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mstone Member
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During a discussion at a board of education meeting last month about the Very Strong Needs academic program at Lincoln Academy, Deena Hayes said she was concerned about feelings of superiority and inferiority being fostered among white and minority students at the school. "I have real concern about putting this kind of program at one of our schools until you have the talent and experience of a department that can help make that adjustment," Hayes said in December. "Because when you have that kind of superiority and you put it at a school like Lincoln or at Wiley and you talk about 'mingling' ... that's like slave and slave masters mingling. Equality never had to be at the table. And it produces that sense of superiority and inferiority." Instead of an apology for such inappropriate comments, Hayes said later that she intended for the reference to early American history to show that mingling between black and white students doesn't necessarily signify a positive relationship between them. She said she was not calling children or parents slaves and slave masters. "If you have issue with that I suggest you check yourself on that," Hayes said. "I meant what I said." Not a single school board member challenged her statements in public, and most defended her comments as her right to free speech. Am I alone here? Don't we expect better behavior from our elected officials? When something is said or done, don't we expect them to respond and represent the people that elected them? Where is the leadership on the BOE? Is anyone else disappointed or offended by this? |
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Jim Flynt Member
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Jim Flynt wrote: mstone wrote:"I have real concern about putting this kind of program at one of our schools until you have the talent and experience of a department that can help make that adjustment," Hayes said in December. "Because when you have that kind of superiority and you put it at a school like Lincoln or at Wiley and you talk about 'mingling' ... that's like slave and slave masters mingling. Equality never had to be at the table. And it produces that sense of superiority and inferiority." Last edited on Jan 12th, 2007 08:50 pm by Jim Flynt |
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mstone Member
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I concede the that the Post's title could have been worded better. My apologies for such poor choice of wording. However, what rises to the level of racism is debatable. Had a white person made similar comments comparing groups of people, it would have certainly been considered racist. If Alan Ducan had said "I'm not sure that it's a good thing to put the slaves and the slave masters at the same table - he'd have been tarred, feathered, and run out of the county before the sun set. I guess what irks me is that Ms. Hayes has a long history of such "race baiting" and comments that are meant (in my humble opinion) to stir agnst towards those not of a minority race. This isn't the first time that she's dropped to this level of "commentary" and dragged the BOE with her. I am in your camp that "the dream" has yet to be realized (oh how I wish otherwise), but such comments do nothing to move us any closer. While free speech is a liberty I'll fight and die for (using my right to keep and bear arms) I cannot agree that simply because one has a microphone and a forum (by the way, it's not her forum. It belongs to the citizens she was elected to represent) that she can spout such diatribe. My biggest peeve is that no member of the BOE had the backbone to stand up and say "that's not helpful" or "that may be insulting to some of our constituents", or simply "I disagree." For too long, the BOE just ignores what parents see as real issues.... and I see this as a real issue that does nothing to help our children learn. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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mstone wrote: If Alan Ducan had said "I'm not sure that it's a good thing to put the slaves and the slave masters at the same table" - he'd have been tarred, feathered, and run out of the county before the sun set. Because when you have that kind of superiority and you put it at a school like Lincoln or at Wiley and you talk about 'mingling' ... that's like slave and slave masters mingling. I don't think the two statements are the same, nor say the same thing, nor would they mean the same thing. I do agree with you though, that the hypothetical statement which you assign to Alan Duncan, would in fact be considered racist. I would personally consider such a remark racist, without regard to the color of the skin of the speaker. The first comment is name calling while the second comment is example or analogy. Last edited on Jan 12th, 2007 09:29 pm by Jim Flynt |
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DToney Member 
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Personally, I have never seen anywhere as racist as this area... it is a shame that folks still live as though we are fighting for civil rights. If everyone would treat each other as they would like to be treated and act in a civil manner always putting their best foot forward, there would be no need for any of this! There appears to be a large complex within the black community that they are trying to play the race card way too much. If you want to be treated fairly, then why try that mess? Just like the Hinson mess in the city of Greensboro, the mess with some of the loud mouths on the city council & the dirty dealings for money that have been brought to light folks turn away when the race card is played. Is it out of fear? I don't know. All I know is it makes me sick to my stomach. I have never considered myself anything other than a fair minded person and never have I looked down my nose at anyone because of the color of their skin. But, when you act like Ms. Hayes and to me was highly unethical as well as unprofessional, I then ask myself, why did she say such a thing? It was uncalled for & unnecessary & I too think she owes everyone an apology for her highly unprofessional remarks. Come on people, put this behind us and move into the new millennium! Last edited on Jan 13th, 2007 12:33 am by DToney |
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mstone Member
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OK, so you think at pentium level and I'm just an old MacIntosh SE. My point is that the VSN (Very Strong Needs) program has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with educating children. Deena Haye's comments had absolutely nothing to do with educating children. It had everything to do with race. The BOE meeting is not her forum to spout her views, nor does that forum belong to any member of the BOE or administration. They are to be of the job of educating children - period. If any BOE member has a personal view to get out there, I'd invite them to join the forum here, write a letter to the editor, or pick up some public access TV time. I know, in our PC society it is wrong for me to make such statements, so let me go ahead and apologize for making folks feel a little uneasy. My words aren't elegant, and what sounds good inside my head often doesn't convey my intent and meaning very well. I was just wondering if anyone..... ya know... never mind. |
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Cracker Jax Member 
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mstone wrote: I guess what irks me is that Ms. Hayes has a long history of such "race baiting" and comments that are meant (in my humble opinion) to stir agnst towards those not of a minority race. This isn't the first time that she's dropped to this level of "commentary" and dragged the BOE with her. I am in your camp that "the dream" has yet to be realized (oh how I wish otherwise), but such comments do nothing to move us any closer. I wholeheartedly agree with you mstone. I don't think it was an appropriate remark OR analogy or whatever you want to call it. Duncan making the EXACT remark would not have lessened the historical significance one iota, but most certainly would have been called racism. It was obvious why she made the statement and I think it's fair to consider it a form of reverse racism. While I agreed with her in theory (All of Grier's socio-economic engineering and mixing the lower performers with the "over achievers" isn't doing anything for the kid's self esteem or giving them an incentive to do their best), I do not think that she should have made a statement such as that. Ya'll may be Pentiums and MAC's, but even with my tin foil thinkin' cap on I'm still in DOS mode..... |
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FatPappy Member 
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There's been some deep horrible wrongs done outta ignorance an' fear an' them wounds obviously ain't healed yet. But they ain't gonna heal if folks don't find a way to get on with things. The young'uns need to see some higher expectations in practice. I remember one time the young'uns askin' 'bout the Woolworth sit-ins an' how they couldn't believe that kind o' ignorance was so widely accepted not that far back. The fact that they were shocked made me feel good an' gave me a little hope fer the future. (The new Macs have Intel chips in 'em, by the way. Hee hee!) |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Amen Pappy! (not on that Mac thing.... I didn't know about that! |
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Jim Flynt Member
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FatPappy wrote: the young'uns askin' 'bout the Woolworth sit-ins an' how they couldn't believe that kind o' ignorance was so widely accepted not that far back. The fact that they were shocked made me feel good an' gave me a little hope fer the future. Pappy, I guess I show my age, but I remember the special treat we had in growing up in the country, of being taken to the Greensboro Christmas Parade every year as children. And as a treat, sitting at the Woolworth counter and ordering a BLT sandwich, which our friends of color could not do at that time. I remember and can never forget that there were two water fountains and four bathrooms (2 for men and 2 for women) and one set was marked for 'Coloreds.' Since one of my grandmothers lived in Reidsville, I also remember going to the cinema theater over there with my cousins, and the 'Coloreds' all had to sit in the balcony. Despite my age, it really hasn't been all that long ago (on a relative basis). |
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FatPappy Member
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Not that long ago at all, Mr Jim. It's funny how people just accept things like that, for a while anyway. |
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DOGGETTJA Member 
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Did anybody else read in the Sunday N @R the full context of her speech? I absolutely agree with what she is saying and understand her analogy. |
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gotobeme Member 
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You know a lot of what we do in schools or with schools have to do with race. Whether we want to admit it or not most of would rather our children get through school and the heck with the rest. I, for one, went through desegregating schools which wasn't a pretty sight at the beginning, but look at it now. You really can't separate our kids. I don't know how many of us have really taken a look at our youth of today. They don't make an issue of race, with the exception of a few who still are taught by their relatives or parents. If it wasn't for the older generation remembering what had taken place in the past, most of our youth would not have known some of the suffering and anquish many had to endure for our religious, social and educational freedoms. I do believe the educational scene can be made much better than it currently is. All school should have the best. and all youth should be afforded the same opportunities despite where they come from, or what their skin color is or what their economic status is. Maybe if some of the grown ups would back off a little we would see this world turned upside down. Let our youth decide for a change.... Gotobeme |
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Jim Flynt Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Did anybody else read in the Sunday N @R the full context of her speech? I absolutely agree with what she is saying and understand her analogy. Jane, no I did not read her comments nor see the article, but Thanks to you, I will go find a copy and dig up the article which you mention. Thanks again for bringing it to our attention. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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gotobeme wrote: Maybe if some of the grown ups would back off a little we would see this world turned upside down. Let our youth decide for a change.... Very well said. I wholeheartedly agree. Amen. Just for the record, I attended Northwest High School (as a freshman) the very first year that it was integrated, and we simply did not have the problems in my four years there that so many other schools did have. I think there were dozens of reasons why we did not have problems and beyond our classmates being of another race, they also became our friends, and in many cases, some of our best friends. |
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Jim Flynt Member
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Did anybody else read in the Sunday N @R the full context of her speech? I absolutely agree with what she is saying and understand her analogy. Jane (and Everyone), here is a link to the story in yesterday's Greensboro News & Record: http://blog.news-record.com/staff/outloud/archives/2007/01/deena_hayes_rig.html (Jane, I am assuming that this is the story you were referring to in your earlier post?) Last edited on Jan 16th, 2007 03:31 am by Jim Flynt |
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mstone Member
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I read the article, I saw it on TV, and I spoke to some of those in attendance. All of those came away with the same impression I had... it was a really poor choice of words from someone who has a history of bringing race into an educational issue for the sake of bringing race into the issue. It did nothing to with education. The responsibility of a BOE member is to advocate for ALL students. She stated that she would immediately vote to disband the VSN program during her statement. That threatened vote had no basis other than her own racial prejudice when the program - regardless of where it's housed, regardless of who it serves - DOES, in fact, address the needs of some students far better than any viable alternative. If she has an issue with those that administer the program as she alluded to, she should have directed her comments towards her employee, Dr. Grier, and his administrators - rather than the program, the chosen location, the parents, and the students. Probably stepping knee deep into this one again, but here goes. |
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gotobeme Member
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I believe then we all need to really take a look at some of our "programs" and other alternatives for educating our children. SCALE and JDRC are two of the worse educational programs that I have seen in a while. While we are shipping students, mostly black students, to these programs without monetary support and or support from Guilford County Schools, we need to ask ourselves this questions; What is the purpose and future of these programs? How will they help my child, if needed? To me they are storage places for children that have been victims of a system that is spawn to breed kids on college tracts. My news to all of us. All of our children will not attend college, it is just that simple. Do we give up on trying to get them there, I would say no, but structuring our schools to press out college bound kids is asking too much and have caused many to fall by the wayside. I cant blame it on the system as a whole, but I can say this. There are many late after school programs and tutorials that will fit the need of single parenting families, or poor parents who have low paying jobs that work late hours, and who can not and do not have the ability to support their children during the daytime hours. Most can not even take off a day, due to economic stresses. So I would say, yes, we still have a racial problem within our system, both racial and economic. They may go together to create the same. gotobeme |
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Jim Flynt Member
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gotobeme wrote: So I would say, yes, we still have a racial problem within our system, both racial and economic. They may go together to create the same. We still have a 'problem'* in our society in accepting racial differences (as well as other differences from our own in lifestyle, culture and religion) so why pretend it doesn't extend into our schools and every other institution within the larger community of man. *("racial problem") |
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mstone Member
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AMEN!!! Don't get me wrong - I want to support the college-bound students and see them excel. However, the vast majority of these students are going to college not because of the GCS system, but in spite of it. The place where the schools can make a real difference is with training those not college bound for the future as a productive member of society. Every doctor and lawyer and engineer will at some time need a auto mechanic, a plumber, electrician, construction worker, cook, and a host of other honorable professionals to fill. Why aren't we putting time, programs, and money resources on these students? That's where the greatest impact on our society will occur. gotobeme wrote: My news to all of us. All of our children will not attend college, it is just that simple. Do we give up on trying to get them there, I would say no, but structuring our schools to press out college bound kids is asking too much and have caused many to fall by the wayside |
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Jim Flynt Member
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‘We do not see the world as it is. We see the world as we are.’ The Talmud. The collection of Jewish oral tradition that interprets the Torah. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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I really can't speak on the SCALE and other programs like that because I don't have the knowledge or information. But I would say that GCS actually is putting some money toward programs for kids who aren't going to college. The Middle College program is great (my daughter graduated last year from MCET - the Middle College of Entertainment Technology at GTCC in High Point). I feel like the different magnet schools that are being offered are a wonderful alternative for kids who want to specialize in specific areas. They can get work experience and/or college credits while in high school (at no cost). Some of the programs allow kids to be in classes 2-3 days a week and get training or work experience on the other days. I think GCS is beginning to look at different ways to approach high school and realizing that one size truly does not fit all. |
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mstone Member
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Agreed. I think there are some very good programs in GCS. However, should GCS be spending money on programs to get kids college credits? The vast majority of those in these classes are going to college. Why put money into those programs? Job/Career training for those that aren't going off to college is a far more beneficial use of the tax dollars to the students and the community. As for magnet programs, they are nice, but once again is that really where the money needs to be spent? How about let's focus on basic education, getting kids educated, and prepare them to become a productive member of society. |
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