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TCat
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Posted: Apr 20th, 2007 03:48 am |
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I think this forum is the place to discuss what is on our minds that this incident has brought up and if people feel that easy access to guns is directly related, then it is relevant.
And I may have been mistaken in what I read but it appears that while he didn't get the guns a day before, he was able to get them:
"Cho purchased two handguns in February and March, and was subject to federal and state background checks both times. The checks turned up no problems, despite a judge's ruling in December 2005 that Cho "presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness."
Apparently the system that you have described as being in place is not good enough as, obviously, he was able to get the guns. And as so many other criminals are able to everyday. And I think the NRA has done a great job lobbying to keep access to guns fairly easy and types of guns that are not needed by the general public.
I don't like guns. I don't want any around me. And it has been shown that having them around increases the chance that someone in your house will get shot. You have stated that guns are kept for personal protection as a last line of defense. But most people are untrained in how to not panic in a stressful situation. If they have gun in the house they are not going to go through all of the other options first. They are going to grab the gun. And I don't think many people are "really" ready to kill someone or have thought it all the way through.
The quote was also distributed by the media not just noticed by me. I think it was insensitive and unthinking and, even if pulled out of a whole long press conference as a single statement, it didn't surprise me because that is pretty much the opinion I have of this president. I know the press asked the question but he didn't let the opportunity slip by to give the message the lobby pays him to give. I'm sure the families are comforted with his words. Last edited on Apr 20th, 2007 03:55 am by TCat
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mstone
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Posted: Apr 20th, 2007 05:10 am |
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TCat,
No offense intended in my post. If this is the place to discuss the Second Amendment - so be it. As I noted in an earlier post, there's a problem when someone like Cho can get a gun. I'm not opposed to gun laws that restricts access for legitimate reasons. I still cannot understand why he was able to purchase weapons after the judge's ruling. I can only assume it's because he wasn't charged with a crime, and the judge didn't put any sort of restrictions on his actions or behaviors. His criminal background check evidently came back clean. Unfortunately, this idiot was going to do what he did anyway.
I agree that the system wasn't good enough to keep guns from him. And yes, other criminals get guns as well. The issue is how do you protect a law abiding citizen's right to own firearms while stopping criminals from doing the same. Even the staunchest pro-gun individual would sign up for the program that can accomplish both. And yes, the NRA does a great job making sure that hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens are able to legally own firearms for their self protection and for the protection of their families.
I certainly understand that you don't like guns. There are lots of folks that don't. I personally don't like pit bulls, but some folks have them for protection. Yes, guns in a house increase the chances that someone may get shot - perhaps an intruder. Accidents happen, but by and large guns in a home are not ticking time bombs. You won't be suprised to hear that more innocent people are killed by drunk drivers than by guns. There are laws that are supposed to protect us from drunk drivers, yet idiots still drink and drive with disasterous results. Are we going to outlaw cars or alcohol? More children die in bicycle accidents and in drownings than gun related incidents. Should we outlaw bikes and fill all the swimming pools and lakes?
You are correct that EVERY gun owner should be REQUIRED to take a mandatory safety course before they own their first firearm. You'll never take the stress out of a home invasion or attempted robbery, but you can take the panic out. It's no different from a home fire drill. You plan and you practice - often. You hope and pray that the house doesn't catch on fire, but if it does - through all the stress - you go through with the plan. Same with gun safety. You're right, most people are not ready to kill another human being. I'm not. But presented with the choice between harm to my family or an intruder, I believe I can and will protect my family. I'm certain that you would do the same. It simply appears that we've chosen different methods on how to address such a situation.
I can appreciate your feelings on this issue. It seems that few people are on the fence on this subject. You either are or are not - there's very little "maybe" out there.
Of all the responses I've read, I think Aberystwyth probably has the most insightful thought of this. Bullying (especially for someone "different") can have long-lasting and tragic results. We talk about it at every PTA gathering, at school functions, and even the BOE has talked about it. DOING something about it is what's needed. I just have to wonder how this situation would have been different if Cho had been treated with some inclusion and compassion by his peers. How sad.
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Apr 20th, 2007 10:30 am |
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| I think the VA Tech massacre was the "Perfect Storm." Everything that is imperfect in our society came together on that day. Cho who it seems was tentively diagnosed as autistic as a child with a speech impediment was then tormented in school. His mental illness again diagnosed in college but there are no facilities or support for adults with mental illness. He then goes out and legally buys guns. He then shoots people. The fact I think is that our society can not or does not have an support for these types of people. The focus their whole being on this imagined issue and there is no way we "normal" people can be a 100% safe. Actually what I think these incidents do is really just take away more of our freedoms. We talk about it, look for scape goats and pass laws that law abiding people abide by. But the crazies are still out there.
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mstone
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Posted: Apr 20th, 2007 10:51 am |
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I couldn't agree more! There were probably a hundred different things that culminated in this violent act of rage. Who knows, if someone could have stepped in at some point and reached this guy on a personal level maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Apr 20th, 2007 11:40 am |
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| Who knows how many times this type of thing is stopped before it comes to gether.
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gotobeme
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Posted: Apr 21st, 2007 02:41 am |
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I would say as not much has been said about this subject; "bullying and tauntings". Why do we not face the truth in all of this. Most people who are disturbed as this individual was walk this earth everyday and do not commit such acts. They may hurt themselves but not others as much. This kind of action is mostly seen from people who are hurting so bad in the inside at the pleasure of others they strike out. Just my opinion.
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S. Smith
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Posted: Apr 21st, 2007 06:04 pm |
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Another scary aspect of this case to me is that there was nothing special about Va. Tech -- in other words, this could have happened anywhere. Regarding bullying, let's face it: kids can sometimes be downright cruel. I remember being teased as a kid for various reasons and it hurt, although luckily I was never the brunt of a lot of this kind of behavior.
I was impressed when NWMS had a program a couple of years ago and brought in a speaker who was an expert on bullying. I think it would be great if all school systems everywhere offered training to everybody from the teachers (from kindergarten through high school) to the cafeteria workers to the bus drivers on how to deal with this sort of situation when it arises and make it clear that bullying is not allowed.
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ff12
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Posted: Apr 22nd, 2007 02:54 am |
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Just about all of the mass shootings have occured in weapon free zones. This was brought out by Ted Neugent.
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macca
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Posted: Apr 22nd, 2007 03:05 am |
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ff12 wrote:
Just about all of the mass shootings have occured in weapon free zones. This was brought out by Ted Neugent.
Do they think that is because the shooter believes they'll be able to take out a lot of people quickly b/c no one else will be armed?
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Baseball Buddy
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Posted: Apr 22nd, 2007 01:23 pm |
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| Always remember, Guns don't kill, People do. People who own guns know how to store and handle guns safely. Weather or not they practice safety is the down fall. This massacre was a tragedy. It should have no bearing on the right to bear arms. Will It? Yes! Does it affect all good law abiding citizens? Yes! Criminals will get guns no matter what. He would have acquired a gun to do this eventually through other means. People need to realize that there are good and bad people. We tend to over analyze and think we can change the bad people to good. This person needed GOD in his life to change him not doctors. This sort of thing whether it be mental illness or just plain meanness can only be helped through GOD.
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macca
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Posted: Apr 22nd, 2007 01:36 pm |
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Baseball Buddy wrote:
Always remember, Guns don't kill, People do. People who own guns know how to store and handle guns safely. Weather or not they practice safety is the down fall. This massacre was a tragedy. It should have no bearing on the right to bear arms. Will It? Yes!
No it won't. Nothing ever does. JFK. RFK. MLK. Columbine. All of the other school killings. All of the other shootings committed by people who shouldn't have been able to get guns.... The NRA rallies the troops, throws money around and convinces law-abiding citizens that their rights are going to be trampled and so nothing ever changes.
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: Apr 22nd, 2007 02:18 pm |
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| I agree Macca. For one thing it is much harder to beat someone to dealth with a rock and certainly 32 people would not have died but nothing changes. I could and would never be able to kill some one with a gun. I do not feel I have the right to kill anyone for any reason. There is a much higher judge who will sort this all out in the end and in my humble opinion there are much worse things than being dead. Living with the knowledge I had killed another human being is one of those worse things.
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Jim Flynt
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Posted: Apr 22nd, 2007 02:55 pm |
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Edited by Poster.Last edited on Aug 5th, 2007 11:20 am by Jim Flynt
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ff12
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Posted: Apr 23rd, 2007 01:50 am |
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senseless destruction of human life, hmmmmm must be talking about dwi victims or drug related homicides and suicides, or airplane crashes or the real senseless destruction : ABORTION.
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Super Moderator
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Posted: Apr 23rd, 2007 04:03 am |
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ff12 wrote: senseless destruction of human life, hmmmmm must be talking about dwi victims or drug related homicides and suicides, or airplane crashes or the real senseless destruction : ABORTION.
Please stay on the topic of Virginia Tech Killings
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