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ervinjo
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Mana: 
What are the plans for the new park?  What will be featured?  What sports will be catered to?  And what becomes of the current Community Park?  Does that land go to waste?  :X

Could the town bring in "outside revenues" by creating a park space that provides attractions other townships don't have?  Disc Golf course?  Public Golf(PAR 3)?  Boccie Ball courts?(senior games)

macca
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Mana: 
I think there will be meetings so citizens can present ideas about what they'd like to see go there.

macca
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Mana: 
Sorry, forgot something.... This property does not replace currrent park. Any rec fields it would have would be in addition to what the parks & rec offers.

zippitydoodah
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Tennis, anyone?

macca
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I heard someone wanted to have a skateboarding park like in Kernersville...

zippitydoodah
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Mana: 
I read in the NWO that they are doing surveys in Oak Ridge and Summerfield. Are they going to do that here? I think it is a good idea. There are lots of good ideas out there, and people might be able to brainstorm and come up with ideas of how to make them happen at low cost. Anybody on the town council listening?

yoleader
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It is my understanding that TC has chosen a design firm to prepare a Master Sketch plan for the development of the property on Angel-Pardue Rd.  Part of that process early on will be public input to determine what the Town wants & needs. 

zippitydoodah
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So when do we get to see what this firm has come up with?

Vicki White-Lawrence
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OKAY EVERYONE!!! LET'S REVIVE THIS TOPIC!!! (Maybe this will help us get a lively Stokesdale forum going!)

IT LOOKS AS THOUGH THE STOKESDALE TOWN COUNCIL WILL BEGIN CONSIDERING WHAT TO DO WITH THIS PROPERTY (25 ACRES LOCATED ON ANGEL-PARDUE ROAD) LATER THIS SPRING. A SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COUNCIL HAS STARTED MEETING MONTHLY TO WORK ON THIS. AT ITS MARCH MEETING A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ARCHITECTURAL FIRM WILL BE PRESENT. SOMETIME AFTER THAT A SERIES OF PUBLIC MEETINGS WILL BE HELD TO GET PUBLIC INPUT ON WHAT RESIDENTS WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THERE.

THEY ARE CONSIDERING PLACEMENT OF SOME KIND OF BUILDING (MAYBE TEMPORARY, MAYBE NOT) THAT COULD SERVE AS A TOWN HALL AS WELL AS FOR STORAGE, IN ADDITION TO SOME KIND OF RECREATION, WHICH COULD BE ANYTHING FROM PLAYING FIELDS TO WALKING TRAILS....

LET'S GET SOME "CHATTER" GOING ABOUT THIS! WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE DONE WITH THE PROPERTY?

zippitydoodah
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So they haven't come up with anything yet? Why is this project moving so slow?

zippitydoodah
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macca wrote: I heard someone wanted to have a skateboarding park like in Kernersville...I hope not. Stokesdale don't need that kind of place.

macca
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Zippy, What have you heard about the park in K'ville? ♥♥♥

zippitydoodah
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Okay, I guess you called me on that one. I haven't really heard anything. I just have this idea in my head of teenagers who are on the "unsavory" side comming here and using the park and maybe loitering around town and causing trouble.

Have you heard anything about it?

JStogdale
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Mana: 
My opinions about the land will be voiced at the meetings. But in short, I believe the land where the existing ballparks are, could be developed to provide all sports and activities.:cool: There is approx. 20 acres there now , and maybe the opportunity to acquire some more in the future from surrounding undeveloped land. I don't understand why we need to start over with a ball park ,when we have the makings of a great recreational area started already.

Last edited on Feb 26th, 2006 01:45 pm by JStogdale

macca
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Mana: 
For some reason, I thought there was some issue about accessing the current park. Is it surrounded by land already owned by the park board? Are there other ways that could be developed in and out of it?

JStogdale
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Mana: 
If there is an Issue of access, I have not been involved long enough to know, but would be interested in that information. However, I am now involved, and  from my standpoint, looking at the overhead photographs and land graphs at my disposal, I see a multi-level park with access from the Northeast (Capri), access from the West(Mcrory)and In my opinion(The Best Way) some sort of agreement to purchase land for Park expansion ,An entrance from the south (El Bree off prince Edward. Or Directly off Hwy 68.). With the Right Development and Community support I believe there is the makings of a Landmark Recreation Facility.

Last edited on Feb 27th, 2006 05:05 pm by JStogdale

ervinjo
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zippitydoodah wrote: Okay, I guess you called me on that one. I haven't really heard anything. I just have this idea in my head of teenagers who are on the "unsavory" side comming here and using the park and maybe loitering around town and causing trouble.

Have you heard anything about it?

It is very hard for me not to speak from a defensive place on your comment.  You spoke with a stereotype in the back of your mind.  An ignorant stereotype at that.  I believe people who have never been exposed to skateboarding, or don't know anything about it or its participants are directly responsible for the stereotype being formed.

I.E.  kids who skateboard need a place to do it.  This involves areas that are paved.  Also, areas that are paved that also provide terrain to do other trick variations, like curbs, railings, parking blocks, transitions, etc. are very desirable.  Owners of such property are not thrilled about skateboarders using their property ,for whatever reason, but we see here, most of it is from a stereotypical belief pattern.  Thus the skateboarders are caught in a no-man's land where they don't have a place to go and practise.

Give them a place to go!  And they will be out of harms way and out of your way.

Trust me, your all American football and baseball players are out breaking windows and smoking dope also!

Steve Adkins
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Y'all are free to continue this discussion, but I am going to post the appropriate comment from the recently adopted forum guidelines, and urge you to stay within this guideline in your discussions
  • Don't make personal attacks; flame ideas, not people

JStogdale
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Mana: 
I am not at all against a skateboard park, I feel skateboarding takes a great amount of skill and athleticism, and often, find myself amazed at what can be done, and has been achieved on a skateboard since I rode one some 20 years ago. I do not feel different about those who skate by the way they express themselves. But, I feel at this point, Stokesdale Parks and Recreation  should lay the groundwork with the 3 grassroots sports, ie.. Baseball, Soccer, Football get proficient and financially stable in conducting those operations, then move into the more progressive sports.

zippitydoodah
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ervinjo wrote: zippitydoodah wrote: Okay, I guess you called me on that one. I haven't really heard anything. I just have this idea in my head of teenagers who are on the "unsavory" side comming here and using the park and maybe loitering around town and causing trouble.

Have you heard anything about it?

It is very hard for me not to speak from a defensive place on your comment.  You spoke with a stereotype in the back of your mind.  An ignorant stereotype at that.  I believe people who have never been exposed to skateboarding, or don't know anything about it or its participants are directly responsible for the stereotype being formed.

I.E.  kids who skateboard need a place to do it.  This involves areas that are paved.  Also, areas that are paved that also provide terrain to do other trick variations, like curbs, railings, parking blocks, transitions, etc. are very desirable.  Owners of such property are not thrilled about skateboarders using their property ,for whatever reason, but we see here, most of it is from a stereotypical belief pattern.  Thus the skateboarders are caught in a no-man's land where they don't have a place to go and practise.

Give them a place to go!  And they will be out of harms way and out of your way.

Trust me, your all American football and baseball players are out breaking windows and smoking dope also!

OK ervinjo, I deserved that. Once macca asked me what I had heard about the park in Kville and I thought about it, I relized my comment was off base. Sorry to any one out there that I offended.

Yes, skateboarders are athletes too. Believe me, I would never try some of the stuff they do. I would much rather see them practising in a park built for that purpose than practising on the streets.

Your comment about "all American football and baseball players breaking windows and smoking dope" is probably true, but not some thing most of us want to think about. I'd rather see a park that caters to as many groups as possible and gives them a safe place to practise their sport, whatever it is, than see any kids out on the street getting hurt or into trouble.

ervinjo
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Mana: 
I am sorry if there was a perception of someone being personally flamed.  I was trying to flame stereotypical ideas and beliefs, not a person/people.

zippitydoodah
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Mana: 
I didn't take it personally. And as I said, I probably deserved it anyway. I was definitely just thinking about sterotypes, and that wasn't fair.

The good thing about this forum is that we can say things to challenge each other and exchange ideas of lots of different subjects.

Waytago
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Interesting Discussion.

Most of the "skateboarders" I have seen are the younger ones wanting to imitate the acrobatics they see on TV.

My teenaged son fell into this category.  Took him awhile to figure out it was harder than it looked, and the asphalt was pretty unforgiving.  No broken bones, but plenty of scrapes & bruises.

I personally think it would be neat to have a skateboarding facility, but it would have to be monitored...........not just "out there".  Too much liability.  

DToney
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Mana: 
I agree with keeping the existing park and making it more accessible.  Adding to what we have would be more cost efficient for starters.  Why would we want to start over with a brand new facility when we already have the start of something nice? 

Better access, walking trails, tennis courts, playground equipment, would be a good start at making what we have more usable for everyone.  After we have something most people could utilze, maybe then consider a skateboard park.  How many skateboarders are there in Stokesdale vs how many could enjoy other ammenities?  I know I'm dreaming here, but a pool would be fabulous!  Talk about liability... that is one thing to consider for sure!

Are Stokesdale residents able to voice any opinion on the new YMCA that was recently written about in the Observer?  Man!  I think that would be the greatest!  Then we would have a place to swim, exercise, etc without having to drive to Greensboro! 

Last edited on Mar 19th, 2006 08:13 pm by DToney

zippitydoodah
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Mana: 
I don't think anybody has said anything about getting rid of the existing park. The problem is, there's not much to it, and I don't know how much room there is to expand it. It's kind of down in a hole as it is, so I don't know how many improvements they could do to it.

The other problem is the Stokesdale Rec Association keeps saying they don't have enough room. With all the kids moving into this area, they need MORE playing fields. I don't know where they could fit any more, much less tennis courts or playground equipment at the existing park.

ff12
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Mana: 
Everyone should take a drive to Walkertown and see their par facilities. soccer/football fields,baseball/softball diamond, walking track(not that we need another one) tennis court, basketball court, shelters and plent of trees and other flora and fauna. While you are in Walkertown check out their public library. Oh yeah i like the idea of a skate park/bike area in the new park. How about a bmx or mountain bike course?

ff12
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Mana: 
doe,s anyone know how to organize a funrun, maybe schedule it for the same day ha,s the parade. I do know it will not be as easy here as it is in summerfield because of 158,68and 65 being heavily traveled and the undestandable reluctance to shut these down. personally i wouldnt want to have to run on these roads. Ifwe had the park built we could use the back  roads, then when theyget the mountain bike course built we could have trials there, and all day music festivals.       sometimes you just gotta ramble on..........

DToney
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Mana: 
I've never organized a fun run, but we could have one behind Main street or in some of our neighborhoods, or even behind the fire house.  I guess what I'm saying is where there is a will there is a way... The music festival idea is great too.... we used to live in Columbia, SC & they had one every weekend at Findlay Park.  There is also money to be made for vendors & such.  It would be a great thing to have a real "park" like some of our neighboring communities.  :)

ff12
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Mana: 
excellent article in the nwo today about our park. glad our town council doesn't just jump into things. a well thought out plan will in the end please more people in the end(no taxes and grant money,i love it!!!!!)

DToney
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Mana: 
ff12... I must agree with you!  I'm proud to be assocaited with some a group of leaders that think logically.  A good plan will not only save $$ but also be better served by the community! 

Thanks, Stokesdale Leaders!  :cool:

ff12
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Been doing some reading on different things, now will we help our park be enviromentally friendly. the new town hall should have solar power lots of windows,use recycled water for watering the grass and flushing. Lots of trees, electric mowers, or the old reel type mowers. No vinyl siding.

ff12
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Landscaping with native plants that require little water fertilizer ect.

DToney
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ff12 wrote: Landscaping with native plants that require little water fertilizer ect.
ff12... you've got something there!  Landscaping that requires little attention begins with shrubs.... ornamental shrubs do a good deal for not having to tend to them much... and flowers from seeds like Zinneas that are native to our area... grow well with little attention!

ff12
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Did I miss the park meeting?

Vicki White-Lawrence
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ff12: The Long-Range Finance Committee, which is the group doing the initial work in determining how the Town land will be used, met with the architectural firm this past Tuesday evening at 6:30. They have at least one more meeting before their recommendations are presented to Town Council. A date for the next Committee meeting has not yet been set, although the people from the architectural firm said they'd need 3 to 4 weeks in order to have everything ready for that meeting.

The date for this past meeting was announced at the Aug. 17 Town Council meeting, so we had an announcement of it on the front page of the NWO. The Town also posted a notice of it on the door of Town Hall. I was the only person at the meeting with the architects besides Committee members and Council members. I think this was true of the last meeting as well, although we might not have had as much notice of it as we did of this one.

ff12
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I thought that i had missed it, meant to send an email or  something to get my ideas out there, work schedule prevents  in person contact.

ff12
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Mana: 
No skate park or bike trails in the new park plan? We need a playground like they have at triad park in Colfax(the newest one) and why not copy there rental building as well.

ff12
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Mana: 
Does anyone think we can convince the YMCA to locate here instead of Oak Ridge. Maybe we can work some kind of deal with Summerfield.

ff12
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When is the next park planning meeeting?

ff12
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Mana: 
we were passing thru Kville the other day and at the 4th of July park their skate park was packed with kids and teens, real nice facility.(hint hint)

S. Smith
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Mana: 
ff12 - Do you ever get the feeling you're talking to yourself? Looks like that's what you've been doing on this topic. Sorry we haven't been paying more attention.

What do you think of the plan they've adopted (it was on the front page of the last NWO)?

DToney
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Mana: 
I've been reading... and agreeing!  :cool:

just not a lot of time to post here lately... :?

S. Smith
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Mana: 
Any Stokesdale residents out there have an opinion of the park plan recently adopted by the town council?

macca
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Mana: 
It looks like a good plan, I just hope they get plenty of input from the community and develop the plans the way they need to so the Town can qualify for grants to help get it built!!! We need more ballfields/recreation areas!!! ♥♥♥

macca
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Mana: 
Has anyone heard anything recently about this?

Jim Flynt
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I think in the coming days you are going to see some folks come forward strongly opposed to seeing any new town hall being taken out of the downtown area and built out in the boondocks. What in the world are they thinking?

macca
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Mana: 
Jimbo! What are you talking about? Isn't this property just on the other side of the school? What boondocks are you talking about? Where else could a new town hall be built? Is there land available in the downtown area?

S. Smith
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Mana: 
Depending on how close the 158 bypass is built could make this property right in the heart of things.

Jim Flynt
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Mana: 
S. Smith wrote: Depending on how close the 158 bypass is built could make this property right in the heart of things.


Assuming that the NC Department of Transportation doesn't change the scheduling and priority of this road construction and that there is no shortfall of future highway funds, when would the installation of the 158 bypass occur? Is the location of this future proposed highway actually locked in stone?

Are you suggesting that the old downtown should be abandoned and that there will ultimately be some new downtown at some future date?

Don't you feel that the relocation of the town hall away from the present AND HISTORIC downtown area would be a slap in the face to residents in the core area and the existing downtown businesses? As action by a municpal board, it seems to many of us to be extremely shortsighted and evidence of a total lack of support for the existing community.

The downtown area along Main Street has historically been the primary vista by which most visitors to Stokesdale know Stokesdale and those historic attributes and improvements are in fact, what 'define' this community. To relocate town hall out to the boondocks (as I labeled it), would be to remove what should be the most visible landmark (a community's Town Hall) and relegate it to a tertiary position and location of even more complete irrelevance to the community.


Don't get me wrong: the current town council is so shortsdighted they will no doubt move forward and build their little dream out there in the boondocks. But that will simply leave it for some future town council to go in and clean up their mess, and one day restore the town council building to a visible downtown area where it belongs. A couple of these town council members are just so hell bent on building any building at any location in order to leave 'their legacy' without regard to the fact that their legacy will be one of blind ignorance, ego, and a total lack of vision. Not to mention a gross failure to understand, appreciate and support a vital part of Stokesdale's town history: it's historic downtown. A history which has served us well.


We need an election (town council) in Stokesdale and we need it quick.

Last edited on Jan 28th, 2007 11:28 pm by Jim Flynt

S. Smith
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Mana: 
Okay Jim, I know you love a good debate, and I'm going to give you the other side this one. I don't live in Stokesdale, so I'm purely looking at this from an outsider's point of view.

You are correct about the 158 bypass -- its exact route has not been chosen, and who knows when, or if, it will ever be built. Of course I'm not suggesting that, when it is built, the old downtown area be abandoned. I think Stokesdale's downtown area is lovely, and it is the only local town which actually has a downtown. But just like when a new interstate is built and new businesses crop up around the interchanges, I think that will happen here as well. Unfortunately that does mean just by the sheer volume of the traffic coming through the middle of town that some businesses will suffer. In my mind, that's just a fact, and is in no way meant as a slap in the face of anyone doing business in downtown. 

And as macca pointed out, the town property is right behind the school. Also the Angels Glen development is being built there, and when the park and town hall (and maybe one day other buildings in the "municipal complex" -- such as perhaps a post office or library) are built, that will create a reason for people to come there. In other words, what may seem like the boondocks now probably won't seem that way in a few years. (If you build it, they will come....)

Just a few years ago, I would have thought anyone who said Linville Road would be the "downtown" of Oak Ridge was crazy. After all, I remember when the road was dirt. But then they built the fire department and the post office. Now the town hall and park are being built. The property on the corner has been sold for a credit union. Things are a'changing.

I think it would be wonderful for Stokesdale to have a town hall in the historic downtown area. I'm just not sure where that would be. Like macca, I don't know of that much available land in the "town core" area.

The Town of Stokesdale rented space for years which is quickly becoming too small. Anyone who has ever attended a meeting knows it can be impossible to hear from the traffic outside or if someone tries to carry on an ancillary converation. So at what point do you stop renting a one-bedroom apartment and build your own house? What was fine when you were a bachelor and even a young married person becomes more than just cozy when you have a few kids. At what point does it make sense for you to get your own place and stop giving money to your landlord?

I would argue that, at least from an outsider' perspective, the Stokesdale council is being visionary in their decision.

Jim Flynt
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Mana: 
S. Smith wrote: I would argue that, at least from an outsider' perspective, the Stokesdale council is being visionary in their decision.

Sandra, I am not opposed to the building of the park as planned. I fully support the construction of that park and would pray to support literally dozens of others in the Northwest area. There should be no higher priority than the preservation of open space and recreational lands for our future generations to enjoy, and my support for such is unconditional.

I further support the concept of building a town hall. Just not at this location and for the reasons which I have already ennumerated. Although there are dozens of other reasons equally compelling to argue against the proposed relocation away from the vital and historic downtown. As I have outlined in a PM to both you and Macca, I do feel that there are a few locations in the downtown core area which would be more visible, more accessible, and would continue to show support for the very core of people which assembled as the orginal community, and the original buildings which were responsible for there even being a community here to start with.

It doesn't take a visionary to simply recognize a need recognizable to all but the blind among us. The need for a larger space.

Being visionary means looking for the larger space in the right place. It means finding a location for a town hall in the downtown core area that would require looking ahead and seeing possibilities amidst an area where possibilties don't seem to exist. They are there, one simply has to open their eyes to the possibilities.

Last edited on Jan 29th, 2007 12:00 am by Jim Flynt

macca
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Mana: 
You know, Jimbo, I've been thinking about what you posted, and all the critcism you've thrown at the current Council members. If I remember correctly about the land purchased by the town, they felt as though they got a really good deal on it, that the family who sold it to them did the town a favor by not charging more than they did for the land. I also think I've read phrases from Council members about "being good stewards" with Town funds, and I think they were criticised for taking a long time looking for land to buy. Is land available in the downtown area? If so, is it available at an affordable price? I know I looked at land transfers this week (in that other paper -- sorry, Sandra!) and noted 2 pieces of property that were sold in the downtown area, I think. One was for more than $100,000 and the other was for more than $800,000. I don't know how large these parcels were, but if they are in the "town core" area, I can't imagine that they are all that large. How much land did the town buy, and how much did they pay for it?

If these people who think a Town Hall shouldn't be built on the land that has already been bought are going to come forward, are they also going to offer to help with other land? Can the town afford to develop 2 pieces of land? I know there are folks in recreation programs who are looking forward to more fields to play on.

Jim Flynt
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macca wrote: If these people who think a Town Hall shouldn't be built on the land that has already been bought are going to come forward, are they also going to offer to help with other land?
Macca, I am not sure I understand your comment above. Are you suggesting 'user fees'?

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macca wrote: I know there are folks in recreation programs who are looking forward to more fields to play on.
Macca, just so we can all discuss this subject with the same foundation of understanding, HOW MANY "fields" are there currently in the town limits of Stokesdale and HOW MANY ARE ANTICIPATED TO BE NEEDED?

And when you use the term "fields" what exactly does that mean? Does that mean soccer fields, football fields, lacrosse fields, baseball fields, hockey fields, or what? And in what combination?

If there are indeed not enough "fields", please share with us the reasons why not?

There was never any scarcity when I was growing up and if we needed one, I'm sure we young folks would have just borrowed a father's tractor and gone out and cleared a new field on someone's farm somewhere. Why don't some of these parents do that now instead of running to government every time they want something? Are we really that helpless as a society?

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Jim Flynt wrote:
macca wrote: If these people who think a Town Hall shouldn't be built on the land that has already been bought are going to come forward, are they also going to offer to help with other land?
Macca, I am not sure I understand your comment above. Are you suggesting 'user fees'?


I'm not sure I even know what "user fees" are. What I was asking was, based on the fact that the town already has one piece of land it has already paid for, and that other land (if available in the town core) seems pretty expensive, if, along with requests that Council consider building a town hall in the "downtown" area, would these people also have some suggestions as to how to make that happen? And are they in a position to make it feasible? Meaning affordable and/or available? And do these people have their own agenda in wanting it downtown other than to preserve the current downtown area?

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Jim Flynt wrote:
macca wrote: I know there are folks in recreation programs who are looking forward to more fields to play on.
Macca, just so we can all discuss this subject with the same foundation of understanding, HOW MANY "fields" are there currently in the town limits of Stokesdale and HOW MANY ARE ANTICIPATED TO BE NEEDED?

And when you use the term "fields" what exactly does that mean? Does that mean soccer fields, football fields, lacrosse fields, baseball fields, hockey fields, or what? And in what combination?

If there are indeed not enough "fields", please share with us the reasons why not?

There was never any scarcity when I was growing up and if we needed one, I'm sure we young folks would have just borrowed a father's tractor and gone out and cleared a new field on someone's farm somewhere. Why don't some of these parents do that now instead of running to government every time they want something? Are we really that helpless as a society?


I don't have a copy of that issue of the NW Observer in front of me right now, but there were some kinds of fields included on the property along with a town hall building.

In terms of playing fields, as far as I know, there is one park in Stokesdale. Judging by all the cars and people crammed into that area, that park seems to be bustin' at the seams! In terms of clearing land on somebody's farm -- I don't know anything about how you'd go about finding out what farmer might have land they'd let people clear, but you also get into liability issues. I think there is some kind of Parks & Rec group that runs programs, but just at the park, and maybe now basketball at the school.... I know Guilford County is adding more parks, and of course, Oak Ridge is now..... I guess we could just expect other communities to provide recreation for folks who live in Stokesdale, but it would be nice to have more opportunities here. So, back in the day, if you wanted to play a little ball, you had to go get your own field first? I would think it would be obvious that we've got more and more folks moving here, and those folks have kids. I don't think people are "running to government" -- I think Parks & Rec is all volunteer, a nonprofit group like you're trying to set up for the tree area downtown -- but there is just so much land available right now that folks are welcoming the opportunity to have more....

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macca wrote:  And do these people have their own agenda in wanting it downtown other than to preserve the current downtown area?
It seems to most of us that you wouldn't erect a billboard at the end of a dead end street out in the middle of nowhere, but rather along a busy highway with visibility. In a great sense, a town hall becomes a rather significant billboard for a community. And the choice is whether a community either displays such a town hall with pride along it's main vista or hides it out in the middle of nowhere. A town government which is visible is certainly more relevant to it's citizens as opposed to one which is hidden and out of sight of the average day to day driver, pedestrian, and citizen.  

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macca wrote:

(1) In terms of playing fields, as far as I know, there is one park in Stokesdale. Judging by all the cars and people crammed into that area, that park seems to be bustin' at the seams!
(2) In terms of clearing land on somebody's farm -- I don't know anything about how you'd go about finding out what farmer might have land they'd let people clear, but you also get into liability issues. (3) .....to provide recreation for folks who live in Stokesdale, but it would be nice to have more opportunities here. (4) So, back in the day, if you wanted to play a little ball, you had to go get your own field first? (5) I would think it would be obvious that we've got more and more folks moving here, and those folks have kids. I don't think people are "running to government"
I have broken down your response (which failed to address my specific earlier questions by the way), in order to address each of the points you have made, and numbered them to make it easier to follow the discussion.

(1) There is one park in Stokesdale as you say, which includes more than one playing field. Again, I would ask you, what is the total number of fields available in Stokesdale currently and what number is needed? How many children live in the town limits of Stokesdale between the ages of 6 and 18? How does that number (the total number of Stokesdale children) equate to ACTUAL NEED?

As an aside, we all need to be reminded that the Stokesdale Park was originally built and paid for WITHOUT any government money. Why couldn't another group of interested parents still do that today?

(2) It seems to me the easy answer would be for someone to get off their duff, leave the comfort of home, and start by knocking on the doors of local farmers and inquiring about possibilities for a land lease or rental. That is what we would have done then and the first thing that would come to mind now if I were trying to do the same thing. 

As for the liability issues which you mention in general, those could be resolved with hold harmless agreements and insurance policies.

(3) If you will go back and review my earlier comments, I suggested that I fully support the concept of more parks in Stokesdale and the entire Northwest area. I just happen to think that the park needs of Stokesdale citizens extend beyond simply adding more 'fields' as you suggest. Where are the recreational opportunities for tennis, swimming, basketball, football, picnics, etc. going to occur? I don't recall seeing those included in the proposed site planning for the new park in the boondocks.

(4) Back when I was growing up, there was a ballfield and basketball court at Stokesdale School as well as the ball field at Stokesdale Park. While I recognize that there has been some growth in the area since that time, my question remains: how many children of recreational age live within the town limits? What are the current facilities and what is the anticipated need? And if new growth is driving the demand, why aren't developers being required to build recreational facilities for the new residents or conversely, why isn't there some sort of surcharge added to the cost of developed lots to offset the additional costs to the towns to provide recreation for new residents?

(5) If people aren't running to government as you say, then why hasn't the private sector already developed these fields and parks you advocate? It could and can be done if only folks would use their imagination, get off their duffs, leave the comforts of their homes,  and do something about it, rather than wait for government to do it for them.

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Sorry, Jimbo! Don't have time to keep this up right now.... I do think there were more than just "fields" planned on the town property. Maybe you could suggest to the Parks & Rec board some kind of drive to raise $ for more recreational areas, since that might be the best way to do that. You seem to have lots of connections to the movers and shakers of the town. We have 500+ kids enrolled in grades K-5 at Stokesdale Elem -- doesn't account for older and younger. It also doesn't account for kids in neighboring communities who feel a connection to Stokesdale and participate in activities here.

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macca wrote: It also doesn't account for kids in neighboring communities who feel a connection to Stokesdale and participate in activities here.
Sorry Macca, but I don't think the citizens nor the Town of Stokesdale have any obligation to provide recreation for those kids.

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So those families, who spend money in our town while they are here, should take their kids elsewhere? None of these farms you helped clear for ballfields when you were younger were across the line in Rockingham or Stokes County?

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macca wrote: So those families, who spend money in our town while they are here, should take their kids elsewhere? None of these farms you helped clear for ballfields when you were younger were across the line in Rockingham or Stokes County?
With regard to your first point, I again suggest that the citizens and Town of Stokesdale have no obligation toward those kids. If they choose to utilize recreational facilities here, then they should be subject to paying a user fee.

With regard to your second question, the answer is No. The Stokesdale kids in those days only used whatever facilities we had here in Stokesdale (Guilford County).

The greater question I suppose is what obligation if any, any town owes to those living outside of their corporate town limits. And my personal answer is: very little.

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ALL participants in recreation programs pay to play, unless they cannot afford to. Then scholarships are provided for them.

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macca wrote: ALL participants in recreation programs pay to play, unless they cannot afford to. Then scholarships are provided for them.

I was not aware of that, but I do agree that that is the way it should be. Perhaps if they simply charged them all a little more that would provide the funds needed for all these new fields you mentioned that are needed?

I will be more than happy to contribute to the scholarship fund for disadvantaged kids. They especially deserve our attention and support.

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I tried so hard not to jump in here...... Darn it. Y'all can run me back over to SF if you want to. :D 


I see Jim's point that Stokesdale isn't OBLIGATED to provide ballfields for Summerfield's (or any other town's kids), however, I'm not clear if he feels that the town is obligated to pay for ballfields for Stokesdale's kids.


As for paying more, I can't pay more than I'm paying.  We're not talking 5-10 bucks here Jim.  We're talking (In Summerfield anyway) a minimum of $100.00 per kid per sport.  Lots more if they need equipment or if you want pictures or trophys.  Gone are the days when kids hit the ballfields in their KMart tennis shoes and Jeans.....


 Speaking as a SF kid who grew up next to Greensboro,  If it hadn't been for Greensboro's Rec Centers, parks, Libraries and other amenities paid for by their taxpayers, Lots of kids wouldn't have had all of the wonderful opportunities that we had when we were growing up.  


It's not like macca's proposing that you provide ballfields exclusively for SF and surrounding towns.  Greensboro provided the above listed amenities for their children and we were fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of them as well. Often times were were offered different opportunities than were offered out here. I don't know about Stokesdale, but in Summerfield, we don't have soccer or football.  Kids have to go to neighboring towns to play these sports. 


I just think it's a good thing.

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Jim Flynt wrote: macca wrote: It also doesn't account for kids in neighboring communities who feel a connection to Stokesdale and participate in activities here.
Sorry Macca, but I don't think the citizens nor the Town of Stokesdale have any obligation to provide recreation for those kids.
This has been a most interesting and informative debate.  One of my concerns would be the exclusion of kids outside the town limits.  We have built walls around our neighborhoods. Please let's not build walls around our towns.  I'm thankful that free services in Greensboro such as the libraries, museum, gardens, and parks are available to outlying areas.  Also, at the present time, the pools, tennis courts, ball fields, and many and varied classes offered by their parks and rec are available at the same rate for us as for those who live in the city.  

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Starcatchr wrote: Jim Flynt wrote: macca wrote: It also doesn't account for kids in neighboring communities who feel a connection to Stokesdale and participate in activities here.
Sorry Macca, but I don't think the citizens nor the Town of Stokesdale have any obligation to provide recreation for those kids.
This has been a most interesting and informative debate.  One of my concerns would be the exclusion of kids outside the town limits.  We have built walls around our neighborhoods. Please let's not build walls around our towns.  I'm thankful that free services in Greensboro such as the libraries, museum, gardens, and parks are available to outlying areas.  Also, at the present time, the pools, tennis courts, ball fields, and many and varied classes offered by their parks and rec are available at the same rate for us as for those who live in the city.  

Wow Starcatchr!  You know what they say about great minds......;)

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Cracker Jax wrote: I see Jim's point that Stokesdale isn't OBLIGATED to provide ballfields for Summerfield's (or any other town's kids), however, I'm not clear if he feels that the town is obligated to pay for ballfields for Stokesdale's kids. Speaking as a SF kid who grew up next to Greensboro,  If it hadn't been for Greensboro's Rec Centers, parks, Libraries and other amenities paid for by their taxpayers, Lots of kids wouldn't have had all of the wonderful opportunities that we had when we were growing up.  
Greensboro provided the above listed amenities for their children and we were fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of them as well. Often times were were offered different opportunities than were offered out here. I don't know about Stokesdale, but in Summerfield, we don't have soccer or football.  Kids have to go to neighboring towns to play these sports


Crackah, I will try and answer your question and share my thoughts on your other comments.



As you can no doubt tell from most if not all of my posts, I subscribe to the school of thought and political philosophy that we should only look to government for those things we cannot do for ourselves. I believe that government should be our resource and solution of last resort, not first resort. Where and while others see government as the solution to problems, I generally see government as the core of our problems.



Having said that, my earlier questions to Macca were an attempt to understand the scope of what the problem is in Stokesdale with regard to a scarcity of playing fields? It is difficult to address solutions until we can quantify that scope of need versus demand.



As I have further stated in several threads, I fully support the creation of more parks in Stokesdale and throughout the Northwest. I further support the preservation of more open space, woodland and agrarian lands for the benefit of future generations. I for one, am willing to help pay for those additional parks as well as roll up my sleeves and help to find innovative ways to achieve those goals. I believe even more intensely that a 'park' should be more than playing fields. Especially single use playing fields. As someone mentioned, there are no soccer or football fields available here in Stokesdale or Summerfield, and that simply ought to be unacceptable.



If you will recall, a week or so ago, I suggested in one of the Forum threads that the three communities of Oak Ridge, Summerfield and Stokesdale should have discussions about regional planning issues as well as discussions about a regional park which could provide greater resources for all of the Northwest communities. Through economies of scale, much more in the way of offerings could be made available to our Northwest youth than would likely be available only through the efforts of any one town. A larger consortium might well provide those football fields, soccer fields, and various and sundry other opportunities which would otherwise be lost. My line of thinking would be that such a regional park might also increase the possibilities for more county and state funding than the smaller grant programs offer, which would result in a greater net benefit for all.



If you will carefully read my earlier comments, my criticism of the Stokesdale Town Council was not in the purchase of the acreage or their concept for a park at that location. I fully support that concept. My criticism was and is that the relocation to that site for the construction of a new town hall sends the wrong signal for the historic and vital town core, and it will further lack the central access and visibility that a town hall should have. With the possible exception of Oak Ridge which Sandra points out, most of us would be extremely hard pressed to name more than a handful of towns which do not have their town halls or government centers in the central business district of those communities.



Recall that several writers here a week or so ago were saying how prescient were the visionaries who envisioned and then planned and constructed Central Park in New York City were. But those visionaries did not build that park in the middle of Queens or the Bronx or Brooklyn and that is in fact, why it is today called CENTRAL PARK. I doubt many here and even most in New York could name even one or two parks located in those other boroughs.



Like Crackah, I too grew up enjoying the benefits of some of the offerings which Greensboro provided to those of us who were country bumpkins living outside of the city.


I appreciated those opportunities then and they enhanced my life and growth as a teenager and have continued to enhance my life as an adult.


However in fairness to the City of Greensboro and the Greensboro taxpayers, I would not have objected nor would it have deterred my use if the City had charged 'outsiders' a 'users fee' (which if I am to understand correctly, they do to some extent charge for some activities today). (I subscribe as well to the "there is no such thing as free lunch" theory). I think the concept of user fees should certainly be looked at as an additional source of funding revenue. I also believe some sort of interchange agreement should be negotiated or acknowledged which would allow kids and citizens from Stokesdale, Summerfield and Oak Ridge to share in the use of the parks and recreational facilities of all three communities without charge.

If one examines closely the changing demographics of an aging population, it becomes clear that government is having a more and more difficult challenge in continuing to provide services without raising taxes, which generally none of us support. Government at every level is seeking innovative ways to provide funding including a lottery to supplement educational needs and privatization of services to leverage capital costs. Therefore, one of the most difficult challenges ahead for government and taxpayers will be trying to prioritize those needs which are most essential for the well being for the greatest number of citizens.

Government at every level has recognized what we as citizens must recognize as well, the ever decreasing supply of government funding resources with the ever increasing demand for services. With obviously looming shortfalls for a continuous expansion of government services and citizen wish lists.  

Therefore, your question with regard to what obligations a town owes her citizens is a question larger than one person or one group or one taxpayer is entitled to answer. I do know that there are senior citizens in our community on fixed incomes who barely have enough to make ends meet and lower income dual working families overworked and stretched to the maximum with costs of living. And while they may constitute a small minority, I do not believe that they should be required to sacrifice much for the enjoyment of the few. And in many cases, a privileged few.


The first question the governing should ask before voting for an expenditure should be: is this an absolutely essential service which cannot be provided outside of government and does it benefit all of the members of the community. If the answer is no to either, it does not represent to me, an expenditure which should be made with community funds.

So, while I do support the playing fields for this new proposed Stokesdale Park, I do think there are certainly limits to the number of playing fields and new parks that can or should be built. And that can and should be financially maintained on an ongoing basis through the resources of the local towns.  And I also think that the forces which are driving the increased demand, i.e., new growth, should be asked to pay their fair share for the new parks that will be required as these Northwest area communities continue to grow. By either a direct pro-rata assessment added to the planning and development costs to the developers or to the price of new lots in these communities.




 






 









 

Last edited on Jan 29th, 2007 07:06 pm by Jim Flynt

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Interestin' discussion.

As far as combinin' the resources of the three NW towns to make a regional park, Pappy's a little leery o' the savin's that consolidation offers after seein' the "benefits" o' the Guilford County/Greensboro City school merger. I say keep it simple.

Last edited on Jan 29th, 2007 06:58 pm by FatPappy

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Okay, I wasn't going to jump in and you can chase me back to Summerfield also.  I love the idea of a town hall downtown but I also understand the concern that as the town grows will there be enough space to house all the government services in the same place.  I mean way back in the day New Bern was the capital of North Carolina but some where along the way someone had the vision to move the capital.  If I was to guess it probably had something to do with transportation and trade routes but I do know that it was one of the few US cities planned and built to serve as the state's capital. 

Now as for the ball fields I think we do owe our children (whether we have some or not) a safe place to play.  I also want these children to be healthy and happy.  Obesity is on the rise and eventually my tax money may be help paying for these children's insurance as they get older.  I do believe it takes a village to raise a child.  If I am going to pay taxes to a town then I want to be able to spend my money on something I will get a return on and I feel children are the best investment.

 

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I sure am glad that a majority of folks here in Stokesdale aren't in love with the concepts of all the big tax and spenders over in Summerfield.

Quite frankly the poor folks over here in Stokesdale couldn't afford your tax and spend ideas. I would be willing to bet that there is not an inconsiderable number of people over in Summerfield who likely feel the same way.

I still love all of ya'll, but you obviously look to and love big government while some of us still think less government is more.


 

Last edited on Jan 29th, 2007 07:54 pm by Jim Flynt

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As a footnote to my last post, I still find it interesting that despite all of the comments portraying a great need for more playing fields in Summerfield or Stokesdale, that not one single poster has quantified that need. Which begs the question of whether the need advanced is more perceived than real?

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Jim Flynt wrote:
As a footnote to my last post, I still find it interesting that despite all of the comments portraying a great need for more playing fields in Summerfield or Stokesdale, that not one single poster has quantified that need.

Dang, Mr Jim, as much ground as your arguments are coverin', I figger if we wait long enough, you'll get around to quantifyin' it fer us, just to make sure we do it right. ;)

The parks an' rec situation we're talkin' about is not gonna turn old people out in the street. I think that's a ridiculous argument in this case. Are we talkin' general theory or a partic'lar case, because the broad arguments you make don't always apply to specific cases. Big tax an' spenders? I don't see any outrageous tax an' spend goin' on in this particular case. We've done right well, I think.

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I played ball for Harry Osbourne akaSanta Claus , in the 80's and in mite league we played in Oak Ridge. Little league in Stokesdale where there were 4 teams total, most of our team including myself lived in Rockingham county. Pony league team was made up of both sides of the border and we played at Colfax , lewis Rec. and that field you can se from Wendover. Colt league was with mainly peple from NW high school and we played at Stoner White Stadium. I write this to compare what 20 years difference makes, there are so many kids playing in Stokesdale its unbelievable, and thnaks to Greensboro parks for allowing us to play there. And as far as playing where you live not everyone has the same oppurtunities, thanks to Stokesdale for letting us kids from across the border have a place to play.

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Will the new park have fields enough for adult softball tournaments? It will be in a place where the neighbors wont be as affected as the old ballfield. of course if it had been properly patrolled back then maybe the neighbors would have had to be so against people parking in there yards and such.

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We may have to build a bigger park to accomodate people who dont go to the OR park due to the smell of a major shopping centers' sewage discharge stinkin up tha place. Rumor has it that they may have to expand it(sewage field) because it is not doing its job.

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Mana: 
They actually did do an upgrade to the sewage system at Oak Ridge Commons about a year or so ago. I really haven't heard any complaints about the smell in quite some time. Is it still an issue?

This is actually off topic for this subject, so if you guys would like to discuss this subject, I'd suggest we start a new thread on it elsewhere.

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I noticed in the current issue of the NW Observer that Stokesdale Town Council is having two meetings about plans for the park.

One is tomorrow night at 7 at Town Hall and the other is July 10 at 4 pm. Both will be held at Town Hall. All you Stokesdalians ought to come out and see what the plans are and give 'em your input!




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