| Moderated by: Steve Adkins | Topic closed | |
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gotobeme Member 
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Hey everyone, Have you all taken a look at the new drop off for NW High? It looks like a good idea, however, I, as usual, have questions about the safety of it all. Right now, it appears that the road leading around the main parking lot and the new practice field will join the main parking lot and the smaller lot at an angle. It will lead into the road coming from the lower lot and the exit from the main lot nearest the two story building. This will prove to be a challenge for our student drivers. I guess the school will need another traffic director..... But over all, I do like the idea of a drop off in the rear area of the school to minimize traffic in the front. This will allow the buses to enter and exit without the added pressure of congestion. It will also make it safer for students riding the buses and parents picking up students in the mornings and afternoons. And can we say a big YEA ! for the traffic light going up at Alcorn Rd. with added lanes to accomodate traffic turning right. Somebody cares......almost bring tears to my eyes..... Gotobeme Last edited on Jun 27th, 2006 01:16 pm by gotobeme |
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zippitydoodah Member
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I like the idea, but I hope it will do what they think it will as far as congestion on NW School Rd. I'm worried about the traffic around NW middle cause its as bad as at the high school. I agree with Sandra's editorial. I'm really irritated that they gave the money away to Dudley before they fixed the problem here!!!!!! And did it in secret no less. |
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DToney Member 
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zippitydoodah wrote: I agree with Sandra's editorial. I'm really irritated that they gave the money away to Dudley before they fixed the problem here!!!!!! And did it in secret no less. At the risk of getting an "off topic" I would have to agree with your comment! Why does NWHS keep getting the short end of the stick? |
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Steve Adkins Member 
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DToney wrote: At the risk of getting an "off topic" I would have to agree with your comment! Why does NWHS keep getting the short end of the stick? You're not OT, you're dead on. Sandra's editorial was dead on also.......seems like the moral to the story is, spend the money quickly before someone changes their mind. |
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DToney Member
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it appears no one had a chance to change their minds... no one knew! until it was too late, of course... that the money was at risk of being given away. NW needs 10 times that amount to get the building in better shape!  what is it with these guys? |
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Anna Diemer Member
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I was also worried a bit about the traffic in the student lot. Will students still be able to get out if parents sit and park in the drop-off circle waiting for their student? I just saw the projected number of students for NWHS next year and about died. I've never been very impressed with the school system, and I am glad that this will be my last year in it, especially since Northwest doesn't get much. |
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DToney Member
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My daughter & I have discussed this very issue... why hasn't County Council or the School board seen this if it is so apparent to the students? We desperately need a bigger building.... I'll stop with that because I'll get back on my soapbox again! |
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macca Member 
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You just have to wonder if any of these people (County Commissioners/Board of Ed) ever get out and see the effects of their policies and decisions in the real world? |
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DToney Member
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They have certainly not had to walk down the ever so overcrowded hallways at NWHS! Much less had to deal with parking or the everyday life there.... the new drop off is one positive aspect that will help in the interim.... but what good is it to keep putting band-aids on the stuff that drives people nuts? Why don't they fix the real problem... which is the school is OVERCROWDED... thus the transportation problem. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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DToney wrote: My daughter & I have discussed this very issue... why hasn't County Council or the School board seen this if it is so apparent to the students? We desperately need a bigger building....When Northern High School opens in 2008, hopefully that will help some. I think something like 750 kids from NW will go to Northern, but that still means NW will be overcrowded. |
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DToney Member
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S. Smith wrote: DToney wrote:My daughter & I have discussed this very issue... why hasn't County Council or the School board seen this if it is so apparent to the students? We desperately need a bigger building....When Northern High School opens in 2008, hopefully that will help some. I think something like 750 kids from NW will go to Northern, but that still means NW will be overcrowded. JUST 750 kids is not enough... esp with kids being shoulder to shoulder in the halls now. Even if they had a school twice as big, it would still probably not be enough space... (not to mention the age of the original facility  ) |
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Steve Adkins Member
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S. Smith wrote: When Northern High School opens in 2008, hopefully that will help some. I think something like 750 kids from NW will go to Northern, but that still means NW will be overcrowded. If NW has around 2,500 kids, and 750 go to NW, that will leave around 1,750. NW is geared toward something around 1,600......is that what you are referring to Sandra? We're 100 feet under ground now, the water table is 50 feet deep, the new school will get us to 55 feet deep, maybe less pressure but still not enough to be comfortable? |
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Anna Diemer Member
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I definitely agree with your "pressure" statement, Steve. The northwest area is growing so fast that I think NWHS will be perpetually crowded, at least some. The sad thing for me is that none of the pressure relieving will affect me, since I'll have graduated before Northern is ready. |
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DToney Member
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Steve, Do your numbers reflect the space including all of the 20+ mobile classrooms? I for one would love to see a NWHS that was not dependent on those types of facilities. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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DToney, good question, and actually I am not sure. It sticks in my mind that the capacity of NWHS without the mobile classrooms is geared to 1,600 (approx). Therefore anything above 1,600 would require some external capacity like mobile units. If someone else can clarify, would be appreciated. Is 1,600 the right number, and does it reflect brick & mortar building without mobiles? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Anna Diemer wrote: I definitely agree with your "pressure" statement, Steve. The northwest area is growing so fast that I think NWHS will be perpetually crowded, at least some. Agreed Anna With the projected drop in enrollment to 1,750, NWHS would need to be expanded to the 2,400 range, to achieve around 75% capacity, in order to absorb the local growth for a few years. I barely know what I'm talking about, but in my mind the mathematics are so simple, it is just sad our BOE "leaders" are looking the other way on this situation. Last edited on Jul 13th, 2006 02:47 am by Steve Adkins |
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Kris McNeill Member
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Last edited on Jul 20th, 2006 04:42 pm by Kris McNeill |
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Kris McNeill Member
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http://www.dormanhigh.org Last edited on Jul 20th, 2006 04:43 pm by Kris McNeill |
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StewartM Member 
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WOW Kris I went to the web site, what a school....its said enrollment was 2722...thats 9th thur 12th grade.......We need the school board to take a look at what a school this size should be like......I wonder how they funded it.....Lottery???....Thanks for the info Last edited on Jul 13th, 2006 06:44 pm by StewartM |
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Kris McNeill Member
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Last edited on Jul 20th, 2006 04:44 pm by Kris McNeill |
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S. Smith Moderator
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You're right, Kris. Dorman High School is incredible. I'm more and more concerned about the lottery and how much it is going to help in building new schools. I do think it will help some, but the problem is that since it is touted as an education lottery, people will think bonds are not needed and won't vote for them. And the state may say that since so much money is being raised for education that they don't need to fund as much (giving with one hand and taking with the other). Here's some local education math (doesn't take a mathematician to figure this one out): Guilford County being 20 years behind on school construction + Northern won't even get NWHS down to permanent capacity + with more people moving to this area = BIG PROBLEMS (my opinion only.....) |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Kris McNeill wrote: SMS is gonna bring on the sign Hmmmmmmmmm................ |
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dmauser Member
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Okay I have to jump in here, as a person that fought hard to get relief for NWMS and more for Summerfield and NWHS I can't stand it. You are right about numbers, as I told the BOE at about 20 meetings! take a school with 2500-750 plus 10% growth that we have and inthe year 2011 (when all 750 will be at Northern) and you have over 2000. Anyone want to bet a pizza I am close to the correct number? As to the question, why don't they fix the school, the answer is always $$ and the fact that we make good scores, so they see it as 'not broke'-- Remember Dudley not working right after $31 million dollar project? They yell racism and take our money to fix things that weren't even in the project, yet NWHS had cuts from that same bond. NEMS got an expansion because their school was in 'worse' shape than NWMS, built the same year, and not nearly as overcrowded... think about it folks! It is all political |
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DToney Member
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Dorman is my old "neck of the woods" & my cousin's child graduated from there. Where we just moved from was Lexington... my daughter's school would have been White Knoll - a relatively new building. Lottery money did not have a thing to do with either building... it was tax dollars! see this link... https://www.edline.net/pages/White_Knoll_High_School they currently have 1,679 students, but the building (if I'm not mistaken) was built for 3,300 about 5 years ago... I just don't see how they can build the new Northern so small... yeah... everyone "wants" a small school, but the reality is that we "need" larger ones to house the amount of students we need to educate... and the numbers increase each year... Last edited on Jul 21st, 2006 11:12 pm by DToney |
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dmauser Member
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As politically incorrect as this is I will say it anyway. The politicans will hint at this very thing without admitting it, but its white flight that makes the cities cring.. it leaves the poverty level and ethnic mix in the cities very skewd and they don't like it. With high poverty levels at Smith, Dudley, its hard to keep the kids passing (they have been failing and dropping lower for years) Many want to save those children by redistricting so that the numbers change.. mind you those students don't get a better education, they are just hidden from view. |
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DToney Member
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I'm all for "neighborhood schools" rather than moving kids around just for the sake of numbers.... |
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S. Smith Moderator
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From what I've seen attending many meetings over the years (and especially the meetings when redistricting was discussed), parents almost universally are in favor of community schools. I think Debora can attest to this too. They ensure that you go to the closest school, that you go to the school with kids in your neighborhood, and that parents can more easily participate in school activities because they don't have to travel across town to get to a school -- something some parents couldn't do if they wanted to because, unlike most of us out here, they don't have their own transportation. Unfortunately this process does lead to disparity, and that is what needs to be fixed. I can actually understand the Mission Possible program. It's not that teachers in other schools (such as the NW-area schools) are less dedicated to their profession -- but if you have to work harder to try to get the scores of kids up, if you have to work harder to try to get parental help, if your safety is possibly endangered, why not get paid more? I also like the magnet school concept. Many of them are located in areas where the schools are more in the low-performing bracket, which gets kids of other "socio-economic backgrounds" into the school. The only complaint I've heard about this is that sometimes neighborhood kids get moved to another school to make room for the kids who have signed up to go to the magnet. I've also heard from some parents whose kids attend the school that if your kids don't go to the magnet (they're in the "regular" classes in the school), you are sometimes overlooked or treated like a second-class citizen. |
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DToney Member
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"class" now that is an issue in itself! as for violence in schools... with more parental involvement... that too drops... |
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dmauser Member
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Sandra, Well said. My only problem with Mission Possible is moving teachers that have had negative value added scores for two years to another school without additional training. It makes it seem like the students are the only reason for 'negative growth' no responsibilty given to good or bad teaching. These teachers will be moved to other schools and then need help learning how to perfect their profession, and not continue doing what has created 'negative growth' Magnet schools have historically been put into low poverty areas to bring the mix that you spoke of, but the problem is that all data says that magnets aren't as successful unless the entire school is magnet based, which in turn displaces the neighborhood children. You notice there are no magnets in the county other than Brown Summit Middle, which is not a huge success story. It is suppose to be a higher academic environment, but has until this year no qualifications for attendance. Many people that I know have withdrawn their students since hours of instruction time for advanced courses have been used for remedial education. |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member 
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DToney wrote:
And yet all of the statistics show that smaller schools are better on every level --- in terms of safety, educational opportunities, etc. I don't think we want to build huge warehouses just to get something new.... In the long run, it will not be worth it. We've got a long way to go, but bigger is not necessarily better. |
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DToney Member
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it has to be better than 20+ mobiles to band-aid the problem....... |
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macca Member
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Hmmmmmm. Sorry, but I feel the need to point out that this is titled "New Drop-Off," but only the initial posting is about that.... There is ANOTHER one for "Miscellaneous," which the rest would likely fit under...♥♥♥ |
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EditorPS Administrator 
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Steve Adkins wrote: It sticks in my mind that the capacity of NWHS without the mobile classrooms is geared to 1,600 (approx). Therefore anything above 1,600 would require some external capacity like mobile units. Sorry to be so slow in responding, Steve. I actually need to confirm the permanent capacity of Northwest High School, since the expansion a few years ago did add more cafeteria, classroom, media center and gym space. Prior to that, the school had 42 mobile units (might have been 41 or 43, but I'm within one), setting a record for the school with the most mobile units in the county. I'm thinking you're right that the expansion brought the school up to a permanent capacity of approx. 1,600, but again, will need to confirm this. You are correct about "capacity" meaning brick and mortar. The permanent capacity of a school refers not only to the amount of classroom capacity, but cafeteria capacity, media center capacity, auditorium capacity and gym capacity. That's why, even when mobile units were added each year in response to Northwest High's growth, many of the kids still had to eat lunch outside or in the hallways. The cafeteria didn't house them all, one gym was grossly insufficient for all the sports team to practice at "regular" times of the day, the auditorium was, and remains at a capacity of about 1,000, which of course means that there can never be a program in which more than two grades can attend - the rest have to watch on video, which just isn't the same. That brings me to another subject, which is school spirit ... but I'll post that in a separate topic since this one was set up for Drop-Off. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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macca wrote: Hmmmmmm. Sorry, but I feel the need to point out that this is titled "New Drop-Off," but only the initial posting is about that.... There is ANOTHER one for "Miscellaneous," which the rest would likely fit under...♥♥♥ EditorPS wrote: That brings me to another subject, which is school spirit ... but I'll post that in a separate topic since this one was set up for Drop-Off. The "drop off" was driven by the overall issue of over-capacity at NWHS, which all of these comments tie together into, so I don't think we're terribly off topic. At least Monty hasn't brought his sign out yet. Thanks Patti for clarification. Anna's definition would probably (and rightfully be) "I get smushed in the hallways and my feet get stepped on walking between classes". Anybody can symphathize with that answer. Which is like trying to run 4 lanes worth of cars on a 2 lane highway (220?). Last edited on Jul 23rd, 2006 01:43 pm by Steve Adkins |
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gotobeme Member
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Hey Steve, Let me drop this in your ear....while we are talking about the drop-off, I believe that we need to focus also on school safety. The drop off will or may provide for a new drop off point, but when an additional 150 plus car are in with an already 711 or so in the same area and trying to pickup and leave at the same time, one can't help but ask, "what were they thinking". There are no new road designs, except the new lanes placed at the end of Northwest School Rd and Alcorn Rd. The light may help if it is up before school starts. The problem I see is that the traffic from the parking lot and middle school will still have a choice of direction to travel instead of being made to travel one way or the other. I guess we will just have to see how this will work. The administration staff may need some help directing traffic at the school. I dont believe that one officer can do it all. Oh yea, speaking of officer and safety. Did you know that Mr. Kidd placed the officer or OP in the Vocats Building next to the field house, the furthest location possible from the main office and main student body. I thought the officers in the school supposed to be in a location that would provide for immediate response and or safety for staff and students. What do you think? I feel that this is a serious reflection on how the administration view safety at NW. I would definately want the officer nearest to my child and not in a building that is not even attached to the main one where he can not see nor hear if anything is going on. His travel to and from the building would be a concern also (ie; weather and other conditions) I am for the school doing well, but well for all involved. We cant have a safe school if those who are responsible for its safety are improperly displaced from the main stream. gotobeme |
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dmauser Member
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it's my understanding that OP office is going to be used for classroom space-- I think it's a mistake to put him out of the main area. OP has always helped with traffice, but the truth is that is not their job and if something else is going on they have to handle that first. I think their should be car duty assigned to teachers with a large bright jacket so they don't get run over either. |
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DToney Member
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great points gotobeme! OP really needs to be closer to the building... if not inside! Dang... a corner in the Media Center or somewhere would be better than that type of isolation! |
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Anna Diemer Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: Anna's definition would probably (and rightfully be) "I get smushed in the hallways and my feet get stepped on walking between classes". Anybody can symphathize with that answer. Which is like trying to run 4 lanes worth of cars on a 2 lane highway (220?). Steve, you are exactly right.  I was at the school yesterday and drove through the student parking lot to check out the construction. It still looks like they're pushing a bunch of red clay around, but I could definitely see the new practice field and where the drop-off loop would be. I just hope they can finish it in time for school starting (I guess they still have two and a half weeks), else parking will be a gross, muddy mess. Speaking of parking, have any of your students received their parking passes this year? Does anyone know how they're assigning parking? (I haven't gotten mine yet.) |
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gotobeme Member
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I am all for that only if resources, teachers and money are equally spread around. It is not about how I feel about my child but for every child to be treated equally and given a decent chance to grow socially and economically. Gotobeme |
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gotobeme Member
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Yea, Well said....I think the problem here is that we sometimes get carried away with so many issues, that it become hard to focus......We just have to wait and see about the drop-off. Gotobeme |
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gotobeme Member
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This is what I heard about parking.....They have chosen random days to register Seniors only for now. After all seniors have registered, Juniors with zero period will be allowed to register. I guess that means that if school starts, Juniors will have to wait until every senior is registered. They dont want the same problems they had last year when some seniors did not get a chance to register. Next, Juniors with zero period, then the remaining juniors will be placed in a lottery drawing for the remaining spots. I do know that every junior will not be able to get a space. Again, numbers. The school only has 700 or so spaces. They have 550 plus seniors and 530 plus juniors and at least 300 plus sophomore drivers. So the problem is space again this year. There is no easy way to solve this problem from what I see. There will always be a need from someone's point of view for their child to drive. I heard that OP will not be involved with parking this year and that the entire parking registration and control has been given to Mr. Sockwell, one of the assistant principals. gotobeme |
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Cracker Jax Member 
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So a sophomore with a zero period can't get a pass??? Is that correct gotobeme?? |
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gotobeme Member
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That's what I am hearing....Only Seniors and Juniors will be allowed to park on campus this year. Gotobeme |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Okay, I checked out the new student drop-off this morning. Even though it was the first day of school, it seemed to be working pretty well at about 8:10. I don't know about how things went later. Once you got off NW School Road and onto the drop-off road, it was a breeze. Just making your way through the traffic on NW School Road was a headache, as always. But since the road is so much longer than the area in the front of the school, it did keep that area from getting congested. The area around the middle school is still a mess and something really needs to be done over there. |
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dmauser Member
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Yes, the middle school needs work and we were told that after the Northern Middle school opened and our numbers dropped (ha ha) that we would look at it again. They then gave the money to Dudley |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Well, now it is going to cost $7.2 million to fix those middle schools, which I think should be no surprise based on what all I understand had to be done. I guess the moral is if you get money from the county, spend it while you've got it. If it ever goes back, it'll never be seen again. |
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dmauser Member
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you are probably correct, but the proposed solutions were worse than the already known mess. I have already sent a reminder to Darlene and will send one to Joe Hill that we were promised that fix prior and should be put back on the list. I will continue to fight for this area. If NWMS, Summerfield and Laughlin aren't on the next bond, I will activily campaign against the bond, no matter how bad the county needs it. NWMS number yesterday 1102 (plus Northern around 160) |
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DToney Member
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dmauser wrote: Yes, the middle school needs work and we were told that after the Northern Middle school opened and our numbers dropped (ha ha) that we would look at it again. They then gave the money to Dudley Posted: Aug 25th, 2006 01:15 pm you are probably correct, but the proposed solutions were worse than the already known mess. I have already sent a reminder to Darlene and will send one to Joe Hill that we were promised that fix prior and should be put back on the list. I will continue to fight for this area. If NWMS, Summerfield and Laughlin aren't on the next bond, I will activily campaign against the bond, no matter how bad the county needs it. NWMS number yesterday 1102 (plus Northern around 160) ok... i heard they took our money & all, but what were we promised? (sorry... trying to keep up....) It is obvious Guilford County has neglected NW for quite some time for our school buildings are really old... and way too many mobiles!!! In SC they would call it a hazard... too many in one small area.... I'm really surprised at the lack of proper planning & budgeting by the county for our schools... |
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DToney Member
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hubby says when he dropped ours off this morning... much better! Let's hope we can start getting stuff done........... |
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DToney Member
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any updated views on the drop off? |
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DToney Member
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S. Smith wrote: Well, now it is going to cost $7.2 million to fix those middle schools, which I think should be no surprise based on what all I understand had to be done.btw... last estimates are up to around $9mm  |
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DToney Member
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dmauser wrote: you are probably correct, but the proposed solutions were worse than the already known mess. I have already sent a reminder to Darlene and will send one to Joe Hill that we were promised that fix prior and should be put back on the list. I will continue to fight for this area. If NWMS, Summerfield and Laughlin aren't on the next bond, I will activily campaign against the bond, no matter how bad the county needs it. NWMS number yesterday 1102 (plus Northern around 160)NWHS's overcrowding issue will not go away with the new Northern opening up... we REALLY need more space..... and get rid of the mobiles!!!!! I will be protesting any county expenditure that don't support some new projects that attempt to rid this county of these pesky make-shift "classrooms"... especially museums & parks... education should be priority! Last edited on Oct 7th, 2006 01:04 am by DToney |
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