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Steve Adkins Member 
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For Commentary on all items concerning the Summerfield Town Council & Town Politics TC-I will be left open for a few days if there's something you want to copy over here) Last edited on Aug 4th, 2007 01:42 pm by Steve Adkins |
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Doug Canavello Member
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Jim FLynt asked… The questions relative to planning/zoning that I would ask candidates would be: Under what conditions if any, would you vote to overturn a planning board decision if elected to town council? I think the TC members should only overturn a decision if, in their view, a policy is being ignored or violated. Council should focus on policy! Focusing on policy will serve us in many ways, not the least of which is the management of conflicts of interest issues. When a decision involves an interpretation of established policy, or establishment of new policy, it is up to the TC to vote on the issue, either to override, add to or adhere to the specific policy or ordinance. Further, under what conditions if any, would you vote in such a manner that your vote/decision was not consistent with the town's comprehensive land use plan if elected to town council? We have a way to go until the development of the comprehensive plan, but let’s assume one will be in place at some point in the future (I think the consultants estimate at least a year), Four educational sessions are being presented by our consultants this fall regarding the development and implementation of the plan, and I believe these sessions will be open to all citizens of Summerfield. Obviously, no long-range plan can predict all contingencies of development and land use in the future, so there will need to be options for changes and modifications. I support having some sort of referendum by citizens for the eventual 'Long-Range Plan’, and think it should be re-ratified by the citizens on a regular basis. Then, a Town Council member should be obligated to square his/her decision with the Plan, and explain any apparent deviation(s) by referencing the plan. Finally, what directional changes or improvements do you see that are needed (if any) with regard to planning, zoning and growth issues? I agree that the OSRD has been misused and sometimes does not reflect the ‘spirit’ of a rural town, however there are some excellent applications of this ordinance in Summerfield. A more important issue is finding a mechanism that holds our developers to their promises. Some of the most troublesome issues that have arisen in Summerfield and elsewhere are the instances where developers made promises that they ultimately reneged upon. We need to do research to find out how other municipalities are handling this problem, and then get creative to find a solution. How Summerfield grows in the next four years will be determined by a wide variety of forces, including FedEX, the widening of Hwy 220 and the I-73 connector. While we are looking at zoning and planning issues the market conditions will be telling us what is viable. Our job is to set policies that respect the wishes and individual rights of our citizens, for the ‘highest and best use’ of land that still gives us what it is that we live in Summerfield for. And I will just surmise that rural character incorporating high quality growth is what we want. As far as the Jordan Lake Watershed and stormwater regulations, they will have to be addressed. My background as owner of an engineering and environmental consulting firm will certainly be brought to bear on these issues as they come up. |
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FatPappy Member 
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Mornin', Mr Canavello. I appreciate your answers. What would you say are the most important issues that need to be addressed in Summerfield? How would you go about tackling those issues? Much obliged. |
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lovettrp Member
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FatPappy wrote: What would you say are the most important issues that need to be addressed in Summerfield? How would you go about tackling those issues? What would you say are the most important issues that need to be addressed in Summerfield? The obvious bitterness and divide in Summerfield between FFS and CCSto me is the most important issue facing our community. Now, opposing views are important to every discussion (when they are handled in a appropriate manner); however, this rift is becoming a obstacle to the volunteers, council members and staff in the performance of their jobs and adds expenses wastes resources. These rifts must be breached. The name calling, public displays of disrespect, and misrepresentation or blatant disregard to facts must be addressed. How would you go about tackling those issues? Now for me to live up to my belief that you must offer (or brainstorm an idea) a solution to problems (be part of the solution not a part of the problem)... I offer the following. Town Council should have meetings with representatives of both groups together on a quarterly (or less/more if necessary) basis. These meetings would be run by council but then agenda topics would be set by the two groups. The groups would have an opportunity to submit topics for discussion. The board would select two topics (arbitrary number) from each group. The purpose of this would be to come to a consensus between the groups on how topics are to be handled. This type of discussion could have addressed the main problem with the park surveys... if we (all groups involved) agreed on the contact methods to be employed, amount of response necessary to satisfy a majority of the community, and what constitutes a "majority opinion"... the augment over the survey results could have been avoided and this issue could have been removed for the discussion table since the "majority" (predetermined in the meeting) would have spoken. Mr. Canavello wrote: "I support having some sort of referendum by citizens for the eventual 'Long-Range Plan’, and think it should be re-ratified by the citizens on a regular basis. Then, a Town Council member should be obligated to square his/her decision with the Plan, and explain any apparent deviation(s) by referencing the plan." Lovett's Response: Most of this I agree with... I do like the idea of a referendum on the eventual long range plan but here is the rub... the community can (and was highly encouraged to)participate in the creation of the plan (this i feel is the real referendum phase), help craft the vision for the town, and codify it in a document. Now, if a specific group of people does not like one or two points of the (consensus) plan for what ever reason and manages to orchestrate a movement to vote it down then the plan goes un-ratified. Ok... now a year + is lost and Summerfield has wasted over one hundred thousand dollars... not "chump change" especially when you factor in the wasted time and effort of the volunteers of the steering committee. The citizens are involved in the process (the one year long + process) to develop this plan. If there is a serious concern then it should be addressed in the plan development phases. I feel that each of the selected members of the steering committee can be contacted by citizens to express any concerns. Any concerned citizen (not the group... it is just easier for me articulate myself) should get involved. Please do not complain after the document is prepared. Everyone must remember that "if" everyone works together early enough, the plan will contain enough for everyone to make all groups content... DO NOT WAIT UNTIL THE PLAN GOES TO PRINTING TO START COMPLAINING OR GETTING INVOLVED. The plan should be re-authorized by the Town Council every 5-years (allowing for only one vote by a council member during their elected term). I do not think a 5-year public referendum on the plan is necessary. The re-authorization should be the responsibility of the council... that is why we have elections to vote in the person that we feel will represent yourselves best. If you do not like the views of a person do not vote for him/her. One last problem regarding prepared documents that are not accepted ... The zoning board currently references the Summerfield Long Range Plan (i believe that is the proper title... I would have to check) in rendering their decisions on some cases. The rub is ... this document is used since it is the boards a ong range view of the community... but this view was never accepted by council (or at least that is what I have been told). We (the zoning board) se it to address areas in the ordinance and other plans are silent). Last edited on Aug 7th, 2007 12:53 pm by lovettrp |
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Doug Canavello Member
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Important issues include: Development – How do we develop in a fair, responsible way that honors current residents at the same time allowing opportunity for newcomers. Water and septic – These issues are going to become more and more important with further development. There is a finite amount of water and a finite amount of space for septic. What do we want our government to do for us, and how much are we willing to pay for it? – One of the things that I see as lacking up to now is full cycle budgeting. By this I mean projecting budget issues and projects ahead into their entire life spans, to see what the total real costs are and whether we have the funding in place to support them Policy development – As I pointed to in my earlier post, it is time for Summerfield to look at models of government. I understand that is what the current council-manager referendum is starting to look at. But I’m concerned we haven’t got a governance model in place to make that system work. Our current council has no muscle in establishing and enforcing policy, and it takes something to get there. I have experience on a not-for-profit Board of Directors, and getting the system in place takes time, patience and some good outside people to help. Ethics and integrity – Summerfield needs to establish and incorporate an ethics policy. Transparency means any citizen can see how decisions are being made and how money is being spent. I am a member of a Rotary Club, and I love our Four Way Test – and I would bring it to each and every discussion and action; Is it the truth? Is it FAIR to all concerned? Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FREINDSHIPS? Will it be beneficial to all concerned? If we can do that with our town government, we can say we accomplished something. ___________________________________________________________________ Rather than address all of these at one time, I think it is more appropriate to look at them one at a time. So over the next few days I’ll discuss some of them, and maybe other Forum participants will suggest other issues. I think it’s important to realize that the Town of Summerfield has a diversity of people, each with their own ideas of what’s important, and a Town Council-person can sometimes be most effective by listening. |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged, gentlemen! Speakin' for myself, I hear some good ideas in both answers and I appreciate the thought that went into them. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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lovettrp wrote: What would you say are the most important issues that need to be addressed in Summerfield? lovettrp I extend a personal invitation for you to attend a meeting of FFS at my home Tuesday 7 Aug at 7 pm to learn what FFS is about. 7591 Cassidy Way, Summerfield. Last edited on Aug 6th, 2007 09:10 pm by Steve Adkins |
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lovettrp Member
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I would like to thank Steve A. for the invitation to last nights FFS meeting! I did enjoy being surrounded by people who have such a positive attitude of the community. It was a refreshing change! I would like to thank everyone for their interest in our community, especially the hosts of last nights meeting. I am excited about the possible Candidate forum/debates and I was impressed with the creative ways to encourage a worthwhile turnout. Count me in! Last night an individual questioned me about my last posting...I will try to clarify my intent and apologize for a poor job of articulating my position! The issue was my response to the question in a posting regarding the most important issues that need to be addressed in Summerfield? I should have been a little more clear in my statements by responding something like ... "The obvious bitterness and divide in the Summerfield community, best illustrated by groups with differing agendas (eg. FFS and CCS), to me is the most important issue facing our community." I mis-characterized both the CCS and FFS as opposing groups battling each other - I believe each group would exist even if the other(s) did not. Each group has their own independent agendas! I still believe that meetings with local groups should occur so the TC members can get a better feel for the needs/issues/concerns of the community... Quarterly meetings with groups like these are good ways to a improve communication and address concerns early. I hope that clears things up a bit. Thank you!! |
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Cracker Jax Member 
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Thanks to you Mr. Lovett for clarifying that statement! No matter the personal opinions of the individual FFS members, the FFS as a whole is not "against" any group. They are simply "for" Summerfield. If I'm not mistaken, at least one concerned citizen who is also a candidate, attends all Friends for Summerfield meetings and if she were willing, could attest to that fact herself. I'm very impressed by you and I appreciate your willingness to become more involved. Good Luck!!! |
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Steve Adkins Member
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lovettrp wrote: I would like to thank Steve A. for the invitation to last nights FFS meeting! I did enjoy being surrounded by people who have such a positive attitude of the community. It was a refreshing change! I would like to thank everyone for their interest in our community, especially the hosts of last nights meeting. I am excited about the possible Candidate forum/debates and I was impressed with the creative ways to encourage a worthwhile turnout. Count me in! lovettrp, I sincerely thank you for coming to the FFS meeting Tues nite. CJ said it best, FFS is not against the CC's, we're FOR Summerfield. We love our community. I regret I am out of town and could not attend, but look forward to meeting you soon. You are welcome at any future meeting, first Tuesday of each month, and watch our website http://www.friendsforsummerfield.com. Thank you for the clarification on your comments. Steve Last edited on Aug 8th, 2007 11:07 pm by Steve Adkins |
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FatPappy Member
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I agree, Crackah. Soundin' good, Mr Lovett. Pappy appreciates your fair-minded attitude. |
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lovettrp Member
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FatPappy and Cracker Jax I would like to thank you both for your kind words! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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It was a night of revelations at the SF TC meeting. Strickland went on record as being "opposed to phase II of the park" so many times that she was indeed beginning to sound like a "broken" record (Stole that one from somebody else... you know who you are!). I must say that I saw her smile more tonight than at any meeting in the past. Could it be that she was playing to her public? One speaker from the floor stated that he had read about disruptions at council meetings and suggested that the council consider a Sargent at Arms to attend meetings and control the disruptive attendees. I didn't catch his name, but I think it was a great idea! Several of the candidates for council were introduced to the public. Incumbents Brown, Williams, Collins, Barnes, and challengers for the seats Lovett, Flowers, Waldrup, Canavello all showed up in time to be introduced. Wendelken attended, but arrived too late to be introduced. Interesting discussion on the Council-Manager form of govt. (Be careful - we can't call it Manager-Council anymore because according to Mr. Hill,a certain council member called him to task on this - perhaps concerned that they aren't getting top billing?) The issue up for discussion was whether or not to put the change of government issue on the November ballot and let the voters educate themselves and decide whether or not they want a change of government. That's it. On this topic at least, Candidates Flowers, Canavello and Wendelken seemingly aligned themselves squarely with the Concerned Citizens and spoke in opposition of allowing the citizens to make the decision for themselves. None of them seemed to understand however, that the purpose of the public hearing was to put the decision to the voters, not whether or not we needed the change. They didn't seem to understand that we didn't care how they were going to vote..... just that we want a vote too. Citizen Dunham after being thrown for a loop when Brandt was able to instantaneously produce the wording of the referendum, regained her composure and later spoke in opposition stating that she doesn't believe that there has been "groundswell of support" for the change. This is the same woman who asks that minor decisions that come before council go to referendum. I just don't get her. The only thing I can figure is that the Concerned Citizens are afraid that the results of the November referendum will indeed show a "groundswell of support" for this change. Time will tell I suppose. |
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FatPappy Member
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Much obliged, Crackah. I notice Strickland was able to oppose the park without a groundswell of opposition. I notice she didn't have any trouble voting against letting the citizens decide what form of government we want. Or does she think such decisions are best left only to Concerned Citizens? |
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DOGGETTJA Member 
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Another issue that came up last night was about the trail system in Summerfield. Does Ms Strickland not realize that we the people who took the time to come to the rezoning heard all about the trail system. We the people think that in this period of more obesity then ever known at any time of this country are willing to maintain a trail system in order to provide outdoor experiences and exercise for people. Also does she not realize that if we don't accept these easements that they are deeded to Guilford County or Greensboro? It is amazing how much land Guilford County and Greensboro hold in Summerfield because in the past we had a mayor who also refused to accept any easements. The property on the Armfield property that the Town will have to negotiate with the city to use as a Park is such land. |
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Doug Canavello Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Why is there so much acrimony in Summerfield? Throwing labels of "Concerned Citizens" is certainly one of the main causes. I don't need to 'align' with anyone to express my opinion on a subject. So consider that perhaps you are a source of the problem!! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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That's exactly what they would like for you to believe Mr. Canavello. I did not however, come up with the label "Concerned Citizens". They've done a fine job of making a name for themselves without any help from me. So if you were indeed expressing your own opinion and not the opinion of the Concerned Citizens, how do you answer to the fact that you spoke in opposition to giving the public the right to vote on the issue? |
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FatPappy Member
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I'm not sure where all the acrimony came from, but a big load of it was imported from Illinois. Have you never been to a town council meeting and seen and heard the industrial strength acrimony spat out by Strickland and Dunham for the past two years and more? Why not ask them why? The acrimony and finger pointing started when the Concerned Citizens became active and began polluting the water with their poison of mistrust, innuendo, accusations, our-way-or-nothing attitudes, and half-truths. Finger pointing in itself is neither good nor bad, but it can be put to good or bad uses. Good use: Pointing out who poisoned the water hole. Bad use: Pointing to who didn't poison the water hole and saying they did. (Hint: This is what the Concerned Citizens do.) |
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GRITS Member
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Doug Canavello wrote: Cracker Jax wrote: Doug Canavello, please express in your opinion as to why you oppose the citizens the right to vote on their form of government? I am not a participant of either group and would like to understand better why you oppose this. I currently do not know where I stand on this issue and I would like as much information as possible. However, I do not disagree in asking that the citizens vote on this issue. Are you currently pleased with our form of government as it is? What do you think needs to be changed to resolve problems instead of creating problems? Also, how long have you been a resident of Summerfield, and where are you originally from? I propose the above questions to any candidate. Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 03:14 pm by GRITS |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote:
Ah Ha. The old US versus THEM political campaign tactic. (We should have seen than one coming) Also known as the old INSIDERS versus OUTSIDERS smear campaign. Your question might be considered a fair one if you posed it to every single candidate. But then would you measure a candidate's worthiness for office solely on their length of residence or tenure in Summerfield? Your inference is that unless someone is born and bred in Summerfield, their voice and vote and opinion and their participation doesn't count for much. Let me give you a little helpful hint: With all of the residential growth in the past 10 years, there are now lots more of them (outsiders) than there are of you (locals). And THEY VOTE TOO. Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 03:02 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Hairbrush Member
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Grits I think those are great questions. I too would like to see why some people oppose not only the form of government but why do they oppose giving the right to the people of voting whether they want to vote for a change of government. I think that got a little lost last night. If you don't want a change of government then vote no. I too think that if you are going to be a candidate for a member of a town council then it seems logical to want to know how long they have lived in the town, what brought them to the town, what vision they have for the town, how many council meetings they have attended, what committees they have worked on or what boards they have sat on. These are important to me. I don't need to know what group a candidate has aligned herself/himself with, but I do need to know what they stand for and why, not just what they stand against. That leaves a lot of open area for me to guess on what someone might stand for. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Hairbrush wrote:
That kind of question is right out of a Karl Rove or Lee Atwater political campaign play book. ('wedge issue') The very nature of the question is designed to DIVIDE rather than UNITE a community. (Let's be honest here, a continued community division is the intent and goal of both sides) The question reflects extreme xenophobia by those who fear and feel threatened by a loss of power at the hands of folks who are not one of them. Karl and Lee would be so proud....... Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 03:23 pm by Jim Flynt |
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GRITS Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:
I challenge you to provide the statistical proof. Am I to just rollover and just except what all these outsiders want simply because you say they out number me? Does my expectation of what I want from my government not count because you say I am a minority? Are you saying outsiders votes are superior to locals because again I am a minority? Fortunately, I appreciate others knowledge of other types or styles of leadership as long as it leads to a positive solution--and it is worthy to know participant's location and what their outcomes were under their form of government. Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 03:38 pm by GRITS |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote: I challenge you to provide the statistical proof. If you will please remind me on the morning after Election Day, I will be happy to provide such proof. If one cannot read the county board of elections historical data as well as building permit demographics and reach the conclusion that I did, nothing I could say or tender as proof would ever change such a closed mind. |
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Hairbrush Member
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So let's see if I understand this Grits, you and I are trying to be informed voters, but we should just vote by the seat of our pants. We shouldn't worry if someone has an understanding of the community they are living in or what is important to that town. I guess only the newcomers are important. But I feel there must have been some reason the newcomers wanted to move to this area and there must be some things they want to see done in the town as well as the long lived residents, as well as the residents that haven't been here for generations but have lived here for awhile. But that doesn't seem to matter. As long as a candidate was living here before the filing date and paid her/his money then she/he is perfectly qualified to sit on the council. Am I understanding this correctly Grits? I thought I was pretty educated but I guess am not. I guess all these years of researching my candidates was just a big joke. Shoot I don't even now why it matters if they are Republican or Democrat. Now talk about a divide. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:Ah Ha. The old US versus THEM political campaign tactic. (We should have seen than one coming) Jim Flynt wrote: That kind of question is right out of a Karl Rove or Lee Atwater political campaign play book. ('wedge issue') Some could consider your posts a smear campaign. You can believe and say what you want, but it don't make it true. A continued divided community is certainly not my goal and I don't really think you believe it is. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Hairbrush wrote: Shoot I don't even now why it matters if they are Republican or Democrat. Now talk about a divide. I thought Summerfield Town Council Elections were NON-PARTISAN. Is political affiliation part of the whispering campaign too? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: A continued divided community is certainly not my goal and I don't really think you believe it is. A simple reading of the posts here from all sides leads to no other conclusion. In Summerfield, the dialogue is never about issues, but rather name calling and finger pointing by one side against the other. Both sides are equally guilty and equally at fault. The divisive dialogue and community division will only change when both sides see far greater disadvantage than advantage in continuing with the current divisiveness. Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 04:03 pm by Jim Flynt |
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jkinneman Member 
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Mostly responding in reference to the number of outsiders versus locals. How long you have to live some place to be a local is one question I would ask but census data seems to support there are more "outsiders" than locals if we look back to the 1990 census as a starting point. Based on Census data in 1990 Summerfield had about 2051 people (all ages). Since Summerfield was not an incorporated town in 1990 it was designated as a "census designated place". In the 2000 Census there were 7018. I couldn't find a good number for 2007 but likely the growth since 2000 has been more due to people moving in than by birth from someone defined as a local....  Whether a higher percentage of "locals" vote than "new comers" or vice versa I don't know any easy way to find that out. As mentioned above how long do you have to live some place to be a local? |
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GRITS Member
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FatPappy wrote: Jim Flynt wrote: Mine neither, therefore Hairbrush keep educating yourself and inform me on what you find out--we are the ones that have to live with the outcome of the vote "we are the locals" if you know what I mean. Unity is coming! Keep being positive. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote: "we are the locals" if you know what I mean. Yep, sure do. |
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PaulS Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:
I don't know why everyone is so upset. Myself, I am thrilled to find out that someone (though they don't actually live in Summerfield) has taken it upon themself to read everyone else's posts and then tell me exactly what those posters meant. Imagine, I don't need to waste any more time reading the posts from the masses - I can skip right to his posts (except the ones he deletes after rethinking his position) and everything will be explained to me. Simple, really. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Hairbrush wrote:Shoot I don't even now why it matters if they are Republican or Democrat. Now talk about a divide. It's called a Faction. Federalist No. 10. Interesting read. "There are again two methods of removing the cause of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to it's existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests." "Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an ailment without which it instantly expires." Dangerous yet inevitable and progressive. Only a true "adversary to liberty" would disagree.
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Jim Flynt Member
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Cracker Jax wrote:
Candidates who seek to fractionalize will be the ones who are marginalized by voters. |
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Super Moderator Super Moderator
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Back on topic. Flame ideas, not people. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by poster. Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 11:38 pm by Jim Flynt |
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S. Smith Moderator
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jkinneman wrote: Mostly responding in reference to the number of outsiders versus locals. How long you have to live some place to be a local is one question I would ask but census data seems to support there are more "outsiders" than locals if we look back to the 1990 census as a starting point. Good points, jkinneman. One point to bring up regarding the incredible growth in Summerfield has to do with annexation. Unlike in Oak Ridge's voluntary annexation, from what I remember a huge number of citizens came forward and said they wanted to be a part of Summerfield after the original incorporation effort (could have had something to do with the timing -- Summerfield had no property tax then). Maybe some of the Summerfield residents can add some insight regarding the numbers. While I'm sure you're right that the population increase is due to people moving in rather than people being born here, the Summerfield population spike probably includes both "newcomers" and "old timers" (now town residents because of the annexation). I have no idea when "newcomers" become "old timers." |
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StewartM Member 
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S. Smith wrote: I have no idea when "newcomers" become "old timers." When they learn the language.......  Summerfield did grow more by annexation then new people moving here..... How long you live here doesn't matter after you pay your first property tax..... Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 09:26 pm by StewartM |
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darrelldawg Member 
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This post was deleted by EditorPS because of violation of the forum's Terms of Agreement -- Flame ideas, not people. Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 11:22 pm by EditorPS |
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Jim Flynt Member
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StewartM wrote: How long you live here doesn't matter after you pay your first property tax..... Amen Mike. Quite the profound statement. That really should be the only measure. I could not have said it better. |
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GRITS Member
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StewartM wrote: How long you live here doesn't matter after you pay your first property tax..... But it doesn't make you an expert on how the town should be run either. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote: StewartM wrote:How long you live here doesn't matter after you pay your first property tax..... I don't know that there are any experts that exist like that. |
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GRITS Member
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This post was deleted by EditorPS because of violation of the Terms of Agreement. Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 11:21 pm by EditorPS |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Edited by poster. Last edited on Aug 15th, 2007 11:39 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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S. Smith wrote:I have no idea when "newcomers" become "old timers." Pappy became a ol' coot, on October 25, 2005, almost 3200 posts ago. HOO WEE! That was a real shock in the mirror next mornin'. Hee hee! Fer somebody to be part of a community, they need to do a little reachin' out. Old timers in the community also need to reach out to the newcomers. I reckon it works both ways. Fer the most part I've seen this work right well, bein' as how most people are decent enough to get along with others an' want to belong. It don't matter so much what yer circumstances are, it mainly matters what you're like as a person. Some people just don't want to be part of anything unless they can rule it. If they cain't rule it, they want to ruin it. |
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EditorPS Administrator 
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TIME OUT! I need everyone who has been a participant on this forum today to stop immediately and review the Terms of Agreement. Then if you don't abide by them, I'll know it's not because I haven't reminded you, and not because you haven't read them, rather because you chose to ignore them. And in that case, you'll be asked to leave the forum. |
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dwendelken Member
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Patti and all the members of this forum: This is why I have not been participating in the forum. Jim brought out some real feelings from those who are on this forum very often. I refuse to get involved with all this negativity and will always be positive- no matter what diferences I may have with someone. I too voiced my opinion on Tuesday and I got lableled. I will continue to go forward with a positive campaign. Unfortunately I will not be participating in this forum after reviewing the previous posts. I am an independent thinker and would base my decisons on what would be best for all the people of Summerfield. Don Last edited on Aug 16th, 2007 01:31 am by dwendelken |
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EditorPS Administrator
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Hi Don, Thanks for posting. Unfortunately, I'm afraid there is a lot of negativity in Summerfield, on AND OFF this forum, and I believe the forum simply reflects the mindframes and frustrations of some of the Summerfield residents. We'd love to hear from people with ALL DIFFERENT viewpoints but sadly, some are only open to their own views and don't want to talk or listen to anyone who might think differently from them. Forum participants have been warned this evening to stay on topic and discuss ideas and not people; those that ignore the terms of agreement will be first asked to leave and if they can't control themselves, we'll take other steps to ensure that the forum remains civil, on-topic and productive. We will either have civil, productive conversations or none at all. Hope you'll reconsider and join us in the former. Last edited on Aug 16th, 2007 01:33 am by EditorPS |
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Jim Flynt Member
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dwendelken wrote: I.....would base my decisons on what would be best for ALL the people of Summerfield. Don, that will certainly marginalize any Summerfield fringe groups of narrow self interest. Last edited on Aug 16th, 2007 03:05 am by Jim Flynt |
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lovettrp Member
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I have some thoughts that I wanted to air and I through this would be an appropriate forum. Some things that were discussed lat the last T.C. meeting that gave me great pause. I am a bit confused and maybe I misunderstood the underlying issues of two specific arguments. Each concerning a different topic but linked because of their stark contrast in their respective recommended form of settlement. First… There was concern expressed by a board member and several citizens that the Summerfield voters would be un-informed about their choices regarding the structure and potential consequences an alternate form of local government. Additionally, I heard concerns about the possible long-term ramifications (hidden costs and the inability to remove/fire someone) that the proposed change in government would have should the referendum ballot be adopted (by council and be ratified by the local electorate). All of these concerns calling into question the will of the people and their legal right to a referendum and their ability to decide for themselves. Next… There was concern that the “majority” voters were not heard and Council acted inappropriately when the decisions were made to move forward on the park (both the first and second phase) and the municipal building/sheriff’s substation. REMEMBER: You can not demand that the voters be heard on one issue (the one you agree with) and silence them on an issue (the one you disagree with). If you do that (especially as a council member) you are not fulfilling your role as and elected representative. The problem about being “fair” is that it cuts both ways! You must ask yourself…is there really a “possibility” that all voters will be un-informed? Is this a real and valid reason not to allow the referendum to proceed? (I am currently still researching the different types of government but I WILL present my personal stand on this issue shortly.) If that is truly an argument, we must therefore take it to the natural conclusion ... un-informed people therefore should not have the “right(1)” to select their government leaders, or structure their government takes. Now take that a bit further ...every voter should be required to take a knowledge test to determine their competency prior to voting (this would be a’kin to a paying a poll tax). Is this really the way people are thinking now a'days? I feel that it is incumbent on every voter to educate themselves on the issues… something that I have said since my first post. And I trust the voters more than elected officials!!! Assumption: If the concerns about the Park/Municipal Building-Sheriff’s substation were valid and the people were not consulted, then we must handle all major(2) changes/expenses/ decisions that affect the community the same way. The council should develop a policy of referendum. This would be a true way to let the majority be heard. Assumption: If the Council members are afraid of losing power/responsibility as a result of the voters decisions resulting from an unfavorable result of the referendum, then the council members should oppose the referendum request … thereby turning a deaf ear to the citizens and voters in the community that complied with the state legislated ability to bring forth a referendum all the while failing to properly fulfilling your obligation as and elected representative. Just some of my thoughts! Did I misunderstand something? Did anyone else feel this way? (1) My understanding of the US and North Carolina Constitution we the people do not be denied the right to vote. You cannot deny the right to vote because of "race or gender. Citizens of Washington DC can vote for President; 18-year-olds can vote; you can vote even if you fail to pay a poll tax. The Constitution also requires that anyone who can vote for the "most numerous branch" of their state legislature can vote for House members and Senate members. Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example. This is precisely why so many amendments have been needed over time - the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld. For example, in Texas, persons declared mentally incompetent and felons currently in prison or on probation are denied the right to vote. It is interesting to note that though the 26th Amendment requires that 18-year-olds must be able to vote, states can allow persons younger than 18 to vote, if they chose to." (http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#vote) (2) The definition of major needs to be clarified (e.g. an expense of 25% of the revenue, change of government structure, change in term length and limits). Last edited on Aug 16th, 2007 12:08 pm by lovettrp |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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I think both sides assume the large unengaged majority supports their side. I personally feel that it is incumbent on us as citizens of this representative democracy, I believe we are called, to educate our selves on the issues and to express our opinions at the polls or the people representing us are not in fact representing the majority. As an aside the Civitans are presenting an educational meeting open to the public for the purpose of educating us on the Council/manager form of government. I have not heard a date yet. I have done my homework on this issue and it appears to me one that virtually all cities over the size of 5,000 have the council/ manager form. It becomes an issue of do you want your town run professionally or politically. Our town is run by politics at the moment. The Concerned Citizens have constantly hammered the council for being wasteful and unethical but then they want these very same people to over see our Town. The council/manager form of government would hire a professional manager who then would over see the work of the town. The final appeal would always be the council but the day to day would be the job of the professional manager who would be answerable to council. I have researched with the League of municipalities and ICMA and there are no hidden costs to the council/manager form of government that I can identify and in fact should be more cost effective if the council does its homework and a qualified manager is hired. |
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Baseball Buddy Member 
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Very well said Jane. I have always said that if you say you don't understand the issue you need to educate yourself before making a decision. Anyone who says they have not heard of this or don't understand why people want the change choose not to educate themselves. Government will not come to your house and serve it to you on a silver platter. You have to get involved and learn how it works. Thanks Jane for all you have done to help people who want to learn more about the differences between the two forms of government. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote: StewartM wrote:How long you live here doesn't matter after you pay your first property tax..... Yet Summerfield would hire an outsider (non-local) to manage how the town is run under a Manager/Council system as the expert professional manager? Politics would not be removed under a Manager/Council system, it would merely change. And any manager worth a hill of beans, would clearly understand that his or her job was always subject to the ever changing whims of an ever changing majority of council members. Anyone want to talk about lack of job security for a town manager? Simply recall all of the various county managers in Guilford County who came and went under the ever changing political guard as power shifted back and forth between two groups. No county manager has ever slowed Skip Alston down, no Greensboro City Manager has ever silenced Diane Bellamy-Small, and no Summerfield town manager is going to slow down nor silence the likes of Becky Strickland. Those looking for a permanent solution to a temporary problem would be wise to look for solutions other than what is perceived to be the quick fix. It's time to get real and not kid one's self. The illusion which many have is that politics and dissent by a vocal minority will simply go away under a new system, which is not reality based. |
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Hairbrush Member
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I want to return a moment to what I am looking for in a town council member and a candidate. I think Mr. Lovett has the right approach. In my original post way back when I stated that I did think it was important to ask the question that Grits was asking of candidates about how long you have lived in Summerfield and how involved you are in the town of Summerfield. Maybe I should have changed the wording to how active are you in Summerfield. I see Mr. Lovett really making an effort to understand the dynamics of the town he lives in and to really get to the know the people he lives with. He may not have lived here during all the incidents that make up our history but he is willing to listen to it and to understand it. I really think he has put a lot of thought into what he wants to accomplish on the council. He also has a great back ground in the environment which it seems the town of Summerfield needs. I also like that Mr. Lovett comes out and tells us what he stands for not what he stands against. Kudos to Mr. Lovett. I think that one of the things you have to remember when you run for political office is that not everyone is going to agree with you. You are hoping that you can bring certain groups together and use their strengths so that some goal will be met. But you know in reality that might not happen. You are hoping that some of things that you promised your supporters will happen. You know that on some things you are going to compromise, some things you are going to have to give up and some things you are going to hold strong. And in the end the People, your bosses, will be pleased. The problem I see with a council member like Becky Strickland is there is no compromise. It seems to be her way or no way. She gets nasty. She is nasty to the staff, she is nasty to her fellow council members and she is nasty to her citizens. I have never seen her at a town function so to me she seems very unapproachable. So her motions start to die on the floor, she is the lone hold out vote. Sometimes she has a good point and a good idea, but I think she has already set the council so on edge that her message gets lost. I know I want to tune her out. What she says always seem to have an edge to it. So what do the people that voted for her get. Nothing, unless they just want to say she always stood her ground. What good is that, when a little compromise or a little teamwork might have gone a long way. I don't want a council member like that. Doesn't mean I won't vote for someone that is strong will and stands against the majority but if they can't work with people and know when to compromise then what is the use. If they aren't willing to get to know the community and be one of us then what is the use. I not going to get any of my changes anyway. Wow, sorry about the rant. I better get off my soapbox and earn a living since I guess I won't be getting rich off the stock market. |
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GRITS Member
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Doug Canavello wrote: What do we want our government to do for us? Four Way Test – and I would bring it to each and every discussion and action;Mr. Canavello, to help me understand your opinion on the council/manager form of government, and educate me to make a wise vote, I ask that you consider using your FOUR WAY TEST to support your vision on this type of government and why Summerfield should remain under a political driven government. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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GRITS wrote: why Summerfield should remain under a political driven government. If you can think of one single government or one single form of government which is not politically driven, please share that with us. We would all love to hear of your ideal government not politically driven, but we know it simply doesn't exist. Governments don't operate in Alice in Wonderland environments, they function in the real world of real people with differing political needs. |
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lovettrp Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: GRITS wrote:why Summerfield should remain under a political driven government. Would anarchy be a non-politically driven form of government? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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lovettrp wrote: Would anarchy be a non-politically driven form of government? Anarchy is a word that comes from the Greek, and signifies, strictly speaking, "without government" or the absence of government. |
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lovettrp Member
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I was being sarcastic... I know! But thanks anyway for the definition. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Just because this isn't Wonderland do we quit trying? |
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lovettrp Member
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GRITS wrote: Are you currently pleased with our form of government as it is? What do you think needs to be changed to resolve problems instead of creating problems? I am pleased with some aspects of current form of government; however, a set chain-of-command is absent. An organization can not function with six chiefs (town council and mayor) and four Indians (manager, planner, clerk and parks&rec manager). Some system must be put in place if we are to keep the existing system. Six direct bosses assigning tasks to one or two subordinates (no offence Carrie, Valarie, George and Michael) in unheard of in business. In a mayor-council form of government (I feel) the mayor should be the sole delegator of tasks to staff. All requests should be directed through him (or through a duly designated Representative of him). The mayor should act as the chairman of the council. As chief executor of the town he can prioritize tasks/requests (if necessary) and assess the workload on staff and make recommendations to increase and decrease staff accordingly. Also, since the mayor's head is on the chopping block every two years he is very accountable to the people. If the Mayor (in this type of system) does his/her job properly, no council member should complain about the prioritization of their requests. I am sure there are more issues or things that could be fixed... have to dig a bit deeper for those... but the major one is listed above! I have lived in Summerfield going on four years. I moved here from New Jersey (there is a three reasons that people leave... T...A...X). I volunteered as a zoning board alternate within one month of moving in to the Town... I wanted to be part of the community. I was appointed by council 2 years later after only missing one meeting as board alternate(had to see my wife give birth to the first of two sons... I missed my second meeting when my second was born also). Since moving here I have volunteered to serve my on my HOA (Wilson Farm) board, Guilford County Environmental Review Board, Boy scout merit badge counselor, ice hockey referee ( if you think T.C. meetings making a mistake is are rough... try refereeing 4-6 year old kids and blow a call... boy!, You WILL hear about it from the kids parents). College at Norwich University - Military College of Vermont 1992 B.S. Geology Occupation; geologist at an environmental/ engineering company in GSBO |
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lovettrp Member
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Hairbrush wrote: I want to return a moment to what I am looking for in a town council member and a candidate. I think Mr. Lovett has the right approach. ... I see Mr. Lovett really making an effort to understand the dynamics of the town he lives in and to really get to the know the people he lives with. He may not have lived here during all the incidents that make up our history but he is willing to listen to it and to understand it. I really think he has put a lot of thought into what he wants to accomplish on the council. .... I also like that Mr. Lovett comes out and tells us what he stands for not what he stands against. Kudos to Mr. Lovett. Thank you very much... I am trying! I have a lot to keep up with! |
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Hairbrush Member
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I think the problem with our mayor council form of government, if I read everything right, is that we have a weak mayor council form of government. Essentially our mayor is just a figure head. He votes in a tie, heads meetings, signs paper work, but cannot appoint positions. He holds no more power than any other council member and in fact without being able to vote he holds less. In a strong mayor council form a government, the mayor has definite roles and becomes more of what people think of as a mayor. The council is the legislative branch and set policies, review mayoral and administrative actions; pass budgets and bond issues. The mayor can appoint and remove department heads, he has veto power over the council but the council can override the veto with a extraordinary majority. He prepares and administers a budget that the council approves. This information came from the Handbook for Minnesota Cities and other such sites. I think that is why in this case we need a Town Manager to organize our staff. The mayor doesn't have the power to act on his own. The council is suppose to rule collectively but I am not sure that is being done. I am not sure that as a paid staff member if a council member walked into my office and asked me to do something I would be able to look them in the eye and say is this approved by the whole staff or just you. |
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lovettrp Member
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I would agree with you synopsis except for the veto power... Maybe limit it or eliminate that and it sounds somewhat accurate to my position. I would also modify the budget item... the mayor should work in unison with the council to develop a budget! Last edited on Aug 16th, 2007 07:51 pm by lovettrp |
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Hairbrush Member
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We would have to research it and see our state legeslative says if we wanted to change the charter. I am sure the council could set policy and procedures in place to make it work how the citizens wanted but then the citizens are at the mercy of each council that is elected on whether they wanted to continue with that policy or procedure. |
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GRITS Member
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Thanks for answering my questions Lovettrp. Now I will say that I commend you for wanting to take an active role in the community and representing a positive attitude, not only for Summerfield but for your family as well. I am honored that you have only been here for 4 years -- I think Summerfield will benefit having you as a force to contend with. One thing about the council/manager government is that the form encourages open communication between citizens and their government. Under this form, each member of the governing body has an equal voice in policy development and administrative oversight. This gives neighborhoods and diverse groups a greater opportunity to influence policy. I feel you will only encourage more communication between all groups in Summerfield and create solutions. Thanks, you certainly have my attention. Last edited on Aug 16th, 2007 08:14 pm by GRITS |
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Steve Adkins Member
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dwendelken wrote: I too voiced my opinion on Tuesday and I got lableled. I will continue to go forward with a positive campaign. Unfortunately I will not be participating in this forum after reviewing the previous posts. Don I don't understand your "taking my marbles & going home" reaction over being "labelled" by some passionate constituents. Frankly I'm disappointed. Do you think you would not have gotten "labelled" if you hadn't voiced an opinion? Just by virtue of being a candidate, you're going to eventually get labelled something, ie aligned with some group, right-wing, left-wing, liberal, conservative, etc. It's part of politics. Are you going to get angry at each label? I voted for you in the last Summerfield TC election because I thought you had something to offer. Took the time to shake your hand, talk to you, talked with your committed wife, still remember how excited she was. Someone else in this form labelled you the "submarine candidate", ie you surface when there is an election. The labels won't stop til election day. Personally I'd like to get to know the "real" you, but now that's not going to be possible (in this venue). As a voter, a candidate is going to have to reach out to me, because I'm not going to chase them down. It's OK, I'm only one lousy vote. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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We don't have a strong mayor and the change to council/manager will not give us one. That is another whole subject. Last edited on Aug 17th, 2007 12:11 am by DOGGETTJA |
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FatPappy Member
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GRITS wrote:I feel you will only encourage more communication between all groups in Summerfield and create solutions. I agree, Grits. Mr Lovett you are soundin' good and I appreciate your participation in the town and on this forum. |
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lovettrp Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: We don't have a strong mayor and the change to council/manager will not give us one. That is another whole subject. I agree... The Council-manager form of government (based upon that I have learned) has some good and bad points also. I am still learning about the Council-manager system so I do not want to comment until I decide on which form of government I prefer. The question I was addressing was "what problems do I see with the current system and what would need to be done to address them." I hope I did just that. In regard to Don W. not posting on this forum anymore...I am disappointed since I still have to decide on who I am going to elect ( I hope that I cast one vote for myself... but that leaves two other votes for me to cast). I honestly hope he reconsiders! Differing points of view and opinions are healthy and necessary to our form of government. If you do not believe that, then politics is not for you. I believe it is the founding principal upon which our government thrives. This is my first time running for any type of political office and I am learning the ropes (along with many others). Politics are not for the "thin skinned" and in that regard I may have some trouble. However, my father raised me to stick to my principles and be fair. Yes, this philosophy can (and will) bite you from time to time...but that is ok! It makes you stronger and allows you to learn from your mistakes. |
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lovettrp Member
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FatPappy wrote: GRITS wrote: Thank you... I hope if given the opportnity to represent the Town of Summerfield I will not disappoint to much! If I do ... please vote in a better candidate! |
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Hairbrush Member
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If you didn't have differing of opinions then there would be no need for discussion and change. In my point of view then life would be pretty boring. There certainly wouldn't be much learning going on because everyone would be thinking the same. Guess we wouldn't really need a town council then either. |
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FatPappy Member
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lovettrp wrote:
Well, I'm proud to see you out there and in some ways I think people's skin can get too thick. I'd rather feel a little pain now and then than feel nothing. I know I'm human and I care when that happens. I know you said you haven't decided on council-manager, so I'm not trying to pressure you in any way, but I think your situation is a good example of one of the advantages the council-manager system offers. An expert manager with training and experience in how the government works would offer a safety net of stability in the day to day operations while the council is in transition. Just a thought. |
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GRITS Member
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lovettrp wrote:
Yes, you did answer the question and quite well I may add. I just did not want to post it again. The mayor has little power in summerfield and I personally would like to see that change. From my understanding, Becky Strickland and Dwayne Crawford were able to get the mayor's voting power removed when they were elected to office--I disagree with this. As far as too many chiefs and not enough indians -- you hit the nail on the head! In order for the mayor to have more control of his board, he must be strong willed and have the ability to delegate responsibilities. |
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lovettrp Member
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FatPappy wrote:
Very valid point. The Greensboro ice hockey referee association (of which I belong) had problems about three to four years ago even more sever than the "transition" problems you mention. All board members were up for election every two years... talk about a transition problem! I made a recommendation, that was later later adopted by the general membership, to reduce some transition issues by staggering the terms of the board members. Pres. and Vice Pres. on alternate election terms, Treasurer and Secretary on alternate election terms... etc. We now have better continuity between boards following elections. Our case in Summerfield is even more troublesome in that we are dealing with a government that has important decisions to make vs. a non-profit group of referees that just need to have games scheduled and paychecks sent . |
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GRITS Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: dwendelken wrote:I too voiced my opinion on Tuesday and I got lableled. I will continue to go forward with a positive campaign. Unfortunately I will not be participating in this forum after reviewing the previous posts. I agree Steve, if a candidate wants MY vote he/she MUST reach out to me. A candidate must be VERY VOCAL during the campaigning process to appeal to all voters. I learn through a candidates vocalization what their "points of interests" "concerns" and their solutions are. I can't agree to disagree if I do not hear from you. A candidate needs to debate his/her view point with other constituents and citizens if they are really serious wanting to be elected to office. This behind the door campaigning only works for silent groups that only want to complain instead of being part of the at large solution. If I propose a question, I would like to have an answer. I am alright with the fact that you may choose to avoid answering the question. That tells me alot about a candidate as well. |
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donwendelken Member
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Alright I am taking the bait! Steve you voted for me in the last election and I appreciate that. I am the same candidate then as I am today. I don't take my marbles and go home- That is not who I am and you are not "just one lousy vote". The group on this forum (not all) admitted they don't want "outsiders" in charge of Summerfield. They have made up there minds and I will concentrate on the 6980 other RESIDENTS in Summerfield. I have put my bio on my website http://www.electdonw.com. This explains who I am and where I have been. If someone has a specific question for me I will be more than happy to answer you on my website. I do not cut and run. See you on my website. Don Last edited on Aug 17th, 2007 08:08 pm by donwendelken |
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Jim Flynt Member
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All of your comments directed to Don beg the question: WHERE are the incumbent Summerfield Town Council members running for reelection and WHY aren't THEY posting here on the NWO Forum? I'm just really curious why those of you who seem to be attacking Don for his earlier statements about not conducting his campaign on the Northwest Observer Forum have been so noticeably quiet about the fact that not one of the Summerfield Town Council incumbents: Bob Williams, Dena Barnes, and Carolyn Collins has or have agreed to post or participate here. Doesn't that refusal to participate on the part of your so called leaders also reflect a complete disregard for citizens? How are the incumbents going to connect with voters? Are the incumbents ever going to chase you down and share their views? Or are you simply falling all over yourselves in an attempt to get them reelected? Why are you giving the three incumbents a Free Pass while correspondingly giving the challengers such a hard time. From my point of observation, the challengers have at least shown enough courage and fortitude to join this Forum and share their views. Those of you making these accusations against the challengers aren't operating under a double standard by any chance are you? Because that would be hypocrisy of the highest order if you were. Last edited on Aug 17th, 2007 03:00 pm by Jim Flynt |
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Hairbrush Member
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Don, thanks for putting up your website. It was very informative. I don't think we were ever meaning outsiders as in the way I think you mean, but am not sure. I think we were talking about outsiders in the meaning of people who do not live in Summerfield. I am concerned about people that have just moved to the community who do not seemed to be involved in the community, not sitting on boards or committees in town, not attending council meetings, such things like that. I want my council members to be involved in the town they are representing. I think the northwest observer does do a good job of presenting the minutes of the council meetings, but they could not put the whole presentation that PCOG gave on the Council-Manger form of Government. Nor could they report totally that the Town Attorney felt in his opinion that once the council decided to give the right to the people to vote on whether they wanted a council-manger type of government that the council should not be giving their opinion. It would look like they were biasing the vote. When the process started back in January or February we could ask the council about how they felt about the change in government. The Northwest Observer ran some good articles on the form of government. The PGOG informative session that the council set up was very good. I think the public hearing for the form the referendum was held in June and the council voted in June to put it to referendum. Then the board of elections said that it would be best to hold another public hearing and vote on the intent to vote to put it to referendum because of the way the ruling read (someone correct me if I have this wrong). In my opinion what Becky Strickland did at the last council meeting was against the advice of the Town attorney and did bias the vote. Now whether that holds any merit or not I do not know, but I guess we will probably find out after the election in November. |
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Skiddles Member 
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Don I have just viewed your website and I found it very informative. Thank you for offering another way for us to find out more about you. Mr. Lovett I appreciate your candidness and commitment in answering all the questions asked. Job well done so far! I like what I'm reading. Thank you both for participating from a positive forum reader and yes, we are out there! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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WHERE are the INCUMBENTS? WHY aren't THEY posting here and sharing their views with voters? ARE they that ASHAMED of their RECORD? WHY aren't ALL of YOU giving them HECK? Last edited on Aug 18th, 2007 02:33 am by Jim Flynt |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Where is you indignation in Stokesdale or Oak Ridge for the incumbants? Stokesdale has almost as large a field as does Summerfield. Give us a break! What difference does it make to you what the incumbants do in Summerfield? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: What difference does it make to you what the incumbants do in Summerfield? Let me get this straight: You don't think what Summerfield incumbents do is important to voters? |
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twinbolt Member
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Your not helping by twisting words. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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The question remains: Whether or not Summerfield Town Council incumbents have any obligation to answer to the voters? A simple YES or NO answer will suffice. Incumbents either run ON their record OR they run FROM their record. When incumbent candidates run on their record, they are not at all mute in bragging about that record and what they have done. Which begs the question: Why are the three incumbents so silent now? Why are they so visibly absent? Last edited on Aug 18th, 2007 04:07 am by Jim Flynt |
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twinbolt Member
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But sir, Summerfield voters and incumbants don't answer to you. Why not let them work it out. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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The twisting of words..... an art form to be sure. Pretty easy to tell who's mouth those twisted words came out of in my opinion, but that's neither here nor there. We'll be seeing more twists coming at us from all angles in the coming months so beware..... As for the incumbents, if you were paying ANY ATTENTION at all on this forum back during the days preceeding Black Tuesday (the 2005 election), many of us stated that we felt that it wouldn't be wise for a sitting council member IN ANY TOWN to join a public forum of any type. That was my opinion then and it is now - and several others agreed with me. The council's voting records are public record. If you want to go look, go look. Why would you even try to insinuate that they have something to hide? Puhleese! If I want to know where they stand on an issue, I just call them! If you were paying any attention at all back then, you also read where I wrote that I ALSO did not BLAME Strickland or Crawford AT ALL for NOT joining the forum. Too many opportunities exist for people to twist their words if they spend time on a forum such as this. Enough said on that. I don't give a hoot whether or not Don, Doug or Rich (or any non-incumbents) continue to participate on this forum. Wait! Before you twist my words, I REALLY appreciate it when they do participate, but it is entirely their decision to do so and I don't judge them based on their participation on the forum OR decide how to vote based on their participation on the forum. I will also call any of them if I need to know their position on something and would hope that they would welcome my call. I believe it was Don's exit strategy that angered some of the participants. Again, his decision. Doug left, (if he is indeed gone), more quietly, and it was pretty much glossed over. The posts that have occurred over the past couple of days is a prime example of how words can be twisted to suit an agenda. The original post (mine) that started this conversation stated how Wendelken, Canavello and Flowers sided on an ISSUE. That is a fact and it is public record. The fact that the Concerned Citizens (their "label" not mine) are also on the same side of that same ISSUE (also a fact and also public record thanks to Strickland going against Bill Hill's advice to NOT voice an opinion (also a fact - also public record)) was not really meant to cause an argument, simply to inform those who did not attend the meeting of where those 3 candidates sided on the ISSUE. BTW, welcome to the forum Twinbolt! |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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As far as I can tell this is still a fee country more or less and there are approximately 4 candidates out of 28 who are posting on the forums. There is no law requiring the candidates to be on this forum infact I believe the attorney in Summerfield has advised the Town Council to be very careful about coming on public fourms. I believe that was Bill Trevarow when I was on the council. I further thought this site was to discuss thoughts and ideas not taunt people. |
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FatPappy Member
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We haven't even started the official candidates forum yet anyway. I didn't even think about the incumbents bein' on here, mainly because they're a known entity. I was more interested in learnin' about the newcomers. Mr Lovett has done a fine job of introducing himself and lettin' us know how he thinks and I respect him a lot for that. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Well said Pappy. All the incumbents are and always have been very open and approachable. Call them or email either way works. This website has a link to the Town website for their email addresses. All who have paid attention to the past votes and actions of the incumbents know where they stand. They have noting to be ashamed of. I may not agree with everything they do but they do explain their actions. I cannot say that for Becky Strickland. Her actions are always negative towards the Town or the volunteers. The incumbents have never said or done anything to my knowledge negatively against the Town or a volunteer. That's just my opinion. |
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Skiddles Member
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I have to agree with the others in the fact that the incumbents have years of history for all to see. How they have viewed and voted on issues is a matter of public record. There is nothing for them to hide. I have found all of them to be very approachable, polite and eager to answer questions when I've called them. They are a known entity and this is not a mandatory forum for candidacy. I find it the job of the newbie’s which want the incumbent’s seat to share who they are and what changes they would bring to the job. I appreciate the ones that have participated on the forum and for sharing their options with us. It has helped me learn who they are. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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EDITED BY SUPER MODERATOR. BACK ON TOPIC. Last edited on Aug 21st, 2007 02:29 am by |
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Jim Flynt Member
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EDITED BY SUPER MODERATOR. BACK ON TOPIC. Last edited on Aug 21st, 2007 02:31 am by |
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Super Moderator Super Moderator
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The topic of this forum is "Summerfield Town Council." Please stay on topic. THIS MESSAGE WAS TO BOTH OF THE PRIOR POSTERS. BACK ON TOPIC Last edited on Aug 21st, 2007 02:32 am by Super Moderator |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Post edited by Super Moderator. Off topic. Flame ideas, not people. Last edited on Aug 21st, 2007 02:35 am by |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Post deleted by Super Moderator. Off topic, flaming people, not ideas. Last edited on Aug 21st, 2007 02:38 am by |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Post deleted by Super Moderator. Off topic, flaming people, not ideas. Last edited on Aug 21st, 2007 02:42 am by |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Cuz, I guess I am going to have to send out letter to each and every one of the Summerfield registered voters too asking them WHY the Northwest Observer doesn't want the truth told. I think Summerfield voters are smart enough to ask what it is the NWO Observer has to hide. The truth shall set you free. IF you can find it in the Northwest. PS: Cuz, as you know, I already have the peel off labels for every registered voter in Stokesdale, Oak Ridge and Summerfield as well as over 3,000 envelopes and stamps which I had purchased to use in the fall elections. No better time to use them than now! Last edited on Aug 21st, 2007 02:55 am by Jim Flynt |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Thank-You to the Northwest Observer Moderator for helping make the case for complete and total change on the Summerfield Town Council in the upcoming elections. You are a political challenger's dream come true. One of this year's subrosa or secondary issues may well be the NWO's uneven and underhanded treatment of some political candidates in Summerfield. There is clearly a double standard at work here and people of intelligence can see it. Last edited on Aug 21st, 2007 02:06 pm by Jim Flynt |
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FatPappy Member
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There's always that awkward moment for bystanders when a child has a public temper tantrum to get attention. Should we ignore it for fear of giving the child exactly what he wants: attention? Jim Flynt wrote: You folks are a political consultant's dream come true. Personal vendettas thinly disguised as politically savvy "truth" from a "political consultant" are still just personal vendettas. It's sad to watch. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: It's sad to watch. It will be even sadder for you to watch on Election Night when the returns come in. |
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StewartM Member
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There is nothing sad on election night except for the people who did not use their right to vote....but then again its their right..... |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Mike, you have been close to the political process. Why is it, do you think, that so many people unfortunately choose not to participate in the political process and vote? Is there anything that could be done to change that? |
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lovettrp Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Mike, you have been close to the political process. Why is it, do you think, that so many people unfortunately choose not to participate in the political process and vote? Is there anything that could be done to change that? My feelings as to the reason people do not choose to exercise there legislated right to vote can be summed up as follows: 1.) Candidates running negative ads vs. explaining their plan and how it can benefit the community (without the negative contrast to other candidates). 2.) People believing that their vote does not matter. 3.) Complacency... ok with the status quo. 4.) Not involved with the community or they feel that they are not informed enough to cast a knowledgeable vote. How to fix this? Engage the voters and encourage them to become part of the solution. Be involved. Question their elected officials. Make educated decisions. Be positive! Stop finger pointing!! Be part of the solution and don't keep rehashing the problem!!! Remember you can lead a horse to water but you can not turn someone into an educated voter unless they want to be changed. |
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StewartM Member
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I agree with Mr Lovett but will add 5. Lazy 6. To busy with family and life 7. Just don't care 8. They think enough people that think the same way they do will vote It will depend on what group fires up the voters (even with lies)and get them to show up to the polls.... If only people knew what some true Americans have done to give them this right........ |
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Shamu Member
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Skiddles wrote: I have to agree with the others in the fact that the incumbents have years of history for all to see. How they have viewed and voted on issues is a matter of public record. There is nothing for them to hide. Really, nothing for them to hide? How about secret committees? Who selected the so-called Friddle ballfield site in January 2007? Answer: A secret committee made up of Town Administrator, a Town Council member who owns adjacent commercial property, the President of Summerfield Recreation Association and his 12 year old son, and a real estate agent who has since lost his license in June. In 2004, the council at the time, consisting of Williams, Barnes, Collins, and currently non-council members Stewart and Doggett, used secret real estate agents and illegal violations of the Open Meeting laws of North Carolina to try and get what they wanted. Yeah, they're good to go!! |
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Skiddles Member
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I guess what I was trying to express with my comment is that the incumbents are on the record in how they have voted and what they have said during public meetings. Now, I'm not sure about those secret committees you are referring to. To my knowledge the town announced publicly that they were looking for land suited for ballfields in 2007 and asked for ideas, help and involvement from the community. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Shamu, from my experience, being the nice guy (or gal) isn't enough to win a political election. Remember, the candidate has to make the case for CHANGE. |
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DOGGETTJA Member
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Sorry Shamu but there were no illegal meetings held to buy Rabbit hollow or any where else for that matter while I was on the council. We held those meetings with Mr. Travarrow, town Aattorney present and with his full knowledge and experience. I am sure that you and the rest of the neighbors on Rabbit Hollow would have had us in court if it had been illegal. |
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BreBre Member 
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Who is REALLY running this town? I say we form another group apart from the CCS, FFS, and the TC. (that was a joke) Summerfield is the laughing stock of NW Greensboro. I hope the NEW elected officials can get Summerfield's good name back and do away with all of these insignificant groups, or don't let the groups try to fatten their pockets. With all these groups I am embarassed to say that I live in Summerfield. Well...Now that the forum is coming to an end, maybe we can all gather at the expensive ballfields that will be built and fellowship there. By the way what is going to happen to the old ballfields? Why can't they be fixed up? It's been nice to chat with you people and to see everyones opinions. |
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FatPappy Member
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Shamu and the CCs will twist this and anything else they can think of to get elected. That's all they care about. You don't think these hotheads care about you do you? They're using you! Summerfield, please, find out the truth, independent of both sides. Don't let them ruin good people's reputations. That's not right. You know it's not right. It's up to you to stop this kind of twisted game. Don't take my word or their word for it. Find out the truth for yourself. THIS IS YOUR TOWN! ACT LIKE IT! |
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lovettrp Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: Shamu, from my experience, being the nice guy (or gal) isn't enough to win a political election.I respectfully disagree. First of all nice can be subjective. Secondly, I view myself as a nice guy and I am runnig to win! I, however, am going about it differently than most; honest views, candid speak, and no mud slinging. I am striving to be a gentleman that truly believes in my own opinions/points of view but willing to listen to all points of view. By doing that you can make a case for change! Remember just because it is easy (speaking negatively about council members and fellow candidates) and politically expediant, does not make it right. I challenge all candidates to take the high road...I know it is harder by it will pay off by showing everyone your integrity, self respect and certian level of class! Lets get back to the important issues... how/where/when/why do we improve Summerfield! Last edited on Aug 23rd, 2007 03:14 am by lovettrp |
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BreBre Member
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lovettrp wrote: I respectfully disagree. First of all nice can be subjective. Secondly, I view myself as a nice guy and I am runnig to win! I, however, am going about it differently than most; honest views, candid speak, and no mud slinging. I am striving to be a gentleman how that truly believes in my own opinions/points of view but willing to listen to all points of view. By doing that you can make a case for change! Remember just because it is easy (speaking negatively about council members and fellow candidates) and politically expediant does not make it right. I challenge all candidates to take the high road...I know it is harder by it will pay off by showing everyone your integrity, self respect and certian level of class! You've got my vote, especially if you don't take bribes, and if you aren't someones puppet in the CCS, FFS, or the TC.  |
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Jim Flynt Member
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In any election, if you don't make the case for change, then there is no change. In which case no matter what you do or how you conduct yourself as a challenger, you still lose. And if you are not running to win, then why are you running? |
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FatPappy Member
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lovettrp wrote:Remember just because it is easy (speaking negatively about council members and fellow candidates) and politically expediant, does not make it right. Soundin' good as always, Mr Lovett! |
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stokesdale Member
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Skiddles, If the Committies were secret and the meetings were so secret Makes one wonder how Shamu knows so much. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: Soundin' good as always, Mr Lovett! Pappy's going to vote for all of the incumbents, but I agree with him, it does SOUND good. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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stokesdale wrote: Makes one wonder how Shamu knows so much. Maybe he lives across the street from the meeting? |
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BreBre Member
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stokesdale wrote:
Maybe Shamu is a mad relative or a friend letting everyone know what's going on, you think? Just a thought since you brought it up. Are you part of the FFS, CCs, or TC? Hmmmm... |
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macca Member 
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Na-Na-Na-Na-Boo-Boo! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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BreBre wrote: Are you part of the FFS, CCs, or TC? Hmmmm... Nope. I'm NONE of the above. |
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FatPappy Member
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Jim Flynt wrote:FatPappy wrote:Soundin' good as always, Mr Lovett! Admit it. You'll miss me when I'm gone! I'm not a grand political insultant, I mean CONsultant, I'm just some guy who lives here, but I know what sounds good and what don't. |
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FatPappy Member
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Summerfield resident? Summerfield voter? Jim Flynt wrote: Nope. I'm NONE of the above. Aw, come on, Jim. Ya gotta admit that was a good'n. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: Admit it. You'll miss me when I'm gone! Pappy, absolutely. I will honestly miss you. While we disagreed ever so much over politics and political discussions, I always did think (and still do) that you are one wonderful, talented, creative and awesome writer. I have said it before: you should write a book (please don't feel obligated to dedicate it to me though). No doubt, perhaps the real reason you and I clashed so much is likely that you and I are so much alike (God forbid that either of us would ever say or admit that). So Happy Trails to you Old Friend. I would give all that I own to possess even a fraction of your humor and creative writing skills, and please know, that in all my many travels, you always more than kept me on my toes in those silly senseless debates we had like no one else ever has or ever will have with me again. Pappy, you really are the best. Even if we still can agree to disagree! I will of course miss you. Sayonara until tomorrow. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: Summerfield resident? Summerfield voter? On a scale of 1 to 10, that was about a 20. You whupped the young pup once again. |
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StewartM Member
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Shamu wrote:
Shamu you know this is not true, there was nothing illegal. We hired a real estate agent to negotiate buying land that was for sale on the open market (for ballfields) to get a good price for the citizen of Summerfield. This was how our attorney advised us was the best way to do this. We did change the way to a open process that cost more but is better. I have never attend a illegal meeting or violate the open meeting laws. Since you are running for office start by telling the truth. The facts are at Town Hall. |
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Hairbrush Member
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BreBre back to your question about the old ballfields. They have been fixed up, but the town doesn't own the land. The school does and as fast as the town is growing the school is going to need that land. The association keeps those fields in good working order but there is no where else to expand and they are turning children away. Soon the school is going to look at the town and say sorry we need that land to put up some trailers to handle the overflow of children we have. Children need ballparks so they need to go somewhere and I think we as town need to supply them. |
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Baseball Buddy Member
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Shamu wrote: Skiddles wrote:I have to agree with the others in the fact that the incumbents have years of history for all to see. How they have viewed and voted on issues is a matter of public record. There is nothing for them to hide. This was not a secret committee! All of these people sat on the Parks and Recreation Committee except my 12 year old who was 11 at the time. We all road in my Suburban and looked at 20 or more properties at different times. The Committee then narrowed it down to 9 properties. Then to 3. Then to 1. The Friddle property. This was done through several meetings and months. I personally had over 4 years in this with the help of Tom Valent (the Real Estate agent who had his license revoked). I was asked by the committee to speak in front of the Town Council of the need to move on this piece of property and the need for ballfields. After I spoke we were made aware of 2 more pieces of property that had come available. 1 of them I had already looked at 2 years prior, the other was not in the Corporate limits of the Town and was never considered. The next week I was told that Becky Strickland was sending a article to the GSO News and Record slamming our Mayor, Town Administrator, Myself, and other volunteers of SRA. I was asked to write a rebuttal, and did so. During the next Parks and Rec committee meeting a member who I had not seen but at 1 meeting in a year shows up and starts telling the committee they had not done their 'Due Diligence" and starts Monday morning Quarterbacking all the hard work that has been done. Speaking out against the Friddle property because it was close to his own. This was showing great NIMBY ism and not caring what was best for the Town. Now you want to talk of "Secret Meetings". Tell us about the "Meet the candidates meeting" That was held by the CC's where the incumbents were not invited. I'll bet it was really a meeting to see what could be done to get the incumbents out and the CC's in. |
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BreBre Member
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Again, all of these so called "groups" are such an embarassement to this town!  They should DISBAND and let the TC do the job that we appointed them to do. |
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StewartM Member
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Amen BreBre..... |
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GRITS Member
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Shamu wrote:
Shamu, now you have really crossed the line with this remark. Go ahead and smear you OWN campaign by telling lies about good, honest citizens of Summerfield. It is one thing to make negative remarks toward incumbents, since you are running for town council. But when you start attacking a 12 year old child and making false accusations of a minor being on secret committees for ballfields it is time for me to take a stand and be an advocate. This 12 year old you speak of is my son. This SRA President is my husband. This real-estate broker that lost is license is my good friend. Too bad you will not come out and make this comment using your other screen name. What have you got to hide? I suppose it doesn't look good for a candidate to make false statements using his real name. Face it, you are not for Summerfield---if you were , you would have been very instrumental in purchasing the right piece of property for ballfields from the very beginning. Instead, you and your group of Concerned Citizens retaliate by hiring lawyers to "threaten" to sue the town because you think the town has done something "illegal". From what I hear, you guys are up to the same old tactic again because you disagree with how Wray now sits on the town council. My advice to you is stop crying, accept it, and learn how to work with it instead of wasting your time fighting it. Face it , if you were for Summerfield, you would at least be trying to achieve a common goal. You also made a comment regarding town council officials having conflicts of interest wanting to put the ball fields on old Summerfield road, something about "good old fashion money being put in their pockets". Are you wanting a piece of the pie? Is this why you are running for council? Have you returned the Cape Fear Shiner to it's natural habitat (umm the watershed). I hope it still isn't living in the aquarium. Isn't this and endangered species? Have you gotten anymore deer stands lately? (that information came from the horse's mouth--not from the SRA President). I can give you the time and date of when I was told this. I am going to put a sign in my yard that says Summerfield -- Don't be SHAMMED; (you can fill in the rest). Whitney Lee --aka GRITS (girl raised in true Summerfield) Last edited on Aug 23rd, 2007 12:51 pm by GRITS |
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