| Moderated by: Steve Adkins | Topic closed | |
| Author | Post | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Cracker Jax Member 
|
Share your thoughts on the Concerned Citizens of Summerfield. |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member 
|
Is this space gonna be big enough? Hee hee! |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
You're so funny Pappy! I was gonna post about Sandra's FOIA article but I was too busy last night. Good Job Sandra!!! The people of Summerfield need to know why the Staff members are leaving and that the CC's, while touting fiscal responsibility, are actually wasting our money and leaving us NOTHING to show for it except for the stack of papers carried around by their spokespeople. I have a lot more to say on this subject, but I think I'll post most of that elsewhere. I think Councilman Williams was correct in stating that the CC's are wasting valuable time with countless requests and Councilwoman Barnes hit the nail on the head when she said that they had succeeded in aggravating people. I found it interesting that Councilman Crawford SAYS that he has "resigned" from the CC steering committee due to a "difference of opinion". Wonder which one of them he had a difference of opinion with??? Wonder if he really did have a difference of opinion or if he's just trying to give us the ILLUSION of distancing himself from the others. Actions speak louder than words. |
|||||||||||
|
mstone Member
|
Do you think the CC folks that voted these two people into office are so blind to the whole process that they cannot see what a luaghing stock they have made of the Summerfield Twon Council meetings? Heck, I keep up on it just to see what wild and wacky things are coming next. Were things really THAT bad before CC showed up? |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Pappy lately read a typical CC style nonsense mailin' bearin' that infamous Permit #34. Mebbe you saw one too. Typical bash the park, bash the Barnes family, you know. Well, I natur'ly thought it was from the CC, but come to find out it wasn't! Naw! It was all the way from the Treasurer of the National Taxpayers United of Illinois! "Pappy," I says, I says, "what in the world does the National Taxpayers United of Illinois have to do with the good people o' Summerfield or the CC?" I says. Well, up yonder the National Taxpayers United of Illinois says such thangs as, "Libraries are outmoded - with the Internet you don't need them anymore." And, "Your local politicians want to spend millions of your dollars to build a palace for themselves! They feel the current city hall is beneath them!" Oh, I see... So, does Summerfield have its very own out-of-state consultant now? An' who's steerin' the CC steerin' committee these days? An' how many airbags is it equipped with? Save ol' Pappy a place over yonder, Crackah! |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
FatPappy wrote: An' who's steerin' the CC steerin' committee these days? An' how many airbags is it equipped with? tee hee! Love that! Airbags! I got that permit #34 propaganda mailin' too Pappy. I gotta say that it looked a sight prettier than that bogus F- report card that circulated about Mark Brown. The content of the mailin' would have been laughable if I wasn't afraid some uninformed voter transplanted from Illinois or somewhere might get hold of it and not realizin' it was a fairy tale, cast their vote accordingly. My favorite part of the fairy tale was when the NTUI Treasurer writes that council voted to allow Paul Milam to WRITE ORDINANCES for SF to rezone HUNDREDS of acres for HIGH DENSITY housing. NOT TRUE and NOT what Milam asked the council for. And then the author whines about not being able to blurt out comments during Mr. Milam's speech to council. Puhleeeeese!
|
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
mstone wrote: Do you think the CC folks that voted these two people into office are so blind to the whole process that they cannot see what a luaghing stock they have made of the Summerfield Twon Council meetings? Heck, I keep up on it just to see what wild and wacky things are coming next. Were things really THAT bad before CC showed up? I think things were great before the CC's climbed out from under their rocks mstone. I'm sure some mistakes were made, but we were a new town and folks were learning how to go about running that town. We were happy. We were a community. We were progressive, and making plans for the future instead of focusing on the past. Neighboring towns even looked at Summerfield to set an example for them. We were proud of our accomplishments. Not anymore. It's really embarrassing. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member 
|
FatPappy wrote:Naw! It was all the way from the Treasurer of the National Taxpayers United of Illinois! http://www.ntui.org |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Pappy despises any organization or individual that uses misdirection, lies, an' scapegoats as the bricks to build their little walls with their gawdy neon signs on top blasphemously proclaiming "TRUTH". They ain't gonna last. They're already crumblin'. |
|||||||||||
|
zippitydoodah Member
|
What is this Illinoise Taxpayer crap? I am insulted that this would be used locally to try to sway people. I looked at there website. Look at this: Donate Easily and Safely Online to NTUI! For a small annual household membership fee of $50 or corporate membership of $1,000, you will recieve our Tax Survey of the Illinois General Assembly, as well as a subscription to our newsletter, TaxNews, containing news of upcoming tax battles, elections, and action you can take to reduce out-of-control taxation and spending in your area. Donating to NTUI online using your Visa, Mastercard, AMEX or Discover is simple, fast and secure. Ha! I wouldn't waste my time much less my money. And doesnt this sound familiar. Here's something else: CONTACT NTUI Jim Tobin Jeffrey Babbitt Christina Tobin Jeff Trigg Where is Ms. Dunham's name? Why is she not listed as a contact? Just more smoke and mirrors.... I just hope some uninformed person didn't take this stuff at face value. BJ won with no problem. Obviously this Illinoise Taxpayer group didn't sway the voters around here. Thank goodness people around here are smarter than that -- now anyways. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!!!!!!" When are the citizens of Summerfeild going to stand up and say enough to these people???? And I don't just mean on this forum. I mean a real uprising....... Last edited on Nov 11th, 2006 01:32 pm by zippitydoodah |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Sound wisdom, Zippity. I agree we need more off the forum protest, but I think we're makin' a dent with the forum too. I like what Mayor Brown said in the paper, "I do not expect the staff of the Town of Summerfield to stoop to allowing themselves to be harassed for political purposes, nor will I stand to be harassed in such a manner." WOO HOO! Great article, Sandra! |
|||||||||||
|
S. Smith Moderator
|
Thanks for the compliment, Pappy, but I do want to point out that my intent wasn't to bash the Concerned Citizens. I do agree that citizens have a right to information, but I also think requests have to be reasonable. I did offer the CCs the opportunity to say why they were requesting this information and what they intended to do with it. Unfortunately they wouldn't answer my questions. |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
I didn't mean to imply you were bashin' the CCs, Sandra. We already got a crew on that. Hee hee! I read the unedited full "answer" you were given. It was a joke! The answer I got from that was "Go away, peasant." It's hard to say anythang good about 'em when they act like we have no right to expect them to be part o' the community they supposedly represent. |
|||||||||||
|
Hairbrush Member
|
I would like to know why Mom and the concerned citizens' agenda is so much more important and better than most of the other citizens of Summerfield's agendas. I pay taxes so I get a say also, but I sure wouldn't want BS to elicit a response from me or catch me in a moment of weakness so she can better meet her agenda. Now isn't that sad. By intimidation BS is affecting my "freedom of speech", but don't get in the way of the "freedom of information act". |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Neither they nor their "agenda" are superior in any way, shape, or form to you or anybody else, HB. They are a sad an' disgustin' bunch, in my always humble opinion. They scurry about like rats in the dark frantically fumblin' with their pitiful little plans fer mischief. They block, they stall, they bully. But do they offer anything positive for Summefield? Absolutely nuthin'. |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
FatPappy wrote: But do they offer anything positive for Summefield? Amen! |
|||||||||||
|
Hairbrush Member
|
I just looked on the concerned citizen's webpage and noticed that Robert Flowers was still listed at one of the contacts for the concerned citizens. That made me wonder about Ms. Flowers talk at the town council meeting last night. I would assume by looking at the contact list that he is steering committee member for the concerned citizens. I wonder why he didn't contact the northwest observer and just state that he was no longer a member like DC did. I don't think the article in the paper was saying that Mr. flowers himself was using the freedom of information act but that the concerned citizens were and he certainly seems to be a member. Sometimes you are guilty of association. One should always be careful of who they associate with and especially be careful of who you give the right to use your name. Sometimes it does come back and haunt you. I also noticed that on this webpage that Mom is not listed anywhere but she certainly seems to be representing them. |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Hairbrush wrote: I wonder why he didn't contact the northwest observer and just state that he was no longer a member like DC did. Didn't ya hear Hairbrush??? It was hunting season. He had better things to do. I heard that Mom thanked Mrs. Flowers for coming and making her speech to council. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
IMHO, it must take a truly miserable person to try to ruin what has been a creative and entertaining outlet. |
|||||||||||
|
EditorPS Administrator 
|
I've asked this on the Summerfield Town Council forum and am hoping someone can provide an answer. The question occurred to me after I learned yesterday that Councilman Dwayne Crawford, former member of the Concerned Citizens, sent out an email to people he believed were posters on this forum and blind copied "dozens" of people. Because these people were blind copied, we have no idea who they are. I believe it's reasonable to suspect that at least some of them are members of the Concerned Citizens group. Why did Dwayne make it a point that he was copying dozens of people on the e-mail, all of whom are anonymous at his discretion, when in fact the very point he was trying to make was that people who make bold statements and take bold actions should always and openly identify themselves? Apparently Dwayne is, and has always been quite irritated because some of the posters on our forum have chosen not to reveal their identity. That being the case, why is it okay for the Concerned Citizens not to identify themselves, other than about four or five people on the steering committee plus Gail Dunham? Who ARE these "Concerned Citizens" and why don't they come forward? Maybe their reasonings are the same as those of the people who post on this forum ... that is, assuming there really are more than four or five of them in existence. When Sandra Smith wrote an article about this group about a year and a half ago, she asked how many members there were, when did they meet, could we see a copy of their meeting minutes, etc. Ironically, she got answers only to select questions on her list and not to any of the above. I think it's time that we file Freedom of Information requests to the Concerned Citizens/National Taxpayers United of Illinois. Anyone want to help compile a list? And, if there are any Concerned Citizens reading this posting besides Councilman Dwayne Crawford (who we know is a former member and suspect still blind copies members on his emails), we would appreciate any light you can shed on why you as a member of this group don't want to reveal yourself, yet posters on this forum are being slammed for not revealing themselves. Remain anonymous if you want, but the double standard just does not get it with me. CONCERNED CITIZENS - IT'S TIME TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET AND FROM OFF OF THE BLIND COPY E-MAIL LIST! Stop hiding behind Gail Dunham's apron. Let's roll up our sleeves and see if we can find any common ground so that we can move our town forward again. Last edited on Nov 18th, 2006 01:53 pm by EditorPS |
|||||||||||
|
S. Smith Moderator
|
EditorPS wrote: I think it's time that we file Freedom of Information requests to the Concerned Citizens/National Taxpayers United of Illinois. Anyone want to help compile a list? Great idea, Patti, but unfortunately I don't know that this can be done. In fact, Ms. Dunham, who seems so up on all the laws, doesn't seem to understand that the Freedom of Information Act only applies to the federal government and its entities. In this state, the Public Records law applies to the state and municipalities that lie within it. Patti and I have attended several seminars by the N.C. Press Association on this topic. So anyone that wants to demand records from a government can do so. The CCs have repeatedly said and shown that they don't have to answer any questions, tell what they're doing with information, produce any meeting minutes, tell who their members are, etc. etc. However, they tout openness and honesty in government. And Dwayne Crawford's issue with this forum seems to be that people can/do misrepresent themselves by not using their real names. Why should the people of Summerfield or this forum have to put up with a double standard like this??? I don't get it.... While, as far as I know, it wouldn't be backed by a law, nothing would stop citizens from demanding answers from the CCs -- especially since at least one of them (and I'm really confused now about Dwayne Crawford's connection now with this group) is on the town council. I believe council members should represent their constituents, who put them in office in the first place -- not a special interest group. |
|||||||||||
|
EditorPS Administrator
|
Hi Sandra, Good to talk to you!  Actually, I didn't mean to be taken literally with filing Freedom of Information requests -- you have educated me well through your recent article on when and how that process can be used. What I meant was that we should file requests for information in the same manner in which Concerned Citizen representative Gail Dunham files her requests for information with the town -- very specific questions that demand an answer and have a timeline associated with them as to when we expect those answers. And if we don't get an answer to any or all of those questions, we should make it very public that we did not receive answers to our questions. I do not know legally if the Concerned Citizens as an entity would be required to answer our questions -- perhaps that is something we (the Northwest Observer) could verify. Regardless of whether they are legally bound to answer them, I would argue that the CC group is ethically bound to answer questions posed by their fellow citizens of Summerfield, especially since they are making bold and as of yet unfounded accusations about some of our elected officials. |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member 
|
Patti - you put "ethics" and "CC's" together in the same sentence. did you mean to do that, or was that an oversight? An oxymoron maybe? |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
EditorPS wrote: I think it's time that we file Freedom of Information requests to the Concerned Citizens/National Taxpayers United of Illinois. Anyone want to help compile a list? Count me in |
|||||||||||
|
zippitydoodah Member
|
I had posted this elsewhere, but somebody pointed out that it might belong over here to. Looks like the tactics of Dunham/the Illinoise taxpayer group didn't effect the sherriff's race any. Sherriff Barnes was elected by a huge margin anyways. And I heard the CCs were campaigning for that other guy. |
|||||||||||
|
Jim Flynt Member
|
zippitydoodah wrote: I heard the CCs were campaigning for that other guy. And that's just one more reason why that other guy lost. |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
zippitydoodah wrote:Looks like the tactics of Dunham/the Illinoise taxpayer group didn't effect the sherriff's race any. Sherriff Barnes was elected by a huge margin anyways. And I heard the CCs were campaigning for that other guy. Pappy don't know 'bout Illinois, but the folks down here figgered it out just fine. Mebbe them Illinois voters didn't make it down here to the polls in time. Did you notice, Zippity, that in that flyer Mom sent out, there was mebbe 3 vague sentences about Blanks an' the rest was the usual negative mess against the Barnes family an' so forth? If she's down here, then Illinois tarns out to be the real winner! |
|||||||||||
|
jimia Member 
|
This Concerned Ciizen group does not represent my viewpoint nor do I agree with their tactics. The two new members of the Town Council should step down and allow people who are interested in accomplishing something join the council. I initially thought this group was acting in the public interest but I now know better. Both individuals act like know it alls, well I have a suggestion. Buy a dictionary and look up the word respect. Read it several times and once the meaning has sunk in, demonstrate your comprehension level by treating people with some of it. Public service used to mean something. Politics is self serving, mean spirtited and being monopolized by insecure people who desire constant attention! |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
jimia wrote: This Concerned Ciizen group does not represent my viewpoint nor do I agree with their tactics. The two new members of the Town Council should step down and allow people who are interested in accomplishing something join the council. I initially thought this group was acting in the public interest but I now know better. Both individuals act like know it alls, well I have a suggestion. Buy a dictionary and look up the word respect. Read it several times and once the meaning has sunk in, demonstrate your comprehension level by treating people with some of it. Thank You & Welcome jimia. You hit the nail on the head. The CC's are small but loud. However, the rest of the population is large, but respectful. (notice I didn't say quiet) Doing a good job of applying the golden rule. Looking to the future. There are more of you out there lurking, that we want to hear from, so do like jimia, get registered, and let's hear from you !!!!!!!!! |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
jimia wrote: Politics is self serving, mean spirtited and being monopolized by insecure people who desire constant attention! Good-NESS! I've been so busy this weekend, I missed our new member... (#2 of dozens perhaps?) Welcome to the forum jimia!!!!!!!! Jump on in here any time! I think jimia might have hit the nail on the head when he/she mentioned the desire for constant attention. Councilman Crawford's latest actions remind me of a little puppy jumping up and down in front of us and saying "Notice me!!!! Notice me!!!!" Consider this a little pat on the head Dwayne and run along and play nice. k?? |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
Cracker Jax wrote:
Interesting you make that comparison Last night at the Tree Lighting, I told someone all that was missing from Dwayne's latest actions was him jumping up and down........Lookie Teacher, Lookie what I did all by myself !!!!!!!!! Dern, that's scary we think alike. |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
|
|||||||||||
|
Hairbrush Member
|
I went on the secretary of state's corporation page to see who the officer's were for the Concerned Citizens. Since they are a non-profit there are no annual reports on line. I did look at a copy of their articles of incorporation and it list Becky Strickland as Secretary and Registered agent and Gail Dunham as president. I find it interesting though that Gail's information is missing from the contact list on the Concerned Citizen's webpage. |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Cracker Jax wrote:
Hee hee! |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
jimia wrote:I initially thought this group was acting in the public interest but I now know better. Welcome to the forum, jimia. I agree an' I thought yer post summed it up very well. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Hairbrush wrote:I went on the secretary of state's corporation page to see who the officer's were for the Concerned Citizens. Since they are a non-profit there are no annual reports on line. I did look at a copy of their articles of incorporation and it list Becky Strickland as Secretary and Registered agent and Gail Dunham as president. I find it interesting though that Gail's information is missing from the contact list on the Concerned Citizen's webpage. How do you access the CC's webpage??? |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member 
|
Macca- The website is cc4summerfield.org. Hasn't been udated in over a year it looks like. Isn't it interesting though that they (CC's) require absolutely honesty from everybody but their president is not even listed as a member of the organization. Wonder why? |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
DOGGETTJA wrote:Macca- The website is cc4summerfield.org. Hasn't been udated in over a year it looks like. Thanks, Jane! Wonder why they don't update it?? Not enough interest to justify it??? I found this on their site, followed by contact info for Dwayne Crawford, Becky Strickland, Ginny Luckhart and Robert Flowers.... Thought DC wasn't part of it any more? Maybe he should tell THEM!! If you are able to help distribute flyers, help with telephone calls, or help in any way, we want to hear from you. We are also looking for four people to run for Town Council in 2007. NOW ISN'T THAT A SCARY THOUGHT??? 4 MORE ON S'FIELD TC???  WHAT ABOUT 0 TOTAL ON S'FIELD TC???  |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Mebbe they haven't updated their site because they're leadin' by example. They want the town to do nothin', so they're showin' us how it's done. They should call themselves a Political Inaction Committee. |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
FatPappy wrote: They should call themselves a Political Inaction Committee. PIC. I like that. It fits. |
|||||||||||
|
Hairbrush Member
|
I think it was Jim that mentioned on the Summerfield Town council page that we need to follow the money. So I hoped over to the Welcome to the Guilford County Board of Elections to see how the concerned citizen's were spending their money. The 2005 candidate financial reports were filed. Now I haven't been to this webpage before so I might not really understand all it does. I had to tried to find information on the State's corporation page, but had not much luck. Well on this 2005 report (they have another one due in January). I found that the Concerned citizen's for Summerfield is a PAC and that our very own Dwayne Crawford is the treasurer. Now of course this might change as this was signed January 27, 2006. I did find it interesting that they spent $439.79 to mail the flyer "Who can you trust?" November 11, 2005. I will keep digging. |
|||||||||||
|
jimia Member
|
The CC Group will realize over a period of time that thier perspectives and methods are not appreciated nor will they be tolerated. I just hope we don't have to wait 4 years to demonstrate the later. I am ashamed of myself for not voting. You can be assured I will take the time to vote next election. Both members of the CC group who sit on the council enjoy your 15 minutes in the spotlight as it will come to an end sooner than later. Advice to the mayor and other council members: stand your ground and stop appeasing these people. You have the backing of the majority of the town members. To the NW Observer: Please continue to expose these people to your readers. The town really needs them to step down and the only way is to publish the truth on issues and their tactics. |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Yee haw, jimia! |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Hyar's somethin' I copied from the CC website. (Don't worry, I wiped my feet before I came back in here.) Rather ironic how the boney finger o' fate was pointin' at them the whole time they delivered their judgement. Poetical justice you might say. Quiet the young'uns down an' throw that cat outside...let's listen while one of the CC's finest orators speaks words o' wisdom an' enlightenment... "...Contrary to the council’s censorship, the adage “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all” has no place in political debates. Public comment is just that — a chance for citizens to voice their opinions about government, whether the representatives like it or not. Summerfield citizens will continue to be heard. So “if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.” Becky Strickland Summerfield" OK, if you say so, Miss Leader. Hee hee! Summerfield citizens will continue to be heard! |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
We do reap what we sow don't we. Four years ago this forum would have died for lack of interest. But thanks to the concerned citizens and their sowing of anger, hatred and distrust, the forum is alive and active. Funny how when the shoe is on the other foot then it is wrong. |
|||||||||||
|
parklover Member
|
It is sad the the CC's (what...maybe 5-8 people) continue to haunt and disgrace our town. I am sure that the majority of Summerfield totally disagree with their opinions.....where are you? We need more people speaking our against them. I am ashamed everytime I attend council meetings. If the CC's elect anyone else to council......we need to look at the slack Summerfield citizens who do not get out and VOTE!!!! I am new to the Forum...and may at times...be very vocal. Last edited on Dec 1st, 2006 01:19 am by parklover |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
parklover wrote:I am new to the Forum...and may at times...be very vocal. Woo hoo!!!♥♥♥ |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
parklover wrote:I am new to the Forum...and may at times...be very vocal. Pappy'll second that "Woo Hoo!" Tarn it up, parklover! |
|||||||||||
|
parklover Member
|
It is very sad that I speak with many people in Summefield who voice their opinions....but when I ask them if they voted they shrink and say "no" ... "I thought others would take care of that for me". I have no patience or respect for these people. It only takes about 10 minutes of your time to vote. If these people had taken these few minutes, BS & DW would not be in office. The CC's were rabid in the last election and they turned out in their numbers. Summerfield failed miserably in the fight against CC's. If you think your vote doesn't count or matter....think again! Last edited on Dec 1st, 2006 01:36 am by parklover |
|||||||||||
|
Skiddles Member 
|
WELCOME parklover!!
Glad to see you joined the forum.. And..I love your name! |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
FatPappy wrote: "...Contrary to the council’s censorship, the adage “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all” has no place in political debates. Public comment is just that — a chance for citizens to voice their opinions about government, whether the representatives like it or not. That was a great find, Pappy! Seems that BS is contradicting herself more and more as time goes on. I got my NWO today and Sandra wrote a great article about the 2 parcels of ball field property that the town is looking at. Sandra pointed out that BS was pushing for that 220 property at the November TC meeting, however, at a previous meeting she was "adamantly" opposed to that same parcel and wouldn't want HER kids playing there. I reckon as long as our kids aren't playin' in her "backyard" she doesn't really care where they play. oh, and WELCOME to the forum Parklover!!!! |
|||||||||||
|
parklover Member
|
If she can't stay out of the "kitchen"....well.... I still want to hear from her supporters. They seem to be at a minimum.... |
|||||||||||
|
Baseball Buddy Member 
|
Welcome Parklover !!! We will always have people who disagree with what is right for Summerfield. But, why do the CC's have to disagree with everything?!! Hard facts, Surveys, and Public Workshops all come to the same answers yet the CC's still disagree. Professional people have done this last survey and put on a great workshop and this all got discounted as less than professional by Ms. Dunham during the SPARCS meeting Tuesday night. Stating that the survey that UNCG done PROFESSIONALLY had a different outcome than the current survey. 10 minutes prior to her arrival, we had just discussed with Hannah (that's who put on the workshop and survey) how the outcome of both were similar. This was to be a proactive meeting, not a place to voice an opinion on what the CC's want or don't want. Ranting over a 4 million dollar amphitheater (where did that $ come from) and trying to hide from everyone or keep secret to what just a select few want in the park. Then accusing me of writing that I wanted to run her down here on the Forum. I never did that. I apologise to everyone at the meeting for getting loud but, It was long over due. The badgering and asking questions without waiting for an answer or answering it yourself in sarcasm is just plain rude . |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Baseball Buddy wrote: Ranting over a 4 million dollar amphitheater (where did that $ come from) Gosh I'm fallin' down on my job! I forgot to mention that this 4 million dollar number was spouted repeatedly at the meeting the other night. Amazing that the 2 million dollar amphitheater has now become a 4 million dollar amphitheater...... Do they just make these numbers up???? (rhetorical question, naturally) George is sure gonna be an even bigger hero when he saves us all those millions it's gonna cost to build that thing. |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
It was an ODD outburst. Mom asked why we didn't tell the truth about what it was going to cost. Obviously she thinks we are way smarter than we are, in that, we paid for the park master plan and costs as a town because nobody in the Town had the expertise to do it themselves. We can only quote the costs that are reflected in the very master plan that she claims says 4 million dollars. My copy only says 2.2 million dollars I think it is certainly not 4 million dollars. Out of the 150 or so surveys done by PCog there were two " don't do anything" comments the rest of the surveys were very much in favor of more walking trails, bark park, ampitheater. The PCOG foks though 150 were a good turn out. Here again no real opposition to the park. We are a democracy. Those that vote are those that get to decide!! |
|||||||||||
|
Hairbrush Member
|
The sad thing is that most people don't take the time to find out the truth and when a mailing or a piece of paper sitting on a table at a council meeting says the amphitheatre is going to cost 2.2 million then that is what they believe. I think that not only the citizens of Summerfield but the other members of the town council are going to have to start standing up to this negative concerned citizen group. Enough is enough. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Hairbrush wrote:The sad thing is that most people don't take the time to find out the truth and when a mailing or a piece of paper sitting on a table at a council meeting says the amphitheatre is going to cost 2.2 million then that is what they believe. I think that not only the citizens of Summerfield but the other members of the town council are going to have to start standing up to this negative concerned citizen group. Enough is enough. Hairbrush, Although I'm not a Summerfield resident (I live in Madison, remember?) I can tell you that, as an outsider, I've thought for a long time that the other Council members are putting up with a lot more than most folks would..... |
|||||||||||
|
SaltyDog Member 
|
I think that not only the citizens of Summerfield but the other members of the town council are going to have to start standing up to this negative concerned citizen group. Enough is enough. Hairbrush - You hit the nail on the head - the other council members do need to stand up. Originally I think all of us were stunned and maybe a little intimidated at the aggressive (and rude) tactics of the CCs. Now it's time for council members who oppose the CCs positions to be agressive (but not rude) advocates for what I think is the majority of the citizens of Summerfield. |
|||||||||||
|
Hairbrush Member
|
Saltydog I totally agree. I know that the other council members can get the point across without rudeness. They have shown class and restraint, but I think the time has come for them to stand together against the rest of the concerned citizens. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Do you think people have been communicating with the other Council members to let them know they have their support? Do you think they KNOW how few people really share the views of the CC's?? That might help bolster their resolve to stand up to the two on Council..... Just a thought.... |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Hairbrush wrote: Saltydog I totally agree. I know that the other council members can get the point across without rudeness. They have shown class and restraint, but I think the time has come for them to stand together against the rest of the concerned citizens. I have personally witnessed Carolyn, Bob and Dena get hot under the collar on several occasions when the CC's go off on one of their tirades and they all three don't mind setting Becky or Dwayne straight on an issue if need be. My question is, what else would you have the three of them do? They are usually unprepared because they don't know what these people will bring up next and therefore aren't prepared to argue it, or they show how they feel with a 3-2 vote. That's what we elected them to do. I just think it's easy to say that they other council members should do something, but what?? Maybe Jane can shed some light on what she would do differently were she still on the council now that the "shock" factor has been removed from the equation. |
|||||||||||
|
Hairbrush Member
|
I too have seen them get hot under the collar and I appreciate their speaking up, but I do think they need to do more to stop Ms. Dunham when she says that the amphitheatre is costing 2.2 million (I guess her number has gone up now). I also think they are going to have to do a better job when she speaks at times that are not considered a public hearing. I do think at times that she brings up good points but she needs to wait until a public hearing to speak. I also think that the council needs to say something about the material that is left at the table at the door into the council meeting. I feel that by the materials being with official town papers that it gives the appearance that these papers are truthful and have been approved. Those are the kind of things I think they can do. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Crackah, I'm glad to hear the others are standing up to them... So are they getting the message from the Mayor and the attorney that they cannot continue to use these tactics to impede progress? Are they allowed to disrupt proceedings, or does business get done in a more professional manner now? |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
Cracker- Now that the shock is over If I were on the council I would ask the mayor to call the meeting to order when members out in the audience speak out of turn. That would go a long way to solving some of the problems. The one time I spoke out of turn BS called me on a point of order which she has every right to do but month after month after month Mom gets to hold court when ever she decides she wants to. Why is a point of order not called on her? that is something the rest of the council could ask for if the mayor is not doing it on his own. |
|||||||||||
|
WB Member
|
I was present at this week's meeting of the Summerfield Parks & Recreation Committee (SPARC) where the results of the recent PCOG survey were reviewed and where preliminary Park Phase II ideas were discussed. Ms Dunham, of the Concerned Citizens group, attended as well and unfortunately arrived a little late and missed much of the discussion of the survey results. Ms Dunham made many comments and observations that were insightful and quite helpful. I think a group such as the Concerned Citizens has the potential of being helpful by raising legitimate concerns and by ensuring tight controls are maintained over the Town's funds. It's unfortunate that there is such a great deal of acrimony since there is such potential for progress. At my job, I've sometimes been accused of being so tight with a buck that I can make the dead presidents scream for mercy; but it's not really helpful for the CC's to have the nihilistic view of opposing virtually anything that involves financial expenditures. This does not further their own cause in that it frustrates other citizens into believing that there is nothing that can be done to make progress towards acquiring the infrastruture and facillities needed within the Town and get the buy-in of the CC's as well. In my view, it is the task of SPARC to determine the highest priority needs of the Town in terms of active and passive recreational facilities, and to outline cost-effective ways and plans to satisfy the needs of it's citizens. Those proposals are then presented to, and discussed by, the Town Council who is charged with giving SPARC the guidance as to whether or not such proposals can be entertained and the funds that can be invested in them. Ultimately, it's not SPARC that is spending the Town's money, it is Town Council who controls the pursestrings, as it should be. I've also said many times that the CC's won the last election by working hard and campaigning effectively. The two newest Council members are thereby owed our respect for having won the most votes thus becoming elected representatives of all of Summerfield's citizens. That being said, I have felt uncomfortable with some of the recent conduct of Mr Crawford and Ms Strickland. I am not intimately knowlegable of Mr Crawford's efforts to uncover the identities of those who post on this forum or why he is doing it. This makes me uncomfortable not only because I think that this effort can be construed as a violation of the websites terms of use but also it doesn't seem worthy of one of our elected representatives. It could be viewed that this might be an effort to stiffle citizen's opinions and restrict free speech. After all, there is the potential that an elected representative could make life difficult for someone who dares to criticize that representative. I've also read NW Observer articles that have quoted Ms Strickland. However, I've read that she has demanded that any quotes used by the paper be used in its entirety and verbatim. I feel uncomfortable with a Council member making such a demand and I feel uncomfortable if the newspaper actually acquieces to the demand. In possessing an elected position, I believe that a Council member loses some of the rights of privacy accorded to an ordinary citizen. In other words, I feel that it's a Council members duty to the Town to explain their actions and opinions. If the newspaper uses their statements in context and accurately, then a Council member has no right to make further demands of the newspaper. Sorry to ramble on so. |
|||||||||||
|
Baseball Buddy Member
|
Thanks for the kind words Parklover. and yes I am involved with the committee. |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
From the Summerfield Town Council Forum P. 48 DOGGETTJA wrote: I thought Mark did an excellent job of controlling the meeting at one point when it almost collapsed into chaos. He showed real signs of leadership. I thought that last August when Jane posted the above comment that Mark and Bill Hill were finally getting the hang of the hushing the crowd issue. Now that the CC's are bombarding the council with their anti-park, pre-election rhetoric, the control seems to have tapered off. I definitely agree that Mark could be more assertive in hushing the cc tirades. And Bill Hill could perhaps remind him when he doesn't. However, if I remember correctly, the one time that Bob Williams (then, mayor pro tem) tried to "go over" the mayor's head and hush GD up, he caught a lot of flack for it. Of course, he did grab the gavel and I'm not sure of the exact "gavel rules"...... I also agree that Dunham shouldn't be allowed to put her coloring pages out on the same table as the official meeting documents, however I'm not sure it's illegal to do so. I'd love for the council to ask Bill Hill if this is legal if they haven't already. If it's legal, one option might be to put some much more attractive flyers filled with the TRUTH right beside hers. Of course, her flyers always provide good forum fodder..... |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
Hey What happened to ParkLover's comments. I see the name but nothing else? |
|||||||||||
|
EditorPS Administrator
|
WB wrote: It's unfortunate that there is such a great deal of acrimony since there is such potential for progress... but it's not really helpful for the CC's to have the nihilistic view of opposing virtually anything that involves financial expenditures. This does not further their own cause in that it frustrates other citizens into believing that there is nothing that can be done to make progress towards acquiring the infrastruture and facillities needed within the Town and get the buy-in of the CC's as well. Hi WB, You may have already received a proper "Welcome" but if not, I wanted to say welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your perspective. I also agree that the CCs have the potential to help, rather than hinder Summerfield. Speaking of the small handful of people who are willing to openly admit that they are part of the CC group, they appear to be intellecutal and undoubtedly spend countless hours monitoring town government activity. Unfortunately, their tactics have, as you said, not furthered their cause and in fact, they have repeatedly stumbled over their own footsteps. A constant barrage of criticism and stone throwing is no way to gain the ears, or the respect of fellow citizens. As for the CCs who were elected, I for one do not feel as though they have made any attempt to hear my opinion or to represent me or my family (we are Summerfield residents) -- in fact, I feel that I have been scorned for not thinking exactly as "they" do and the divided line between us was made clear by Ms. Strickland immediately following the election last November. Ms. Strickland was too busy to meet with me face to face, and in the year since the election rarely takes calls from the Northwest Observer or responds to e-mails. You seem to watch town activities yourself -- hope you'll become a regular on our forum so that we can share opinions and perspectives! |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
DOGGETTJA wrote: Hey What happened to ParkLover's comments. I see the name but nothing else? Parklover thought himmer was sending a Private Message to another participant, when himmer was actually posting it, therefore the postings were removed. |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
WB wrote: I think a group such as the Concerned Citizens has the potential of being helpful by raising legitimate concerns and by ensuring tight controls are maintained over the Town's funds. It's unfortunate that there is such a great deal of acrimony since there is such potential for progress. At my job, I've sometimes been accused of being so tight with a buck that I can make the dead presidents scream for mercy; but it's not really helpful for the CC's to have the nihilistic view of opposing virtually anything that involves financial expenditures. This does not further their own cause in that it frustrates other citizens into believing that there is nothing that can be done to make progress towards acquiring the infrastruture and facillities needed within the Town and get the buy-in of the CC's as well. Thank you for joining us WB. Your fresh perspective looking at "both sides" is welcome & refreshing. We look forward to more of your postings. |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
Thanks Steve I will quit worrying about blindness!!!! |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
Just read in this morning Greensboro paper that Dianne Laughlin is back as Interim Town Clerk. Welcome back Dianne. we missed you. Also thank you Robin Smith for staying another month as planner while the Town tries to figure out what to do. Sure hope they don't have to go back to Guilford County for planning services. |
|||||||||||
|
LottieDottie Member 
|
I think the board (mayor) needs to be "prepared" to deal with anyone in the audience that speaks out without permission from the board. Wouldn't that be in the rules and regulations of the boards articles of whatever? He needs to be prepared to READ to anyone that "talks" out of turn when it happens. That would get the message across that they are up on the rules and regs and it won't be tolerated. Where is the Sargent of Arms? Does the board have one? You are NOT supposed to speak out at a meeting. You must request to be heard. You just can't jump up in the middle of the meeting and spout your opinion. LottieDottie |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Greensboro's got a paper now? I be dogged. Dianne's always welcome! Glad she's back, if only temporary. Mebbe Robin'll change her mind an' stay whar she belongs. |
|||||||||||
|
LottieDottie Member
|
I would also like to say, as a past volunteer, how easy it is for a non participating person to say they would do this and that. That is not my intention. Just offering my opinion on how to handle a disruptive occurance at the TC meetings. Another thing, the papers that are placed on the table would go directly in the TRASH. Unless the person passing out the papers had the Mayor's or TC permission to place those papers on the table. Personal agendas are NOT allowed, let's quit tip toeing around. Lets say what we mean and mean what we say! LottieDottie |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
DOGGETTJA wrote:Just read in this morning Greensboro paper that Dianne Laughlin is back as Interim Town Clerk. What happened to the other clerk??? How long was she there? |
|||||||||||
|
Skiddles Member
|
LottieDottie wrote: Another thing, the papers that are placed on the table would go directly in the TRASH. Unless the person passing out the papers had the Mayor's or TC permission to place those papers on the table. Personal agendas are NOT allowed, let's quit tip toeing around. Lets say what we mean and mean what we say! So am I understanding this right, anyone with any agenda can place their propaganda out on the table during a council meeting without permission? What about organized "hate" groups? Can they place their information on the table too? I know, I know .. Freedom of Speech... but YIKES! What is the Town's policy on this issue? YEP, in the trash it should go!! |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
According to that other paper she was there 6 months. |
|||||||||||
|
Skiddles Member
|
Just read the paper. Dianne I'm really glad your back! We'll take what ever time you can give us... Last edited on Dec 3rd, 2006 02:04 pm by Skiddles |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
LottieDottie wrote:I would also like to say, as a past volunteer, how easy it is for a non participating person to say they would do this and that. That is not my intention. Just offering my opinion on how to handle a disruptive occurance at the TC meetings. Another thing, the papers that are placed on the table would go directly in the TRASH. Unless the person passing out the papers had the Mayor's or TC permission to place those papers on the table. Personal agendas are NOT allowed, let's quit tip toeing around. Lets say what we mean and mean what we say! I think I agree with you, LottieDottie. It seems that the mayor could just use Roberts' Rules of Order and take care of a lot of the disruptions. It also seems that there'd be some kind of rules about what can be posted/distributed at meetings. Is this material clearly labeled so that people know where it originated/who is behind it? Otherwise, someone could distribute propaganda and people might think it was being endorsed and/or distributed by the Town. Wonder how other towns handle this? |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
The Town has never accepted Robert Rules as the system they will follow. This issue has been debated in the past and as I remember Robert Rules really is not very workable with the council type of meetings. It is much too formal and for more rigid type agendas so over the years the Town has referred to them but they have never really been formally adopted. Also the Town will have to adopt a policy about unauthorized information. As it stands now anybody can put anything out on that table from dog walking services to porn I guess. Might be something somebody wants to discuss at the beginning of the meeting in speakers from the floor. Last edited on Dec 3rd, 2006 03:17 pm by DOGGETTJA |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
macca wrote:Is this material clearly labeled so that people know where it originated/who is behind it? Otherwise, someone could distribute propaganda and people might think it was being endorsed and/or distributed by the Town. Pappy agrees that the origin of the material makes a world o' differ'nce. Mebbe there needs to be a clearly marked separate space fer official town handouts an' one fer citizen's use. Mebbe even a toilet paper roll dispenser would be appropriate fer some. I agree the council should address these things an' impose some order without tramplin' on the First Amendment. |
|||||||||||
|
Jim Flynt Member
|
FatPappy wrote: macca wrote: Pappy, wouldn't it be better to have some town policy in place now, rather than to wait for such time when some hate group such as the KKK, Black Panthers or Neo-Nazi organization wanted to put out their materials and demanded the same rights as the CC's or any other group? They say a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Wouldn't a sound reasonable policy now reflect some wise foresight in thinking and planning for some future, more sinister scenario? |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Jim Flynt wrote:FatPappy wrote:macca wrote: Yeah, maybe DC should consider that some card-carrying group that wants to help ILLEGAL ALIENS might want to come and speak out in the middle of meetings, or distribute some literature at the meetings!! Shouldn't they be allowed to do the same thing CC's are??? |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Clear rules administered fairly an' impartially would he'p focus the meetin' on town bidness as opposed to monkey bidness. |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
macca wrote: DOGGETTJA wrote: Huh??? What happened here?? |
|||||||||||
|
Waytago Member 
|
Skiddles wrote: Just read the paper. Dianne I'm really glad your back! We'll take what ever time you can give us... Welcome back Dianne, there's a minimum employment period before you can retire again, something like..........oh, say 20 years !! |
|||||||||||
|
Waytago Member
|
Jim Flynt wrote: Pappy, wouldn't it be better to have some town policy in place now, rather than to wait for such time when some hate group such as the KKK, Black Panthers or Neo-Nazi organization wanted to put out their materials and demanded the same rights as the CC's or any other group? Amen |
|||||||||||
|
bama80 Member 
|
Well I posted in another forum that the first citizen should accdidentally take allthe material and forget to share but maybe they could just inundate the table with their own material so that the rest would be lost underneath. Also, where are the materials coming from. Are they printed on town printers? I assume the CC's would be paying for the paper, but whose printer are they using? |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Pappy wanted to find out the accuracy of a recent accusation, so I consulted someone beyond reproach who I thought might offer the appropriate insight: the Treasurer of the United Taxpayers of Fantasy Island. Question: Is the proposed Summerfield Park amphitheatre really going to cost 2.2 million dollars? Answer: No, 2.2 million dollars is actually how much money you'd have if you had a nickel for every time that baseless accusation was made. (That makes sense. After all, he does have an official sounding title.) |
|||||||||||
|
Jim Flynt Member
|
FatPappy wrote: Question: Is the proposed Summerfield Park amphitheatre really going to cost 2.2 million dollars? I am reminded of one of Ronald Reagan's favorite quotes from another American President: Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. John Adams (1735 - 1826), 'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials,' December 1770 It seems to me, that the only answer for ignorance is education. And education begins with an understanding of, appreciation for, determination of and application of the "FACTS." It is said that the proof is in the pudding, and it is time for the visionaries to establish that "proof." For those who cannot or will not open their eyes to see, let them stay standing in a river knee deep while dying of thirst. For those who would wallow in ignorance there is no hope other than education or egg on their face in the face of their ignorance. Therefore, isn't it way past time for the proactive supporters to assert the facts rather than to allow the naysayers the opportunity to establish a set of facts which are anything but factual. In other words, a proof of what other entities are building and have recently built amphitheaters for, would put to rest once and for all the ignorance behind those who spout off these $4 million dollar cost figures without having any idea at all of what they are talking about. It is hard if not impossible to argue with "the FACTS" of what other entities have actually spent to build similar facilities. Now, having said all of that, it further seems to me, that the time is now right, to put together a leadership study group to research what other cities, counties, regional consortiums, educational institutions and other entities might be spending to build or have spent to recently build amphitheaters. And then sharing those facts, once established, with the public at large. That alone would serve not only to dampen but to deaden the outrageous claims made in ignorance by those willing to wallow in their ignorance and incapable of elucidation. With just the most basic of cursory Internet searches, interestingly enough, I found several amphitheaters under construction around the country as well as photos and background information (including costs). I am going to include weblinks to just two of these amphitheaters, one which was built in a Seattle park with much of the construction donated by contractors and another seating 500 people built for George Fox University for $130,000.00. I am convinced that there are dozens or more perfect examples which could be derived to establish factual costs as well as assist in avoiding mistakes that other entities might have made during the planning and implementation of their developments. I will try to find some time to do more research and would love to be part of a study group if there is interest on the part of others. Here are the links to two amphitheater projects and make sure to view the construction photos which provide great detail of the before and after appearances. http://www.cityofseattle.net/magnusongarden/Amphitheater/Amphi.htm http://www.georgefox.edu/construction/ Now isn't it time that "we" took the lead in shaping the Summerfield amphitheater debate instead of allowing the ignorant and their ignorance to prevail? I am convinced that we will win the war not by meeting the enemy on the battlefield with swords drawn or tirades exchanged, but rather by confronting the opposition and simply compromising their lies with FACTS. As President Reagan liked to say: Facts are stubborn things! Last edited on Dec 5th, 2006 03:04 am by Jim Flynt |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
Jim Flynt wrote: With just the most basic of cursory Internet searches, interestingly enough, I found several amphitheaters under construction around the country as well as photos and background information (including costs). I am going to include weblinks to just two of these amphitheaters, one which was built in a Seattle park with much of the construction donated by contractors and another seating 500 people built for George Fox University for $130,000.00. Those are great pics Jim! That first one is beautiful and that 130,000 one is pretty nice too.... I'd settle for that one if I can't have the one that costs 4 mil. I think they've told themselves their version of "the facts" so much now that they've convinced themselves that we are building a coliseum or something. Definitely wading in a river and dying of thirst. |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
Ok Jim I accept the chanllenge and here is my contribution. Per the Summerfield Parks Master Plan Draft Report March 22, 2002 under Park Side Pase 2 Estimating assumptions section D Ampitheater The following costs are listed. Grading/shaping $35,000 Walls,stone 890LF 16" high @ $60LF $53,400 Walks, 300LF 5' wide+1500 sq @ $6/sf $9,000 Stage 900SF @$6 sq $5,400 Electircal $ 15,000 Toatal estimated in 2002 $117,400 That is the official estimate for the ampitheater for the Summerfield park. I realize there will have to be some adjusting for inflation but still A long way from 2-4 million. That is the truth as I know it. |
|||||||||||
|
Baseball Buddy Member
|
So what rate of inflation are the CC's using? $130,000.00 in 2002 verses 2 to 4 million in 2006-7 ? Can they actually plea ignorance? Fabrication of fact, yes! Manipulation of others ignorance? Yes! Such well educated people that refuse to look at the real facts. Where do they get their estimated cost of 2.2 to 4 million dollars as Ms Dunham spoke of? My father, a construction engineer and has managed several multi- million dollar projects , laughs at this and says "I could retire from just 1 project if this is so." This has to stop! Let's set the record straight each time this is mentioned. |
|||||||||||
|
Jim Flynt Member
|
Baseball Buddy wrote: Let's set the record straight each time this is mentioned. It appears to me that there is some degree of credence that we attach by even continuing to bandy about their $4 million dollar cost figure. Our doing so only serves to continue the broadcast of an incorrect misleading number in front of the public eye. I'm sure the other side delights every time someone here throws that number out, which only serves as negative reinforcement in the public mind. I agree with you that the record needs to be made straight, and I suggest the best way to do that, is by doing the necessary research and then putting together a "truth package" based on that research which would then be disseminated to the general public in Summerfield. That package should/could include costs from other amphitheater construction projects around the country within the past 3 years. Perhaps some photos and supporting data could be attached as well. It would not hurt and would serve the public interest well, if a short history of amphitheaters and their broader public use was also discussed and included. From my cursory research last night, it also seems to me that the experiences of these other entitites and communities would be a vital source of information regarding grants, funding, operations costs, and income from various activities which these communities have experienced perhaps in ways that have not been anticipated and envisioned in Summerfield. It is said that in politics, perceptions become reality (at least to voters), so it is imperative that henceforth perceptions be shaped by the reality of actual cost data from the research proposed rather than the continuing ignorance from the munchkins of Never Never Land and Fantasy Island spouting venom and lies. Here is the bottom line. It is time to shift the debate from us trying to disprove their illusory fantasy numbers and let the debate shift to forcing them to disprove the cost figures we derive from a review of other actual real communitites and entities. It is time for us to stop focusing on the saplings and start overseeing the forest. In fact, we would do well to stop even mentioning their $4 million dollar number as it only adds to their enjoyment in seeing the squirming discomfort of the proactive group and continues to inadvertantly perpetuate their myths and flights of fantasy. Last edited on Dec 5th, 2006 12:36 pm by Jim Flynt |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
You make a good point Jim... much like one we've pointed out before about giving the 2 "troublesome" council members all of the press and attention which only serves to brand their names in the minds of the public who don't bother to keep up with the political happenings. So I guess what you are saying is, that we could just publish that our amphitheater is gonna cost a hundred grand and that a lot of that will be covered by grants. |
|||||||||||
|
Jim Flynt Member
|
Cracker Jax wrote:
Crackah, again from just the most cursory of reviews of cost data from other cities and entities, it would certainly appear that an amphitheaterr could easily be constructed for a cost of somewhere between $100,000.00 (One Hundred Thousand Dollars) and $200,000.00 (Two Hundred Thousand Dollars). Again, from my limited research, it would certainly appear that other cities and entities have been and were successful in funding all or great parts of their amphitheater costs through grants, gifts, corporate sponsorships and other creative financial means. More indepth research is likely to uncover even more creative ideas which would flow to the benefit of the proposed Summerfield project. The proof is in the pudding and the proof from actual real experiences from other communities around the country would certainly be hard to argue with and ignore. There is an old story about the Baptist Church which inherited a modest sum of money upon the death of one of it's members, a widow. The Baptist Church called a meeting of their membership to discuss what to do with this unexpected 'gift' of money. One member stood up and made a motion that the Baptist Church buy some chandeliers for the church house. Wherein another jumped up in response, and immediately said, "before we go buying those chandeliers, I think we need to consider buying some lights for the church house." I think that analogy might be especially appropriate here. People are generally fearful and xenophobic about words and things with which they are not familiar and accustomed to having experienced. There are probably a large number of Northwest citizens who wouldn't know the difference between an amphitheater and an amplifier, and so it becomes imperative that a logical process be utilized to educate them to the benefits of such an amphitheater. As a "buzzword" an "amphitheater" purported to cost $4 Million Dollars would stick in the minds of those less aware and would reinforce the negative message that the CC's are trying to send. It makes for great political sloganeering and paints an icon that folks aren't likely going to forget. We simply can't ignore the force of that subliminal message. Perhaps by showing them the many uses to which such a facility could accommodate, they might well buy into 'ownership' and support for such a project. Again, a cursory review of the experiences of other cities and entities show some creative uses, which I doubt have been shared with the Summerfield public. Those are and would be great selling points and marketing tools in shaping the debate for support for such a facility. I will try to do some more research and share some examples of uses which may not have been considered and then post those in the days ahead. Last edited on Dec 5th, 2006 02:54 pm by Jim Flynt |
|||||||||||
|
Hairbrush Member
|
Jim, I am ready to bring some positive information to the town. I think we should distant ourselves from the concerned citizens by showing them what the town can do. I am ready to help with research on amphitheatres. I am leaving for the rest of the week but would love to do some research and then maybe we can put it together in a nice attractive way to presented to the people of Summerfield. |
|||||||||||
|
bama80 Member
|
someone should wear one of those signs that hang on your body (you know the ones that say the end is near) to the TC meeting but have pics of ampitheaters around the US and in big type how much they cost. |
|||||||||||
|
Hairbrush Member
|
Bama I love that idea. We could have so much fun with that. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Scuba Jane could wear the "sandwich boards" right over her scuba outfit!! What a great way to bring attention to this great project!!! ♥♥♥ |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
You get the sign. I have the scuba gear. I bet that would get peoples attention!!1 |
|||||||||||
|
Cracker Jax Member
|
At last night's council meeting Mark Brown stated that he had been to an "obesity prevention" seminar, and along with the mayors of adjoining towns, he would like support this program. They had requested that a representative from the town attend monthly meetings to support the program. Mark stated that Sue Beeson had graciously volunteered to do it and asked for the council's approval. Here's where it gets good. Councilman Crawford couldn't seem to get over the fact that there was an obesity prevention program and said that if you eat cheeseburgers then your pants would go up a size. Simple as that. When Strickland and other council members tried to explain to him that the program was targeting kids and trying to teach kids how to lead healthier lives, Crawford stated that "Parents aren't doing their jobs". (as far as I know, Crawford is not a parent so what does he know about parenting?) Perhaps if Mark had put it in the form of a resolution it would have been more appealing to Crawford. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Crackah, I've heard of this program... Glad to hear there is local participation. I hope our other two towns will do it as well... So, if it doesn't concern DC it's not important? What about parents who aren't responsibly doing their jobs or who just don't know better? In the long run, doesn't that affect all of us in some way? Isn't education (ie - prevention) better than treatment??? Hasn't this attitude about "parents doing their jobs" come up in other discussions as well? I sure am glad he lives in Summerfield!! BTW: When he was offering to take folks out to dinner for "discussions," I'm assuming he was only going to purchase the healthiest of food for them??!?? |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Cracker Jax wrote:
Includin' his? I think Citizen Crawford needs to join a online forum (I'd be glad to recommend a good'n) an' stop wastin' council minutes fer his personal philosophizin'. I also wish he'd learn how to pick some real battles an' do the job he was voted in to do now an' then. He embarrasses hisse'f in my opinion. |
|||||||||||
|
Jim Flynt Member
|
The latest item in the news is there is now a new drug for dogs to cure canine obesity. I suppose we dog owners are guilty of not parenting correctly. Of course, my Fat Puppies are sorta like Fat Pappy, they eat everything you put in front of them and then some. |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Has anyone noticed the cc4summerfield.org website has been cleaned out? Not nary nuthin' on them pages no more, 'ceptin' a home page with the web address listed. Looks like one o' the steerin' committee done let go o' the steerin' wheel! Hee hee! Cain't say if he jumped or was pushed. Looks like hard times to me. You'd think a all-powerful political juggernaut with a massive membership of THEN THERE WERE TWO could maintain a decent website. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Wow, Pappy! I just went there to see for myself! What a beautiful sight! Ummmm, I mean site! Wonder what happened!?! ♥♥♥ BTW, PAPPY!! I STILL LOVE THE WAY YOU TURN A PHRASE!!! (Looks like a good candidate for "chatter" to me!!)"Looks like one o' the steerin' committee done let go o' the steerin' wheel! Hee hee! Cain't say if he jumped or was pushed. Looks like hard times to me. You'd think a all-powerful political juggernaut with a massive membership of THEN THERE WERE TWO could maintain a decent website." |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
I checked it out also. I guess maybe the steering committee got what hey wanted and now they want people to forget who they are. |
|||||||||||
|
Baseball Buddy Member
|
Remember, Groups such as this sometimes go dormant. Then just before an election the show up supporting something else just to get their foot back in the door. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Good point, Buddy!!! |
|||||||||||
|
Jim Flynt Member
|
Baseball Buddy wrote: Remember, Groups such as this sometimes go dormant. Then just before an election the show up supporting something else just to get their foot back in the door. I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps they are trying to fly below radar and lull people into believing they have vanished. Only to pop up right before the next election full blast and in battle mode. |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
Dormant? Y'all make 'em sound like a virus hidin' out in the alimentary canal. Pappy cain't he'p but wonder if there really is a "group." I've seen more evidence o' bigfoot's existence than I have of a large, sustained Concerned Citizens followin'. Still, y'all's advice makes sense. Whether they're a group, a herd, a PAC, or just a individual or two behind the Wizard o' Oz curtain, their capacity fer devilment shouldn't be underestimated. |
|||||||||||
|
Waytago Member
|
However, the neat part is...if & when any of this stuff does happen, the Friends For Summerfield are going to blow them away !!!!!!!!!!!! FFS already represents a larger population than CC's ever thought about, people are contacting SMS wanting to join the movement. People didn't want to be bothered with a cloak & dagger organization like CC's, who operated in mystique like Fred Flintstones "Loyal Order of Water Buffalos". FFS is taking the right approach, positive attitude, listening to citizens, doing what is right for Summerfield. The CC website is gone, the organization can't be found, so WHY is this thread still here? Why are we wasting our time talking about cloak & dagger? Why not bury this topic in the forum graveyard? |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
Well, I know that SMS has said before he could move topics to the "closed forums" and then folks could reopen (or open a newer version) if it was warranted later.... What do you say, Steve? |
|||||||||||
|
FatPappy Member
|
I get tired o' talkin' about 'em, b'lieve it or not. I vote fer buryin' it before it starts to stink. |
|||||||||||
|
macca Member
|
macca wrote:Well, I know that SMS has said before he could move topics to the "closed forums" and then folks could reopen (or open a newer version) if it was warranted later.... What do you say, Steve? Oh, yeah.... This was a newer version of the original already, huh? Well, then a 3rd version could be opened up if warranted..... or not! |
|||||||||||
|
Steve Adkins Member
|
I can bury a topic with a couple keystrokes. There are usually two "either/or" defining criteria I use (subjectively) 1) no posts since two months before, ie, now is about the time I would be burying those topics not active since November 2) the subject has ended in value ie (Forgive me Jim) Christmas lights On those with subjectivity, I very much go with the wishes of the forum participants, ie Scott L requested the green topics remain til winter is over and things start turning green again, so now there is a whole separate "green" forum for those topics. If the group wishes the CC topic buried, it shall be done. Last edited on Jan 30th, 2007 10:47 am by Steve Adkins |
|||||||||||
|
DOGGETTJA Member
|
In this new year and with the efforts of so many to improve the vision in Summerfield lets bury this subject. Somebody does not consider them to have enough support to maintain a website so why should we continue to beat the dead horse. Lets all move over to the Friends for Summerfield site and start concentrating on the positive. See you over there. |
|||||||||||
|
summerfieldrd Banned
|
I love having the last word! |
|||||||||||
|
Jim Flynt Member
|
summerfieldrd wrote: I love having the last word! Actually, it is the VOTERS who always have the LAST WORD. |
|||||||||||
|
summerfieldrd Banned
|
DOOOHHHHH!! |
|||||||||||
