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rasin
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Posted: Jan 19th, 2007 07:41 pm |
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There was a letter in today’s NWO about the crosswalk at the academy and drivers not stopping.
I agree completely that drivers need to obey the law and watch out for students. I slow down regardless of the time of day when approaching the academy and always stop for students approaching the crosswalk.
As with many things this is a two way street (half hearted pun intended).
Frequently students and instructors (instructors seem to be the worst offenders in my experience) cross at places other than the crosswalk. Also the students typically start walking out into the crosswalk without checking to see if the driver has enough distance to stop or even sees them crossing. While the truck driver in the letter needed to stop, even with the law on his side the student shouldn’t start crossing until he knows it is safe.
Another problem is the students don’t always make it clear that they are ready to cross, you have to guess whether to stop or not.
I have gotten used to this and as mentioned above slow down at all times in anticipation of this.
The big problem is at night, since the students are in uniform frequently which are a dark blue it is hard to see them. Due to the way the lights are it seems hardest to see them when approaching from the east heading towards 68. Combining this with the behavior noted above it can be hard at times to see and stop in time.
Since many of the students may not drive yet they probably don’t understand that just because they can see the car coming with headlights on doesn’t mean that the driver can see them.
One suggestion is there are reflective strips that pretty much look like regular material during the day but at night will reflect light. Maybe they can sew some of this material on their pants and shirt cuffs.
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S. Smith
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2007 02:10 pm |
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rasin, You're right about this being a two-way street (cute pun). I always drive the speed limit through the Academy, but I'll be honest -- until a couple of years ago when we answered this question in our paper, I didn't know the pedestrian had the right of way and it was up to cars to stop. Now I know!
But the students and instructors do have a responsibility here. Just a couple of weeks ago as I was driving through the campus, a student was running through the parking lot parallel to the road. When he got near the crosswalk, he suddenly darted in front of my car, without even looking to see if a car was coming. I nearly hit him because he gave no indication he was going to cross the road. It scared the bejeebers out of me. Thank goodness I was only doing 25 mph!
It is definitely a problem after dark. To add to that, the school zone speed limit (25 mph) is only until 6 p.m., at which time it is 35 mph. Of course, in the wintertime, it's dark by then.
I guess the DOT has done what they're required to do, but if I were the Academy, I'd think about some extra signage, at least on either end and maybe a couple of places in the middle of the campus. It could say something like "You are entering the Oak Ridge Military Academy campus. Please watch out for our students."
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Skiddles
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Posted: Jan 21st, 2007 07:34 pm |
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I'm also concerned for the students safety as similar scenarios have happened to me.
Another suggestion for safety is to establish an "order of crossing" (they may have one in place, I'm not sure)
- Stop completely at the crosswalk
- Look both ways
- Wait until traffic has stopped from either directions, or the road is clear. Pedestrians should give traffic enough time to see them and to come to a complete stop.
- Make contact / A signal of confirmation and thanks to the driver
- Then start to cross
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bama80
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Posted: Jan 23rd, 2007 02:04 pm |
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Oh let me pedestrian-rage for a minute. Many people do not know that pedestrians have the right of way in many places. Crosswalks, especially at universities, etc the pedestrian has the right of way.
Also, at a stoplight, if the pedestrian is crossing the street correctly (white hand saying walk or a green light in that direction) cars turning are required to yield to the pedestrian. Look this up in your kid's driver's Ed handbook or on an official internet site if you do not understand what I am talking about. Too many people get so mad when you are crossing the street rightfully and legally when they have to wait for you to cross. They think that you are obstructing their road and that you are jaywalking or something.
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Stonefree
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Posted: Jan 23rd, 2007 04:16 pm |
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I have to get in on this discussion. This is an issue that has bothered me for sometime.
Okay, first, let's get this out of the way. Drivers should be 100% aware and slow down around any crosswalk or school area, whether the immediately see pedestrians or not.
That said, now we can get to my beef. I have also experienced students, and most disturbingly, instructors simply walk onto the crosswalk without even glancing at my car. I have also noticed some of them look at me from the side of their eye and then immediatly move onto the crosswalk rather quickly. I find this behavior to be both disturbing and dangerous. "Testing" to see if someone will stop is as dangerous to yourself and the motorist as any other scenario. When you do that you are not just playing with your own life, you are endangering the lives of the motorist, anyone in their car and surrounding vehicles and pedestrians. News flash, this is not a fantasy world, it is not enough that you have the right of way, you still have to be smart and use your head. While i know that kids have about 10,000 other things they would rather be thinking of than pedestrian safety, there is not excuse for the instructor violations of this.
I would like to know what specifically ORMA says to its students regarding the crosswalks and what they say to the instructors as well. The answer should be more than just pedestrian rights.
It is disturbing that instructors do this as well, as they are the role models for students and by setting this mark of "walking without looking" they are endangering the lives of students that blindly believe "the instructor is correct".
In truth, during school hours, there should be a cross guard at the facility. With the amount of traffic that 150 gets during the course of a business day, it would scare me if i was parent sending my child there without the school providing some kind of student supervision at the crosswalks.
Stonefree
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Stonefree
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Posted: Jan 23rd, 2007 04:19 pm |
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What is sad skiddles is that this stuff should be Human 101 stuff that these kids, and especially instructors, should already know. Pretty much this should fall just after learning to breath in and out.
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bama80
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Posted: Jan 23rd, 2007 06:25 pm |
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| Kinda like learning how to work a 4 way stop and a traffic circle.
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Skiddles
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Posted: Jan 23rd, 2007 09:58 pm |
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Absolutely, Human 101 (people - vs- cars = no contest for people) plus motorist are to ALWAYS yield to pedestrians… Yep, we all know this. I am agreeing with everything that has been said, but as stated, this is not a perfect world. Some students and instructors do cross the road with a hope and a pray. This is why I drive very slow & carefully through this area as motorists are directed to do so for the safety of the students, instructors, motorists & etc.
What I am hearing is a two fold problem or the "two way street." For the motorist, yes, a set of laws are clearly written in the DMV’s handbook and taught in Driver’s Ed, but do all people follow the law? No way. This is problem #1, the motorist. The suggestions of a crossing guard at specific times along with additional signage would help the situation. Problem #2 - the Human factor, which is what I was addressing. Yes, it is correct that kids will be kids (I know, I have 3). But should they engage in horse play, get distracted or jokingly push and play around the roadside or at a crosswalk? No way. I see no problem in ORMA establishing a set of rules for crossing… now, I know your mother or father did teach you this a long time ago, but if some of the students and facility are not using good judgment while crossing the road, then Human 101 needs to be revisited and guidelines given. Giving the students guiding principles to keep them safe in no way discounts the motorist’s responsibility, it just adds to the solution.
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Skiddles
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Posted: Jan 23rd, 2007 10:03 pm |
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bama80 wrote: Kinda like learning how to work a 4 way stop and a traffic circle.
I love 4 way stops and traffic circles.. but I agree, so many don't know what to do when they get to them!!
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Steve Adkins
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Posted: Jan 25th, 2007 01:26 am |
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bama80 wrote: Oh let me pedestrian-rage for a minute. Many people do not know that pedestrians have the right of way in many places. Crosswalks, especially at universities, etc the pedestrian has the right of way.
We are fortunate to have these laws in the USA. Unfortunately they're marginally respected by many as the above discussion indicates.
there are many countries in the world where this is not the case, where pedestrians are on their own. Primarily 3rd world countries. I've personally had many scares from drivers asserting themselves. We're fortunate to have the law on the side of the pedestrian...........now if the pedestrian would just use some common sense !!
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Stonefree
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Posted: Jan 25th, 2007 02:37 am |
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WOW!
I almost forgot the other HUGE part of my beef.
ORMA's deathtrap athletic uniforms. Great combo, blue/black without any reflective material in a darkened campus at night.....good choice (thumbs up!). Why not issue them ninja warrior suits and have drop onto 150 from the treetops?!
I have experienced countless upon countless times of not seeing students, even when i squint at night and have heard from several others of similar experiences. With the number of DUI arrests on 150 (Oak Ridge Rd.) you would think they would take this stuff into consideration.
Whoever the genius was that came up with their sweat outfits should be nominated for the "Get a Clue" award.
Let me break them down:
1. Color, black or dark blue. Small white emblem, absolutely no refective material of any kind on them. In case the school doesn't understand this...at night, it is dark...so dark clothing is not recommended for students crossing a road by every fricken safety group on planet Earth. And i would have to guess any planet that has a night and day would have similar safety concerns.
2. They have the students out at night, and remember, in the winter, night begins as early as 5:30-6pm. I have had several moments of not seeing a student until they happen to pass by a light source while they are running or jogging in a line.
What is going on with this, has anyone else experienced this or am i taking crazy pills.
Stonefree
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Cracker Jax
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Posted: Jan 25th, 2007 12:38 pm |
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Stonefree wrote: Why not issue them ninja warrior suits and have drop onto 150 from the treetops?!
Thanks for the morning chuckle Stonefree!!! 
I agree with you. They should do all they can to make the students/staff more visible to drivers.
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macca
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Posted: Jan 25th, 2007 12:56 pm |
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| Yeah! Having the legal right of way doesn't mean a heck of a lot when you're lying smushed on the road....
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kidwell
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Posted: Jan 25th, 2007 09:12 pm |
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| I love it Stonefree..Ninja's!! anyways there needs to be a much brigher dusk to dawn light there at the crosswalk because the one there lights nothing!!Won't help the fast drivers or darting kids but for the rest that try and watch it would be a lot easier since I doubt they will change any uniforms!
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rasin
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Posted: Jan 26th, 2007 01:44 pm |
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I think the problem with the lights isn't enough light, it is more that the lights are in the wrong place. With better placement might even be able to eliminate some of the lights and get better coverage and visibility.
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