Northwest Observer Forums > Closed Topics > Previous Topics > Reflections on Dr. Grier and the school board
Northwest Observer Forums > Closed Topics > Previous Topics > Reflections on Dr. Grier and the school board |
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NWTeach Member
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After reading through many of the topics and threads, I wasn't sure where to begin. This year there has been a push by the school board and Dr. Grier to improve scores on EOCs, the state writing tests, and the SAT. There have been required workshops for teachers, and a conflict between teaching the curriculum and pushing it aside to give many benchmarks and teach test strategies. This is most apparent in certain courses of math and English. There are also constant suggestions for improvement given by administrators, and given through mass emails and memos containing articles and statistics on strategies. There have been stories of teachers already being told not to come back because of low test scores. And everyone has heard about the recent threat to close down schools not performing well. There is a lot of stress on teachers because of all of this. Though I have survived this push this year, it does not surprise me that people are leaving, even in the best schools. There is a new issue: The school board is discussing a new incentive program to improve test scores at low-performing schools. It was tabled last week but will come up again at the next budget meeting (Monday, April 17 @ 5:30). It is called Mission Possible. An article was in the News and Record last Monday about the program. It will give money to teachers who sign up to work in the low-performing schools and again if their students perform well. The catch is these incentives are going to have to come from the local teacher supplement. Teachers who do not work at these schools and perform well will not receive the incentives and at the same time will have a pay cut since the supplement will be lost. This is outrageous. Most teachers work hard, including at high-performing schools. They certainly don’t deserve to have any of their pay taken away. I imagine this will cause even more problems with teacher turnover and what happens within the classroom. |
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FatPappy Member 
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Welcome to the forum, NWTeach! |
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WHE Member 
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NWTeach wrote: There is a new issue: The school board is discussing a new incentive program to improve test scores at low-performing schools. It was tabled last week but will come up again at the next budget meeting (Monday, April 17 @ 5:30). It is called Mission Possible. An article was in the News and Record last Monday about the program. It will give money to teachers who sign up to work in the low-performing schools and again if their students perform well. The catch is these incentives are going to have to come from the local teacher supplement. Teachers who do not work at these schools and perform well will not receive the incentives and at the same time will have a pay cut since the supplement will be lost. This is outrageous. Most teachers work hard, including at high-performing schools. They certainly don’t deserve to have any of their pay taken away. I imagine this will cause even more problems with teacher turnover and what happens within the classroom. NWTeach, thank you for the well-composed update on what appears to be yet more nonsense from our school administration. I was previously unaware of this travesty ( the term dumbing down comes to mind) and hope that this idea is soundly defeated. It won't be, unless the public gets involved and speaks up! The LAST thing our GOOD teachers need now is to become victims of the ineffectiveness of LOUSY teachers who have no business teaching in the first place. This type of social engineering has simply got to stop. I appeal to all readers of this forum to express your personal views on this topic with your school board representative (Don't wait and expect SOMEONE ELSE to do it for you). These are OUR kids caught up in this mess and after all of the good teachers have bailed, then what? |
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macca Member 
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WHE wrote: I appeal to all readers of this forum to express your personal views on this topic with your school board representative (Don't wait and expect SOMEONE ELSE to do it for you). These are OUR kids caught up in this mess and after all of the good teachers have bailed, then what? What we need to do is contact ALL of the Board members, not just ours. And if you know people in other parts of the county, get them to contact them as well. They tend to respond more if they hear from folks all over instead of just in one part of the county... They already think we're just spoiled rich people who think we should be treated better than everyone else, so if people in other parts express the same opinions, it will help validate ours... |
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WHE Member
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Thanks for the support, Macca. I will do exactly that -- tonight! |
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Cracker Jax Member 
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Sorry I'm late in welcoming you NWTeach, but I've been out of town. WELCOME to the Forum!!!!!
Thanks for explaining the Mission Possible proposition to us. I heard a little about it this past weekend but wasn't sure I had all the facts straight. I'll be sure to voice my opinion to our board of ed. It'd be nice if they'd take it out of Grier's salary... What an incentive that would be!
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S. Smith Moderator
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I'll be interested to see what is in the school system's budget this year, and what kinds of things Dr. Grier is recommending (which the board will likely just go along with). |
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dmauser Member
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I understand the concern from NW teacher. I have many questions about this proposal also. I fear it will pit teacher against teacher, but I think that most teachers in our area schools will stay put for many reasons. Not the least is parental support, lack of violent crimes, active community involvement. Several teachers have alread told me that they would never leave us for a few thousand dollars. The stress is bad enough on a daily basis, they don't need or want the additional stress of 'turning a school around'. That is the positive for our area. But don't forget that other areas need good quality teachers and those children are mostly innocent and want and deserve a good education. How do we get there? In a high poverty area, parents are working dead end jobs, weird hours etc. They aren't at home to support their children, help with homework, get kids in bed on time etc. I know that these are societies problems, but the children are in an endless cycle. I don't think the public school system can fix these problems by themselves but the problems exist and will not go away by themselves. I would love to here some thoughts on how to get good teachers to teach in high poverty,low performing areas. |
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Starcatchr Member 
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NWteach, thank you for bring info to us. How unfair to try to bribe teachers to leave one school to go to another. How many more tricks can we take? Yes.... all parents.....let the school board members know how you feel about this! |
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DToney Member 
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What gets me is the tales my daughter continues to tell me like the teachers that do not have classrooms at NWHS that have a "cart" they roll from empty classroom to empty classroom. They have to utilize teachers classes who are in their planning period. This is the craziest thing I've ever hear of!! I bet Grier and the school board members would not want to teach in this situation! They keep putting off upgrading the schools because they do not want to up our taxes... but there needs to be some serious money spent to upgrade our school buildings NOW. The rubber has met the road and our kids and our teachers are suffering for it. I'm sure every teacher's dream is far from having a mobile classroom whether it be a trailer or a cart...... how can we attract good teachers like this? |
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dmauser Member
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Interesting point. The new Northern is being built with less classrooms, but teacher work spaces located on each hall. No teacher will "own" a room, they will move around just like college professors. This will utilize all rooms. Did you know in the typical HS 25% of class rooms are not utilized during each period. Net result is that you need more space which equals more money. Now I know that might not be the case at NW since we are so overcrowded, but we have to start rethinking the use of space since it cost so much to build new schools. Teachers are also going to have to rethink their spaces. |
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DToney Member
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Especially since they are trained to "decorate" in a theme that is consistent with the curriculum... which is not done in college by any means... but seems helpful in the lower grades, especially in elementary & middle schools. In NWHS any space would be helpful... these kids are shoulder to shoulder in the halls... I'm surprised there are not more fights... but I guess that is indicative of the kids in attendance at NW. They seem to be a great bunch! |
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S. Smith Moderator
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dmauser wrote: Interesting point. The new Northern is being built with less classrooms, but teacher work spaces located on each hall. No teacher will "own" a room, they will move around just like college professors. This will utilize all rooms. Did you know in the typical HS 25% of class rooms are not utilized during each period. Net result is that you need more space which equals more money. Now I know that might not be the case at NW since we are so overcrowded, but we have to start rethinking the use of space since it cost so much to build new schools. Teachers are also going to have to rethink their spaces. This really makes a lot of sense to me, especially in a county that can't catch up on the construction needs they ignored for 20+ years. But I do hate it, especially for teachers in middle school and below. Sometimes teachers really do need to "decorate" their classrooms with curriculum-related materials. Since most people are visual learners (myself included), it really does help to see something if you're trying to learn it. |
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dmauser Member
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Sandra, I think there will still be decorations, but more grade level than subject specific-- or at HS level, all labs would be science.. the teachers willnot have their stuff in any one room, they will have a work area/files etc in the workroom. Can you imagine how much over budget Northern would be if every subject had its own room being used for only 4 class periods. I have not heard that this will be done at the middle school (I don't think it will, I think each teacher will have their own room) It would make sense to turn one room one each hall at NW into a work room and then use the vacant rooms during planning time for other classes. Seems like a fairly simple procedure, taking more adjustment in attitudes from teachers than money. |
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S. Smith Moderator
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Thanks for clarifying, Debora. If they made the rooms grade or even subject specific, that would be a great way to use space, although I agree it would take some adjustment from the teachers. If you had all chemistry classes in one room (even if they're not taught by the same teacher), you could post the periodic table and it would be applicable for everybody in the same room. |
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macca Member
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Not exactly sure where to post this, but here goes: GCS to Hold Community Forum Regarding Student Resource Officers The Forum is Scheduled for Tuesday, August 22 at 7 p.m Contact: Haley Henderson (336) 370-3200 Created: 8/16/2006 10:09:58 AM In an effort to increase the effectiveness of the Student Resource Officer program, Guilford County Schools is holding a community forum on Tuesday, August 22 at 7 p.m. in the auditorium of Smith High School. The GCS Board of Education, local law enforcement, school representatives and parents are all invited to attend. This is from the GCS web site.... Just posted last Wednesday for a meeting that will be held this Tuesday? During the week school starts? Do we need to be concerned that some changes are coming down?  ♥♥♥ |
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ff12 Member 
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As mater would say "thats funny right there i don't care who are" |
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macca Member
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What??? I'm sorry, but I have no idea what that means....♥♥♥ |
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dmauser Member
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SRO's at the HS are paid for by the state so there is really no problem there. The controversary started (really continued) when the sheriff's dept issues tazers. Several of the school board members are concerned about safety with these guns and the real issue is that Africian Americans are disportionatly expelled, in trouble, etc than their white counterparts. Many in the AA community fear that their children will be unduly involved/punished/etc. I personally don't think that the tazer is the problem. If you have a responsible involved SRO there will be no prejudiced. The problem, if one exists is a personal problem not a tool problem. I believe the middle school will be the one under discussion more than the HS. |
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DToney Member
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OVERCROWDED.... OVERCROWDED...OVERCROWDED.... OVERCROWDED... WHAT IS THE DEAL??  |
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DToney Member
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School Board comments e-mail address: gcscomments@gcsnc.com |
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DToney Member
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being relatively new to this area, I guess I'm confused... maybe because I do not know the history behind the school board or whatever... please help me understand....... we have 3 middle schools that had structure problems... due to a contractor problem (?) why does the school board sink another $9mm into this rather than making the contractor ante up on his responsibilities? Aren't these buildings relatively new? As bad as NWHS needs a new building so we can rid ourselves of the "trailer park" they go & blow all kinds of money! Now I hear that Grier won't even go to the commission meetings nor attempt to explain why we need even MORE MONEY ...... none of which will be spent on OUR problem!! What is the deal??????????? has anyone heard the school board has requested yet another bond? $$816MM!!! I'd have to request an audit of the funds they've already spent before I'd let them earmark $65mm for a new southwest high.... c'mon that has to be a big elaborate school for that much money! Last edited on Sep 29th, 2006 01:59 am by DToney |
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macca Member
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DT -- Re: the middle school issues: Much as we all hate to see the BOE spend more $$ on these schools, I don't think they had much choice.... The work had to be done ASAP in order to assure the safety of the students and staff. I'm sure there will be legal action, but it may take years to determine who is ultimately liable... Re: a new bond: While it is hard to even begin to think about supporting a new bond (and giving the BOE power to oversee it), especially given all the problems with this one (rising costs forced the removal of some projects, funds diverted from one project to another, these problems with construction, etc) I don't see how anyone could deny we need more schools.... It's going to be a tough decision and a tough sell.... |
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DToney Member
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while I'm all for spending money on educating our children & realize the dire need for better buildings... there should be better oversight by this tyrant & his posse!  diverting funds is a no-no in business... & I saw where this happened recently to the NW... funds earmarked for us going elsewhere.... sure wish I knew what to do to stop the madness! |
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dmauser Member
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Speed was of the essence, but I think you will see either negotiatons to recoup some of the money or lawsuits, but remember these schools all passed inspections. I have asked the board how this happened. As a lay person I don't fully understand construction, but it is easy to see there was a huge problem and no one was paying attention. ON the $816 M list-- that was a needs list. The board will address that, fight over what is needed, whittle it down; then they have to have the County Commissioners approval before it goes on to voting. I told several of the board that if Summerfield and NWMS were not on this bond, I would not only NOT support the bond, but would actively campaign against it. If they add a HS in downtown High Point, I will campaign against (there are plenty of seat there)-- DToney most of the decisions are made for political reasons not for the best of the children or where the need is greatest. |
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mstone Member
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DToney wrote: diverting funds is a no-no in business... & I saw where this happened recently to the NW... funds earmarked for us going elsewhere.... sure wish I knew what to do to stop the madness! You're absolutley right - diverting funds in private business is a no-no. It happened with Oak Ridge Elementary, NWHS, and Guilford Middle, just to name a few. It's amazing how the Supt and BOE will plead and promise voters anything to get bond funding, then move those funds to projects not approved by the voters. This simply should not happen. Here's how to stop the maddness... we have got to elect BOE members that are going to fight forwhat is the right thing to do. The right thing is typically politically incorrect or unpopular with the vocal few that drive funding decisions, taking from our schools and giving to other areas of the county. We need a fighter representing our schools who is not afraid of a little controversy. |
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DToney Member
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mstone wrote: there is power in numbers too..... |
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mstone Member
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Absolutely right. The last several elections to the BOE were decided by a few hundred people. That's sad to think about. I'm not sure how many registered voters there are in each district, but to think that a fraction of a percent chose the current crop of BOE members is downright depressing. If parents and concerned citizens band together, the current state of our schools can be greatly improved by the simple act of voting.... and it won't take all that many voters either. |
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DToney Member
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I've got my voters registration & intend to use it! I cannot tolerate this wasteul spending & moving funds that are earmarked for one thing to another! As bad as we need a new school building & they go and do some mess like they've done... and now I hear they want to build yet another school in HP!!! |
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macca Member
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The surprising thing is that of the vacant seats this time, only one has more than one candidate. The only one we can vote in is the At-Large seat of Nancy Routh, who has no opposition. I think she does a good job.♥♥♥ |
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mstone Member
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Yep. It always amazes me that any elected official can run unopposed, but when you look at the condition of the school system, you'd think that there would be candidates climbing out of the wood work to run against the current crop of BOE members. Nancy does a very good job. In fact, except for Anita Sharpe, she's probably the sharpest and most knowledgeable of all members. |
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Starcatchr Member
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There was an announcement on the news this morning that Stokesdale Elementary will no longer acknowledge holidays. They will celebrate autumn and other seasons instead. I'm curious about how this decision was reached and why Stokesdale is the only GC school with the restriction. Celebrations of any one religion have been minimized for several years. Could diversity in beliefs be honored by including differences instead of putting an end to all celebrations? Does anyone know more about this and how it came about? Have parents complained? Has the A.C.L.U. stepped in? Have students been ostracized because of religion? Is this the pricipal's decision? Somehow the joy of autumn doesn't compare in a child's mind with the joy of a halloween cupcake. I'm just wondering if there's a different take on this. |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member 
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I find it hard to believe that Stokesdale IS the only school with this policy. For years, of course, we've called the celebrations by generic names ("Fall," "holiday," "spring," etc). But some of the materials used still reflected Christian beliefs -- Christmas trees, angels, Easter eggs. As we have become a more diverse community, it was noted that some parents kept their children home when "fall" parties were held, with symbols such as witches, goblins, monsters that some feel celebrate evil or the devil. There are also some children whose parents send them to school but insist they leave the room during celebrations. How would you feel if there was a celebration but you couldn't take part in it? What if your child was told the story of baby Jesus and how the red of the candy cane symbolised his blood and the white his purity, but your religion doesn't teach that? We had some parents ask what the policy was, and how they could know what kinds of things such as this were being taught in the classroom, so they'd know how to address it with their children. We've also had parents come as individuals to our principal (and not only to our current one, I think) about this but in the past couple of years we've had parents ask it more. It was brought to our School-Based Leadership Team, discussed in faculty meetings, and then this week a letter was sent home from our principal. It does NOT ban parties, it just says that classrooms should not be decorated around these themes. She asked that adults be sensitive to the needs of all children and honor their diversity. She included a copy of the GCS curriculum that addresses holidays as a way of showing how these could be incorporated into celebrations. It's one thing to say we should be able to include ALL beliefs in our celebrations, but are we willing to do that? Isn't that just our way of trying to hang onto our traditions? We can carry on our traditions in our personal lives, we can invite folks to our homes for any kind of party we want to have. When our children go to school, they don't have a choice to attend or not. Some other religions don't have a major celebration in December, yet that is when we have our biggest. Are we really going to give others the focus that we give to Christianity? As PTA President, I have fielded a few calls from parents. Our Board met Monday night and our principal shared with us the letter she would be sending. After a little discussion, we passed a motion in support of her letter, which was sent to try to clarify what the policy is. After people consider what it means, they don't seem to have such an issue with it. It's hard letting go of traditions sometimes, but we can continue those in our homes and our places of worship. |
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dmauser Member
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I have to agree with much of what Vicki said, but I was shocked that any teacher would be teaching about baby Jesus and the colors of a candy cane. That would be totally inapporpriate, since there is suppose to be separation of church and state. Religion is a personal choice and should be taught in the home not at church. It is sad that the kids can't have an egg hunt at Easter time without turning it into a religious thing. Wonder what percentage of parents complained? I know at the middle school we try to be considerate of all major religious holidays. (not having meetings, extra projects etc) We do need to be more aware of all religions and learn from our differences, it is what our country was built on. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Starcatchr wrote: Somehow the joy of autumn doesn't compare in a child's mind with the joy of a halloween cupcake. I'm just wondering if there's a different take on this. There won't be ANY halloween cupcakes at our school either Starcatcher. In fact, there won't be any cupcakes at all. Seems that someone in the higher eschelons of education thinks they need to give us parents another lesson in parenting and they've adopted this "wellness" policy. We can't reward our kids with food anymore - Not for holidays and not for birthdays. No candy in prize boxes either. We can't bake anything in our home kitchens for the kids anymore. Any food taken in...that means tofu and rice cakes, has to be prepared in an industrial kitchen... I forgot how they worded it, but basically a kitchen that the health department gives a sanitation grade to. I know in the grand scheme of things a cupcake isn't a big deal but try and tell a Kindergartener that on their birthday. I think this policy stinks.
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dmauser Member
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I think the policy states that they want healthy snacks, so there should be a balance of sweets and healthy foods... nothing with over 200 calories per serving. I know you are correct about purchasing from an accredited kitchen (safety issues) but it can put a hardship on parents. You can bake 24 cupackes for about $5, that many cost two or three times that at the grocery store. You are correct about candy for rewards. Sounds harsh to me, but obesity is taking over our childrens health (this from a woman that is wayyy overweight) We all know that many times the heavier child is not eating correctly, nor exercising enough and unfortunately they are the child that wants 3 cupcakes not just one. |
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macca Member
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So, Crackah! What do "celebrations" look like at S'field Elementary? Have y'all already been thru these discussions about decorating and all? Our principal seems to be more of the authoritarian style, so it's not like there's been lots of discussion. We got a letter and then I heard about the news (I don't usually watch Ch 12 -- and thought I was going flying last night!) story.... Is Stokesdale the ONLY school that doesn't allow "themed" parties? I know what I've read about the schools serving more nutritious foods and all, but I don't think I've seen anything saying we can't send in cupcakes. (I do know we haven't been able to send in homemade goods for a while.) So, is it up to individual schools as to how they choose to handle stuff? ♥♥♥ |
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Starcatchr Member
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Sorry, Vicki, I didn't mean to ruffle feathers this morning. I failed to think this through at the early morning hour. Diversity is great. Certainly it would be wrong to teach Christianity or any other religion in the schools. You are absolutely right about using symbols of religious holidays. I also understand that a parent here or there might think Halloween is evil and the Easter Bunny leads to ruin. What I am curious about is why is Stokesdale the only elementary school that has adopted this policy?(according to the morning news) Also, I'm wondering if there seems to be a more diverse student body at Stokesdale than at other schools in the county. Maybe someone else with a child in that school could answer. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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dmauser wrote: I think the policy states that they want healthy snacks, so there should be a balance of sweets and healthy foods... nothing with over 200 calories per serving. I know you are correct about purchasing from an accredited kitchen (safety issues) but it can put a hardship on parents. You can bake 24 cupackes for about $5, that many cost two or three times that at the grocery store. You are correct about candy for rewards. Sounds harsh to me, but obesity is taking over our childrens health (this from a woman that is wayyy overweight) I know the reasoning behind implementing the program dmauser, but is it really the school system's job to tell me what I can and can not feed my child? I'd give them the prize box if they'd let me serve cupcakes on birthdays. As for obese children, how about lightening the load on the teachers so that they don't have to assign as much homework (which will in turn, literally lighten the load on the kids) and the kids will have an opportunity to go out and play (exercise) before 10 pm? My crystal ball's showin' a bunch of skinny adults running around with back problems. Seems to me that the school system is creeping more and more into my household and I don't like it one bit. For instance, before every one of these big tests (EOG's etc) I recieve a sheet of paper that reminds me to put my kid to bed early and to feed my kid breakfast. Like I need to be reminded to feed my kid breakfast??? I know there are sorry parents who don't feed their kids. That's supposed to be why they have free/reduced meals and they started serving breakfast at school. The paper used to print these "reminders" for the entire school system could buy kleenex or glue sticks for an entire school and lessen the load on supplies that parents have to buy throughout the year. AND.... while I'm thinking of it, what about those 3 part forms that come home... the BEHAVIOR contract. The teacher signs, the kids sign and the parent signs...and everyone keeps their copy. How much do those things cost to print for the entire school system??? That's just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You could probably buy a teacher's assistant for the price of those contracts.... well, almost. Sorry.... I sort of went off on a tangent. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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macca wrote: So, Crackah! What do "celebrations" look like at S'field Elementary? Have y'all already been thru these discussions about decorating and all? Macca, we've always called them "holiday parties" though I think terms like "Fall" parties and "Winter" parties were preferred. I don't know the official policy at the schools here but for the most part it's been up to the teacher and the students. We had a class last year with a little fella who was a Jehovah's Witness and wasn't allowed to celebrate any birthdays or holidays. Most of the moms knew that, so if we had a birthday celebration, we'd bring him a regular snack and he seemed to be fine with it. I always felt sorry for him though. For Halloween we did the basic pumpkin w/ no face and the snowman for Christmas. That seemed to take care of it for all the students in that class anyway. I'll let you know if another ruling comes down this year. |
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dmauser Member
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I understand your thought process, and of course you can feed your kids anything that you see fit to, and we are lucky to have a close community where we feel safe with allowing our kids to eat 'home made' items, but I know of several cases where, drugs, laxatives, pot etc have been put into homemade goodies and have been taken to schools (not here in GC, but here in USA) -- I think that is the true reason, so nothing can be 'tampered with'-- my suggestion, bring celery, carrots, apples and cupcakes (all from the store) then after party... throw away celery carrots apples and empy cupcake liners! It's not what we feed our kids, but what we feed the kids of other people |
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RudeDog Member
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It seems to me that children already have plenty of opportunities outside of school to celebrate these holidays. It offends me that the people I know who seem most upset about this do not attend church regularly. If you want your children celebrating these religious holidays, take them to church. If you want your children to have a party with their friends, invite them to your home. Personally, as poor a job as our government schools have demonstrated they do of teaching academic subjects (in general, not necessarily Stokesdale in particular), I'm surprised all these parents are trusting enough of government schools to teach religion, culture, traditions, and character. I'd rather not let the government anywhere near my religion. Religion, culture, traditions, and character should be taught at home and/or at church, and our children's behavior at school should be a reflection of this teaching. Somehow we as a society have forgotten that, and now we rely on the schools to do it. It's a sad state of affairs that the closest many children get to celebrating these holidays is a watered-down "fun" day at school some time around the actual holiday. But we have no one to blame but ourselves. |
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DToney Member
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nowadays... schools not only try to tell us what we can FEED our kids but they also (as pointed out by crackah) "remind" us to put our kids to bed... like Crackah.. mine had a good nights sleep because they had a BEDTIME... and they had breakfast before leaving for school.... as part of our ROUTINE. Due to the bad parenting skills of some parents, schools must remind EVERYONE because of the stupidity of those with little or no parenting skills so the TEST SCORES don't suffer. I hate standardized tests allbeit a necessary evil to measure progress of our schools... & although homework is necessary to some extent it does get out of control... sometimes it is a "catch all" for assignments not covered in class rather than the reinforcement tool that it should be. 3rd grade seems to be THE WORST for overbearing assignments. Also, if our schools were funded as they should be, we would not have to purchase "supplies" for the entire classroom.... nor would the teachers be forced to purchased these supplies out of their own money! If our schools were run like a good private business... with oversight to boot... we could eliminate waste (like these stupid "contracts") and be able to make better use of the limited funding we DO receive. I'm sorry for my tangent too... but this is one of my soapbox issues... along with the fact that our kids have to attend school in mobile home parks......... which is a HOT topic for me... If we can fund parks, "history" museums & out of the office school board meetings, then we should have our children decent schools that are safe & not in moblie home villiages!!! With all of the $300 - million dollar homes in the NW territory... why can't we afford to do away with these facilities & make them any better?? That kinda cramps my craw!!!!!! especially when I read about funds being diverted for a Legal Issue somewhere... and we will probably NEVER see this money again. |
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dmauser Member
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As someone said earlier, voting for change is great, but you have to voice your opinions to the school board, not just through this sorce. I don't know most of the posters here (maybe I do, but not with their sign in names). I would ask, with all due respect.. do you write letters of complaint to the school board and Dr Grier? Do you attend the BOE meetings and speak of your concerns? How will they know your opinion if you don't? We HAVE to make our opinions, thoughts, complaints and occasionally compliments known loud and clear! The only real power we have is when many, many of us get up and get in their faces. One or two people can't make the changes we need. Darlene Garrett is very responsive to emails and I think she has a great feel for our community, however she is just one vote out of 11. The Board of Education takes an oath to do the right thing for all the children on the county, and we must let them know that our children are part of the "all" in that equation. Okay... off my soap box, I have to watch the State/Fla State game and can't concentrate on both! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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Just noticed in the new NWO that Northern Middle will NOT be opening as scheduled. Surprise Surprise. |
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DToney Member
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I have sent E-mails to each of the school board members including grier... to no avail. I did not get the first reply! At least they heard my opionion - for what it was worth.... |
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dmauser Member
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That is a real hotbed of controversy. Try writing about something specific that you think needs addressing.. say the stuff at Stokesdale about holidays. I was told the teachers were told not to wear red/green. This is just hearsay, so I don't really know... or pick the money being transferred to Dudley without any prior/public disclosure or discussion.. .you get the idea! |
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DToney Member
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my topic was school buildings... in particular our "trailer park" at NWHS & how badly overcrowded we are... my "soapbox" |
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dmauser Member
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DToney, sorry I misread your line about school board and Terry Grier.. I thought you said you wrote TO the school board ABOUT Terry Grier... my mistake |
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DToney Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: Looks like GCS needs to hire a new Engineer! 3 with structure problems & always behind on schedule.... |
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melinnc Member
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I agree with Cracker. I believe that kids should be able to come home from school and play outside like in the "old days," instead of spending hours doing homework. Unfortunately that hasn't been my three daughters' reality since moving to this area four years ago. I realize many kids spend their free time after school in front of the T.V., playing video games, etc., but banning candy as rewards in the classroom seems a bit ridiculous to me. Two of my daughters spent four school years at Stokesdale Elementary. Overall, it was a wonderful elementary school experience for them. One of the main reasons was the "country school" feel of Stokesdale. It was a school where holidays were celebrated and children made holiday-inspired crafts, sang songs, etc. In the hallways you could always see students' artwork depicting other countries' and cultures' beliefs and customs, as well as the "traditional" which is now deemed to be offensive to some. I find the news of the principal's new "policy" very sad. My daughters are now at the middle school and did not participate in the recent fundraiser. Yesterday, those who sold a minimum number of items were allowed to join the "mega party." My children had to attend their regular elective classes during the "party." They accepted this, as they understood the reasons they were not allowed to participate in the fundraiser. I don't believe they are permanently scarred as a result. Just weighing in on these topics...  |
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dmauser Member
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As president of the PTSA at the middle school I would like to know how you would suggest that we raise money for the running of the PTSA. I realize that you didn't complain about the magazine sale, but you obviously choose not to participate. I am not being tacky, and not trying to give you a hard time.I realize that many do not participate in fundraising, but it is one of those necessary evils to assist with our schools needs and to run the programs that I feel benefit our children. For instance to give the students their planners and one for each teacher it costs almost $6000.00 Planners seem essential in keeping our students organzied, and as far as I know the PTSA has provided those for many years. Do you think this is beneficial or something we should quit doing? We fund cultrual arts, Red Ribbon Week, Kids Voting, Hospitality, Beautification, newsletter, etc and the largest expense is mini-grants. We help our neediest kids with supplies and needed books. Last year we provided over 500 books, meal worms, purchased the new picnic tables, digital cameras, instruments for chorus etc. I really am interested in hearing if you think these are worth the hassle of fundraising- do they benefit our children and school? If you feel like they are worthwhile how do we either communicate the effectiveness of the programs or get more people to participate in fundraising or donating to the PTSA? I am always open to new ideas and two way communication that will help our children. In a perfect world the county,state, federal governments would do all this.. |
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DToney Member
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at our previous school... the use of the planners was very different. Here, students are not utilizing them because they are not used in the way they were there. When a student needed a bathroom break, it was noted in the planner. When a student was absent, the parent note was in the planner & each teacher signed off on it. When there was a homework assignment, quiz or test, it was noted in the planner & the students were told to put their grade beside it. That way when they were curious about their average, it was a matter of simple math. Also, if a test grade was "lost" by the teacher, the teacher's initials made it more "official" to look back at the planner & determine what the missing grade was. They also were customized to include the school rules & policies & the academic calendar for the year. Because of the planners being under utilized, I do not see the need in going through great pains to provide them. As for fund raisers in general, there were many in which I did not let my children participate. I know that sounds harsh, but the reality is, I did not want my child to be trained in the art of salesmanship. There are other ways in which to raise funds. Corporate sponsorship has proven to be a more lucrative source than wrapping paper (which in all reality is not a good deal for the purchaser when you can get $1 rolls at the dollar tree!) or other items. Some fund raisers are good deals. Everyone likes the chocolates & the magazines. But... be honest.... many of these items are overpriced and not of good value. There is also a safety issue going door-to-door as well as issues with employers when parents bring these catalogs to work. I realize that the job of upkeeping our "free public schools" should come from our government that entitles our children to such. The reality is that governments, especially Guilford County, have other priorities.... some of which really tick me off! We as parents, and community memebers should see to it that our government officials prioritize education as a means of bettering our communities and providing us with better future leaders. That is not going to happen overnight. Guilford County appears to be stuck in a rut with the funding of our school system. It appears to be 20 years behind in funding school buildings. The predictament we are in, it will take mega-bucks to get us where we need to be & I do not see our leaders as being willing to go there. They'd rather dump more money into the pre-college programs when they should be worried about getting back to basics first.... what good are college programs in high school if some children cannot pass the high school exit exam? Enough of my soap box for now.... this is one of my hot topics... |
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Cracker Jax Member
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melinnc wrote: I agree with Cracker. Welcome to the forum Melinnc!!!!!! I like you already!!!! You make some very good points about the fundraisers (which I will be brave enough to say that I despise Since we've been discussing exclusion from parties on the Stokesdale Party forum, I can't think of anything that makes a child feel more excluded than missing a school mega party and KNOWING that they are missing it because their parents didn't want to sell wrapping paper. Just breaks my heart. I don't know the answer. Maybe folks are just tired of selling the same old things.... I don't even know what's available as a fundraiser that you can get enough of a percentage of the sales to compete with wrapping paper and magazines though. BTW.... I always loved the "ART BY ME" fundraisers in the lower schools. I know Stokesdale did it recently but SF and Laughlin quit doing it years ago. Bring it back!!!!! |
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dmauser Member
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Interesting about the planners-- I will pass on those uses! The rules and basic calendar (important dates) are in the planner. I know because I had to type them. Also, the students are suppose to get them signed to go out of the classroom, however many teachers are not good at that. All assignments are suppose to be put in the planner. Putting the grades in is interesting. Seems like it could be more time consuming for teachers, but I can see the benefit to parents. Corporate sponsorship is hard to get at our school. The large businesses like to support our highly impacted schools and not those in our area. Thanks for the additional thoughts! All good ones! |
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dmauser Member
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Art by Me is always a big hit, but as a fundraiser it is only medicore. Summerfield had a history of doing it every other year. Many art teachers run this for art supplies, why dont' you ask the new art teacher if she is interested in doing that. |
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Cracker Jax Member
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I can certainly imagine that the Art By Me wouldn't bring in the funds that the other fundraisers do, but I think folks would rather buy stuff than sell it. Again, I don't know what fundraisers are available out there, but I loved buying the Art by Me stuff and I'll always buy spiritwear and such, so maybe several lower grossing projects in addition to the larger ones might help. I don't know. I'll definitely ask the Art Teacher. One of my kids never did get to do it. My fridge is full of the art magnets from my Stokesdale and Oak Ridge friends though!!! |
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DToney Member
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I realize that Bi-Lo is kinda "dead and gone" but what about Lowe's Foods or some of the other grocery stores that offer "points" ? Would they be willing to do like Bi-Lo did & attribute points to the school? Just a thought....... |
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melinnc Member
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Cracker Jax wrote: I can't think of anything that makes a child feel more excluded than missing a school mega party and KNOWING that they are missing it because their parents didn't want to sell wrapping paper. Just breaks my heart. My husband and I decided not to allow our daughters to participate in this particular fundraising event due to a variety of factors. A main one being the fact that some kids who don't sell as many as others might feel badly about themselves, as they don't get rewarded with the party, Hummer limo ride, etc. Our girls understood our decision, as they know we've certainly sold our share of magazine subscriptions, gift wrap, etc., over the course of the 12 years we have had children in public school. Unfortunately, I don't have answers as regards what other options public schools have to raise needed funds. One fundraiser that seemed to work well at our old school was silent auction. On another subject, I want to stress how much I appreciate the PTA/PTSA officers/chairpersons and all they do for our students. I certainly mean no disrespect to these volunteers, as I've been involved in these organizations for many years. I only made the point about my kids being "excluded" from the party to make a comparison to those children who are "excluded" from holiday school parties. |
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Steve Adkins Member 
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Cracker Jax wrote: Maybe folks are just tired of selling the same old things.... I don't even know what's available as a fundraiser that you can get enough of a percentage of the sales to compete with wrapping paper and magazines though. Question - back when my youngest was in grade school (yeah, the same youngest that is now a freshman at GC), and I was Pres of the Home & School Board (fancy name for PTA), we sold "Market Days" frozen food. Made a bundle of money. It was good quality food, same as a Schwanns frozen food, we did it once a month, had to be well organized at it, but it kept the kids from having to sell stuff. http://www.marketday.com/ Last edited on Oct 15th, 2006 01:01 am by Steve Adkins |
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macca Member
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I think you can get around the whole selling stuff dilemma by just making a donation to PTA/PTSA. And I think they try to reward the child at the corresponding level.... 100% profit for PTA/PTSA, no hassle for the parents, kid feels good -- AND it's tax deductible!! ♥♥♥ |
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Cracker Jax Member
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melinnc wrote: Cracker Jax wrote:I can't think of anything that makes a child feel more excluded than missing a school mega party and KNOWING that they are missing it because their parents didn't want to sell wrapping paper. Just breaks my heart. melinnc, I did NOT mean to sound like I was passing judgement on your decision not to sell. I think a middle or high schooler is definitely old enough to understand the reasons for these types of decisions. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a much younger child. Sorry! |
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Cracker Jax Member
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macca wrote: I think you can get around the whole selling stuff dilemma by just making a donation to PTA/PTSA. And I think they try to reward the child at the corresponding level.... 100% profit for PTA/PTSA, no hassle for the parents, kid feels good -- AND it's tax deductible!! ♥♥♥ Yep ... I think the donation our school suggested (in order to gain admittance to the mega party) was $75.00. That's a lot of Texa$ for little ol' me!!! I'd rather sell wrapping paper. |
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macca Member
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$75.00!!! Wow! You could throw a pretty good party yourself and invite a few close friends..... But then, it IS going for a good cause! ♥♥♥ |
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Cracker Jax Member
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You are absolutely correct macca. It is a good cause. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Didn't you guys like my idea? |
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macca Member
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ACtually, Steve..... That sounds like a lot of work... And you have to have freezer space.... and what if folks don't pick up their stuff?? How much profit did you make? How many people were involved? What percentage of families participated? Were these prepackaged meals? |
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Steve Adkins Member
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Good Questions Macca, thanks for asking Profit - it was many years ago, can't remember percentage, but it was significant, ie 10%. We made enough in two years to completely replace all books in the library, they weren't cheap. Freezer - not needed. The truck delivered the stuff at 6pm, all pickups were done by 8:00 pm.....whoosh. Prepackaged - yes, frozen, all guaranteed, and I don't remember a bad thing in the bunch. Percentage of Participants - cannot answer, but I remember there being many regulars. Getting stuck for payment - Yes, it can happen, but didn't much. The quality was good, these were parents, grandparents of students, they were committed. How many people? - like everything, there is a core group who makes it happen. It takes a chairperson, a treasurer, an ass't treasurer (to keep their eye on the treasurer), all to fuss with getting orders in & submitted. Market days does a great job of documenting the orders & saving alot of paperwork, ie Steve Adkins has 12 items total $129.45 type thing. On pickup night, you need a small army for 2 hours to help unload the truck, organize the tables, arrange the frozen goods, then as the supplies start dwindling, to consolidate the tables, & start cleaning up. Was a good bonding time for the husbands. We'd all usually go out and get coffee afterward. Also got to know our teacher reps very well, great people. The positive part was it was a consistent & predictable cash flow. Kept the kids out of it. Thanksgiving & Christmas MD ran specials, and we made a bundle. Everyone needs food. |
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dmauser Member
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I think your idea has merit, but trust me someone will not come get the stuff and then you will have to find a freezer, make calls, distribute etc. How do I know this? Because we have had to do that with cookie dough(frozen), wrapping paper etc. Getting fathers involved... please, of please tell me how!? I am all ears.. truly I want to know. At the middle school, it is getting harder and harder to get volunteers, many moms have gone back to work when their kids get this age.. fathers are almost non existance unless it is sports. Magazines get us 40%profit-Wrapping paper gets 50% plus all the gifts/parties etc. Kernodle is doing a donation only fundraiser-- if it works, I will be taking notes! General Greene does a walk-a thon, with coporate sponsors to pay for t-shirts; both great ideas. |
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Steve Adkins Member
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What works for one may not necessarily work for another. I only brought it up because we had such success with it. And it was at the elementary school level, not the middle school level. |
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Kris McNeill Member
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Don't get me wrong with what I'm about to say as I have been on PTA/PTSA Boards at elementary, middle and high schools over the past 15 years and I know that the funds are desparately needed but...... Why are PTAs so involved in raising funds when there is nothing in the mission or purpose statements of the national PTA to support fundraising activities? from http://www.pta.org: The Mission of the Parent Teacher Association
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Steve Adkins Member
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Good Comments Kris It seems the PTA's focus over time has evolved from those items you mention above, to filling in the financial hole created by poorly managed budgets. Notice I did not say strapped budgets. When school repairs go from $1.7M to $7M, that isn't strapped, that's poor management. And as the school board removes funding in Titan Trucks, the PTA's are trying to fill back in with wheelbarrows. Sad. |
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DToney Member
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WOW SMS! well said! I cannot imagine how an independent business could run the way our schools are being run... |
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Kris McNeill Member
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Steve Adkins wrote: And as the school board removes funding in Titan Trucks, the PTA's are trying to fill back in with wheelbarrows. Sad. Thanks Steve. This is exactly why I brought this issue up. Sometimes I think we may be hurting ourselves more by picking up the slack of the school system. What if PTAs stopped trying to raise funds? Would it force the school system to fund the needs and programs PTAs have been covering? And what if PTAs were to put more time and energy into lobbying the school board (#1 on the PTA mission statement)? Could they affect change in how the school board manages and distributes funds? I am wondering what happens at schools without strong PTAs as we have here in the northwest area. Do they go without or does the school system just funnel more money their way? |
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mstone Member
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Wow, what an excellent point. It's easy to play fast and loose with the finances when there's more than one revenue stream to fish from. What if the school board only have the tax based funds to work with. Wouldn't they would have to become better financial stewards? Although they claim to be on top of this type of issue, the reality is that they are spending good money on bad programs and ideas. |
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dmauser Member
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Kris and Steve, all good points, and I know that I spend hours and hours lobbying and volunteering to make education better for our kids, but as long as we live in an area that has a)low poverty and b) high scores we will not be getting anything other than the bare basics for our school. For instance at our middle school, we were predicted to lose 150 kids to Northern Middle (we did) however we grew by 70 kids just with regular growth. Do you think we got more money for those 70? Not yet, but I am still trying. I have asked many times for mass emails to be sent to the board of ed., state senators etc and that ticks them off so now I work quieter and hopefully smarter. I could write pages on this, and I know that the PTA should be more political, and I try but truthfully most parents only care about their school and their kids, not the education of the nation and the National PTA focus on the whole, of which we are a small part. With that in mind I have decided to focus my energy on our area and try to help our schools as much as possible-- and unfortuantely that usually means enhancement of our education and educational supplies (i.e. money) |
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Kris McNeill Member
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Deborah, I know this is a "thinking outside of the box" kind of idea (changing the focus of local PTAs). It would require parents to get involved in other ways (lobbying, attending school board meetings,etc) instead of just by financial support. It would be a radical change of thinking and I don't know that it would even work but it's something to think about... Do you think that our low poverty/high score/involved PTAs with ability to fund needs not being met by the school system is sort of a Catch 22 situation? I wonder what would happen if PTAs stopped raising funds and paying for the shortfalls of the school system? I know there are good folks like you who regularly attend school board meetings and lobby our elected officials. Thank you! I just wonder if an organized, consistent effort by even more parents would be more effective? |
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dmauser Member
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Kriss, Undoubtedly more involvement in the political venue would make a difference-however I have found that with the juggling that parents do with school, work, sports, music etc., going to the school board meetings are the last priority. It is easy to email and they rarely do that. I would love to brainstorm and figure out how to get people to see the importance but I haven't been successful doing that. As far as the PTA goes, we could quit raising money, but the only people that will hurt is our kids. It would take years for the county to notice and by then the kids would have done without for years. The true needs that we as parents can't help, overcrowding in the buildings, too many students per class, etc. So if we can take away the stress of not having products to teach with, the funds that the school has can be utilized in the best possible way. But with all of these problems, we are more fortunate than most. We have great teachers, fabulous parents, low drug problems, lower violence, positive learning environment. I see it as a vicious cycle and I don't know how to change it! |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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Debora/Kris, I agree with both of you.... It would be great if we could figure out how to convince parents to be more involved on an ongoing basis. Unfortunately, we've seen folks turn out for specific causes (more teacher assistants, for example) but then they aren't visible again until the next big issue. I'm sure that if we could figure out how to get people to be more involved on an ongoing basis, we could all be rich (or at least famous) by teaching other PTAs throughout the country how to do it! The reality is that, until there is an issue that personally touches them, most parents are content to let someone else monitor what is going on by attending meetings or even watching them on TV or reading about them. This is also true in the local schools. How much attention to most parents even pay to who is on the PTA Board, or what the Board is responsible for, when they meet, etc until something happens that they don't like? Perhaps PTAs in the Northwest area could hold some kind of summit about the direction PTAs SHOULD be going in? To focus on what the true mission and purpose of PTA is? I'm sure we could get support from some folks within the County Council of PTAs and NCPTA (Mildred Poole quickly comes to mind) because they are always reminding leaders that PTA is NOT supposed to be about raising money. Our main goal is advocacy, but how many of us have struggled through the years to even get someone to agree to chair an ADVOCACY committee? And, as Debora said, if we don't raise the money, then our kids suffer. There would be some parents who would contribute for their child's class, but that doesn't benefit the entire school, as concerted efforts by our PTAs do. |
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Kris McNeill Member
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Debora, I'm sorry I misspelled your name up there!! I know you and Vicki both speak the truth from experience! It would be almost impossible to stop PTA fundraising and cause student programs to suffer because of it. I just wish that the school system could somehow be held responsible for funding the wonderful programs and initiatives that PTAs are funding now. Vicki, a PTA "summit" is a really great idea! I know you have advocated before for a concerted effort by the northwest area in lobbying the school board.... I will have to admit that I really just brought this up as "food for thought". Like I said, it's all a radical idea. My youngest child graduates this year and I find myself thinking differently about the school system, PTA,etc now that I soon won't have a "vested interest" in it all. (Except that I do hope I'll have grandchildren in northwest area schools one day!) I have always supported the school bond referendums but I don't think I will be supporting another one after watching years of mismanagement go on. |
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Vicki White-Lawrence Member
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Kris, I'm glad you have brought up these issues recently. We need to look at what we are doing and why every now and then. If no one challenges the status quo, nothing changes. You've raised some valid points and generated some good thoughts and conversation. Thanks! I do think a summit would be a great idea and hope we can work toward making that happen. Even if we only get a few folks to show up at first, that would be a start. Keep those "radical ideas" coming, Kris! Some folks are the ones who generate the ideas, and others are the ones who do the work to make it happen. |
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DToney Member
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one thing that Lex, SC school district 5 did was break away from the "PTA" due to the cost involved with the affiliation. They had a "PTSO" (aka parent, teacher, student organization) key word "organization".... they can be more profitable doing the same things with less cost. I don't know what costs are involved... but that was the explaination we parents were given.... and they include the "student" (talk about radical ideas... & some work!) |
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macca Member
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Middle and high schools here also include students.... hence the name PTSA at those levels. The cost to belong to NCPTA and National is around $3 per member, I think, and is covered by the membership dues. Must point out that folks who are more knowledgeable on this topic are likely not available tonight, since they are chaperoning the homecoming dance for NWHS -- a project sponsored by the PTSA. |
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DToney Member
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it was great of those in charge of our homecoming dance to have the good sense to move the dance... I bet it will be BUSY anywhere near the coliseum tonight.... & a much older crowd than teens........ sure wish the school board had that forethought... reckon we can get the PTA to counsel the board? Last edited on Oct 22nd, 2006 12:58 am by DToney |
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dmauser Member
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I hope the homecoming is safe and fun for the kids. $2.75 of each membership goes to state and national organization. They do alot of lobbying (I get weekly updates on hot topics, anyone can sign up for those at pta.org) At NWMS we charge $5 for adults and $4 for kids. With any two memberships you get a free directory. We have sponsors that help defer that cost. PTO's can be a good thing, but most organizations benefit from the leadership of PTA, especially with financial advise. It is important that all funds are handled correctly with no chance of emblezement. You would be shocked at how easy something like stealing money could be if you had shady characters and most importantly no safeguards, like audits etc. I think that is one important benefit of joing PTA instead of having a PTO. Training is a great tool provided by county, state, national PTA. |
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