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happycamper
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 12:02 pm |
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"Lacka" ...One quick follow up...
Do you feel you were intentionally left off? If so ,why? The land you mentioned close to the intersection, do you intend also to sell for commercial development?
I have never approached anyone with a petition drive before., nor have I went to anyones home to ask for there support or signature.
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 12:04 pm |
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You and your neighbors might consider drawing up another petition that asks the Town Council to pass a resolution to protect that side of the road from commercial development. It is not binding but has been used in the past to protect other places in Summerfield. The most notable is the resolution to protect part of 220 from commercial devleopment. I think considering the huge amount of residental development on that side it is a reasonable request at least for the time being. If it is something you think might work go talk to the Town planner or administrator about it.
The resolution just reminds folks to stop and think about why the resolution was passed. Of course if somebody came along and most all sold your houses then that is another story.
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Lacka
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 04:57 pm |
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happycamper wrote: "Lacka" ...One quick follow up...
Do you feel you were intentionally left off? If so ,why? The land you mentioned close to the intersection, do you intend also to sell for commercial development?
I have no idea why I awas left off the petition. I do not have an intention of selling my property, but I certainly would if offered enough money.
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happycamper
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 05:34 pm |
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"lacka" wrote:
I have no idea why I awas left off the petition. I do not have an intention of selling my property, but I certainly would if offered enough money.
"Lacka"
My neighbors and myself are as gulity as most for not being more involved in the town's planning. . Most folks at the meeting had never been to a meeting before, I would venture to say that this is true of 90% of the residents. I myself have only been to a few, once for our neighborhood., and a couple of times for friends over towards NW high school.. I guess I am, and most are, guilty of not being more involved unless it has a direct impact on our own lives., this is true in the local government, and in BIG government. Until something "stirs" us, we make the assumption that the folks elected feel the same way we do.
I do not know who you are , but glad to know you are not intending to sell. You may want to contact Rich about being included on the petition drives in the future, he is the person the neighbors usually count on to make all the contacts.
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wepete
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 06:40 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote: You see, the zoning board and the council have a different set of criteria that they look at and must legally follow when making these decisions. That's why their rulings sometimes differ. That's just wrong.
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wepete
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 07:04 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: Also the Town paid a fair sum of money for a commercial needs assessment several years ago and up to 1500 feet from the corner at major intersections is considered prime commercial land.
Jane Please help me remember. I seem to remember that in the first meeting I attended after my surgery the council (Mike) referenced the CNA when he made the motion to rezone the land west of the nw corner of 150 and strawberry for one of the most intensive commercial zoning districts (I think Bob made the second and also cited the CNA). I was sitting next to a Zoning Board member who reminded me that particular corner was designated in the CNA as proper for LOW impact commercial zoning not high and the CNA was one major reason the ZB voted to deny the requested rezoning. Do I remember that corectly?... Didn't you vote against that rezoning??
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 10:31 pm |
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wepete wrote: Cracker Jax wrote: You see, the zoning board and the council have a different set of criteria that they look at and must legally follow when making these decisions. That's why their rulings sometimes differ. That's just wrong.
So you agree with the petitioners that it is strictly a personal decision? That any zoning board member OR Town council member can just willy nilly make any ruling they desire, be it for personal gain or whatever? That it is not legal for the town council to go against the zoning board? Isn't the zoning board in place to make recommendations to the council?
If they don't look at different aspects why even have a zoning board??
Why not just skip that step?
You know I'll say I'm wrong if I am. Perhaps I didn't word that correctly. Perhaps you could better explain to Happy Camper (and me) why the Town Council CAN, and sometimes DOES rule differently than the zoning board. That's all I was trying to do. Feel free to take a crack at it. 
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: May 5th, 2006 10:32 pm |
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| wepete- I don't remember any development on the corner of 150 and Strawberry being approved for anything. I am trying to think and all I know is that big flat field at on the one corner. the Wincester develpment on the other corner, and houses of some sort on the other two corners. Who was asking to have it developed? I don't remember that intersection being appropriate for commercial in the CNA but I could be wrong. Refresh my memory.
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happycamper
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Posted: May 6th, 2006 02:30 am |
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I am sort of begining to understand a little better as to where we went wrong as a group when we petioned the rezoning for the dentist office. . I do think the adopted Long Term Plan,although not a legal binding document( I don't think) is awful Grey in some areas. For Instance both The Doctor And I could pick a certain part out and make it pertain to us.
for instance...Town Council will take special note that any new zoning requests are in harmony with existing uses and the desire of surrounding property owners. Commercial, industrial, institutional, or retail uses will require natural screening to limit visibility of buildings and provide a buffer from other categories of land use
for instance..Scenic corridors are designated along streets and highways that are major gateways to Summerfield and which provide an important first impression of the Town
and...Pedestrian safety and traffic volume along roadways will be considered in every proposed land use change
The Town Core District strives to preserve and enhance the small-town character of central Summerfield. The diversity of the district is an important consideration in meeting the overall goal. By permitting a mix of low impact office, commercial, and institutional uses, the area( not Lake Brandt Road) will gain recognition as the center of social activities and commerce typical of many small towns.
I made the mistake of only voicing my personal opinions, with the assumption that the council felt the same way I did . We(neighbors and I) thought that all we needed to do was sign up and show up., and leave it to the commission to sort out the details that could make it pass or fail.,and thought that the zoning boards decsion not to recomend played a larger role. The Doctor pulled out specifics that could have easily been used in our arguments as well. So Although it looks like it was all simply a "personal decision" I think that many of the goals in the long term plan could have also been applied. I just ( we just) presented this in the only fashion we new how, I don't have a Lawer in my family to advise me to stick to the specifics and leave the personal issue at home ..
So how do you decide, what documents or parts of documents are more important than others. When the majority of the neighbors are against something, how much does this factor in? When the zoning board fails to give approval, what weight does that carry in the final decision.. And hey, when it comes to the Commercial needs assesment.. What is the difference in a major and a minor node>? Where, in terms of distance does a node fit in. I looked up the definition of a node: the best I could could come up with was a place in space where two or more lines cross, or possibly a tree where the branches start to form., or a collection of tissue in the body.
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: May 6th, 2006 01:01 pm |
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What good questions? I got involved in the Town politics over a rezoning issue not even in my neighborhood because I had very personal feelings about my vision that the property should remain a horse farm because it was so beautiful. It was and is Henson Farms.
What I learned was the Council is charged with maintaining first off the safety of the Town but after that some sort of rational plan that the Town generally agrees on. That is what the Long range plan is and the commercial needs assessment and hopefully some sort of master plan to give guidance to the officials. But North Carolina is a huge property rights state. It is your property and you have the right to develop it as you see fit. So there is this huge balancing act to allow people their property rights but yet the feedom to develop their property as they see fit and maintain a vision for the collective town.
It is not possible or practical to contain all the commercial develpment in the Town core so then the commercial needs assessment looked at where else it made sense to allow the growth. Lake Brandt Road of course was one of the places since it was already growing that way. So the next step was what and how much growth to allow since it was already there where did it need to stop. now I say stop but somebody else might say let the market drive the need. In my opinion the commercial needs assessment gave the council guide lines that protect you also. It prevents your next doorneighbor from deciding to put in a business because they want to or some big box store from buying up the neighborhood.
As I remember Lake Brandt is a minor node which determines what kind of commercial development can go in on the corners. Low density which is what the dentist office will be. No big box stores or high traffic businesses, manufacturing etc will be allowed.
As to our responsibility as citizens of Summerfield, we need to be involved in directing the vision. It is to late if the vision has already been arrived at to have much impact. I am a great believer in the Town having a vision so we know where we are going and the council knows what to do. This hopefully gives some protection to the Town.
Unfortunately development is king in our current culture. Our economy will only survive is we buy more. But on the other hand I would be very unhappy if I had property that I could not sell for top dollar because my neighbors wanted to look at my horse farm. There in lies the dilemma.
Sorry to be so long winded. It is a very very complicated subject trying to to be fair and balancing the scales between the individual and the groupl
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wepete
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Posted: May 7th, 2006 12:54 pm |
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Cracker Jax wrote:
If they don't look at different aspects why even have a zoning board?? Why not just skip that step?
Perhaps you could better explain to Happy Camper (and me) why the Town Council CAN, and sometimes DOES rule differently than the zoning board. That's all I was trying to do. Feel free to take a crack at it.
I sometimes wonder about why we take that step too. But, believe it or not, we have one ordinance and one set of rules for both board and council. They have exactly the same legal requirements for approval or denying. My best guesses why they differ.... sometimes the ZB gets tied up in not-so-pertinent issues. Sometimes the council does. You'd not know from the way they do things it but only in the case of conditional zoning are the plans actually something to consider in a rezoning. When they view the plans in association with a rezoning they are doing so wrongly. (yep Pappy in know wrongly I learnt better in schol ) Many times the applicant changes the plans to compensate for the ZB concerns. In my experience it was frequently number of butts for or against in the chairs. One board is appointed and doesn't care so much, the other is elected and plays to the crowd. Also we tend to train our board members but think an election makes council members inherently smarter. I think the vote should be to uphold the ZB recommendations or not (and why)... I think that would make the dual step process a lot more meaningful
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wepete
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Posted: May 7th, 2006 12:56 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: wepete- I don't remember any development on the corner of 150 and Strawberry being approved for anything My Mistake... 150 and lake Brandt was what I was thinking you know where the vet hospital was planed for a while... sorry
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DOGGETTJA
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Posted: May 7th, 2006 04:13 pm |
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Wepete I voted against the vets office going in behind the gas station but then the fire department hopscotched over several property's and pretty much doomed the properties in between to commercial.
There was also a zoning on 150 just past the brick store that allowed for a higher density development in order to get the cabinet shop in as I remember. I was against that also because if and when the cabinet shop leaves then it would open up the property around for a higher commercial density use. As I remember I thought they should come in as CU and get the cabinet shop in that way. I think the vet office next door is correctly zoned to keep the area a minor node.
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wepete
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Posted: May 7th, 2006 04:49 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: There was also a zoning on 150 just past the brick store that allowed for a higher density development in order to get the cabinet shop in as I remember. I was against that also Yep that was the one I was talking about. It was told to me by a member of the ZB that You voted with the zoning board who had cited the reference that area should stay low impact. I remember being very proud of you doing your homework.... thought you were taking my place (grin) Think my original point was you were the only member that voted the development should go the way the CNA said it should DESPITE the member making the motion to approve cited the CNA as the reason for the motion. (Darn near confuzzed myself Pappy)
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wepete
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Posted: May 7th, 2006 04:52 pm |
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DOGGETTJA wrote: I voted against the vets office going in behind the gas station but then the fire department hopscotched over several property's and pretty much doomed the properties in between to commercial.
that was exactly my point on the mixed use planned for the town core...hmmmmm
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