' precious staff time providin' information that will likely get ignored an' left to die or else tortured an' forced to reach her pre-formed conclusions? Look at what she did with the Sellers report an' the amphitheater. Contrary to the readily available facts, she practically had Mark Brown personally chargin' over the hill with a chain saw to start cuttin' down acres o' trees fer her $4 million entertainment complex. Was she confused? I don't see how she could not know exactly what she was doin' when she made up them ridiculous an' insultin' lies. I don't know what else they could be called but willful lies. Tolerance fer diverse opinions is a good thang, but this has no more to do with that than a earthquake does to landscape architecture. Abuse of the system an' wastin' town resources fer personal gain should not be tolerated. She apparently is within her rights to do that, but I reckon we're within our freedom o' speech rights to denounce it! Seals, I'm sure you got sense enough to see what's goin' on. We sure would appreciate seein' some background on the Concerned Citizen's abuses from your paper. I'm afraid some people still think they're actually concerned about citizens. |
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macca Member
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FatPappy wrote:I'm afraid some people still think they're actually concerned about citizens. Pappy, they are...... the handful that think like they do -- right? |
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S. Smith Moderator
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The agenda for the March council meeting is incredible. Anybody who plans to come might want to just bring their sleeping bags, pillows and alarm clocks and just go on to work the next morning from there. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I understand there is talk to divide the meeting in to two meetings. I am hoping there will be lots of people to speak at the begining. |
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macca Member
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Where are y'all gonna put all the folks who show up tomorrow night? I hear there might not even be standin' room. Maybe they should just remove the chairs (and hide 'em -- I wouldn't want to have to duck one if it goes flyin' thru the air!) and have EVERYBODY stand.... Might make for a shorter meeting! |
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macca Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:I understand there is talk to divide the meeting in to two meetings. I am hoping there will be lots of people to speak at the begining. Is there a certain amount of time set aside at the beginning of the meeting for these speakers, or does this part of the meeting go on until all the speakers have finished? Do you sign up ahead of time if you want to speak? Can you speak on any topic? (Sorry to be so nosy; I've just never been to one of these....) |
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Cracker Jax Member
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macca, speakers from the floor sign up to speak when they go in the building and they each get 5 minutes to speak on whatever's on their minds. oops! forgot to answer the rest of your question. They have to speak on "non agenda" items and I don't know if a time limit for the entire speaker from the floor session has ever been imposed or not. Last edited on Mar 13th, 2007 12:48 am by Cracker Jax |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Check the Town web site in the morning to see if a decision is made on the order of the agenda. Hopefully it will be up then. My previous information was wrong. Last edited on Mar 13th, 2007 02:34 am by DOGGETTJA |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Summerfield Town Council tonight 6:30. Come and express your opinions on the Becky Strickland issue. How do you feel about her using her position as an elected member of the town council to write an unauthorized letter to the PartF board to try and stop them from awarding $500,000 to the Town in matching funds to finish phase 2 of the park. A grant request that was voted on and passed by a majority of the Council. |
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macca Member
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I'm going to try to make it. It sounds as though two of the Town Council members may be discussed, since two of them have been abusing power lately.... I'd like to be a witness to some fine examples of Freedom of Speech. |
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bama80 Member
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I can see the need for a man (or woman) of the law to be present to enforce the rules of the floor. For instance when people speak out of turn or go over their time limit. Mayor Brown better get the gavel ready. Im just guessing from previous TC occurrences. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Sounds like the Town Council meeting will be busier tonight than a pair of jumper cables at a Southern Baptist funeral. Perhaps Town Council should consider selling the rights to this continuously unfolding Summerfield soap opera to Hollywood to help pay for your new park. Ya'll have fun with your positive fact based responses. It should be a hum-dinger. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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As a postscript to my earlier post: Don't forget to go ugly early. |
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FatPappy Member
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BOO! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Another one of those fact based positive responses no doubt. You elevate DUPLICITY to a science as well as art form. |
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FatPappy Member
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"Boo" is more of an opinion than a fact. In this case, "boo" was used not in the sense of "booing somebody off the stage", but as a playful startling exclamation, since, apparently, I'm so scary. Anyway, what are your thoughts on Dwayne's hacking activities and possible violation of first amendment rights? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: Anyway, what are your thoughts on Dwayne's hacking activities and possible violation of first amendment rights? Why shucks Pappy, I would love to give you my short answer to the question, but at your suggestion I am now writing my memoirs. You're prominently mentioned in my Chapter entitled The Road To Hades in Summerfield Is Paved With Good Intentions. Besides, was there or is there a serious discussion going on under this thread? If so I completely missed it. Must have been that intellectual honesty search for the truth kinda thing which I surely haven't seen........... |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Just for the record: While I am sure it will be interesting, I will not be attending the Summerfield Town Council meeting tonight for the simple reason that I learned the lesson a long time ago not to wrestle with pigs, knowing that in the end, the pigs love it and you both take leave covered in mud. Last edited on Mar 13th, 2007 05:38 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Steve Adkins Member
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It was a good night at the Summerfield TC meeting tonight. Nobody got out of hand, all stayed respectful in their behavior. Folks took a firm stand in addressing the misbehaviors of Strickland & Crawford. Despite Strickland's general belligerant stance, she was visibly softer after hearing fellow TC members, plus the public she is supposed to represent, blister her in public. One good thing that came out of it immediately was her willingness to motion a large increase in volunteer appreciation funds, plus recommend a charter bus for the event. This was really great to see. Patti - great job letting it be known Mr Crawford is doing a break & enter job on the forum, public record, right in front of other TC members, in front of two newspapers, his bald head was blushing red. |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy was proud o' Mayor Brown an' the three councilmembers who spoke out so forcefully ag'in Strickland's excesses. Pappy's proud o' them Doggetts who spoke some pow'rful words. I especially liked Mr Doggett's observation that the total number o' people who voted fer Strickland was less than the number o' people who came out to show support at the park openin'. Patti Stokes spoke a pow'rful message about Dwayne's breakin' an' enterin' habit. At sev'ral points I thought the laser beams from her steely gaze was gonna ricochet off Crawford's skull an' hurt somebody, but I reckon her aim was true an' them beams hit home right betwixt his eyes without bouncin'. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Steve and Pappy, I just wanted to say Thank-You to both of you for your very professional update and report on last night's Summerfield Town Council meeting. I enjoyed reading the facts which you both reported without either of you lowering yourselves to the rudeness and bad attitudes which the other side has been using. You both showed great dignity which I am sure most Summerfieldians appreciate and it is nice to know that you're both seeing a better way of responding rather than reacting. Congratulations to all of you for your judicious choice of words and for your continuing support for Summerfield and all her citizens. Thanks again and ya'll all please have a wonderful day and enjoy this beautiful Spring weather that God has shared with us. |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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I just wanted to say that I arrived at the Summerfield TC meeting about 7:45 or so last night and was very impressed with the turnout. I know there were several issues that brought people out, but it was impressive to see so many people there. The public speaking portion of the meeting had ended by the time I got there (I had another meeting at 6:30 in Stokesdale, so just came over after it ended) but the business session was being conducted appropriately. I was able to catch up with some of my Summerfield friends and appreciated the opportunity to "check out" another TC meeting. Stokesdale's Town Hall is much smaller, although we make good use of the space we have. When we have a crowd that large it is because we have a specific issue to address. It was good to see people involved in the process of governing their town. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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After 24 hours of reflection, I feel really good about the way the meeting went last night. It was a show of unity, that the citizens of Summerfield are indeed ready to take their town back. Clear signs that public officials will be held accountable for their behavior, that those citizens who participate in the democratic system available, are not satisfied to sit back and suffer in silence. Nobody fell asleep during the sermon. Alicia Flowers had an excellent comment last night.........Summerfield is a gold mine. To those of us who have lived elsewhere, ie in large cities, in the north (or both), suffered the traffic, the cold weather, the anonymity of a large city, the outlandish taxes, the truly shady governments (come visit Detroit with me), I'll take Summerfield any time. It's all good |
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FatPappy Member
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Well said. |
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macca Member
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Hairbrush wrote:Here is an email that was forwarded to me. Seems that DC was calling people out. The only changes I made was to leave everyones name out. See what you think. It is a little long but worth reading. Crackah, I think this is the post you referred to.... Hairbrush posted it on Nov. 17, 2006. |
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macca Member
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Hairbrush wrote:
This one was posted Nov. 27.... |
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macca Member
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Note to administrators: I thought I was posting both of the above on MAAN. They might also fit on the "anonymity" forum.... Sorry! Feel free to move them.... Crackah had noted that folks new to the forum might be interested in them and I was trying to be helpful..... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I think they fit here ok Macca... He is on the council after all and wasn't it originally posted on this forum??? Just my opinion. Anyway, thanks for digging them up!!! |
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jimbee Member
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To Dwayne and Becky, I want to sincerely thank you both for your assistance with increasing support for the town, the park, and pointing out the importance of the citizens of Summerfield the need to be involved. In your attempt to do for Summerfield what Madeline Murray O'Hare did for Christianity you have succeeded. The rest of the town appreciates the black eye that you have given the group that claimed the title "concerned citizens" Dwayne your covert hacking operation I think really did the trick. While you two are at it, how about claiming to be Nazi, KKK members, I'd like to see them gone as well. With friends like these, who needs enemies! Jimbee |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Welcome to the forum Jimbee! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Here's what I know about the meeting last night. The Town has formed a litigation committee consisting of Mark Brown and Carolyn Colins. No idea what their goals would be but can certainly imagine. Voted to buy an ad and 1,000 maps from Nw Merchants to have and sell at Town Hall. Reclassified Carrie's job to Planning Tech and gave her a pay increase. I hear she is doing a super job. Thank you Carrie. The biggie I think was Michael has been authorized to negotiate first right of refusal on 3 properties for ball fields and then if he is successful they authorized money to be spent on obtaining drawings of thepropertys. George was officially hired for 18 hours a week. Yeah George!!1 There will be a special called meeting on next Tuesday night to discuss the web contract and a closed session for the litigation committee. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Thanks for the update Jane!!! Wonder what a litigation committee does? |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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What happened to the discussion on the non profits receiving grants from the town?From what I understand, Becky wanted to create a lot of forms, applications, need copies of incorporation papers, bylaws, all officers,directors, and committee members names, and follow up forms on performance. In the past when SRA has pursued monies from other organizations all they asked for was a copy of the 501c and a financial statement. This seems to be a lot of red tape (in my opinion) that a lot of organizations volunteers will not go through. When I spoke of this, people that are involved in SRA got very defensive and did not want their names out their to get smeared or posted in the paper being accused of wrong doing like mine was. Not only once but twice. They also said they did not want their businesses having anything to do with this because of being subject to investigations through the Secretary of States web site as other businesses have in the past by Mrs. Strickland. Looks as if we are now not only loosing volunteers but sponsors also because of the tactics of the Concerned Citizens. This has to stop and I mean now! John Wray spoke from the floor Tuesday night with a positive force that needs to bring Summerfield together. |
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BreBre Member 
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jimbee wrote: To Dwayne and Becky, Aaaahahahahahahaha BURN!!  BreBre |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Steve Adkins Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: George was officially hired for 18 hours a week. Yeah George!! This is a really good piece of news. If there's one person who truly owns the park in his heart & actions, it's George Holub. Good news !!! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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macca wrote: Note to administrators: I thought I was posting both of the above on MAAN. I'm just a lowly supermoderator..........glad you were talking to Patti |
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Steve Adkins Member
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The News & Record is speaking out against the behaviors of Strickland and Crawford. Take a look at this site, post if you like: http://blog.news-record.com/staff/jrblog/archives/2007/03/elected_officia.html |
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FatPappy Member
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Yee haw! That's good to see! |
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BreBre Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: What do you think about the Town Council Meetings? I like the town council meetings. They are very informative. What I find interesting is how there isn't that many people that show up for the Town Council meetings. If the people of Summerfield really knew what was going on during these Town Council meetings I believe the community center would be packed! I think if a lot more people showed up then there wouldn't be little outbursts/interruptions. Maybe people would be on their best behavior and not try to be showy. It's JUST a once a month meeting. I'm sure out of the hundreds of people that live in Summerfield, a few more could attend and show support for the town they live in. Where are you people? They could always video tape the meetings and air them on Public Access TV(free) so people of Summerfield could watch it instead of attending. I also believe the meetings are at a point that a Sherriff needs to sit in and keep order. Is that a free service? BreBre |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I'm sure if the sheriff or a deputy were to attend, there'd be 'somebody' whining about misuse of power because Sheriff Barnes' wife is a sitting council member. Bill Hill does a pretty good job of reining in the wild folks, but boy when he's not there watch out! You're right Bre Bre. If more people would just come and watch, they'd realize what's going on. That Public Access TV thing is a good idea, but I don't know if it's free or not. I also wouldn't begin to know if it's possible or how to make it happen. Hmmm... Councilman Crawford is all about informing the public... sometimes even at his own expense... Maybe he'd foot the bill! |
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WHE Member 
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BreBre wrote: Steve Adkins wrote:What do you think about the Town Council Meetings? Just an outsider's observation... as an alternative to the public access tv idea someone could simply videotape each Town Council Meeting and make it available to all via web site up-link. It would make for interesting archival material. |
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Mossy Oak Member
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I am angered by Councilman Strickland and Crawford's actions. I have been following what has been happening in our town and I am sick of having these two waste our time and money. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Welcome Mossy Oak. Consider joining the Friends For Summerfield (FFS) if you haven't already. Its a new organization and we have a website. Look through the forum for Steve Adkins name. He gives the website with his signature or ckeck out the Friends for Summerfield thread for the address. The group is trying to effect some positive change in Summerfield. |
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Mossy Oak Member
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Thank you for your input and your welcome. I will look up Friends For Summerfield. I have heard good things about this group and their positive approach. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Welcome to the forum Mossy Oak!!
The website for the FFS is http://www.friendsforsummerfield.com They'd love to hear from ya! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Thanks Cracker. I have it bookmarked and couldn't remember the address. |
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BreBre Member
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Do the Town Council members get paid a salary? If so, how much do they each get? BreBre |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by poster. Last edited on Mar 29th, 2007 04:33 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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$100 a month, isn't it? Somethin' like that. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Last edited on Mar 29th, 2007 02:22 pm by EditorPS |
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Cracker Jax Member
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So, does anyone know if the town council meeting that's been called for tonight to discuss what they are going to do about Crawford's council seat is open to the public? If so, where are are they gonna put everybody since they're holding it at Town Hall? |
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Lacka Member
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It is open to the public. Might want to get there early to get a seat. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Uh ok... where exactly are these seats going to be located? The "meeting room" is hardly big enough for the council table and maybe one chair.... "I CALL THE CHAIR!!!" Maybe they'll do it in the museum... that'll be cute. |
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StewartM Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: "I CALL THE CHAIR!!!" Is it a lawn chair????....It might be a BYO meeting |
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Lilly Spears Member
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Lacka wrote: It is open to the public. Might want to get there early to get a seat. Is Strickland going to be asked for her resignation again tonight? I want her chair. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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WELCOME to the forum Lilly Spears!!!!!!!!!
I don't know ya, but you have my vote! I don't know if they'll take speakers from the floor tonight or not, but if they do, and you are there, I certainly hope you'll step forward and speak!! |
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FatPappy Member
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How did the meetin' tarn out? |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy's fadin' fast, so I'll check back in tomorry. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Well Pappy, Everybody crammed into the museum of Summerfield's "municipal building" to witness a very short meeting. Basically, they decided to take applications for the council seat and review them and make a decision by May 1. Strickland of course wanted it to go to a public hearing. I don't much think the other council members thought that was going to be necessary and Bill Hill did not say that it needed to go to a public hearing so I doubt it will. Almost every person who has ever spoken on behalf of the CONCERNED CITIZENS was in attendance, including Crawford. Makes me wonder if they don't have something up their sleeves.... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Ryan Seals was quick on the draw tonight! He's already got his article for the News and Record about tonight's meeting written. Good job Ryan! Summerfield council OKs accepting applications for vacancy |
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SaltyDog Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: Almost every person who has ever spoken on behalf of the CONCERNED CITIZENS was in attendance, including Crawford. How many CC supporters were there CJ? Last edited on Mar 30th, 2007 03:10 am by SaltyDog |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged, Crackah. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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SaltyDog wrote: Cracker Jax wrote:Almost every person who has ever spoken on behalf of the CONCERNED CITIZENS was in attendance, including Crawford.
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SaltyDog Member
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Thanks for the head count Cracker. Is anyone else amazed and a little disappointed that the Summerfield town charter contains no procedure for replacing council members who do not finish their term? It seems to me that that would be a basic component of any organizations charter. Should the current council consider making some ammendments to the charter to address this? |
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Lilly Spears Member
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SaltyDog wrote: Is anyone else amazed and a little disappointed that the Summerfield town charter contains no procedure for replacing council members who do not finish their term? It seems to me that that would be a basic component of any organizations charter. Should the current council consider making some ammendments to the charter to address this? As stated in the NWO--there is a process that the council needs to address. I do not have the current issue with me and cannot recall the correct name of the process. But I do think council needs to proceed with this process and have it in place for the future. I hope we all have learned a valuable lessions not having such a procedure in place. Let's just say--if the petition was going around right now--I would be the first with my signature on it at the top. If you agree--please sign your name and forward this e-mail to everyone concerned. Is it time for Strickland to step down? Please do not break this chain--for it will bring you many years of bad luck. (just a touch of humor) YES 1) Lilly Spears |
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dmauser Member
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Someone has to contact the state legislative and they have to pass a law or admendment or something... I think we should have a way to recall any elected official if they aren't doing a good job, not just the people that are currently sitting on council. Who wants to take on the task of getting up with State Legislators? I will gladly sign a petition to change our charter... |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Salty I think what we learned last night was there is a state statute to cover replacing a council person who steps down or dies. It pretty much says the council has to do it and they can decide how they are to do it. Then there is a special election in November to vote on finishing out the term. The issue with the legislature is the procedure to recall somebody. There really aren't many towns who have a procedure for this. Didn't I read 18 in the NWO. I bet if you called those 18 towns they had an incident and realized they had no way to recall the council person. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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DOGGETTJA wrote: I bet if you called those 18 towns they had an incident and realized they had no way to recall the council person. I was curious about how and when Greensboro added the recall provision to their charter, so I did a little poking around. I was struck by some of the parallels, which probably every growing town/city goes through at some point. Their original charter was adopted in 1810. Around 1829, a property tax of 10 cents per $100 was established. By 1920, Greensboro's population was 19,861, and in 1921 the form of government was changed to a council-manager system. The general assembly approved a new charter in 1923, more than quadrupling the size from 4 to 17.84 square miles and increasing the population to 43,525. New public buildings included a city hall in 1924 and a central fire station in 1926. E.B. Jeffress served as mayor from 1925 to 1929 and was the target of a recall election in 1927. Opponents of city growth and development through the expenditure of public funds were defeated, and Jeffress served a second term. This info came from the book "Greensboro: A Chosen Center" by Gayle Fripp (at the time of publication was curator of the Greensboro Historical Museum). Greensboro's charter has been amended several times since then, and the recall provision was amended in 1959, 1989 and 1991, although I can't find out specifically what changes were made. Their charter says signatures equal to at least 25 percent of the number of voters who voted in the last council election must be collected for a recall. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Applications for the open council position are now available at town hall. Any takers??? |
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SaltyDog Member
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I want to see a race between FatPappy and Jim Flynt. That would be exciting. So I'll just submit applications with their names on 'em. Last edited on Apr 3rd, 2007 04:41 pm by SaltyDog |
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StewartM Member
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Saltydog that wouldn't be a race.....Pappy would give Jimbo a jug of med'cine and he would forget what he was running for or where............. Maybe he needs to bring some for the council..... |
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WB Member
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I wonder if it will become public knowlege who has applied for the vacant Town Council spot. I've thought about the pros can cons and I think that since it is an appointed position, it should be left to the Town Council to make the selection without the public knowing who all of the candidates are. |
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Easton Boy Member
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I do not agree that it hould just be council cousing a person for the the vacant spot. It should be all of summerfield that speeks to council and then let the council think about the reasons and then let the town vote for the spot. This is just my opinion on this and if you disagree that is fine. |
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donwendelken Member
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Sandra - I think I know one taker!!!!!!! Last edited on Apr 4th, 2007 02:10 am by donwendelken |
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GRITS Member
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donwendelken wrote: Sandra - I think I know one taker!!!!!!! thought you might be interested--good luck! And Easton Boy, glad your back-- I don't disagree with your opinion--where's your application? |
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S. Smith Moderator
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donwendelken wrote: Sandra - I think I know one taker!!!!!!! Hi Don, Guess this means you've thrown your hat in the ring. We haven't seen you much around the forum (at least commenting) lately, so welcome back. |
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PaulS Member
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And I, for one, hope Don’s application is not accepted. While I can respect his convictions and willingness to donate time and energy to the local political process, I have noticed the following: 1) when Don needs a vote, he’s on the message board all the time; when it’s between elections, he never posts. 2) when running for the city council, Don made several posts where he claimed to be someone who was open-minded and would listen to all sides; however, a quick internet search brings that claim into question. For example, the following is a letter he sent to the G’boro N&R: “Has anyone noticed the unusual cool weather? It seems that as soon as summer actually gets here, the global warming crowd will start blaming us humans again for all the hot weather. The news will read, "Global warming having effect on local weather." Don't put those snow shovels and rubber boots away yet; you are going to need them because things are going to get deep, and I don't mean from the snow.” Or, when he sent a response to someone else’s letter regarding the war in Iraq, he summed it up by saying “That is what you people would have done (Democrats).” Now, the first thing that struck me about the global warming post was the absurdity of someone taking time out of their day to send a letter that obviously adds nothing to the debate on the issue, and which seems intended to simply antagonize those with a different view than the writer’s. Of course, if he really thinks cool weather in the spring is an important piece of scientific data, or that ‘us humans’ have not had any impact on the environment, that’s really scary. In the second post, I think it’s made clear that those who think differently than Don are, in his words, “you people”. It’s also interesting to see that Don is able to completely predict what 50% of the voting population would do on a given issue, just by knowing their national party affiliation. Most of us know plenty of people on the far left and the far right, and probably have friends, or family, who fall in both camps. But, when I’m casting a vote for a leader at the local level, I’m not looking for someone to toe a national party line, I want someone who truly has an open mind and demonstrates it between elections. I’m hoping for someone who is ready to listen to everyone’s opinion, not just the opinion of “us people”. |
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macca Member
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Well, we know Don hasn't been around much on the forum.... maybe he's been busy keeping up with what's going on in the town by being involved in town business? Participating on committees? Attending meetings? Volunteering his time with the town? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I have to agree with Paul S. I have noticed that Don only shows up on here when he needs votes, and that I could forgive, since we don't see any of the other candidates during the "off campaign season" either. What bothers me is that I haven't seen DonW at any of the town council meetings in over a year except for ONE and that was when he was campaigning for the county commissioner's seat. I also haven't seen Don at any community events or volunteering for any of the town's committees. If I am wrong on that, then I'm sure he'll correct me. I do think that Don's intentions toward the NW area and Summerfield are honorable and sincere, but I don't think he really has any concept of what is going on in the town.....on or off of the council. |
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Starcatchr Member
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Don W., glad to have you on the forum again. You made interesting comments during the last election and I believe you have strong convictions. It was disappointing, however, that you were not involved in town business or community events after the election. Now that you're back, we'll look for new ideas for keeping Summerfield strong. |
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macca Member
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S. Smith wrote:DOGGETTJA wrote:I bet if you called those 18 towns they had an incident and realized they had no way to recall the council person. I know a small group of Stokesdale residents got together a few years back to find out how to go about revising the town charter so that citizens could elect the mayor instead of having council members make that decision. They gathered the necessary signatures and had the necessary change put on the ballot that year. It passed, and in 2006 the town elected the mayor for the first time. I guess it takes time, but obviously there must be a way to change the charter. Obviously I think that what Dwayne Crawford did was awful and I'm glad he resigned his council seat. However, in terms of actions directly affecting council, I think Becky Strickland has committed a much greater offense. However, she has made it clear she will not step down. Maybe it's time for another grassroots movement..... |
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Gestalt Member 
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macca wrote: I think Becky Strickland has committed a much greater offense. However, she has made it clear she will not step down. Maybe it's time for another grassroots movement..... Well spoken. Let's hope some citizens will step up to this plate. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I agree that Strickland's offense was grave indeed. It was a shame that Crawford's offenses, seemed to take the attention/heat off of Strickland. Hopefully the citizens will continue to write letters and speak out against her actions and won't forget what she has done. If the park grant is denied, then the public should do everything they can to ensure that she's held accountable for her misdeeds. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I agree Cracker. If we want change then more people need to speak up. Gestalt welcome. Speak up at Council. Write a letter to NWo or GDN. Support the council members you approve of. Lets turn this constant negativity around and start some positive news. I went to the Oak Ridge horse show Friday and the guy stamping our hands started discussing what in the world was going on in Summerfield and how much he enjoyed (wink, Wink) reading about Summerfield in the paper. I for one don't enjoy being the entertainment for the rest of the county. Join the Friends for Summerfield and lets keep up the good deeds we are trying to accomplish. |
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donwendelken Member
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Good to here all those wonderful comments. I did not return to the forum for anybodys vote. After I saw that Dwayne resigned I was curious what was being said on the forum, nothing more. As far as attending the meetings- I pay close attention to what is going on because Patty and Sandra do a wonderful job of keeping the minutes. As far as volunteering- I guess I am being branded as someone who does not care. I care very much about this town- otherwise I would not have ran for office the first time. Does it mean I am disqualified because I did not volunteer in Summerfield. Do any of you know where I currently volunteer my time? Maybe you should have asked before you sucker punched me. I also observed comments that I don't care about other opinions (comments in the letter to the editor). Those comments are meant to create discussion and it is wonderful for all people (far left and right) to voice their opinions. Well you all take care and if there is something you would like to know about me- ask me first before you assume anything. cell phone 202-0488Have a good day and Happy Easter. Last edited on Apr 9th, 2007 03:13 am by donwendelken |
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Jim Flynt Member
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It seems the larger point that many were trying to make, is that it would be inappropriate to replace and fill the seat of one town council member who polarized the community with another person who is deemed equally polarizing (although for different reasons). What Summerfield needs now is not more polarization, but an individual with a proven background in bridge building among differing polarized factions. And from the comments I have read here, that individual would NOT be Don Wendelkin. |
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GRITS Member
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Do any of the self-nominating individuals who have placed their names into the hat bring forth to the town of Summerfield POSITIVE SYNERGY? |
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bama80 Member
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However, positive synergy is different from expertise and involvement. -btw, this can be taken either way, good or bad. Those with expertise and involvement are not guaranteed to be positive. Last edited on Apr 9th, 2007 04:52 pm by bama80 |
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GRITS Member
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This is true, you have to weigh the pros and cons, and you must have people with different views. Both positive and negative factors help create a stronger bond. With the right individuals sitting on the council, Summerfield can change all this negativity being exhibited and get the town back operating positively. Too much energy is going toward negative criticism. |
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donwendelken Member
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Jim- Give me a call. I would look forward to discussing any concern you may have with Summerfield or me. I believe you would gain a better understanding of who I am. Look forward to hearing from you. My cell phone is 202-0488. Have a good day. Don |
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Gestalt Member
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Don, in my humble opinion, the community would be better served if you would make a run for council in the November election. In that manner, you would have several months to visibly get out and establish yourself among constituents. I recall you made a run during the last Summerfield election, made a run in the Guilford County Commissioners election, didn't get elected in either case, then more less disappeared off the radar screen. I'm sure you have good intentions, but Summerfield needs more than a "submarine" candidate right now, one that surfaces when there's an open spot. Summerfield needs an established presence that has already been thru the learning curve. |
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donwendelken Member
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I appreciate the advice and even though it may seem I have not been paying attention - I am well aware of what is and has been going on in Summerfield. Thanks again. Don |
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bama80 Member
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One of the agenda items for the mtg tonight is the right of first refusal for the laughlin primary property. IF the school board decides to not use this property, what is the opinion of SF getting the property. Also, what kind of price would be put in this sort of property deal. is it like a foreclosure? |
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donwendelken Member
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Bama- If the school board decides they will not need it any longer, they would come up with a figure and I am not sure what formula they will use. They could just sign it over to the town- but don't count on that. What ever the price is the town would need to ask why we need it. I am sure there would be plenty of good ideas, and of course how much can the town afford. This is my thought on the subject. |
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mstone Member
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bama80 wrote: One of the agenda items for the mtg tonight is the right of first refusal for the laughlin primary property. IF the school board decides to not use this property, what is the opinion of SF getting the property. Also, what kind of price would be put in this sort of property deal. is it like a foreclosure? Bama, Only a bunch of short-sighted, fiscally irresponsible nincompoops would shut down or sell a school during a time when they are preparing to ask for support of a multi-million dollar bond referendum. Based on the BOE track record - expect the school to be sold for approximately $3.58 - plus tax. |
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mstone Member
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bama80 wrote: One of the agenda items for the mtg tonight is the right of first refusal for the laughlin primary property. IF the school board decides to not use this property, what is the opinion of SF getting the property. Also, what kind of price would be put in this sort of property deal. is it like a foreclosure? Bama, Only a bunch of short-sighted, fiscally irresponsible nincompoops would shut down or sell a school during a time when they are preparing to ask for support of a multi-million dollar bond referendum. Based on the BOE track record - expect the school to be sold for approximately $3.58 - plus tax. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I rather felt like the gestapo had come to the town council meeting last night with Mom standing over against the kichen taking pictures of the people at the meeting. Wonder what hate filled publication these pictures will show up in? It is sad that we can not come to a Town Council meeting anymore with out worrying about what garbage will show up on the table in the back and now who and why she is taking our pictures. |
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FatPappy Member
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It's really sad she feels the need to be that way, Jane. The poor ol' thang has made such a fool of herself and a joke of her organization. I doubt there's any reasonable person left around here who doesn't at the very least wonder what is wrong with that woman! |
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bama80 Member
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hmm weird. Anyone else taking pics wouldn't be a big deal but since it is her.... kinda creepy. Oh and $3.58? I think I might put my name in for that one. I could do great things with that piece o property. |
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macca Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote:I rather felt like the gestapo had come to the town council meeting last night with Mom standing over against the kichen taking pictures of the people at the meeting. Wonder what hate filled publication these pictures will show up in? It is sad that we can not come to a Town Council meeting anymore with out worrying about what garbage will show up on the table in the back and now who and why she is taking our pictures. Did you all pose nicely? Tongues out, fingers over each other's heads, generally horsing around for her? Of course, the best reaction is probably none at all. She may just be trying to bug you..... Last edited on Apr 11th, 2007 12:51 pm by macca |
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BreBre Member
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Why does everyone call this lady "mom"? If I wanted to print off information about how to take care of pets and place it on the back table at the town council meetings as well, no one could do anything about it correct? If you agree with me please stay seated. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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She gave birth to the CC's, hence the name MOM. |
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GRITS Member
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someone should have strongly suggested to abort! |
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Gestalt Member
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BreBre wrote: If I wanted to print off information about how to take care of pets and place it on the back table at the town council meetings as well, no one could do anything about it correct? If you agree with me please stay seated. We're all still sitting. (Sounds like you don't like the standing up thing??) You bring up an interesting point though. All the CC information I've seen has been directed at villainizing council members or town processes, but none has strayed outside the subjects of Summerfield's political machine. Apparently Mom has no hobbies she wants to share with her Summerfield neighbors other than...........oops, no I'm wrong already. Apparently photography is a hobby, since she was taking photos at the Town Council meeting last week. Maybe she'll leave some info on how to best highlight some folks in her photos, and mysteriously leave others out. It's fairly assured the photos will resurface with a negative spin, when all folks were there legitimately, and simply "getting involved". Sorry Moderators..........I'm getting off topic Last edited on Apr 15th, 2007 01:56 pm by Gestalt |
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StewartM Member
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Gestalt wrote: It's fairly assured the photos will resurface with a negative spin, when all folks were there legitimately, and simply "getting involved". She has done this in past with ads in the newspaper....... |
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GRITS Member
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speaking of Mom, has anyone received the new mass letter that was distributed this week to the core? |
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bama80 Member
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<- not a SF resident but please enlighten us. |
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GRITS Member
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JUST know there is a new letter circulating, but unaware of the contents. That is what I am trying to find out as well. Maybe this where the pics will show up. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I hear that she attached an application for the council seat to this letter and asked the folks who received the letter to fill out the application. I don't know what she hopes to accomplish by doing this since there's not going to be an election at this time, other than perhaps overworking the staff..... She also mentions the make believe "1 million dollar amphitheater". Maybe she's hard of hearing or something. I dunno...... And now she's alluding to the fact that Strickland (and Crawford)have been the only supporter of ballfields when the past councils have worked so tirelessly to get ballfields for our kids - and Strickland even fought against a previous site before she was on the council because it was too near to her home. I think the author of that letter is going to try to make people believe that just because plans for phase II of the park are under way, that the TC has put that IN FRONT of ballfields. Can they not work on BOTH projects??? Come on! |
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GRITS Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
This woman is crazy! She needs to grow up. Better yet, let her hair down, invite Strickland an dCrwf to a SRA baseball and learn how to have fun. I hope I have my camara just to catch her face stuffing a hotdog in her mouth. At least something will shut her up! |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Where has Ms Strickland, Dwayne Crawford, or Ms Dunham ever shown support for ball fields? Main Entry: 1sup·port [url=javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?suppor01.wav=support')]  [/url]Pronunciation: s&-'port Function: transitive verb Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French supporter, from Late Latin supportare, from Latin, to transport, from sub- + portare to carry -- more at FARE 1 : to endure bravely or quietly : BEAR 2 a (1) : to promote the interests or cause of (2) : to uphold or defend as valid or right : ADVOCATE <supports fair play> (3) : to argue or vote for <supported the motion to lower taxes> b (1) : ASSIST, HELP <bombers supported the ground troops> (2) : to act with (a star actor) (3) : to bid in bridge so as to show support for c : to provide with substantiation : CORROBORATE <support an alibi> 3 a : to pay the costs of : MAINTAIN <support a family> b : to provide a basis for the existence or subsistence of <the island could probably support three -- A. B. C. Whipple> <support a habit> 4 a : to hold up or serve as a foundation or prop for b : to maintain (a price) at a desired level by purchases or loans; also : to maintain the price of by purchases or loans 5 : to keep from fainting, yielding, or losing courage : COMFORT 6 : to keep (something) going I have not seen any of this from this group. Now DC did give a check to the Town for purchase of land in the amount of the stipend raise council recieved. That may be considered support. |
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Lilly Spears Member
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I would like to thank all the Summerfield Town Council members and the potential applicant's that came out yesterday to view the prospected properties for future ballfields. Whether you are for or against, this support does show your true interest does lie within the Summerfield resident. Your actions within the town speak loudly of you and I for one do keep that in consideration when election time rolls around. If I do not see or hear you in public and only at meetings, then I myself question your truthfulness and what your real meanings are for being a public figure. I will not display the names of who participated, for you know yourself, including myself. Remember your town is always listening and watching . Lilly |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I'm afraid some of the recent comments are straying too far away from the topic and are "flaming" people and not ideas. I'll ask you guys to please stick to the forum rules. |
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donwendelken Member
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Lily, I find your remarks very interesting and you do have a very good point. I for one was not there to meet everyone to view the properties because I was out of town. However, that does not mean I should not view the properties, because I was not here on that day. My day of reviewing these properties will be this week. Please do not come to any conclusions or assumptions because I was not there or anyone else who may not have been there. Lets not throw rocks at someone because they were not there the same day you were there. These are the kind of things that create tension between the council and the citizens. Thank you, Don |
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Lilly Spears Member
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donwendelken wrote: Lily, none concluded nor assumed at this time--yes, you have next weekend as well. I will tell you this, thank you for your support for our Veterans, I do remember you standing along the road with an American flag in your hand. You have made a memorable impression in Summerfield. I have also spoken to you at Summerfield's school last Fall Festival, so again thank you for publicly displaying your integrity. I will also tell you this, you would have gotten my vote if I had not been in the hospital for pre-term labor at the time of the last election, but unfortunately it was unpredictable. I am not throwing rocks, it is just how I base my vote--because I choose who speaks for me. Last edited on Apr 23rd, 2007 01:33 am by Lilly Spears |
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Steve Adkins Member
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I'm really glad that Don Wendelkyn & Mike Stewart are among the many stepping up to the plate with regard to the open TC slot, and that both are willing to get on this forum and talk to us. Thanks Don for joining us. Thanks Mike for having been here for some time..........and for continually reminding those of us with elevated cholesterol how much we miss BACON !!!!! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Congratulations John Wray as the new Town Council member. The array of folks who signed up as candidates, and the obvious seriousness of all of all of them toward the position, was impressive tonight. |
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GRITS Member
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yoo whooooo!! yee haw---way to go Johnny!!!!!! |
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StewartM Member
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Congratulations John and welcome back to the council........ |
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FatPappy Member
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Good choice. Congratulations, Mr Wray! Congratulations, Summerfield! Proud of you, Mr MIke. I hope we're all ready to move on now. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Many thanks to all who applied for the vacant position. Please don't be a stranger to the Town. Please come out to the Town council meetings and other committee meetings as well. We need many volunteers in all areas. Come see me or ask for me at any function. I am always glad to speak to all about the future of Summerfield. Many of the applicants I know and have spoken with from time to time. Come out to the ball park and have a hotdog on me. Come see the future leaders of the Town play ball. Congratulations to John Wray. Great Man. Great Leader. Great Friend to the Town |
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GRITS Member
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After witnessing the town council meeting last night, I must say I am appalled the way our leaders have spoken for the Summerfield Community. Deana Barnes---what was your wishy washy behavior? First agreeing with John Wray regarding the safety issue with the Marshall property--but then voting on risking my child's safety and in favor of motioning the option to purchase the Marshall property. Becky Strickland--her only argument that she kept referring to was Sally Lawings letter to exercise her first right of refusal. All she had to do was say ok let's do it, and actually see what happens. That cost no money to do--she may buy she may not. She should have been made to dish out her money since this piece of property was tied up because of this reason. For heaven's sake, I can't even believe Strickland said she could not support the Friddle property because it was only profiting Mr. Friddle., and that it was to costly at the expense of the taxpayers dollar. That is an outrageous excuse for not wanting the town to purchase this piece of property. Is Mr. Marshall not going to profit as well? Strickland has even said that this is the most expensive piece of property. Sorry, her argument was a stupid one. And now, more money has been allocated for the Marshall property at the expense of the town--was she not wanting taxpayer's to not pay more money? Mark Brown---as a Mayor please get a backbone! You at first said you would not agree to put a ballfield on 220 unless a light would be installed. Someone might get killed. If you don't remember, please refer back to the minutes of previous meetings. It is even published in the NW Observer. What a JOKE. Further more, I do not appreciate the under the table discussions persuading your council to favor the Marshall property when in fact this was to be a public forum and then voted on. Is this not what Strickland and her group of Concerned Citizens have been arguing about? Topics such as this need to be brought before the town and discussed instead of making the deal before the meeting takes place? Seems as though Strickland was involved in this under the table discussions herself. That is what Mark Brown let people know Wednesday evening. He personally made a phone call to Jay Copeland and specifically told him that 5 of his council members were going to vote on the Marshall property. He then told John Turner that it was a done deal during the day on Thursday before the meeting even took place. He e-mailed me the same information. What does Strickland have to say now that she is as guilty as the rest of the council members when it comes to making deals without the town's knowledge? I suppose it's ok since she won the battle. Thank God this is an election year---it is time for a change. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote:
Grits, have you thought about running for office? Change can be good. |
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Hairbrush Member
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Did not the Parks and Rec community recommend to the council the marshall property after they discussed all the properties in their meeting on Tuesday? Is not the Marshall property purchased based on whether there can be another access onto the property and a light placed on 220? The town looked at another property on 220 and seemed to be ready to buy it until environmental concerns were brought up. I am sure this piece of property will have to have the same due process and if it is receiving any kind of State or Federal Money it would have to follow the State Environmental Policy Act (SEPA) and have an Environmental Assessment. I would also hope that if the town is planning to have bathrooms that they would make sure it would perc. Unfortunately, sometimes there has to be compromise. We still want ballfields so I hope the town will still work together to get to that point. |
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GRITS Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: GRITS wrote: No wayyyy Jim, I may be a little too outspoken at times AND do not mind standing up for what I think is right, but I am not crazy. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:GRITS wrote: Grits, do you think being crazy is a prerequiste for running for office or serving in office in Summerfield? |
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GRITS Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: GRITS wrote:Jim Flynt wrote:GRITS wrote: No, I didn't emphasize that comment nor insinuate crazy was a prerequisite for any one serving. I was merely referring to my own sanity. But why do you specifically direct this to Summerfield? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:GRITS wrote:Jim Flynt wrote:GRITS wrote: Grits, I don't think your comments are exclusive to any one particular place. I'm sorry if you read that inference into my remark. I did not mean to infer that Summerfield has an exclusive monopoly on political zaniness. It happens everywhere. Including a certain town much closer to home. |
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GRITS Member
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I had a neighbor e-mail me these questions, can anyone answer them? Is there anything written "rule of conduct" or "voting procedures" that these council members must perform their duties by? How does it work that prior to the general meeting a decision is already made? I may not be well educated on the ballfields however as a citizen of Summerfield it is my right to know if any violation has occurred here. If so, then as a citizen of Summerfield I want to know my right on either removing said leader or reprimanding them. |
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Hairbrush Member
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There is no policy for removing or reprimanding a council member. That is the problem I had when Becky Strickland went behind the council backs to send the letter to the PartF grant saying she didn't want the grant after the council had voted to go forward with the grant. I think they get all the maps and such before the public hearing and can certainly do their own research on a public hearing case. I don't think it is unusual for them to already have an idea on how they are going to vote but they must still have citizens input. Anyone correct me out there if I am wrong on that. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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It is perfectly OK for anybody to call the council members and poll them as to how they are going to vote on a subject. They don't have to tell you of course if they choose not to.There does not need to be any meeting of any sort to gather that information. Also a meeting is only illegal if a majority of council members meet with out proper notification and conduct business. The council had been gathering information for months on the ballfields. They are constantly informed of changes by staff. The council has to weigh all the information and come up with the answer. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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I have been meaning to post a note that a couple of weeks ago, I had received a really nice letter from the Town of Summerfield saying Thanks for sponsoring a 'brick' in the park brickway and also to let me know the brick had been installed and was ready for viewing. I had already taken notice of the installation from comments posted here and had stopped by to see the beautiful new park brickway. I just wanted to say that I thought the Thank-You Letter from the Town of Summerfield was such a wonderful gesture and to let you all know how much I appreciated that note. How very professional and how inspiring such a gesture means to volunteers and supporters. Thanks again! I simply wish that our town government here in Stokesdale would take some steps to say Thanks to community volunteers and supporters and encourage volunteerism in our community. Last edited on Jun 6th, 2007 01:53 am by Jim Flynt |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Jim Flynt wrote: I have been meaning to post a note that a couple of weeks ago, I had received a really nice letter from the Town of Summerfield saying Thanks for sponsoring a 'brick' in the park brickway and also to let me know the brick had been installed and was ready for viewing. I had already taken notice of the installation from comments posted here and had stopped by to see the beautiful new park brickway. Jim, I agree that is a very professional way to handle this situation. Last year I received a handwritten note from the mayor of Oak Ridge thanking me for my volunteer service, and I was touched and impressed by it. But a year or two ago, some citizens and of members of the Summerfield town council objected to the town spending funds to send Christmas cards to volunteers as a way of thanking them for their service. As I recall, Dwayne Crawford volunteered to personally pay for the cards as opposed to having the town pay for it. So there are two sides to this issue -- many people believe there is value in thanking their volunteers, thinking that the hours and work they donate are worth far more than the price of a card or letter, while others do not want government to spend money for anything other than what is absolutely necessary. While a card or letter and some postage is not a huge expenditure, their thinking is that it all adds up. Any comments? |
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happycamper Member
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I would like to think that sending a " Thank You" card that costs what..$1.00 or $2.00 is a small small price to pay for hours of dedicated service. I wish we could get back to some common sense when it comes to spending tax dollars. To me when I see folks "bucking" at something as small as this, it turns me off to what they think about concerning the big issues. I would like "big ticket" expensive items being put to a majority town vote ( not just a council vote) especially if it will dip into the bank account or have a remote possiblity of increasing my taxes! It's like being considerd a "liberal" .. I used to consider myself more of a liberal than a conservative, however after listening to someone like "Rosie O'donnel" speak on behalf of the "liberal" position, I think I'll give the conservative approach a try! |
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FatPappy Member
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S. Smith wrote:So there are two sides to this issue -- many people believe there is value in thanking their volunteers, thinking that the hours and work they donate are worth far more than the price of a card or letter, while others do not want government to spend money for anything other than what is absolutely necessary. Volunteers are absolutely necessary an' showin' our appreciation of 'em is too. We don't value 'em near enough, an' I ain't talkin' about monetary value, neither. We'd be in sad shape if they all got fed up one day an' quit. They volunteered fer the town, so I think it's entirely appropriate to spend a few town dollars to show our appreciation. Pappy has to stop an' marvel sometimes at the audacious workin's o' certain minds an' the frivolous ideas that sometimes escape from 'em shamelessly an' poorly disguised as legitimate issues an' principles. |
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jwg Guest
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GRITS wrote: I had a neighbor e-mail me these questions, can anyone answer them? Perhaps Rep. Earl Jones can help out: http://blog.news-record.com/staff/scoopblog/archives/2007/05/recalling.html#comments Rep. Earl Jones, a member of the PAC, has authored and successfully shepherded through the House a bill to create a recall election in Pleasant Garden. The bill now goes to the Senate. |
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FatPappy Member
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Interestin', jwg. Welcome to the forum! I certainly think we need some kind o' recall option in Summerfield. It's not somethin' to take lightly, but there needs to be some measure in the hands o' the voters to enforce accountability fer them what thinks they're above it. On t'other hand, if there was a recall option, you'd prob'ly see somebody or other callin' fer one every second Wednesday o' the month! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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jwg wrote: GRITS wrote:I had a neighbor e-mail me these questions, can anyone answer them? Thanks for that info, jwg, and welcome to the forum. To my knowledge, there is nothing to stop Summerfield or any other town from doing the same, but such a bill would have to be approved by the N.C. legislature. In other words, not something that happens overnight and the kind of thing that could get stalled in committee for who knows how long unless you can get some legislators on your side to help move things along. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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FatPappy wrote: On t'other hand, if there was a recall option, you'd prob'ly see somebody or other callin' fer one every second Wednesday o' the month! Pappy, I think the only thing that might stop that from happening is the fact that for most recalls, you have to get signatures of enough voters, the same as if you were asking for anything else to be added to the ballot. Generally speaking, I think that's 10% of the registered voters who voted in the last election (although that could vary depending on how the town charter is written). If you remember the petition to change how the mayor is elected and changing that the mayor has no vote except in the case of a tie, that's exactly what was done. Lots of people might say they want a recall, but I don't know how many would be willing to go out and collect the number of signatures which would be required. If you heard about the issue in Greensboro yesterday, Diane Bellamy-Small is now stalling the recall election to remove her of office. An adequate number of registered voter signatures had been approved, but now Bellamy-Small says she wants the signatures authenticated. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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GRITS wrote: I had a neighbor e-mail me these questions, can anyone answer them? GRITS, Summerfield does have a "code of ethics" by which council members are supposed to operate. You can get a copy of it at town hall, or I think I have a copy in my file. PM me if you're interested in it. As Jane said, there is nothing illegal about making a decision before a meeting and I'm sure it happens more often than you realize. As long as a majority of council members don't meet and discuss town business when the meeting hasn't been announced, it is okay. It is certainly okay for a council member to call other members of council to discuss how they are voting and even try to sway them to their way of thinking. If council members are smart, they have done their homework ahead of time and hopefully talked to citizens about what they want. A lot of people don't know it, but although it certainly doesn't hurt to speak at a public hearing and I've seen council members change their mind at the last minute as a result, the time to discuss an issue with council members and let them know what you want is really before it gets to the public hearing/vote taking part of the process. |
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FatPappy Member
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S. Smith wrote:Lots of people might say they want a recall, but I don't know how many would be willing to go out and collect the number of signatures which would be required. True dat! Recall is a serious bidness. It don't need to be too easy nor too quick. For one thing, it eats up a lot o' time that ain't bein' spent on other bidness. |
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GRITS Member
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Mayor Mark Brown of Summerfield presented a $300.00 check to the Northern Guilford Middle School Marching band at their award ceremony this morning. This was awarded to them on behalf of the Town Council for their participation in the Founder's Day Parade. Thanks to all, for displaying very commendable and honorable acts of kindness. I am sure Dr. VanMiddlesworth and her students appreciate your thoughtfulness. |
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FatPappy Member
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Well, the council voted fer the choice betwixt Mayor-Council vs. Manager-Council form o' government to go on the ballot in November. Yee haw! Tweence now an' then, Bill Hill will he'p the council to set up one or more public information sessions to inform the public in a un-biased mannner. Pappy has found that there's lots o' good information 'bout the two forms already out yonder on the internets an' elsewhar, an' I reckon anybody else who really wanted to find that information could too. Speakin' o' bein' informed, I understand a Citizen spoke durin' the budget public hearin' portion o' the meetin' last night to complain that there was never any chance fer public comments on the budget. This public comment about the budget was made durin' a public comment session about the budget. Public comment session. About the budget. Then there was the time recently when town staff hosted a public workshop to receive input from the public about the budget. They waited 45 minutes, I hear, an' no public showed up to publicly comment. I say, they waited 45 minutes an' no public showed up to publicly comment. I reckon that's one comment they heard loud an' clear. Last edited on Jun 13th, 2007 12:28 pm by FatPappy |
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Steve Adkins Member
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FatPappy wrote: Well, the council voted fer the choice betwixt Mayor-Council vs. Manager-Council form o' government to go on the ballot in November. Mayor-Council - this is good news, how many public speakers spoke up? What was the council comments? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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FatPappy wrote: Speakin' o' bein' informed, I understand a Citizen spoke durin' the budget public hearin' portion o' the meetin' last night to complain that there was never any chance fer public comments on the budget. This public comment about the budget was made durin' a public comment session about the budget. Public comment session. About the budget. I can probably guess who this citizen was, and if true, sounds like this citizen was peeved that the council didn't all go to this citizens house, sit at the kitchen table and listen to this citizens comments (complaints) for a solid hour. |
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StewartM Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Mayor-Council - this is good news, how many public speakers spoke up? What was the council comments? BS voted no...she doesn't want to let citizen chose their form of government... |
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Hairbrush Member
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I am thinking there were around 10 speakers. Scuba Jane is going to check and see if we can get more folders that shows both sides of mayor council and manager council to help educate the people. Bill Hill pointed out that now that the council has put the vote to the people the council has to be real careful to not play sides and to be strictly neutral. I know that will be hard for some. What did the you guys think of Dwayne's 5 minute talk during the budget public hearing that really didn't have anything to do with the budget? I wasn't planning to get up and speak but I did feel I had to get up and pull us back on topic and correct Ms. Dunham saying that there was not need for us to charge a tax. If we don't charge a tax then we don't get any sales tax and if we were to incorporate right now then then the state government would say that we had to charge a tax to incorporate. The way she can twist words. A big standing applause to our positive speaker. He did a great job. Boy did we need some positive thoughts last night and that really started the night off great. Dana and Michael did a great job answering questions also last night. I thought the way they picked the people for the comprehensive committee was good also. Everyone got people they wanted on the list. BS pouted a little because she didn't get everyone she wanted on the list. She also felt that the couple of developers and real estate agents shouldn't have been on because they were major stakeholders and would have their own meetings. First I took offense to that, because I felt we are all major stakeholders in the town of Summerfield and all want to see the best Summerfield possible and 2 I think if we are talking about deciding were we want development and commercial cores to be then we need developers and real estate members on the steering committee. Then she set out to attack Paul Milam and felt that everyone already knew what his agenda was and that he would keep people from being involved. If no one showed up for the budget hearings then why would she be surprised if it would be hard to raise interest for the comprehensive plan. People are busy. I think we should all get more involved as this is a very important process. I do believe that people might be worried that it will turn into one of the council meetings and they might be tired of some the attitudes they are seeing there. Just a thought. The committee was a great mixture of long time town members who can remember what the town use to be like and new town members who know why they were so attracted to this town so I think some really good things will come from this work. A merit raise was voted on for Michael. Boy I don't know how he does it. He does such a great job for this town. Maybe others who were there can fill in the blanks. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: This public comment about the budget was made durin' a public comment session about the budget. Public comment session. About the budget. That's just too funny Pappy! Sad, but funny. I think Steve's right....doesn't matter what the council does to make some people happy..... it's just not gonna happen. Any more ramblin' speeches of interest? And just what was Strickland's logic in not letting the citizens decide on the change of government? Isn't it her camp that's always whining about sending things to referendum? I figured this would be a no brainer.........So much for compromise. ( BTW Way off topic but I just saw happycamper's new avatar and it sorta frightened me! ) |
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FatPappy Member
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StewartM wrote:Steve Adkins wrote:Mayor-Council - this is good news, how many public speakers spoke up? What was the council comments? Pappy ain't good with numbers that ain't got dollar or quart marks to go with 'em, but mebbe 7 or 8 people spoke in favor of a referendum. One citizen wanted the council to vote ag'in manager-council right then an' thar, but if not, then she would settle fer a referendum. "Let the tax payers-slash-voters decide!" That's been the rallyin' cry from some folks on every other issue and non-issue that comes up. I say, if anythang needs to be decided by a direct vote of the people, the form o' government we operate under surely qualifies. I'm happy the council decided to go that way. Whichever way that vote goes, I hope we can afterwards leave all the dead horses where they fell along with whoever enjoys dead horses fer comp'ny an' get on with things. That includes you too, Pappy. Me? But... Yes, you too. Aww... What about dead skunks? Well, that's diff'ernt. |
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FatPappy Member
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Hairbrush wrote:Everyone got people they wanted on the list. BS pouted a little because she didn't get everyone she wanted on the list. She also felt that the couple of developers and real estate agents shouldn't have been on because they were major stakeholders and would have their own meetings. First I took offense to that, because I felt we are all major stakeholders in the town of Summerfield and all want to see the best Summerfield possible and 2 I think if we are talking about deciding were we want development and commercial cores to be then we need developers and real estate members on the steering committee. Good points, HB. It seemed like a good representative. By the way, if BS has somethin' of value to offer, an' I b'lieve she does sometimes, then she should offer it! But PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, I wish she would leave the attitude an' the innuendo an' the baseless accusations out of it! It's tiresome an' unproductive. |
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FatPappy Member
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Hairbrush wrote:What did the you guys think of Dwayne's 5 minute talk during the budget public hearing that really didn't have anything to do with the budget? I thought it was strange, pointless, tiresome, and about 5 minutes too long. |
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StewartM Member
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FatPappy wrote: Hairbrush wrote: He changed his name to CDC..... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: Hairbrush wrote: Dang it! I told that boy to write his speeches out before hand! That's the secret you see.... if it doesn't make sense when you read it back to yourself, then it's probably not gonna make sense to us either. Oh well.... What's CDC? Nevermind. Don't answer that (might be considered flaming... not sure...). I can figure it out or at least make up something that'll fit. |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Crackah, I b'lieve Mr Mike is referin' to the new nickname Dwayne gave hisse'f, Criminal Dwayne (Crawford). Apparently, he called hisse'f that sev'ral times. (Is that flamin'?) |
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FatPappy Member
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Hairbrush wrote:I am thinking there were around 10 speakers. HB, I'll go with your estimate. When I pulled mine outta my hat, I think I accidentally tore off the hat size label... |
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StewartM Member
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Pappy it's not flaming....he was bragging and proud.... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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FatPappy wrote: Cracker Jax wrote: Well! I for one am very happy to see that he's finally acquiescing to the allegations. As if the acquiescence by abandonment of his position wasn't enough. (And I dont' think it counts if one flames ones own self Pappy. |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Hee hee! I'd be happy if he'd exercise his right to remain silent. By the way, I understand the comprehensive plan bunch met yestiddy. I hope they can work together an' get somethin' goin'. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: FatPappy wrote:Criminal Dwayne (Crawford) Speaking of which: What ever happened to all the criminal investigations and what (so many) represented to be Dwayne's impending arrest? Was he ever charged or arrested for any heinous criminal acts? Interestingly, folks around the country have been watching closely (and with great disgust) the hearings down in Raleigh this week, where a rogue prosecutor down in Durham County is on trial for charging folks with being guilty until proven innocent and for sensationally trying a case in the media rather than in the courtroom. Many of us keep waiting to see Old Dwayne's photo on the front page of The Northwest Observer being hauled off to the hoosegaw with handcuffs on. What gives? Last edited on Jun 14th, 2007 02:16 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Was he ever charged or arrested for any heinous criminal acts? I'm not sure what ever became of that investigation Jimbo. It ought to be easier for the law to catch up with him now that he's acquiesced though........ Doesn't really matter to me either way. I got what I wanted. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
It never really was about crime or justice was it Crackah? Just the same old same old politics as usual in Summerfield. Dwayne was simply Nifonged. Last edited on Jun 14th, 2007 06:27 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Poor Dwayne. I'm not gonna argue with you Jim. You will continue to compare apples to oranges no matter what we say. I suppose it's your neverending desire to pull for the underdog and single handedly solve all of the world's political problems. Have fun old buddy.
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S. Smith Moderator
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Jim Flynt wrote: Speaking of which: What ever happened to all the criminal investigations and what (so many) represented to be Dwayne's impending arrest? The most recent communication we had, the detective was still investigating and communicating with the DA on this issue. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Nothing more you need to say Crackah. Your earlier post says it all. And more. I just happen to believe in trying cases in courtrooms instead of newspapers. I also happen to believe people are innocent until proven guilty. Imagine that! Have a nice afternoon. Last edited on Jun 14th, 2007 06:26 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:(Feb. 11, 2007) "I would really hope that everybody would be willing to withhold judgment until that procedure that is already in place had been given an opportunity to work," Nifong said. Jim Flynt wrote: I just happen to believe in trying cases in courtrooms instead of newspapers. I also happen to believe people are innocent until proven guilty. Imagine that! Imagine that... (Whoops. I originally put December as the date, but that Nifong post was made in February I b'lieve.) Last edited on Jun 14th, 2007 07:12 pm by FatPappy |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: The earlier comment (which is now being taken and posted out of context) is that Nifong was a 'scoundrel' and should be 'tossed into jail' BECAUSE OF HIS OBVIOUS DUPLICITY (based on his own statement). The Nifong statement clearly points out clear duplicity by any understanding of the mere definition of duplicity. The problem with duplicity and hypocrisy are that they are mere moral failings although not crimes under the law. Right Pappy? Last edited on Jun 14th, 2007 07:07 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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S. Smith wrote:The most recent communication we had, the detective was still investigating and communicating with the DA on this issue. Much obliged, Sandra. I reckon the many who keep waiting to see Old Dwayne's photo on the front page of The Northwest Observer being hauled off to the hoosegaw with handcuffs on will just have to wait. I agree with the Crackah. I was glad for a variety of reasons that Dwayne stepped down. I never thought he had the vision, maturity, or temperament for public office. I don't particularly want to see him in irons. I don't particularly want to see him at all. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Excerpt from today's Atlanta Journal Constitution: Ruth Graham, Steadfast as Evangelist's Wife, Mother, Author "She ... would rather chat with ushers and housekeeping staff" than mingle with celebrities," wrote biographer and mystery writer Patricia Cornwell. Though she could be tough and feisty, Ruth had a soft heart for underdogs of all kinds. Cornwell wrote in her biography: "Had she ever kept a guest book, it would have held the names of drug addicts, thieves, the delusional and deranged and juvenile delinquents from the local detention center who had committed crimes of vandalism or murder." It would also have included Patsy Daniels and her brother — children whose mother dumped them unceremoniously on the Grahams' doorstep as she headed out of town. When she married one of her college English professors, a marriage that failed, Patsy Daniels became Patricia Cornwell. I am flattered to be accused of having a soft heart for the underdogs of the world as well as privileged to share the characteristic with and company of such a pious and kind hearted woman as Ruth Bell Graham. What a blessing! She surely is at home in Heaven tonight. Her suffering over, her journey complete. So I say Thank-you for your kind comment. It is without a doubt, one of the nicest compliments I have ever been paid. It is a badge of honor I wear with great pride. Last edited on Jun 15th, 2007 01:02 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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We need to get back on topic. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: We need to get back on topic. Just in case anyone lost their place of where the topic was, here it is:
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FatPappy Member
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By the way, I understand the comprehensive plan bunch met yestiddy. I hope they can work together an' get somethin' goin'. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Yes, they have a long & complicated job ahead of themselves. Let's wish them the best as they make a plan. |
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FatPappy Member
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I don't know ever'body on there, but it sounds like we got a good cross section. Pappy's optimistic. |
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FatPappy Member
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In all the commotion I fergot to give Michael a hearty "YEE HAW!" in honor of his much deserved raise! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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FatPappy wrote: By the way, I understand the comprehensive plan bunch met yestiddy. I hope they can work together an' get somethin' goin'. Those of you at the meeting know there was some dissention among the council about the way this group was chosen. Everybody looked at the applications and then rated them from 1 to 27 (I think that's how many applications they received). Then they sent their list to Finance Officer Dana Luther, and she put together the list based on the council's votes. Do you think this was a fair way to choose this group? One person thought the council should have interviewed the people, but evidently they had the option of contacting people individually if they wanted to (sounds like that's what John Wray did). Do you think enough diversity is represented? (I guess that could be all kinds of stuff, from young people vs. retired, newcomers vs. longtime residents, business people vs. maybe stay-to-home moms, people in the development/real estate industry vs. those not, people who had served on committees before vs. those who had not been involved in town activities, etc. etc.) Becky seemed to think that when the public learns the makeup of the group, they will not support it or the plan these people put together. Do you agree? (I've highlighted my questions so you can see what I'm asking.) |
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FatPappy Member
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I think it's interestin' how differ'nt towns work. I was readin' in the NWO about Oak Ridge adoptin' their budget with an 8.somethin' prop'ty tax rate an' all kinds o' money budgeted fer parks an' such. Meanwhile, SF has more people an' a 3.somethin' rate an' some folks say it's killin' us! Aha! But what happens when they discover they need to unexpectedly spend a few more thou on the acoustics in their new town hall (new town hall??!!)? Now we'll see some action, I thought! Nope, they just proceded to fix the problem without any overwhelmin' cries o' criminal intent or incompetence. SF would have had to spend a few thou on fulfillin' FOIA requests an' a truck load o' yeller tape fer the "CCSI-Summerfield" crime scene investigation. (Actually, I b'lieve they use red tape.) Anyway, just thought it was interestin'. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Sandra I thought it was an excellent and very fair way to appoint the committee. I think 27 applicants was a good number since they wanted 15 to 20 on the committee. I don't not think the people should have been interviewed if in fact the town wanted a fair representative cross section. The applications that were filled out gave the pertinent information. People showed an interest by filling the application out. There did not seem to be any effort to push the committee one way or the other ie a lot of developers for example did not apply. There are some old residents, new, business people etc. In other words a good cross section of the town seems to be representative. The people who got the most votes from the council got put on the committee and the fact is with only 7 alternates for a committee that is expected to last a year and a half will probably result in all the applicants at some point have a vote. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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S. Smith wrote:
Sandra, would you please share the names of WHO was appointed to this committee for those who haven't heard? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: I was readin' in the NWO about Oak Ridge adoptin' their budget with an 8.somethin' prop'ty tax rate an' all kinds o' money budgeted fer parks an' such. Meanwhile, SF has more people an' a 3.somethin' rate an' some folks say it's killin' us! It should also be pointed out that the Town of Stokesdale imposes NO property tax on its citizens whatsoever and seems to be providing services similar to or greater than the other two communities without imposing a tax. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: Becky seemed to think that when the public learns the makeup of the group, they will not support it or the plan these people put together. Do you agree? Becky probably will have a problem with it, since Becky tends to have a problem with virtually everything. Since the group consists of a representative group of the public, the group IS the public, and in all likelihood, will come up with a very reasonable plan. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Since the group consists of a representative group of the public, the group IS the public, and in all likelihood, will come up with a very reasonable plan. Actually, the group is a sub-set of the public. A group of the public would be a committee of the whole or the entirety of all members. An example: Let A be the set of all Blondies and let B be the set of all women. All the blondies are women, but all women are not blondies. The set of blondies is a subset of the set of women. If all the women were Blondies then the set of Blondies would be equal to the set of women. You might wish to consider updating your understanding and knowledge of set theory and can do so at the following weblink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Jim Flynt wrote: S. Smith wrote: I guess my question was more about the method of how the people were chosen as oposed to who they really are. But for those that are interested, committee members are Gary Ajemian, Bill Gordon, Jef Chalmers, Nancy Hess, Charlie Chappell, Michael Huntoon, Ken Dunham, Mia Malesovas, Mitchell Fahrer, Terry McLean, Alicia Flowers, Paul Milam, Dawn Ford, Lewis Nash, Dail Perry, Steven Pierotti, David Shaw, Linda Southard, Randy Tinsley, Bill True. Non-voting ex officio members are Doug Canavello, Dwayne Crawford, Parker Jackson, Erin McLean, Peggy McPartlan, Anne Nusskern, Steve Stalker. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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The Town of Summerfield passed its budget tonight with the majority of the money for the matching grant to finish the park and to buy and build ballfields. Hopefully next year this time we will have more ball fields for the kids to play on and a park to walk and meet in. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Good news Jane !! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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S. Smith wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:Sandra, would you please share the names of WHO was appointed to this committee for those who haven't heard? Sandra, Thanks for answering my question. Looks like a fairly 'representative' group to me. I'm sure they will do an outstanding job. |
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FatPappy Member
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Steve Adkins wrote:Good news Jane !! Pappy'll second that! |
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FatPappy Member
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It's still early yet, I reckon, but does anybody have any news to share on who might be plannin' to run for council this time? I understand possibly all the current council plans to run again with the exception of Collins who ain't decided yet. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I don't know Pappy, but I heard that Mr. John Wray went to sign up to run for re-election in Nov. and was told down at the BOElections that he still had 2 years left on his term.... I reckon he's gonna have to finish out ol' Crawford's term after all...... Not real sure what happened there... Last I heard (at the council meetin' where he was appointed), he was gonna fill the seat until November and have to run to keep it, now the powers that be say different.... That's a good thing I'm thinkin'.
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Jim Flynt Member
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So Ol' Dwayne can run for a brand new 4 year term then right? I'm hearing he is in the race! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: So Ol' Dwayne can run for a brand new 4 year term then right?
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FatPappy Member
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Glad to hear Mr Wray's got two more years. That wasn't what I understood the deal to be originally, but it suits me. Interestin' about Crawford. If I was pullin' fer him, which I ain't, I'd hafta wonder if he would up an' quit again if things got tough. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Interesting town council meeting last night. I was glad to see the majority of the council give Michael and Bill Hill a vote of confidence after Ms Strickland made her very demeaning "It's business not personal" comments. Hope that Bill and Michael did not lose too much sleep over an issue that they had absolutely no control over. Seems that Bill/attorney and Michael/adminsistrator checked with the local board of election to see what the legalities were of replacing Crawford when he gave up his seat. They were both told that the replacement would have to run for reelection at next election which would be this November. The state board of election then on June 6, 2007, the day that people could start signing up to run, handed down a ruling saying that these seats were for the full term ie in Summerfield case 4 years. Ms Strickland accused the administrator and attorney of not doing their job. Not properly advising the council "The attorney and adminstrator should have checked with the state board of election" although each county determines the process and the state did not make the ruling until several months after the seat had been filled. I guess the attorney should have also checked with the President and the Pope to have really covered all their bases. The bottom line is John Wray will serve the remainder of the unexpired term of Crawford. He was a good pick for the 6 month seat and he is a good pick for 2.5 years. The council did their homework and they picked the best candidate available at the time. |
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StewartM Member
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Amen Jane ....Don't shoot the messenger |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy agrees. In my opinion, Strickland's baseless attack on Mr Hill's an' Mr Brandt's professionalism and motives, leads us again to question Strickland's professionalism and motives instead. Mr Hill and Mr Brandt should be commended for all the good work they've done and continue to do. The issue was not one of incompetence or deceipt on their part as Strickland so badly wants to make it appear, but a reversal of the BOE's interpretation of the rules, something neither Hill nor Brandt had any control over. All they could do was abide by the ruling, a concept which may be beyond Ms. Strickland's comprehension, judging from her past performance. Let's not forget why the seat was vacant to begin with. If Strickland wants to denounce unprofessionalism and improper motives, she missed a wide open window of opportunity in the days before Crawford quit! Mr Wray is a good man and a good choice for councilman. His character and dedication to doing the best he can for the town is beyond question. Summerfield is lucky he has agreed to serve for the next two years. He's no quitter! |
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GRITS Member
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Mr. Wray is suitable for the remainder of the position, and Ms. BS needs to remember she was a factor that unanimously agreed he fill the position. So what if there was a loop hole, but that is no reason to ask Mr. Wray to resign. The decision has been made---It is time to come together has a community and put all this negative/bitter behavior aside and move on. So can anyone tell me about the athletic committee that was motioned and passed? What exactly is council wanting, and how is the committee going to be appointed? |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Yep.... I'm havin' a hard time decidin' who my hero for last night is..... Bill Hill? Bob Williams? Dena Barnes??? What an exciting meeting! There was a reporter there who I hadn't seen before. Her eyes were as big as saucers when the fireworks started.... Didn't see Mr. Seals. He's gonna hate that he missed this one! The drama started when Mayor Brown started to explain to the public about the new developments pertaining to John Wray's seat.... As he was speaking, a citizen who had come in an hour and a half late (most likely from an Illinois taxpayer's meeting) staggers up to the front of the room in front of the council and lays a "speakers from the floor" form in front of Brown. It was obviously done to fluster him but he handled it well.... Told her the speaker's portion was over. I'm sure she'll now spout off and whine about it because "THEY NEVER LET HER SPEAK". Bill Hill said something like "I'm sorry Mayor Brown, could you repeat that last part? I was distracted!" LOL That was GREAT!!!! Big hero points for that one Bill!!!! So then, John Wray spoke and said "I don't really know what I can do about this situation" and Strickland interjected "YOU COULD RESIGN" to which Williams quickly replied "SO COULD YOU!" to Strickland! Big Hero Points for Williams!!! John went on to say that he's not a quitter and intends to serve for the remainder of Crawford's term. He automatically gets hero points because of the location of his seat at the council table, but he gets even more for being willing to serve with the likes of her for 2 more years. Strickland then reads her speech and says that "No one gets a pass on this one" (whatever that means) and she thinks that in the interest of fairness, Wray should resign effective on election day and let the voters choose who they want to fill the seat. She rambles on about how more people would have applied had they known it was a two year term and get this......she would NOT have voted the way she did (for John) had she known it was for the full 2 year term. Is she saying that she didn't try to choose THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB? Was she playing more of her political games when she voted for Wray? hmmmmmm....... I think the remaining council members aren't upset about it because they do feel that they chose one of the best people for the job, whether it be for 6 months or for 2 1/2 years. Then Strickland goes on to say that her beef with Michael B and Bill Hill wasn't personal, even though in her speech she said, "Seriously, just how many lawyers and administrators does it take to misinterpret the term "notwithstanding" in a Town Charter? Nobody gets a pass on this one as far as I am concerned" Dena spoke and said that there were 3 seats that were going to be vacant in the fall and that the citizens could choose to change the entire make up of the council if they choose to do so. She said that she was offended at the way Strickland belittled Hill and Brandt and said that she appreciated the work they'd done. Strickland then INTERRUPTED Dena in the middle of her speech to make a lame attempt to rebut Dena's statement. So Dena brought out an email from Strickland and proceeded to read a portion of it for the record.... "I do not feel you and Michael "did all you could" to insure accurate information to Council and the public in March. How do you defend that inaction?" Seems that as Jane stated above, Strickland's upset that they didn't check with the State Board in addition to the local board of elections...According to that letter from the Gilbert fellow at the board of elections, I don't think it would have made any difference if they had checked there.... Bill, I sure hope you and Michael don't lose anymore sleep over this issue. It looks like the rest of the council has your back on this one. GEEZ!
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Cracker Jax Member
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Grits, they decided to look into forming a VOLUNTEER athletic committee. Strickland was against it. Something about the roles of committees not being defined. In my opinion, she doesn't like for the town to form new committees because that generates more interest and therefore more people will see how she behaves. I think it can only be a good thing. |
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Shamu Member
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I went to the board of elections on Monday myself, and had a conversation with Mr. Gilbert myself (he came out and greeted me and shook my hand too). And what he told me was that our town leadership had misread our own documents. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Interesting that he didn't say that in his letter....... |
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Shamu Member
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Yeah. interesting. I suppose anyone who is interested can go talk to Gilbert themselves. |
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GRITS Member
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FatPappy wrote: Let's not forget why the seat was vacant to begin with. If Strickland wants to denounce unprofessionalism and improper motives, she missed a wide open window of opportunity in the days before Crawford quit! Thanks Pappy for reminding us. Now that election time is in 4 months, I think it is ever so important to remind the public of why Crawford resigned--unethical actions by a councilman. Rumor is he is running again. Strickland is guilty of the same issues, publicly attacking volunteers--demeaning their character. Remember-she has tried to kill the park not once but twice!. Going behind the back's of her fellow councilman/women, writing a letter to kill the park funding on a town letterhead--after it was voted on to pass obtaining funding. Now, she is doing her best to kill the ballfields. Mr. Wray did not agree to build the ballfields on the 220 site, but his positive attitude to help do everything possible to ensure the safety of our kids on 220 is encouraging and represents a positive futuristic outlook, and certainly portrays his dedicated character to the town. I must say his positive attitude helped change my own opinions regarding this site.....I wanted ballfields, I have the potential to get them----I will make it work. Strickland needs to adapt to the decisions and find a way to make it work. She has two more years with Wray! |
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Hairbrush Member
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I am excited about John Wray serving 2 more years. I think he adds a lot to the council. He is very straight forward and fair. I hope he will help the council get some great stuff done. If he resigned then the council would just have to accept applications again and go through the whole process again. The people still would not get to vote on that seat. If anyone should resign it should be Becky Strickland. I am still so mad about the letter she wrote to the grant people. And the way she handles herself in the meetings is so unprofessional. I know she thinks she representing the people who never get their voice heard, but I certainly wouldn't want her representing me. She isn't getting anything now. What is wrong with a little compromise? Just because you decide to be pleasant and to listen to all sides of an issue and to not pout when you don't get your way doesn't mean you aren't being a strong woman or standing up for what you believe in. But it might make people want to listen to you and maybe take time to get to know you instead of immediately turning you off. Okay I will get off my soapbox and get back to work. |
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FatPappy Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Plumb weird. I hope he didn't miswrite his own document! |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Shamu wrote: Yeah. interesting. I suppose anyone who is interested can go talk to Gilbert themselves. So, Were you there to just ask about this issue or to put your name in the hat? (snicker) Mr Gilbert is a stand up individual and would not start a finger pointing match. This is another CC tactic to get crap started between people who have had a good relationship. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Hairbrush wrote: If he resigned then the council would just have to accept applications again and go through the whole process again. The people still would not get to vote on that seat. Hairbrush you are correct and that is the point that should be remembered. Even if John Wray were to resign at any point within the remainder of the residual of the 'Crawford term', Summerfield voters would still not have the opportunity to select his replacement. That task under law still falls to the Summerfield Town Council. Folks should recall that Stokesdale has had two vacancies on our council within the past 4 years so that we currently have two members serving on our council who were not elected by Stokesdale voters to those seats. (Powell Shelton has/had previously served on the STC but was appointed rather than elected to serve out the term of Councilman Berry while Bobby Richardson was appointed to serve out the remainder of the term of Councilman Vaughn). I'm guessing that unless the Town Charters provide language otherwise, that vacancies in local elected offices are determined by provisions of state law. I'm also guessing that local governments could also change their charters to provide for special elections rather than appointments to fill interim vacancies, which is the case in some locales. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Hairbrush wrote:If he resigned then the council would just have to accept applications again and go through the whole process again. The people still would not get to vote on that seat. Correct me if I am wrong. The Summerfield Council cannot just make changes to the charter at a stroke of a pen or at certain Council members wishes. I has to go to the State Legislators. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: Correct me if I am wrong. The Summerfield Council cannot just make changes to the charter at a stroke of a pen or at certain Council members wishes. I has to go to the State Legislators. Charter amendments can in fact be made by either a majority of the Town Council OR by approval of a citizen initiative, which is placed on the ballot and approved by a majority of voters. Neither method requires participation or sanction by the NC General Assembly. A charter amendment was initiated by citizens in Stokesdale a few years ago to change the way our Mayor is elected, and was subsequently approved by a vote of 89% to 11% in opposition. It requires a petition of signatures from registered voters equal to 10% of the registered voters, and then it must be placed on the ballot no sooner than 60 days nor no more than 120 days from the petition validation by the Guilford County BOE. A charter amendment cannot have the effect of being 'retroactive' or applied retroactively, so that even if a charter amendment was made through either method, it would only effect future vacancies and not the 'Crawford' vacancy. Last edited on Jul 11th, 2007 07:42 pm by Jim Flynt |
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GRITS Member
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FatPappy wrote: It's still early yet, I reckon, but does anybody have any news to share on who might be plannin' to run for council this time? I understand possibly all the current council plans to run again with the exception of Collins who ain't decided yet. Pappy, I noticed on the BOE website this morning that George C. Waldrep, Jr. has filed to run for Mayor. Anyone have anything to share on Mr. Waldrep? Of course Brown has filed, but no other names in the hat for this position yet. And so far, Williams is the only candidate that has filed for town council seat. Last edited on Jul 12th, 2007 12:14 pm by GRITS |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged, Grits. Pappy ain't got much to offer right now. I reckon we'll see as we get into it. I b'lieve they got till the end o' next week to file? |
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Skiddles Member
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Thanks everyone for keeping us up to speed with all the Summerfield happenings. It sounds like it was business as usual, with personal attacks by you-know-who. I am glad Mr. Wray is in for another 2 years. He is good for Summerfield. He is a stand-up guy that helps our town become something to be proud of and not an embarrassment, like some. Great to hear the good news! |
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Skiddles Member
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Mr. Williams has earned my "Hero of the Day Award." His suggestion seemed to be the best one made that night! |
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GRITS Member
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As of 2:30pm 07/17/07 the GC BOE now are showing Doug Canavello and Alicia Flowers for Town Council. I am not SURPRISED!!!! EVERYBODY PLEASE TELL US MORE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS. BS is very supportive of these two. I know who I am NOT voting for!!!!! Last edited on Jul 17th, 2007 08:23 pm by GRITS |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Grits, I heard that two others signed up at town hall today. Williamson ( I forgot his first name...Adrian maybe? He's been seen in a lot of huddles with Ms. Dunham) and Rich Lovett have thrown their hats in the ring. If I remember correctly, Rich Lovett was level headed. I will have to do more research on him though.....
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Jim Flynt Member
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Several years ago (approximately 1998), I met Doug Canavello when a family farm and lake over in the Reidsville area of Rockingham County was severely polluted by a large plastics manufacturing company over there. Doug came to our attention as the President and owner of Pyramid Environmental Company in Greensboro (the name may have changed since then), service providers and consultants for environmental assessments, testing, investigation, and remediation. Doug came to us highly recommended by several of the larger and leading law firms in Greensboro as well as from several friends and land owners who had gone through the environmental remediation process for various and sundry reasons. I personally worked closely with Doug for over a year on a frequent and regular basis and found him to be extremely intelligent, absolutely professional, well spoken, knowledgeable about growth and development issues, and on a personal level, highly likable and easy to get along with. I found Doug to be extremely reasonable, logical as well as practical, and moderate in listening to both sides before making a decision. These are vital traits for leadership and reflect this man's essential goodness and outstanding character. Through Doug and his efforts, which included testing, test wells and remediation discussion and negotiations with NCDENR (where he was very well respected), Doug Canavello was largely responsible for our lawyers being able to force a clean-up of the pollution as well as obtain a nice settlement for my Mother for the damages inflicted upon our property by our corporate neighbor. While I know nothing about his 'politics', I do hold Doug in the highest regard and would willingly support him with my energies, financial support and vote were I a Summerfield resident. He would add great dimension and bring tremendous wisdom and experience to a community which sooner or later may face environmental challenges and the deleterious effects of sprawl and over development. You Summerfield folks need to take a close look at all of the candidates running for election over there this cycle and ask the tough questions of all of them. But I can assure you that Doug Canavello is not a political extremist by any definition and rest assured that he has and speaks an independent mind. A measured mind willing to look at all sides of an issue combined with a voice for moderation in any regard is what Doug would bring to the table of town government. I envy you folks in Summerfield, as I wish we had a few Doug Canavello's running for office over here in Stokesdale! You're tremendously lucky to have such a well qualified candidate running and offering to serve! Last edited on Jul 17th, 2007 11:20 pm by Jim Flynt |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Well Mom is up to her usual tricks. Be sure and read the letter she wrote in the Guilford North section of the Greensboro News and Record. Trying as usual to give us a black eye. This time she is picking to Michael Brandt and Bill Hill, two very dedicated and hard working town staff members. Wonder why she doesn't move back to that obviously perfect State she came from. Oh could it be that taxes are half what they are in Illinois? |
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GRITS Member
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Yeah, I read that this morning as well Jane. Another way to spout off her displeasure. I really enjoyed how she states that one Town Council member will NOT be elected and NOT be appointed for the two year term. Mr. Wray was in fact ELECTED by the present town council when Crawford resigned due to his insecurities of what the public really thought of him. For Strickland to outl-lash and request his resignation simply because he was not elected--and she was ELECTED. Then why did she ELECT WRAY.? I think I remember seeing her hand go up! I have to say I disagree as for her to say that BS was the ONLY person representing the town who spoke up for the people. She is not speaking for me---BS represents her group of concerned citizens including Dunham. Last edited on Jul 19th, 2007 01:48 am by GRITS |
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FatPappy Member
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Poor ol' soul, she sounded a little confused or somethin' in that letter. The process was legal and the seat's been filled by a better man. I don't see a problem. I see an improvement. Here's a link to the audio on the NWO site. That part whar the Mayor says "Ma'am!", that's her. http://www.nwobserver.com/newsfeed/?p=1766 Last edited on Jul 19th, 2007 03:13 pm by FatPappy |
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FatPappy Member
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Good coverage of this in the NWO Online, includin' an audio clip! Much obliged Sandra an' Patti! |
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macca Member
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Already got my NW Observer. Good editorial by Patti about the whole (current)) S'field TC issue. Seems to me this is pretty typical behavior by one council member, to accuse and belittle.... has cost the town more than one employee, legal representative, and how many volunteers? (That one is probably one we'll never know....) |
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macca Member
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Just listened to the audio of the portion of the S'field TC meeting about the appointment of Mr. Wray and the change in interpretation by the Bd of Elections. (Link is shown on homepage of NW Observer forum) Interesting.... Does Ms. Strickland always read a prepared statement when she has an issue? I personally think it is commendable that ALL TC members knew about this prior to the public meeting. I wonder if all town councils handle information so openly among all? |
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GRITS Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
I have not seen these names updated on the website yet. Are they still considering running? BTW--you probable already know, Don Wendelken is throwing his name back in the hat. |
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GRITS Member
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FatPappy wrote: Poor ol' soul, she sounded a little confused or somethin' in that letter. Great audio NWO---Dena gets brownie points this time. Mrs. Barnes stated it well! |
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FatPappy Member
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I'm sorry, Grits, could you repeat that last part? I was distracted. Hee hee! Ma'am! Seriously, I agree, Grits. Dena sounded good. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Grits, Williamson and Lovett picked up the application at Town Hall and left to have it notarized and to my knowledge they haven't turned them back in yet. Don't know if they reconsidered or not. I know at least one of them paid their 5 bucks though! As for Sandra's audio clip... GREAT JOB SANDRA!!!! I like how you included the part where Gail Dunham waddled up to the council table (interrupting Brown and distracting Hill). |
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GRITS Member
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New candidate: Peggy McPartlan for Town Council |
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lovettrp Member
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Yes, I have thrown my hat into the ring (Oh Brother!!). I am faced with a diverse and (for the most part) involved group of individuals that are seeking election to the three available seats on Summerfields Town Council. I will do my best to answer any questions anyone has for me. (I may be asking for it!). I can not promise anything other than being honest!! The reason for making that statement is that each topic facing the council is dynamic and changing daily. My job is to educate myself and be as informed as possible before I make my decision (That is the least I would expect from any elected official). I hope that discussing things with people the voters will get information that they need to make an informed decision. And I can not argue the decision of the residents in November. I hope everyone educated themselves on the candidates. If I am not the best person (in your opinion) please vote for the better person. That is your right... duty ... and responsibility! I do not intend to spend any money other than the $5.00 filing fee. I hope dialogue like this and conversations I have with people and my actions I take (or don't take) on the Zoning Board, Wilson Farm HOA board, and Guilford County Environmental Review board speak to the type of person I am. Good luck to all and let the adventure begin! Richard P. Lovett |
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lovettrp Member
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Grits... I am here to answer your questions!!! Please do all the research you need on me and the other candidates! Thank you for the level headed comment!! I try! Richard P. Lovett |
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GRITS Member
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lovettrp wrote: Yes, I have thrown my hat into the ring (Oh Brother!!). I am faced with a diverse and (for the most part) involved group of individuals that are seeking election to the three available seats on Summerfields Town Council. I will do my best to answer any questions anyone has for me. (I may be asking for it!). Thanks Mr. Lovett--words of encouragement. I like the part of being honest, that's what we need. Educate me but be honest. Glad you joined the race! |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree, Grits. That sounds good, Mr Lovett! Glad to see you out there! Good luck! By the way, I think your name's got good campaign slogan potential. "Summerfield: Lovett or leave it." Hee hee! Or maybe "Summerfield: Ya Gotta Lovett!" |
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BreBre Member
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Does anyone know if any conservatives are applying for the town council positions? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:53 am by Jim Flynt |
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BreBre Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: BreBre wrote:Does anyone know if any conservatives are applying for the town council positions? Conservative meaning: people not wanting to hike up the tax rate to maintain ballparks, community parks, and whatever else, people not wanting to sale every piece of property and build, build, build(like greensboro), people that want to budget our money and not waste it on one item, or several items that do not matter. |
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Shamu Member
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What a great definition of conservative that is Bre-Bre. I can assure you there are candidates that will fit that bill!! |
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GRITS Member
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The current council is doing a steady job maintaining the tax rate at it's current incredibly low rate with the addition of ballfields and the new park. It has already been budgeted in. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote: The current council is doing a steady job maintaining the tax rate at it's current incredibly low rate with the addition of ballfields and the new park. It has already been budgeted in. If, and that is a BIG IF, you like paying taxes that is! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:52 am by Jim Flynt |
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Shamu Member
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Sorry Grits, but no pass on that one. Our town is currently spending more than it takes in. There is an implied tax increase in the future, based on their current spending habits.. |
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GRITS Member
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and what is it? |
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Shamu Member
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What is what? |
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GRITS Member
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The implied future tax hike that you speak of. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Shamu, one of the things you will learn if you hang around here on the NWO Forum long enough, is that there are several anonymous posters who spout off and spew the 'company line' to defend, apologize for and otherwise try to prop up their relatives on the Summerfield Town Council who are guilty of the very things you and BreBre are discussing. That is why they post anonymously, so they can try and make it appear those rascals have more support from the community than reality dictates. Hang around here long enough, and you can and will figure them out. As the old Latin phrase says (especially true in Summerfield politics): Let The Buyer Beware. I agree with you Shamu that several candidates running in Summerfield this election cycle fit the bill of the very definition that BreBre has defined, and in the days ahead, the voting public needs to discern the conservatives from the tax and spend crowd. A new day is coming, and it is NOW. There is great truth in the old adage: The guilty dog always barks first. Watch who protests (the truth of) this post and the rest and the relationships should be easy to figure out. Last edited on Jul 21st, 2007 01:15 am by Jim Flynt |
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Shamu Member
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Here's an analogy. You have $1000 in the bank and you earn $100 a month. This month, you've spent $250 on some stuff you want. And you are buying some things that are going to cost you money to maintain. And you also have a wish list of more stuff you want. I would love for candidates to pledge they will not take our coffers any lower, and not raise taxes. I think that's a fair request. Some people complain that we shouldn't have a budget balance in the bank. I disagree. It is a source of income, and a sign of financial prudence. |
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Gestalt Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Shamu, one of the things you will learn if you hang around here on the NWO Forum long enough, is that there are several anonymous posters who spout off and spew the 'company line' to defend, apologize for and otherwise try to prop up their relatives on the Summerfield Town Council who are guilty of the very things you and BreBre are discussing. That is why they post anonymously, so they can try and make it appear those rascals have more support from the community than reality dictates. Hang around here long enough, and you can and will figure them out. I choose to be anonymous, and this Forum allowed folks to post under anonymous names. Therefore I am operating within the rules. If the rules change, then I will make a decision if I want to change. And I DO NOT have any relatives on the council. Good Concerned Citizen tactic Jim, how long have you belonged? If you do not like the gamerules here Jim, it is YOU who don't belong, go play in another sandbox. Have been reading many of your pontificating posts, and must say I do not share your high opinion of yourself. Shamu, don't assume Jim speaks for Summerfield's voters, he's in one of those other cities. Last edited on Jul 21st, 2007 12:36 am by Gestalt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Gestalt wrote: Good Concerned Citizen tactic Jim, how long have you belonged? I don't live in Summerfield. I don't vote in Summerfield. I am not a CC. My 'tactics' (generally shared by most political consultants) are my own. I simply speak truth as I know it. In this case, I do know it with regard to the relative connections between incumbents and anonymous posters. I can abide the rules. I am not trying to change the rules. I was merely pointing out the conflicts of interests that so many of the anonymous Summerfield posters have in trying to prop up or defend incumbents who are actually their relatives. I more or less sort of figured that you were already smart enough to see that Gestalt without my suggestions for other more recent posters. Last edited on Jul 21st, 2007 12:45 am by Jim Flynt |
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Shamu Member
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Gestalt, I sort of like the anonymous aspect too. Do you have an opinion regarding possible conservative candidates for Town Council? |
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Gestalt Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: I simply speak the truth as I know it. Thought you called the "truth" a "value judgement"? forget that post? I doubt you are the sole source of "truth" in these Northwest Towns. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Gestalt wrote: I doubt you are the sole source of "truth" in these Northwest Towns. I don't recall having ever laid claim to that proposition, which of course, would be ridiculous. |
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macca Member
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Shamu wrote:Here's an analogy. You have $1000 in the bank and you earn $100 a month. This month, you've spent $250 on some stuff you want. And you are buying some things that are going to cost you money to maintain. Over in Stokesdale we have a TC with money in the bank, running the town on interest from that money, providing a water system for part of the town (with plans to expand the service area) and additional law enforcement without charging taxes, yet they get criticized for that. |
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BreBre Member
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Shamu wrote: What a great definition of conservative that is Bre-Bre. I can assure you there are candidates that will fit that bill!! I can't wait to see who that is |
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BreBre Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Shamu wrote:What a great definition of conservative that is Bre-Bre. I can assure you there are candidates that will fit that bill!! Thanks Jim |
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GRITS Member
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I like the ability to post anonymous as well. Why does one have to disguise themselves and be accused of nepotism? Can't a poster have a right in their own decision making without having to be accused of relatives in government. The poster does not inflate the population to gain numerical support for a particular individual. How do we know that we are not participating in a conversation with a potential candidate for town council? How do we know when a real name is thrown out there in cyber space to communicate--that that is an actual person? Point is--it does not matter. If a anonymous candidate wants to blog to do political campaigning, or a citizen wants to find out more using an anonymous name and that's how he/she feels comfortable investigating the wants of the people and honesty comes with it--so be it. Thanks Gestalt! |
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Shamu Member
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macca wrote: Shamu wrote: I am interested in hearing how they have been so successful!! |
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LottieDottie Member
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Will there be some sort of "community meeting" for the citizens of Summerfield to get a chance to question the candidates that are running for office this election year? I want to KNOW what the candidates THINK, what they're for, what they're against. LottieDottie |
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GRITS Member
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macca wrote: Shamu wrote: Thanks Macca--I was wondering how Stokesdale did it. Nice info to know. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:50 am by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:51 am by Jim Flynt |
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LottieDottie Member
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Call Town Hall, they will furnish you with all the candidates names, possibly their phone numbers and email addresses. They WANT YOUR VOTE, they will talk to you. LottieDottie |
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FatPappy Member
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There are some who think taxes are never good. I can understand that. There are some who think taxes are a necessary evil. I can see their point too. There are some, like me, who fall somewhere in between, and think some things like parks and ballfields are worth spending money on, and a low tax rate like the one we have now is entirely reasonable. But I think we need to go beyond taxes to get at the real problem. Taxes and other issues are all things reasonable people can talk about and reach some measure of consensus on if we all allow for some give and take. The big danger I see to Summerfield's future is the unreasonable, our-way-or-nothing stance we've seen some people take. The real danger comes from those people who are very comfortable spreading and endorsing lies to get their way. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Historically the NWO has hosted a candidates forum to talk directly to the candidates, right here on this forum. The participation has been quasi-successful, but I personally have really enjoyed the interchange with those candidates that have participated. Let's hope this election will be the same. |
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FatPappy Member
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I hope we do have a candidates forum. It's always a big help to me. By the way, I hate to break it to you town council members, but we ain't related. Unless one of you wins the lottery an' wants to adopt a lovable ol' coot! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: I honor diversity of opinion and dissent from those who suggest that there may be a better way. We should exalt those who are not afraid to ask the tough questions and ask why not or have you thought about other possibilities? They are the true leaders in our Northwest communities. Not those who go along simply to get along. I totally agree with point #1, diversity is positive. However we part on point #2. There is one female TC member in Summerfield who opposes everything for the sake of opposing it. A real "CAVE" citizen. Citizens Against Virtually Everything It's obvious she is systematically trying to destroy Summerfield, is grossly unprofessional in her behavior, most prominently in the last TC meeting. THAT folks, is NOT leadership, it is bullying, and undermining. A person who boasts she doesn't read the local media, and isolates herself from all except those that align with her, is not a leader. (Sounds like George Bush, but it's not) |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy totally agrees, Steve. Well said. Gestalt, they're a-movin' too fast fer ol' Pappy. I meant to give you a big ol' Yee Haw a ways back but I'm just now gettin' to it. Well said. |
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LottieDottie Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Historically the NWO has hosted a candidates forum to talk directly to the candidates, right here on this forum. I was hoping for a more "up close and personal" meeting/forum with the candidates. Possibly at the community center. LottieDottie |
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Steve Adkins Member
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LottieDottie wrote: Steve Adkins wrote:Historically the NWO has hosted a candidates forum to talk directly to the candidates, right here on this forum. Lottie If you attend the next several TC meetings in Summerfield, the candidates are sure to be rubbing flesh with the constituents. Frankly I'll be rubbing harder flesh with those that have attending TC meeting before they got interested in running for office, and have shown some interest in their community. Somebody called it "submarine" candidates, those that surface only when running for office......I don't get too enthusiastic about. |
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Super Moderator Super Moderator
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It is fine to debate and even disagree but I want to ask everybody to make sure that their postings remain civil. Some recent comments are pushing the envelope. |
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LottieDottie Member
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Jim, I agree with you "a new day is coming". Summerfield is listening and they will speak at the polls this year. LottieDottie Jim Flynt wrote: Shamu, one of the things you will learn if you hang around here on the NWO Forum long enough, is that there are several anonymous posters who spout off and spew the 'company line' to defend, apologize for and otherwise try to prop up their relatives on the Summerfield Town Council who are guilty of the very things you and BreBre are discussing. That is why they post anonymously, so they can try and make it appear those rascals have more support from the community than reality dictates. Hang around here long enough, and you can and will figure them out. |
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BreBre Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Jim Flynt wrote:I honor diversity of opinion and dissent from those who suggest that there may be a better way. We should exalt those who are not afraid to ask the tough questions and ask why not or have you thought about other possibilities?They are the true leaders in our Northwest communities. Not those who go along simply to get along. I would like to say I am NOT associated with any group that has formed, nor do I want to be. That being said, if some people in Summerfield didn't have Becky Strickland to pick on, they would pick on someone else. There will ALWAYS be someone OR something to complain about. You cannot please everyone. That's life. Becky Strickland is conservative I believe and I like the fact that she does speak her mind. We need more people on the council like that. Some people get afraid when they see a woman taking charge. I think this forum opened the eyes of a lot of people in Summerfield and this will cause more people to get involved in the community. The election this year is going to be exciting, things are already getting stirred up! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Super Moderator wrote: It is fine to debate and even disagree but I want to ask everybody to make sure that their postings remain civil. Some recent comments are pushing the envelope. Awww Mom Or is it.......Awww Dad ?? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Some people get afraid when they see a woman taking charge. The last time I viewed the TC membership behind the table, Becky was not the only one of the female persuasion. People get offended when elected officials in positions of authority abuse that authority. Becky is highly abusive, and has given back nothing to the people that elected her but........?? Nifong abused his authority - what happened? Jim Black abused his authority - what happened? The list goes on, but you get the idea |
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FatPappy Member
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BreBre, I don't speak out against Strickland because she's a woman in power. I speak out against her because she has abused her power and the trust the voters gave her. I thought you said the forum opened your eyes. She doesn't lead, she bullies. Plain and simple. As a councilperson, we expect her to speak her mind. We also expect her to LISTEN. She does NOT have the right to try and destroy good people's reputations with her "lawyerly" innuendo and "facts" off the internet. She does NOT have the right to go behind council's back to undermine their decisions. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:49 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Steve Adkins wrote:Nifong abused his authority - what happened? Yep, we get the idea. Abuse of authority = Not good |
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S. Smith Moderator
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LottieDottie wrote: Steve Adkins wrote:Historically the NWO has hosted a candidates forum to talk directly to the candidates, right here on this forum. LottieDottie, We'd really be interested in specifically what you and other readers would like to see. The NWO has run many public forums in the past. Typically we invited all the candidates to attend, then we gave them an opportunity to introduce themselves and tell why they are running. We then asked them questions on a wide range of topics that they might have to address while in office (we came up with several ourselves but also invited readers to submit questions), giving each candidate a specified amount of time to answer the question. Each candidate was then given time to sum up their thoughts. Unfortunately we found that many people (other than the family and friends of the candidates themselves) didn't bother to show up. We also provided coverage of the forum in the paper. Another problem we realized is that it is difficult to ask each candidate enough questions for people to really get a sense of who they are and where they stand. That's particularly a problem when you have 8 or more candidates (although we did have a forum in Summerfield probably 6 years ago that had pretty good attendance). Just to illustrate the math, we might each candidate an opportunity to introduce themselves and tell why they're running (around 2 min.), then ask each of them, say 4 questions and give them 90 sec. to respond. We'd then ask each candidate a couple of questions that were submitted by people in the audience (1 min. response time), then give them a 2-min. summation period at the end. We had a timer and strictly adhered to time limits. Adding in time to explain the rules of the forum and actually pose the questions, with 10 candidates, that would be about a 2 1/2-hr forum. Of course, some people complained that a short inroduction and summation and 5-6 questions was not enough to get a real sense of how each candidate felt on the issues, while others complained that the forum was too long (we've found that most people will not stay for any more than 2 hours). For probably the last 8 years, we've had a full election section in our paper around the end of October where we introduce the candidates, print their photo and allow them to tell a little about themselves (age, political experience, community or civic involvement, why they are running for office, etc.) We have also variously asked them a few questions and allowed them to respond in print. Of course, we are do have space constraints, and we also cover 3 towns. This year, there are 3 council candidates in Oak Ridge, 8 in Stokesdale, 2 for mayor in Summerfield and 11 for council. That's a total of 24 candidates. (I guess fortunately for us this year there are no county commissioner or school board races, because we also cover them.) Then we came up with the idea for an online forum right here. That way, people could ask any questions they chose, either to all candidates who wanted to participate or to a particular candidate, and the candidate's responses could be as long or as short as they chose. We generally let these forums go on for about a week. Neither the candidates nor the citizens had to leave home and everyone could ask questions and read responses at their leisure, without actually having to be present. That means if you're a morning person and want to pose a question a 6 a.m., a candidate would have the leisure of not responding until maybe when they got home from work that evening. In addition, if someone was suffering from insomnia at 3 a.m., they could catch up on the questions and answers then. We are certainly open to suggestions. We have long been committed to doing our best to educate citizens on each candidate and issue. If you or any of our readers has a suggestion on how we might better accomplish this, we'd be glad to entertain the idea. |
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FatPappy Member
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I have found the online candidates forum to be very informative. It gives everybody a chance to work it into their schedule and go back later to see what others have said. If y'all, or anybody else, puts on a real live event, I'd certainly go to that too! There's something to be said for seeing candidates in person. |
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GRITS Member
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I see STC recently invested $2mil in a CD at 5.25%. What does the town do with this? |
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GRITS Member
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FatPappy wrote: BreBre, I don't speak out against Strickland because she's a woman in power. I speak out against her because she has abused her power and the trust the voters gave her. I thought you said the forum opened your eyes. Her authority also does not give her the right to falsely accuse good volunteers reputation's or announce citizen's hardship whether it be public record or not. This to me whether she is titles herself as councilwoman or taxpaying citizen still does not give her the right to destroy organizations that have benefited the youth for over fifty years. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being conservative, and she is not the only conservative out there. This was one political tactic that got her into office, the people trusted her and thought she would be a positive influence to the town. I don't care that she is a outspoken woman in power--I would even be speaking against her if she wore pants as well and bullied the public as she does. |
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JamesAttaway Member 
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The Interest is normaly reinvested and also used as income for the general fund. Another way of keeping the Town Tax free. |
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macca Member
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I agree, GRITS. I don't think it has anything to do with gender. Unfortunately for Ms. Strickland, even when she has a proposal that might have merit, her attitude and history cloud how people perceive it, so I think that people tend to look for ulterior motives. It also seems that she is particularly critical and comes across as mean-spirited when something happens that she doesn't like. This doesn't represent the town of Summerfield well, and I would think it discourages some from being involved more in support of the town. Citizens, "concerned" or not, can make their point without running other people down. I hope that the large field of candidates means that others want to try to make a positive difference for Summerfield. |
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GRITS Member
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The on-line forum not only will help the voters learn of their candidates, but can only benefit the group that has decided to run as well. I think some that have decided to run are not really up to date on alot of events occurring and they may decide this is not the time to jump into such a fiasco. I do not want to discourage them at all. It is their decision to want to take on such a task, I certainly want to hear their views correcting some of the issues. I just want more citizens to get involved with the discussions on the forum. Mixed opinions -- and brain storming does eventually lead to something positive. |
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GRITS Member
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JamesAttaway wrote: The Interest is normaly reinvested and also used as income for the general fund. Thanks James nice to know. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Grits the Town is required by State law to maintain a certain fund balance and right now I don't remember what it is but 2 or 3 million for our town sticks in my mind. If the Town spends below the requirement then the State can come in and manage the Town. I think in the current budget with the proposed expenditures the budge will drop to $5million. |
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GRITS Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Grits the Town is required by State law to maintain a certain fund balance and right now I don't remember what it is but 2 or 3 million for our town sticks in my mind. If the Town spends below the requirement then the State can come in and manage the Town. I think in the current budget with the proposed expenditures the budge will drop to $5million. Interesting! |
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JamesAttaway Member
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GRITS wrote: The on-line forum not only will help the voters learn of their candidates, but can only benefit the group that has decided to run as well. Grits, Very well said. I have been asking(for years)for people to attend Council meetings,committee meetings etc. But only a faithful few attend on a regular basis. People need to make their Ideas and opinions known. |
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JamesAttaway Member
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Grits when I answered your question about investments , I was of course talking about Stokesdale TC. when I mentioned no taxes. |
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GRITS Member
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JamesAttaway wrote: Grits when I answered your question about investments , I was of course talking about Stokesdale TC. when I mentioned no taxes. I realized that, just thought it would be beneficial for others to know what else can be done as far town funding and expenditures. Any info helps, Summerfield and Stokesdale were at one time close entities and not enemies. I do not imply the two towns are enemies now either & do not wish them to be, the communities are so close in proximity and people do have affiliations--your knowledge will greatly benefit others. Thanks for your clarification. |
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JamesAttaway Member
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I hope all three towns are still friends, really no reason not to be.I have worked in the past, with representatives from both towns on various projects. I am proud to be friends with people from all around. I envision working with Summerfield and Oak Ridge to provide things that would be hard to provide as separate entities, but would be possible for the three towns as a joint venture, a library could be one example. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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JamesAttaway wrote: I hope all three towns are still friends, really no reason not to be. Jim, thanks for that comment. I really think we have three wonderful towns here which we are very blessed to have. Every week in the NWO, I see a balanced reporting on the accomplishments of the residents in all three towns, which reinforces the old adage that "people are people" no matter where they lay their heads at night. Thanks for joining this forum, we appreciate you being here !!! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Grits the Town is required by State law to maintain a certain fund balance and right now I don't remember what it is but 2 or 3 million for our town sticks in my mind. If the Town spends below the requirement then the State can come in and manage the Town. I think in the current budget with the proposed expenditures the budge will drop to $5million. Jane, I'm not sure, but I'm thinking that state law requires a percentage, something like the town has to keep 6 or 8 percent of funds in reserve. I will look at the spending ordinance that the council just passed when I get to the office tomorrow, but I think it says the town will instead keep 15 percent reserved. Summerfield and the other local towns have way, way over the state requirement. As I recall, this year's budget will spend about $3 million, leaving a fund balance of $6.5 million. |
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GRITS Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Well Mom is up to her usual tricks. Be sure and read the letter she wrote in the Guilford North section of the Greensboro News and Record. Trying as usual to give us a black eye. This time she is picking to Michael Brandt and Bill Hill, two very dedicated and hard working town staff members. Wonder why she doesn't move back to that obviously perfect State she came from. Oh could it be that taxes are half what they are in Illinois? I am sure most you have read Dena's rebuttal in the Guilford North section of the paper this morning. Again, she stated the actions of Dunham and Strickland well. More brownie points for Dena. Another councilwoman who speaks her mind but with great dignity. |
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lovettrp Member
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My Wife and I were brain storming about signs (if we even buy any). We came up with... SUMMERFIELD TOWN COUNCIL Gotta "LOVETT" Get's the point across and has some humor also! |
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lovettrp Member
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People have been asking about the candidates fiscal leanings (conservative vs. liberal). I would call myself a "practical conservative". Now to try to explain what that means...(big breath)! I believe government should endeavor to keep taxes as low as possible... I can personally say that I do not know of a single person who likes higher taxes; however, government must pay for the services that the community has expressed they want. Everyone must realize that taxes are a direct reflection on the services the government provides. This is why people must realize that with every decision (new ball parks, municipal buildings and the like) there are associates short and long term costs. I must say, any federal/state/local government takes a lot of heat for raising taxes (they rarely get credit for lowering them) when they have to maintain/supply services that the community previously indicated that they wanted (now that may be an point of argument for some ... but not my point). How does the elected body know what the community wants? Other than talking to them directly? The council must educate themselves and listen to the community. One great way, I believe, is the creation of the Comprehensive Plan in Summerfield (now in its development stages). This will better guide both the zoning board & boards of assessment along with the Town Council in making better (more informed) decisions. They will have a better view of what the community wants by drawing from the decisions of the community through consensus. (I am sure this statement will also draw fire from some but short of having a referendum on every decision on every topic and expenditure, it is a good guideline and reflection of the communities visions - at that time). Everyone must remember that these plans (and the current services that the community provides) can change!! That is why ongoing communication with the community is necessary. As the community grows and the demographics change so should the vision. Also involvement is crucial... if people are not constructively involved, the members of council can not be adequately informed. If there is anything I want to come out of this election is I want more residents of Summerfield to become involved...I hope everyone will get a little involved at some level... write letters (the old fashioned way of communicating), phone, e-mail and/or attend meetings. Each of these will allow for individuals to express their opinions and visions for the community. Constructive (not destructive or abusive) dialogue can educate and inform while expressing opinions and help build consensus. Throughout my limited career as an environmental geologist, I can say I probably have learned the most from people who disagree with me or have differing points of view. The important thing is not just to disagree with something but also try to provide a solution ... My father told me to "be part of the solution not part of the problem.... anyone can be part of the problem". Thanks Dad... great words of advise! Everyone, resister to vote... get educated on the candidates and vote for the most qualified candidate (in you opinion) in November! This is your voice! Please use it responsibly. |
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GRITS Member
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WELL SAID !! |
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FatPappy Member
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Well said indeed! Gotta Lovett! |
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Lilly Spears Member
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Hi Lilly, I wanted to explain that I just received a message (actually, it was a threat of litigation) from the publisher of a local newspaper site (hitherto referred to as "the site which shall not be named"), who was quite upset at some comments that were posted on our forum in reference to the timeliness of his site's news coverage, quality of photos, etc. In the interest of maintaining peace for the moment, at least, I think at this time it is simply best to remove all comments referencing this site which shall not be named, which is why your post, and the subsequent post of Jim Flynt's has been removed. Thanks for your understanding. Patti Stokes Last edited on Jul 24th, 2007 07:37 pm by EditorPS |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Last edited on Jul 24th, 2007 07:10 pm by EditorPS |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:12 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:The one thing I am comfortable in saying, is that if Bill Trevarrow were still over there as your town attorney, none of this mess and confusion over the length of the remaining term of the Crawford seat would have ever happened. Pappy agrees that Summerfield is lucky to have a fine feller like John Wray servin'. I agree that Bill Trevarrow is a fine feller too an' any town is lucky to have him workin' fer 'em. The quote above, however, reaches what I consider a reckless conclusion that I would think only a lawyer should be comfortable makin' or not makin'. Furthermore, there wouldn't have been a seat to fill if Crawford had done his job. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:12 am by Jim Flynt |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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FatPappy wrote: Jim Flynt wrote: Bill Trevarrow did not just leave to go to another town to work. He was publicly chastised by Becky Strickland and this forced his hand to leave. I was embarrassed for the Town when people asked what was going on. Bill Trevarrow did a great job. Take a look and see who is left from that time. Only Micheal Brandt. Everyone else is gone due to the hate from this lady and her followers (concerned citizens). Is this what Summerfield has become since the last election? I remember a loving town where neighbors cared about each other. When someone got into trouble the people felt bad for them and helped out. Now it gets exploited and a conspiracy theory formed. Is it morally correct to put a scarlet letter on someone for their downfall? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:13 am by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:14 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:FatPappy wrote:Jim Flynt wrote: Well, I think you're makin' way too much out of my comments an' missin' the point. I was merely questionin' your qualifications to be comfortable makin' the bold conclusion you made. Whether or not one lawyer or another would give a certain opinion in a specific case at a specific time is something I think should be left to lawyers to make. |
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lovettrp Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Nor, had the information been provided correctly from the start, would the outcome of the election by a majority of the town council members of John Wray changed. Point of clarification: The council appointed Mr. Wray and I believe he received unanimous approval I agree they did a fine job in their duties of selecting the most qualified person for the job (especially considering the rapidly approaching budget deadline and the need for budgeting experience). From what I have seen he takes the job very seriously. |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree. I think John Wray was the best choice. BB, I agree with your comments too. Well said. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Jim Flynt wrote: One has to remember that the Town of Stokesdale has had two vacancies on our Town Council within the past 4 years, and in the process of our town council making the appointments to fill these two positions, they were guided by the legal advice of the Stokesdale Town Attorney, Bill Trevarrow. Bill did not miss the fact that both of these vacancy appointments would serve out the remaining complete terms of the underlying seat the former two council members were elected to serve. We did not have a commotion over here based on incorrect or erroneous advice from legal council over county and state election laws. My understanding is that the problem came about when Summerfield changed their charter so that council members serve 4-year staggered terms instead of all seats being up for election every 2 years. I believe the thought behind that was that it would be extremely disruptive in trying to run the town if most or all of the council was unseated because of the "learning curve" where it takes new council members time to get up to speed. I believe Jane Doggett and maybe Mike Stewart were on the council then, so maybe they can give some more background on this. The Summerfield charter said anyone appointed would serve the remainder of the term. With 2-year terms, that would mean the same as they would serve until the next election. When they changed to 4-year terms, serving the remainder of the term and serving until the next election no longer meant the same thing. At that time, they didn't change the wording of the charter where it talks about filling unexpired terms. As far as I know, Stokesdale has always had 4-year terms. So I believe when Fred Berry was apointed in late Nov. 2005 to fill Anthony Vaughn's term (which expired in 2007 and which Powell Shelton was later appointed to fill when Berry resigned) and when Bobby Richardson was appointed in Jan. 2006 to fill Randy Jones's council seat (which expired in 2007), there were no elections in the meantime, so regardless of the charter wording, there wouldn't have been an issue such as what happened in Summerfield. |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged, Sandra. |
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GRITS Member
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I just want to know, if Alicia Flowers had been the unanimous vote to fill the Crawford seat, would Strickland, Flowers and Dunham be making such a boisterous request for Wray's resignation? Would the three participants be content with the decision and let the issue stand and allow Flowers to fill the term? I strictly mention Flowers since this is who BS nominated. Instead of this old news circulating and as to why the circumstance happened, I would rather hear of more corrective comments, especially from council but the citizens as well, as to if this error ever happened again, conflicts such as this can be eliminated. Does the town charter need to be rewritten? Last edited on Jul 25th, 2007 06:20 pm by GRITS |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:15 am by Jim Flynt |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I'm not a rocket scientist but even I knew that Grits meant, would they be calling for Flowers' resignation had Flowers been the one who had been appointed to the seat that Wray now holds. Last edited on Jul 26th, 2007 12:56 am by Cracker Jax |
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GRITS Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:09 am by Jim Flynt |
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Super Moderator Super Moderator
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Several of the last comments have been edited. Please remain civil to other forum participants. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Dern I'm glad someone else has the SM job. Mister........er Miss.......er Yer SM Honor, your doin' a fine job !! Y'all behave !! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:10 am by Jim Flynt |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Sandra to answer your question. When I went to my first school at the League for new council people there was a Town, Emerald Isle I think that had had all their council people voted off that year so they had a whole new council. Dena and I talked about it at the time that the same thing could happen in Summerfield and that just didn't make sense. Then after I was on the council for 2 years and realized that it took a good 6 months at least to learn the job and then you had to start running after a year and and a half I brought it up to the council. Bill Trevorro advised we had to go to 4 year terms in order to stagger the terms. Bill Peterson absolutely bet me the refferendum would not fly and the rest is history. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Sandra to answer your question. When I went to my first school at the League for new council people there was a Town, Emerald Isle I think that had had all their council people voted off that year so they had a whole new council. Dena and I talked about it at the time that the same thing could happen in Summerfield and that just didn't make sense. Then after I was on the council for 2 years and realized that it took a good 6 months at least to learn the job and then you had to start running after a year and and a half I brought it up to the council. Bill Trevorro advised we had to go to 4 year terms in order to stagger the terms. Bill Peterson absolutely bet me the refferendum would not fly and the rest is history. Thanks, Jane. Since the original post was on the last page, here's what Jane's referring to: My understanding is that the problem (with the election to fill the rest of Dwayne Crawford's council seat) came about when Summerfield changed their charter so that council members serve 4-year staggered terms instead of all seats being up for election every 2 years. I believe the thought behind that was that it would be extremely disruptive in trying to run the town if most or all of the council was unseated because of the "learning curve" where it takes new council members time to get up to speed. I believe Jane Doggett and maybe Mike Stewart were on the council then, so maybe they can give some more background on this. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Those kinds of things happen all the time because the laws and rules are so complicated. Now whether it needs to be changed to the seat will be filled until the next election I don't know. Hopefully this is not something that will happen very often. But it is hard when voting to know what the person is going to be like until after they are seated. A lot of hidden agendas! |
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macca Member
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I guess that's why it's good to get as much info before the election as possible! Those public forums can be very helpful. Of course, the one that was on here last year was good, it's just that not everyone participated. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Those kinds of things happen all the time because the laws and rules are so complicated. Now whether it needs to be changed to the seat will be filled until the next election I don't know. Hopefully this is not something that will happen very often. But it is hard when voting to know what the person is going to be like until after they are seated. A lot of hidden agendas! Everyone please make an effort to contact the people running to get their story on where they stand on issues important to you. There are a lot of hidden agendas as Jane speaks of. Know the person who you vote for. Do the research and homework and you will pass the test. |
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FatPappy Member
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I'll be lookin' fer candidates who represent themselves and the issues responsibly and who understand the obligation to be responsible with the power they are asking the voters to give them. We need candidates who understand more than one issue and know more than one answer. Caveat venditor (let the SELLER beware) should be just as applicable at election time as Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware). Last edited on Jul 26th, 2007 01:08 pm by FatPappy |
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lovettrp Member
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Baseball Buddy wrote: DOGGETTJA wrote:Those kinds of things happen all the time because the laws and rules are so complicated. Now whether it needs to be changed to the seat will be filled until the next election I don't know. Hopefully this is not something that will happen very often. But it is hard when voting to know what the person is going to be like until after they are seated. A lot of hidden agendas! I could not agree more... as I said earlier... please educate yourselves and ask the hard questions! Make us (the candidates) think and prove ourselves worthy of the responsibility that you the voter will temporarily give to us. And then ...maybe ...just maybe you can gain the insight that you need to make an informed decision... start asking questions early because things will get more and more charged right before the November election |
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dw Guest
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Election time is close- For some who don't know who I am and what I stand for- go to my website http://www.electdonw.com. I pay close attention to this town, via minutes of the meetings in the NWO. Thanks, Don Last edited on Jul 27th, 2007 09:44 pm by |
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Gestalt Member
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dw wrote: Election time is close- For some who don't know who I am and what I stand for- go to my website http://www.electdonw.com. I pay close attention to this town, via minutes of the meetings in the NWO. Don How many Town Council meetings have you attended this year? How many since the night when John Wray was appointed? |
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Gestalt Member
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lovettrp wrote: I could not agree more... as I said earlier... please educate yourselves and ask the hard questions! Make us (the candidates) think and prove ourselves worthy of the responsibility that you the voter will temporarily give to us. And then ...maybe ...just maybe you can gain the insight that you need to make an informed decision... start asking questions early because things will get more and more charged right before the November election Same question, how many TC meetings have you attended this year? |
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LottieDottie Member
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Sandra, In response to your post of July 21st, thank you for responding to my post. It's great that the NWO offers several options to the citizens of Summerfield to become more informed regarding the upcoming election/candidates this year. The town forum on the internet sounds very interesting and the individual profiles of the candidates in your newspaper, is a good thing too. I personally prefer the public forum. If the NWO decides to present a public forum this year I would be willing to volunteer in any capacity needed. LottieDottie |
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EditorPS Administrator
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Lottie Dottie, We'll put you on the list of volunteers, and thanks for your offer to help! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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EditorPS wrote: Lottie Dottie, Gee Patti Can you tell us what the roles are before we go volunteerin' ?? Pappy & I would hate to see our "roles reversed" |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Me too Sandra. I would be glad to be involved if you do decide to have a public forum. I certainly understand your dilemma having participated in several of them with very few people showing up and most of the ones that did show up were family. Where would we be with out family? |
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FatPappy Member
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Steve Adkins wrote:Can you tell us what the roles are before we go volunteerin' ?? Pappy ain't got no reverse, just slow an' stop. Hee hee. Just let ol' Pappy know if I can do somethin' to he'p. I don't know how much them volunteerin' jobs pay, but in the spirit o' he'pin' a good cause, I'll do it fer free. |
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macca Member
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I'm sure these things are a lot of work, but are really appreciated by the people who attend. I know people who have been at the ones I've attended have made it clear they thought they were very well done and helpful. Maybe there would be groups in each community who would be willing to help, not only the night of a public forum (if the NW Observer decides to do one) but in getting the word out so lots of people would attend so they could learn more about potential leaders of their towns. |
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FatPappy Member
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You're right, Macca. I'm sure they're lots o' work, but they've always been a lot o' benefit to me an' I think lots o' people would benefit if they would just come out to 'em. Pappy just had a thought. (It was a painful an' traumatic experience, for which I recommend medication later.) What if we held the candidates forum one Saturday afternoon in the park, with a band an' barbecue an' such? Make it a community event! Also have candidates there to speak an' answer questions and mingle with the people. I'd go to such as that, an' I think a lot o' others would too. I bet we could find some sponsors an' volunteers. |
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JamesAttaway Member
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Pappy I think you are on to something! I was thinking of a less formal meeting of the candidates. Something where we could mingle one on one and get up close and personal with the electorate. |
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FatPappy Member
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JamesAttaway wrote:Pappy Much obliged, Mr Attaway. I like that more informal minglin' an' up close part of it, too. I wouldn't think such a event would need to be too elaborate either. Food an' music, just a little extry somethin' to get folks' attention. We already got a playground fer the young'uns. (I was hongry when I thought of it, so I naturally threw some food in the mix.) I'd also like to see a online forum. Folks could eat some cheese doodles an' listen to Louis Armstrong sing What a Wonderful World while they peruse the candidates forum too. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:07 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Mr Attaway, I reckon was thinkin' more of a Summerfield candidates forum at the Summerfield park when I thought of it. I reckon the model would work (or not) as well for each of the towns to do their own as they see fit. I don't really have much preference fer who or what would sponsor such a event, I just thought we needed somethin' fun to get the town to come out. Last edited on Jul 29th, 2007 05:42 pm by FatPappy |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:08 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy didn't take it that way, Jim ol' buddy. |
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darrelldawg Member 
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Jim , good buddy go back to sleep and leave those guys alone they can handle things now back to the race pass me another budwiser(yes jim I kow its spelled budweiser) bogitty boogity boggity |
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JamesAttaway Member
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Pappy, I was only endorsing the Idea as a good one, me and you both knew that! If you hear from Mike tell him I have a chicken and bacon biscuit! |
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macca Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:James, if you think about it, we already have a weekly forum for the Stokesdale candidates for office which meets every week of the year. Same time and same place. What? Where? When? |
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JamesAttaway Member
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MACCA, When I Figure it out I will let you Know! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:05 am by Jim Flynt |
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EditorPS Administrator
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Hi everyone, I do like the idea of sprucing up the candidates' forum a bit to make it more inviting to attend, and maybe even fun. The only concern I have about making it too festive and informal (as in, if we have food, a band and opportunities for one-on-one) is that some people wouldn't talk to all the candidates, rather only the ones they wanted to hear from. I would want to make sure that we had some structure so that you would hear each candidate speak, and guests would have opportunities to ask some questions. So a part of it would need to be structured, but refreshments and entertainment could be a great way to entice people and give them an opportunity to be educated at the same time. As for those of you who asked about volunteering -- the needs would depend upon how much we do beyond the forum itself. In the past, Sandra and I typically developed the candidate questions (we invited readers to submit questions in advance, but never received very many), made the index cards, figured out the timing, made charts to ensure that each candidate got the same amount of questions and in a fair order, secured a place, prepared light refreshements, set up tables, secured a microphone system, communicated with each candidate in advance as to what the format of the forum would be, answered any questions they had, and of course, promoted the event through the Northwest Observer. If we expand on this idea (which I'm all for), we would not only love to have help with any of the above-mentioned items, but also getting donations for refreshments, securing some kind of entertainment, promoting the event through other avenues in addition to our newspaper, etc. Typically we have held forums just a week or two before the election -- would we want to possibly do this earlier, say in late September, so that people can hear what the candidates have to say, and have opportunities to follow up and learn more in the weeks leading up to the election? Perhaps an earlier schedule would prompt people to start paying attention further in advance, rather than days prior to the election??? Your suggestions are appreciated, and so are your offers to help -- we'll take any and all that we can get. Last edited on Jul 29th, 2007 09:24 pm by EditorPS |
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FatPappy Member
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Pappy agrees about havin' structure, definitely. My main thought was just to liven things up to make it more attractive, more of a community event so more people would turn out. |
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FatPappy Member
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JamesAttaway wrote:Pappy, Much obliged, Mr A. Mebbe by the time ever'body gets done tweakin' it, it'll end up bein' a GREAT idee, however it turns out! If you got a chicken an' bacon biscuit, you'll definitely see Mr MIke 'fore I do. Hee hee! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:06 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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EditorPS wrote:Typically we have held forums just a week or two before the election -- would we want to possibly do this earlier, say in late September, so that people can hear what the candidates have to say, and have opportunities to follow up and learn more in the weeks leading up to the election? I like the idea of holdin' it in late September. Are we talkin' 'bout just one forum fer all the candidates or each town havin' one o' their own? I can see advantages an' disadvantages with both ways. |
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EditorPS Administrator
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Pappy, I think definitely one forum for each town. In Summerfield alone we have 8 candidates for regular council seats and 2 for mayor; in Stokesdale we have 11 candidates -- I just think there's too many candidates in each town to combine the two forums into one. In fact, that's a lot of candidates even when you hold a separate forum for each town. It definitely presents challenges as to how to give each candidate enough time to tell you anything in depth about themselves, where they stand on local issues, and to answer questions from guests. *(Please note correction to above -- there are 8 candidates in Stokesdale and 11 in Summerfield for regular council seats) Last edited on Jul 29th, 2007 11:35 pm by EditorPS |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:06 am by Jim Flynt |
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EditorPS Administrator
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Oops - good thing you've got my back, Jim. I got those two reversed -- there are, as you have pointed out, eight candidates in Stokesdale; there are 11 in Summerfield for regular council seats plus two for mayor. Thanks for catching that. |
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FatPappy Member
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One per town. Good deal. Just checkin', 'cause I was afeered we wouldn't have room fer all them Oak Ridgers clamorin' to see who to vote fer. Hee hee! |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: macca wrote:Jim Flynt wrote: So are you saying that ALL of the candidates for Town Council attend Stokesdale United Methodist Church and that ALL of the townspeople could go there every Sunday morning to ask them how they will vote on issues? I mean that isn't a real forum, but maybe you're saying that you think that is the only forum that counts here in Stokesdale.... |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:07 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Um, yeah... Anyway, as a basic format, maybe we could start with the candidates speakin' for x minutes each, then a question/answer session fer the remainder of the hour or two(?) After that, fire up the band, uncover the food, and let the minglin' begin. Sorta like listenin' to preachin', then dinner on the grounds. Candidates might want to set up their own tables with flyers an' what not. I'm real interested in hearin' what all these candidates have to say an' I'm especially interested in havin' as many voters there as possible. I think that's real important. O' course my main criterion is how well a candidate can speak with a mouthful o' food. That's how I weed out the amateurs. |
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EditorPS Administrator
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Pappy, I love the idea of having the candidates speak and then providing the refreshments and entertainment, in that order -- good thinkin! (I mean thinking!). A table for brochures and other candidate information -- absolutely! |
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JamesAttaway Member
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FatPappy wrote: Um, yeah... Fatpappy, You Know politico's can talk out both sides of the mouth.! |
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FatPappy Member
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JamesAttaway wrote:
Hee hee. Mebbe we should move the eatin' first on the agenda an' serve up somethin' that'll stick to the roofs o' their mouths so they cain't talk at all. We'll ask questions an' they can either nod yes, no, or make a run fer it. |
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lovettrp Member
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I have attended two since Mr. Wrays appointment - one was the night of his appointment. And all Zoning board meetings except June Last edited on Jul 30th, 2007 04:02 pm by lovettrp |
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lovettrp Member
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Last edited on Aug 2nd, 2007 10:57 pm by lovettrp |
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lovettrp Member
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Hello all! I would like to take a moment and explain my personal political "philosophy". This may give you some insight into me or it may cause you to discount me immediately as a viable candidate. I am not running against anyone! I am a candidate ... who's job right now is to explain my views and answer questions so the citizens of the community can become informed. I am not going to be a person (at least I will try my hardest not to be!) who gets into the personal destruction game (and if I do please call me on it... and I will either admit I was wrong or explain myself!). Every candidate should stick to the facts and their personal opinions/views on the issues without comparing themselves to their opponents... the comparison should be left to the voters and the voters alone! I understand that some people have "axes to grind" or political/personal agendas. I do not believe I have an agenda or political axes to grind ... except the agenda to represent Summerfield as a council member and be true and honest in my words and deeds. Sounds very Boy Scout of me... well I am (Eagle Scout actually)! I was raised by parents that believed in these belief and values the same way I do. As I see it there are two groups vying for power in summerfield... each claiming they know what the community wants. One group conducts polls that the other group shoots down the results for one reason or another. I believe there is "some" truth in each side of every argument. (I know... I know... I am walking a fine line and will have to take sides... you are probably right but the sides I take will be based upon the issue and the information, facts, opinions, community needs, and an objective mind! All I can promise is that I will be honest and (to quote my college motto) "I will try" to do what is best for the community. This election is a watershed of political beliefs and battles... in the last election, the unknown commodity was voted in to office... now the community has had a chance to see them for whom they are (good or bad... your decision). This election will shape the direction of the community for a long period of time (believe me ... more than just four years). I hope people educate themselves and start asking the tough questions! If I do not know the answers I will tell you. Then I will (and I promise this ) learn and educate myself and then respond to the question/issue. Some may say that that is a sign of weakness. They may be correct but I believe a bigger sign of weakness making excuses, lying, doing nothing or going along with a preconceived belief without learning more about the other side. This is our community... lets do great things together in our community! Lets not just do things to do things. Thanks! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:01 am by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:02 am by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:03 am by Jim Flynt |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Further, which incumbents running for office are not worthy of voters rehiring with their votes and why? This is called "mud slinging", which I hope Mr Lovett can rise above. Mr Lovett, let's hope you can campaign positively, showing the voters what you have to offer, and not stoop to tearing down other candidates. the other questions Jim poses are very good questions in my opinion. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:03 am by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:04 am by Jim Flynt |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: I do think that a discussion advocating change from the status quo (the current 3 incumbents) somehow must address WHY a change is necessary and WHETHER the change needed is an INDIVIDUAL change (remove one or two incumbents) or an ACROSS THE BOARD change (remove all incumbents). Agreed, thanks Jimbo |
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FatPappy Member
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"Nothing is written." The future of Summerfield is what the people of Summerfield make it. Candidate Alicia Flowers says "It's business as usual in Summerfield." Continuing to make statements like that is business as usual in Summerfield, and I hope the candidates can move beyond that. Please! I very much like what you said Mr Lovett and I like the way you said it. You got ol' Pappy's attention. I look forward to hearin' more about what you think and how you think. |
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lovettrp Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:
e.) Be prepared (the boyscout in me) for the Jordan Lake rules! and the Phase II Stormwater regulations Last edited on Aug 3rd, 2007 02:15 pm by lovettrp |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by Poster. Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 03:04 am by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:Mr. Lovett, you have obviously given a great deal of thought to these planning and zoning questions and challenges for Summerfield. Let's hope that the other candidates will weigh in with the same kind of detailed response which you have shared. It is quite obvious you are on top of these issues and I was more than impressed with several of your well thought out responses. Your detailed rational response is the kind of information and discussion which voters need and which, if provided by all the other candidates, would insure an informed electorate and a community working together toward common goals and solutions to problems. Jim, I agree! (I feel dizzy...) Much obliged, Mr Lovett! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Since this topic is getting too large & draggy in speed, a new topic of Summerfield TC II has been created. This one will be left open a few days in case there is something you want to copy over, otherwise if all would start using TC-II, we should be able to enjoy higher speeds and less of the DDP's. R.I.P. S.T.C. I Last edited on Aug 4th, 2007 07:00 pm by Steve Adkins |
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Ready?? Got your party hat on??? 
????
